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Posted: 5/24/2005 5:20:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 5:21:03 PM EDT by rcoers]
Alright this is for all your Monday morning quarterback LEOs, do you think this was justified:

ANGOLA, Ind. -- A state police trooper being dragged by his arm from a pickup truck window shot the driver in the head Tuesday, officials said.

The driver's name and condition were not immediately known, but police said he was flown to Parkview Hospital in Fort Wayne.

Trooper Andy Smith was not seriously injured, police said.

The shooting occurred about 12:30 p.m. at a rural intersection in Steuben County about 40 miles north of Fort Wayne. Smith pulled over two vehicles after he saw them traveling more than 90 mph hour as they passed cars, police said.

One driver turned off his vehicle, but the driver of the pickup truck wrestled with Smith when he reached into the truck to turn it off. The driver then hit the gas and drove off, dragging the trooper by the arm, police said.

Smith then fired several shots at the driver, striking him once behind the head, said Sgt. Rodger Popplewell, a spokesman for state police. The driver kept going for a short time until he crashed into a barn, police said.

"Evidently the officer was placed in jeopardy of his life, and he drew his service pistol and fired on the suspect," Popplewell said.

Smith was placed on administrative leave pending an investigation, police said.

ARTICLE LINK
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:23:38 PM EDT
Well hell yes it was justified!


That being said, never reach into a vehicle on a traffic stop.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:24:08 PM EDT
How far was the LEO drug?
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:25:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 5:25:53 PM EDT by VTwin60]
Boo! BOO!! HISS HISS Police brutality! He should've only fired if he was being dragged BEHIND the pickup truck by a chain for a minimum of one mile........
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:26:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 5:27:47 PM EDT by Tromatic]

One driver turned off his vehicle, but the driver of the pickup truck wrestled with Smith when he reached into the truck to turn it off.


That was a mistake by the cop, imho. However, driving off with the cop attached to the car was not a good idea, either. It's real easy to NOT get shot by cop.
Matthew
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:27:04 PM EDT
I wonder why he reached through the window to turn off the truck? Sounds like a risk he shoudn't have taken to me.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:27:09 PM EDT
If I could have got my gun out, I would have shot him. No, doubt.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:28:03 PM EDT
From the description given so far, sounds like a good shoot to me... I'm glad the officer wasn't seriously injured - he likely could've been....



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:28:53 PM EDT
Damnit...


Should have fired a few more times... just to be sure.

"Unknown condition?" I hope he's pushin up daisies or drooling for the rest of his life.

Good shoot.


- BG


(I'm, of course, not an LEO. But I'd like to get in my 2 cents before the cop-bashers put down their Ovaltine and chime in.)
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:29:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 5:40:24 PM EDT by Bama-Shooter]

Originally Posted By MikeTx:
I wonder why he reached through the window to turn off the truck? Sounds like a risk he shoudn't have taken to me.



You are right. But it does happen in the moment. BTDT. Never did it again.
But it still does not mean you get to take off with a cop attached to your vehicle.

ETA: In his own mind he did to prevent a chase.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:30:55 PM EDT
Never, ever, ever!!!! reach into a running vehicle!!!!!! That said, stupid thugs die. Tough toodles.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:32:09 PM EDT
Yeah it was justified i whould have done the same thing
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:38:12 PM EDT
Bad on the cop for reaching into the car...

worse on the perp for thinking he could drag him.

Good shoot, if there is such a thing.


[smartass] Of course, if he was LAPD, he'd probably get a naughtygram in his jacket for firing at a moving vehicle [/smartass]
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:38:34 PM EDT
I would have shot the crap out of him. We had a local officer lose an arm that way a couple of years ago. The only bad thing is that the trooper apparently didn't get a chance to humiliate and berate the jackass before he died.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:40:27 PM EDT
Good shoot, stupid perp.
Draggins a LEO down the road is a mistake he wont make again.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:42:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:42:08 PM EDT
Good shoot? No, GREAT shoot. I'd have crapped my pants and died. The officer got his gun and too k out the bad guy. Good for him!

Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:42:56 PM EDT
Hell yes, good shoot!
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:43:03 PM EDT
I am one of those people that calls it like I see it. If I think the cop was wrong...you can bet your *ss I would be saying it. That said, that was a good shoot as far as I'm concerned. I know *I* would be in fear for my life if I was being dragged along by a car, and I would have shot his ass too. And believe me, I have issues when it comes to the police and use of force. But fair is fair...

I AM HARD...BUT I AM FAIR!
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:44:59 PM EDT
Reaching in? bad idea
Trying to drive off with a policeman hanging on to your car? worse idea

sounds like a good shoot.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:45:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Good shoot? No, GREAT shoot. I'd have crapped my pants and died. The officer got his gun and too k out the bad guy. Good for him!




Sorry, no such thing. It's never a great thing for anyone to use deadly force.

Based on the facts presented: Good Shoot
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:46:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
I'd have reloaded at least once



That's what I'm talking about!

Of course he could have been trying to shoot the dog in the bed of the truck!

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:47:51 PM EDT
I see no problem here, another POS criminal takes a dirt nap.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:48:16 PM EDT
Good Shoot.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:56:11 PM EDT
Good on him. A good friend in our department wound up doing this several years ago, and his arm became entangled in the seat belt, and he was dragged. After shooting the female driver, he was cleared, she lived. Ask him today what he learned? "Don't reach into the fucking car for ANYTHING!"
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:56:43 PM EDT
Good shoot. They were both dumbasses, but the dumbass with the gun won.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 5:59:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Good shoot? No, GREAT shoot. I'd have crapped my pants and died. The officer got his gun and too k out the bad guy. Good for him!




Sorry, no such thing. It's never a great thing for anyone to use deadly force.

Based on the facts presented: Good Shoot



Point taken - it's sad to have to shoot people for criminal stupidity....
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 6:18:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2005 6:22:56 PM EDT by NotMrWizard]
I know who the trooper is, and I've always known him to be a pretty good guy, FWIW. From what I read, sounds like he had cause to do it.

Like someone said, it's really easy to NOT get shot by the police.

ETA: News story said the guy took bullet fragments to the head and is in surgery, but not life-threatening.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 7:21:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NotMrWizard:

ETA: News story said the guy took bullet fragments to the head and is in surgery, but not life-threatening.



Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:02:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Good shoot? No, GREAT shoot. I'd have crapped my pants and died. The officer got his gun and too k out the bad guy. Good for him!




Sorry, no such thing. It's never a great thing for anyone to use deadly force.


I can think of a TON of people, both foreign and domestic, where society would be greatly benefited from the use of deadly force.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:16:27 PM EDT
We just had a Los Angeles International Airport policeman killed after a homeless guy drove off with the officer's vehicle (not sure how that happened) and dragged the officer into a firehydrant.

Knowing what could happen, i'm sure the officer was justified in this case.

Eric
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:17:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LPDtactical:
Well hell yes it was justified!



Yup.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:21:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Good shoot? No, GREAT shoot. I'd have crapped my pants and died. The officer got his gun and too k out the bad guy. Good for him!




Sorry, no such thing. It's never a great thing for anyone to use deadly force.


I can think of a TON of people, both foreign and domestic, where society would be greatly benefited from the use of deadly force.



+1. It can suck for the shooter, but society as a whole can benefit greatly.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:26:11 PM EDT
Same thing happened in San Antonio last week. A perv was stroking his johnson in a mall parking lot. Security guard who happens to be an off duty LEO tries to arrest the guy. Officer gets the door open when perp hits the gas and closing the door, trapping the officer's left hand.

Officer gets off two shots, one hitting the perv perp in the head. Dead on arrival.

Other shot hits the officer's left hand. But since he was being dragged, its not bad shooting to get 50% of your shots ON TARGET.

Officer is recovering. Perv perp is buried.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:42:20 PM EDT
Similar situation happened in Pittsburgh in 1996. Officer approached a car late at night after it sat through several light cycles at an intersection. Officer approached from the rear with flashlight shining on the inside of the car.

One of the guys in the back opened up his door and somehow the officer's hand was caught in the door. I think it was his wedding ring that was caught and the car took off dragging the officer. He fired into the car until it stopped. The officer was severely injured and I think two of the three perps were DOA.

There was a HUGE deal made out of this because the officer was white and the perps black. While to me it seemed like an obvious good shoot the local NAACP did not seem to think it was. I don't know what happened to the officer or the surviving perp.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:46:07 PM EDT
Good job. Too bad it seems it was bullet frag that got him, not a full on headshot. That perp should have had his head aired out.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 9:52:13 PM EDT
THREE WORDS:
YES YES and YES
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 10:05:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MikeTx:
I wonder why he reached through the window to turn off the truck? Sounds like a risk he shoudn't have taken to me.

+1
Good shoot, but in a circumstance the Officer helped create
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 11:55:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Similar situation happened in Pittsburgh in 1996. Officer approached a car late at night after it sat through several light cycles at an intersection. Officer approached from the rear with flashlight shining on the inside of the car.

One of the guys in the back opened up his door and somehow the officer's hand was caught in the door. I think it was his wedding ring that was caught and the car took off dragging the officer. He fired into the car until it stopped. The officer was severely injured and I think two of the three perps were DOA.

There was a HUGE deal made out of this because the officer was white and the perps black. While to me it seemed like an obvious good shoot the local NAACP did not seem to think it was. I don't know what happened to the officer or the surviving perp.



A video was done on this. If I'm not mistaken, the driver was hiti n the head after the bullet passed through the headrest. The bullte entered the driver's skull, slide across it, then come to rest just under the skin of his forehead.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 3:21:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fizassist:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Good shoot? No, GREAT shoot. I'd have crapped my pants and died. The officer got his gun and too k out the bad guy. Good for him!




Sorry, no such thing. It's never a great thing for anyone to use deadly force.


I can think of a TON of people, both foreign and domestic, where society would be greatly benefited from the use of deadly force.



+1. It can suck for the shooter, but society as a whole can benefit greatly.




I suppose I should have qualified my statement to specify in a domestic law enforcement situation. And I didn't think we were analyzing this shoot from the perspective of society as a whole, rather, playing armchair quarterback.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 3:28:52 AM EDT
The an_leo did just fine!
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 3:29:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 3:32:48 AM EDT by jmoffatt]
Hell yes, good shoot.


<--------ETA: in honor of my post count
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 3:32:01 AM EDT
Yes.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 3:34:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Alright this is for all your Monday morning quarterback LEOs, do you think this was justified:



my only question is how could anyone think this was NOT justified.

Link Posted: 5/25/2005 4:02:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/25/2005 4:03:12 AM EDT by Gator]

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Good on him. A good friend in our department wound up doing this several years ago, and his arm became entangled in the seat belt, and he was dragged. After shooting the female driver, he was cleared, she lived. Ask him today what he learned? "Don't reach into the fucking car for ANYTHING!"



+1

Monday morning quarterback's guess is reaching into a running car is like playing russian roulette for a darwin award. He got lucky and it was a good shoot.

Did his buddies in the department buy him new underwear?
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 4:22:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Alright this is for all your Monday morning quarterback LEOs, do you think this was justified:



my only question is how could anyone think this was NOT justified.




I've seen a lot of LEO bashing lately here on AR15 and was curious what everyone thought of this incident.
Link Posted: 5/25/2005 5:11:55 AM EDT
Good shoot, I hope the LEO is alright.
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