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Posted: 12/9/2001 7:00:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 6:01:54 AM EDT by Greencon]
Check the link: [url]http://www.record-eagle.com/2001/dec/05poach.htm[/url] Here's another link that I just found:[url]http://www.freep.com/sports/outdoors/poach29_20011129.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:13:56 PM EDT
What a loser! Poaching Multiple violations of Fish and Game laws. Habitual offender for drug convictions. Felon in possession of a firearm. Possession of a silencer. Lock him up and throw away the key.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:17:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:18:42 PM EDT
Jesus. The only thing I find at all objectionable about him is that he got caught. What was he poaching? Deer? Who the hell cares? Let's see--drug convictions. Hmm. Refer to the many different discussions about the War on Some Drugs and how ridiculous and hypocritical it is. Fish and Game Laws. Don't even get me started. Are they state or federal laws? Felon in posession of a firearm. Oh, right, like he was robbing someone at gunpoint or causing mayhem. He was out [b]hunting[/b] Posession of a silencer--Shouldn't even be illegal. Think of how many more gun ranges there would be if noise were not such a big issue. A muffler for a car is legal and expected, but a muffler for a gun is evil.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:25:43 PM EDT
Is it just me, or does it sound like Trickshot is going to be the next one to be arrested?
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:34:23 PM EDT
Trickshot, yeah it would be great if this was a completely free country, but it ain't. There are rules, whether you follow 'em or not is up to you. He's a POS and belongs in jail.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:41:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jboze: Is it just me, or does it sound like Trickshot is going to be the next one to be arrested?
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Well it SOUNDS like it, but appearances can be deceiving. Maybe he just wants to sound bad.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 7:54:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2001 7:48:12 PM EDT by USMC_LB]
trickshot, Have you ever had a run-in with any poachers? I would guess not.... I have a couple of times. In both instances if I had not been there or my friends not been there we would prolly have been shot and left for dead. Once me and 2 friends were heading out to the our stands after coming in for breakfast. We would walk together to a certain point then break off and head toward our individual stands. My 2 friends were hunting together for the afternoon ( 1 in treestand and the other close by in ground blind ). I had broke off and headed toward my stand when I heard some talking. My friends and I do our best to use hand signals and such in the woods so I was curious and I eased around through the woods to get a better vantage point. My two friends had walked up on 2 hunters and 13 year old that had just gutted a "button" buck. illegal They ( 1 hunter and 13 yr. old. )had raised their weapons at the hip and were asking my friends why they were trespassing. My friends and I know those woods too well and knew for sure where the boundaries are of the private land we were hunting on. I was able to slip in close without them detecting me until it was too late. Once they knew they were covered they became a little more friendly, placed the deer and weapons in their truck and drove off down the logging road. It would not have been such a big deal but while I was snoopin' & poopin' to get closer I watched the 2nd hunter slowly slide his shotgun off the truck seat and out of the truck while the other hunter was talking to my friends. From the way the men acted and such, my friends have always said that if we hadn't been there together it most likely would have turned out different. So as far as I concerned f*#k the poachers ! Most will shoot ya if they think they can get away with it.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:04:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Jesus. The only thing I find at all objectionable about him is that he got caught. What was he poaching? Deer? Who the hell cares? Let's see--drug convictions. Hmm. Refer to the many different discussions about the War on Some Drugs and how ridiculous and hypocritical it is. Fish and Game Laws. Don't even get me started. Are they state or federal laws? Felon in posession of a firearm. Oh, right, like he was robbing someone at gunpoint or causing mayhem. He was out [b]hunting[/b] Posession of a silencer--Shouldn't even be illegal. Think of how many more gun ranges there would be if noise were not such a big issue. A muffler for a car is legal and expected, but a muffler for a gun is evil.
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Poaching is bad. Baiting is illegal in this guys area. Mine too. He's been caught poaching before. He refuses to learn. He suffers the consequences. Makes no difference if they're State or Federal laws. Until they are changed, legally, they are the law. Don't like it? Don't get caught. As to the felon in possession of a firearm, it's illegal. Period. It's a right that you lose when you get caught. Tough shit. Don't like it? Don't get caught. You can still hunt, I think, just no guns. Possession of a silencer by bad people is bad. The muffler on your car as a comparison is ridiculous. Yes, it would be great to use silencers at the range. But if you can't see the potential for abuse of a silencer, well... Because there are bad people, the powers that be make rules that I, and maybe you too, follow.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:10:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USMC_LB: Most will shoot ya if they think they can get away with it.
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Lay off the late night movies would ya.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:25:41 PM EDT
Say what ya will, but from my experiences and from the older hunters where I hunt it is the norm... You can ALWAYS find the game warden ANYtime of the day. He is always at the local diner. He doesnt go into the woods anymore. Believe me I am the most skeptical person when it comes to stories and such. Like two guys from MS telling me about harvesting whitetails using .22 rimfire ammo. I told 'em that was most likely illegal because that is a rimfire carteidge and that the law prolly states .22 "centerfire". They said it didnt matter. So to prove them wrong I spoke with the local gamewarden on the phone about legal cartridges for whitetail. I asked him clearly, "Is it legal to hunt deer with a .22 rimfire ?" He said, "It sure is !" I do not care if it was legal or not. To me it is not a powerful enough round to reliably drop deer on a consistent basis. Believe what ya but I would not pi$$ on a poacher if he was on fire...
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:34:47 PM EDT
Hell if he was baiting the deer why didn't he just use a bow. Quite and he would only of had the poaching charge and not the other more severe ones.
Link Posted: 12/9/2001 8:39:47 PM EDT
Umm, guys, silencers are widely used in Europe by hunters. Their evil stigma is artificial. I would be happy to mount a silencer on my hunting rifles and pistols, since it would tend to save my hearing, and keep the noise down in the countryside. Poachers? They are a known menace in Sequoia National Forest, where I hunt.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 2:54:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 2:48:01 AM EDT by Ulysse_Nardin_1846]
Originally Posted By Ulysse_Nardin_1846: There was a show on Discovery about some poacher named Claude Dallas who killed two Fish and Game officers. Finished them off with a shot behind the ear. Self defense huh?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 3:23:41 AM EDT
Having done a little of what was technically poaching, I can tell you that not all of them will shoot ya for your boots. Hell man, I was just a farm kid shooting ‘yotes for the bounty. (TX used to pay big$$ for coyote ears) - I should also mention that this was almost twenty years ago On the flip side of that is "professional poachers". These dudes will shoot ANYTHING worth a few bux and if you happen to catch them in the act, it could well and truly be your ass. The guy in the story looks to be some drugged out moron with the morals of a cat. If that’s what you wanna call freedom, you can keep it.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 3:47:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MOLITAS: Hell if he was baiting the deer why didn't he just use a bow. Quite and he would only of had the poaching charge and not the other more severe ones.
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We are allowed to bait deer here in NC, with food, and or salt. Mostly, it just makes the squirrels and quail happy :)
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:17:53 AM EDT
I think trickshot is on to something, you should be able to hunt using any weapon you want anytime anywhere. I mean really who is the State (other than the the will of the people) to tell anyone how or when to hunt, it's not like those deer are the State's. Hey wait a second who's deer are those? I don't think the deer are the hunters either, who is this guy to go around wantonly destroying property that doesn't belong to him? I've got an idea why don't we the people request the State, as an extension of the "people", to formulate rules and regulations to manage the deer herd so that it doesn't become over abundant or too few. Every year the could issue things, deer killing tags maybe?, so that people as individuals could harvest those deer. Oh yeah wait that won't work this guy won't abide by those silly hunting rules, tag requirements, anyway. What kind of an idiot poaches during hunting season? How do you manage that? It would be like speeding during a race. I noticed someone said "in Eurpoe......." well if we were in Europe we would be that much closer to the French. I think being able to have silencers isn't worth THAT sacrifice. I should point out that it may be easier to own a silencer in Europe but many European countries are real uptight when it comes to allowing citizens to own guns. I would rather have a gun than the possibility of having a silencer if I can somehow prove to the government that I'm "worthy" of owning a gun.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:28:11 AM EDT
Folks, let's not make the same mistake the antis make here. Silencers are not evil objects. They've been demonized by our media, but in other places they are quite common. Our friend Tuukka, for example, probably sells them over-the-counter in his shop. Possession of a silencer does not imply intent to commit a crime...70,000 legal silencer owners would take issue with you on that! We are the smallest segment of the Class III community...but we are just as law-abiding, if not more so, than regular gun-owners. QS
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:35:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:35:45 AM EDT
I have nothing against silencers, I don't know that having or not having them would do anything about the level of criminal activity. However in this case, Mr troublemaker has in the past been convicted of felonies, I'm sure while he was commiting those felonious acts he knew what he was doing was a crime, he chose to act in a criminal manner anyway. He was then convicted in Court, not once but at least twice of feloniuos acts. He then decided that hunting and firearm laws didn't apply to him, ie hunting license, deer tag, hours allowed to hunt, manner allowed to hunt, felon in possesion of a firearm, possesion of a silencer. I would almost wonder about other "violations" they detected, I would bet money that his driver's license is suspneded or revoked and he drove to his crime scens....... It's not about silencers. It's about this guys decision to act in the manner that he did.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:49:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: ...70,000 legal silencer owners would take issue with you on that! We are the smallest segment of the Class III community...but we are just as law-abiding, if not more so, than regular gun-owners. QS
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70,000? That is it? It seems like suppressors are a lot more common than that. I figured there would be more suppressors out there in circulation than machineguns.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 4:58:26 AM EDT
Oddly enough, it appears that there are a lot more MGs than suppressors. I don't know the reasons for that, considering you can still buy new suppressors. It may be that a lot of suppressor owners own more than one. In my experience, they are kinda like Lay's potato chips...you can't eat just one. QS
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:44:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 12:44:09 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
This took place not too far from here. The baiting ban is in affect to limit the spread of bovine TB that's been detected here. As I compete with these people for the same deer, and I can understand that certain limitations are necessary to maintain a strong healthy herd, I feel that yes, he broke the law. Should the use of a silencer add to his pain. Well anyone that is that stupid to risk Federal prosecution for a frikking deer just can't be too bright and you know what they say...no brain, no pain.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 5:46:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked: Should the use of a silencer add to their pain. Well anyone that is that stupid to risk Federal prosecution for a frikking deer just can't be too bright and you know what they say...no brain, no pain.
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That's a no-shitter. In extremis, gotta eat, that's one thing. Being a dumb-ass...that's another. QS
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 6:47:14 AM EDT
The word 'poacher' is about as descriptive as the word 'man'. In Illinois shooting deer with a firearm is only allowed 7 days a year, and then only with a shotgun or muzzleloader. Even posessing a rifle in a field can earn you an arrest. Using Grampa's 30-06 once a year in your front yard might make you a poacher in the eyes of the law, but not some worthless piece of trash, dangerous to all society, thief of the people, motherless bastard.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 6:57:51 AM EDT
silencers were added to the nfa of 1934 due to poaching. during the great depression many folks fed their families by "poaching" with silencer equipped firearms. game wardens were a force pushing to get sound suppressors controlled by law.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:06:54 AM EDT
I am glad to see that several people came to the defence of silencers here. As stated before, in many parts of the world silencers are actually encouraged. It is a shame that they have such a bad reputation as even my own father told me yesterday a breakfast that he thought silencers were illegal..... And he said that on the way to shoot my M-16! As for hunting with a silencer, I am pretty sure it is legal here in PA and I welcome anybody to correct me! I would love to get a 223 Bolt Rifle and have it threaded for a can for hunting varmints closser to housing developments where sometimes a farmer will politely ask you not to hunt there anymore at the request of neighbors! As for poachers.... I don't see this as hunting. I hunt by the rules and I don't have much pitty on those that can't do the same.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 7:22:16 AM EDT
I never said I wanted their(European) political systems. I only mention that it is a proven fact silencers work well for hunting, as mentioned by Tukkaa(did I spell that right?) and other folks. I like European firearms technology, and make no apology for it. I simply have no use for their politics. We need a legalized, "easy availability" for silencers here. I want to walk into a hardware store, and buy them for $20. Why should I have to use hearing protection when I'm hunting with centerfire rifles and pistols? It was the government and the liberals who decided we couldn't be trusted with various firearm technologies. And if silencers are so damned evil, how is it that simply paying a huge tax to own one makes it OK?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:14:35 AM EDT
We must be careful about how we complain about that HUGE $200 tax!!! back in the 40's when the NFA laws went into place $200 was allot of money but frankly that isn't the case today! I just hope to buy my silencer before they make it a $500 or $1000 tax stamp!
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:41:16 AM EDT
I agree with trickshot I know of many people in this part of the country who feed their families with wild game. This requires a certain amount of "poaching". I for one do not consider this poaching. In fact, I finished grad school during the last recession...it took a long time to find a job. My wife was working for just above minimum wage and we had our first child on the way (great timing huh). A friend of mine was in an even more dire situation. Had two moose not been shot in late fall..we would have been in real trouble that winter. So I ask the question...is it because of the legal or the moral aspect of poaching that people are objecting? Fis_Prod
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:47:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 10:40:36 AM EDT by Major-Murphy]
I'm glad he got busted, because he's an idiot. Idiots do stupid things. They accidentally shoot innocents. Picture this idiot high on goofballs, then. He's an idiot. The whole point of poaching with a "silencer", is that you don't get caught.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:50:29 AM EDT
I personally think the any laws against using a suppressor while hunting are stupid. As long as you only take the same amount of game that you have tags for then what the hell difference does it make if you used a suppressor in taking them? A dead deer is a dead deer no matter how much of the incomming fire it heard or didn't hear. Maybe I'll take a suppressed machinegun out boar hunting sometime this year[sniper]
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 10:50:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MOLITAS: Hell if he was baiting the deer why didn't he just use a bow. Quite and he would only of had the poaching charge and not the other more severe ones.
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I would think poachers are both f*cking stupid and lazy. It's alot more work bow hunting than with a rifle.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:03:53 AM EDT
Some of you are not being fair. The word "poacher" immediately brings to mind someone shooting the last example of an endangered species. Yes, there are poachers who are despicable. But this guy was shooting a [b]deer[/b]. There are so many deer in this country, and hunting season is so damn short, that his individual actions don't make much of an impact. Do I support wholesale law breaking? Hell, no. But do I think the guy was setup by a bunch of game wardens trying to make a name for themselves or make it look like they are doing good work in order to justify their existence? Hell yes! The silencer part is a moot point. It was placed there solely to make the guy look like like a worse criminal. The NFA makes utterly no sense, never did, never will.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:16:13 AM EDT
"poacher" ....hmmmmmmmm How about: "high-as-a-kite, stupid, poacher"
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:16:56 AM EDT
What this individual is being charged with are indeed crimes - violations of written law made by bureaucrats somewhere . He may be an idiot, moron, loser, etc......but for the most part these are political crimes. By the law, you are a poacher if you break a fish & game law to put food on the table. I know of people who have had to break "the King's Law" to put meat on the table to feed their children. Some here might think it more noble to get food stamps then live off the land. Native Americans frequently kill more then the "law" states - but they wisely use the meat. I have no respect for a "poacher" who kills off endangered species, wastes meat, etc.. Some here would defend un-Constitutional law while others righfully question it. Silencers should be readily available, as they are in many countries, and people should be able to hunt without great restrictions like we have now. As I have said before, this guy may be an idiot - however his actions would not have been QUESTIONED a hundred years ago when America was actually free.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:22:30 AM EDT
The guy didn't do it for hunger, or any other "noble" reasons. [b]"...the men take the deer and sell them in meat markets downstate. "[/b] He's a plain old dirtbag, theif. Nothing special.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:50:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2001 12:42:20 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
Beat me to it Major. Nobody in their right mind would gripe about some destitute man trying to feed his family (although if he's that bad off they would probably be collecting welfare as well). If he had just been using the silencer I wouldn't have even replied except to say something about how all our rights are controlled by the big bad government. But this guy was stealing game from honorable hunters and by baiting the way he did, threatening to perpetuate a TB epidemic here in Michigan, AND he was a fucking idiot for using something that he new would get his ass in a major world of hurt (no offense meant Major).
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 11:54:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Originally Posted By MOLITAS: Hell if he was baiting the deer why didn't he just use a bow. Quite and he would only of had the poaching charge and not the other more severe ones.
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[b]I would think poachers are both f*cking stupid and lazy. It's alot more work bow hunting than with a rifle.
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[/b] The point of my comment which appears to have been lost is that a bow would have allowed him to avoid the firearms charge,the silencer charge and since he was using bait the deer would be in a set location to which he could take an advantageous position to afford a relatively close and easy shot with a bow while still remaining quite and killing the deer effectively,that's all.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 12:00:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MOLITAS:
Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Originally Posted By MOLITAS: Hell if he was baiting the deer why didn't he just use a bow. Quite and he would only of had the poaching charge and not the other more severe ones.
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[b]I would think poachers are both f*cking stupid and lazy. It's alot more work bow hunting than with a rifle.
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[/b] The point of my comment which appears to have been lost is that a bow would have allowed him to avoid the firearms charge,the silencer charge and since he was using bait the deer would be in a set location to which he could take an advantageous position to afford a relatively close and easy shot with a bow while still remaining quite and killing the deer effectively,that's all.
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Well yes you have a point, but I think he was saying he would do what he wanted in the manner he wanted no matter what. It was deer season, he didn't have a tag and he was outside hours, if I read the article right. He just doesn't care. He is the kind of guy that laws are passed because of. Laws are the States attempt to legislate decency, and common sense. Yes, I know they often fail miserably, but this guy apparently had his "moral compass" torn off during a typhoon..........
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:04:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Quarterbore: As for hunting with a silencer, I am pretty sure it is legal here in PA and I welcome anybody to correct me! I would love to get a 223 Bolt Rifle and have it threaded for a can for hunting varmints closser to housing developments where sometimes a farmer will politely ask you not to hunt there anymore at the request of neighbors!
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Per the PGC, suppressors are illegal for any hunting in Pa. Very unfortunate. That sure would widen up varmint hunting opportunities here.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:07:23 PM EDT
I dunno how fish and game laws are where you guys are, but Calif. is different. It was made very clear to us in Hunter Safety that the F&G laws have harsher penalties than *drug* laws. The game warden can descend on you and confiscate your hunting dog, hunting rifle, hunting vehicle, and You, too. If it frightens you to be caught by the police with a bag of cocaine, it is worse to be caught by the warden breaking the game laws. I no longer remember how I know this, but here in Sequoia Natl. Forest, the fukken poachers actually stalk the fluorescent orange hunters, with an aim to robbing them at gunpoint. Personally, if the poacher were "honest" and well behaved, I would mind my own business as he fed his starving family. In view of the seriousness of breaking the F&G laws, it would be more frightening to surprise a poacher than it would a drug dealer. ------------ Because dead hunters tell no tales.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:10:57 PM EDT
He is the kind of guy that GUN-laws are passed because of. GUN-Laws are the States attempt to legislate decency, and common sense. Yes, I know they often fail miserably, but this guy apparently had his "moral compass" torn off during a typhoon.......... Do you know any laws that were passed and lawbreakers won't break them?
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:11:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Jesus. The only thing I find at all objectionable about him is that he got caught. What was he poaching? Deer? Who the hell cares? Let's see--drug convictions. Hmm. Refer to the many different discussions about the War on Some Drugs and how ridiculous and hypocritical it is. Fish and Game Laws. Don't even get me started. Are they state or federal laws? Felon in posession of a firearm. Oh, right, like he was robbing someone at gunpoint or causing mayhem. He was out [b]hunting[/b] Posession of a silencer--Shouldn't even be illegal. Think of how many more gun ranges there would be if noise were not such a big issue. A muffler for a car is legal and expected, but a muffler for a gun is evil.
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Could you please continue. I would like to see how you flush the rest of the laws of the land down the toilet. BTW, if guns and cars are so similar, maybe we should register all guns too...oh wait...[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:16:51 PM EDT
I think silencers would be great for hunting and even regular range shooting. Most people's major complaint is the "noise" of shooting. This would limit it greatly. When my wife and I were first married we lived in some apartments not far from the local outdoor shooting range. I used to sit out on the balcony, basking in the sun, and just listen to the "noise". It was music to my ears.....
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:26:03 PM EDT
Here ya go, flush this.... A recently passed anticrime law requires criminals to give their victims 24 hours notice, either orally or in writing, and to explain the nature of the crime to be committed. Still on the books in texas....maybe some of the others are just as stupid.
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:27:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:33:03 PM EDT
Say waht you all will but this makes me -ing MAD!!!. It's poachers with guns that screwed it up for the rest of us in my state. Cheer for another law that does nothing.... How about this? poaching=jail time no messing around with the method or the means. Do you really think that the politicians cared about bambi when they banned silencers? Only one animal on earth that knows enough to be afraid of silencers---policritters......
Link Posted: 12/10/2001 1:35:36 PM EDT
here's another law with no purpose...can you tell me how many children were harmed with one of these, and who here has been threatened with one and had to seek conseling(other than imbroglio)? It's illegal to possess realistic dildos.
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 4:10:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Grundsau:
Originally Posted By Quarterbore: As for hunting with a silencer, I am pretty sure it is legal here in PA and I welcome anybody to correct me! I would love to get a 223 Bolt Rifle and have it threaded for a can for hunting varmints closser to housing developments where sometimes a farmer will politely ask you not to hunt there anymore at the request of neighbors!
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Per the PGC, suppressors are illegal for any hunting in Pa. Very unfortunate. That sure would widen up varmint hunting opportunities here.
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Thanks for the correction as I never looked that up in the regs! It is too bad as I thought this would be a great addition for my varminting.... Oh well?
Link Posted: 12/11/2001 9:42:59 AM EDT
Very unfortunate. I had talked to a WCO from the SE Office awhile back about it. He says, they're illegal to own anyways. Your wrong I told him, before I could finish he corrects himself by saying you need to have a license. They have such an evil stigma to some people. That's the mindset you deal with, just like "assault weapons". If states like Pa. would legalize semi's for hunting, it may do more to legitimize the weapons in non-owners eyes. No one likes change.
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