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Posted: 8/21/2012 11:10:30 AM EDT
We recently bought a canoe to use on a local lake and the first time out the Mrs got all excited hauling in a fish and managed to send us swimming.

I am planning on making a set of training wheels...Err outriggers and was thinking of using 3/4" ID (1"OD) PVC pipe for the cross piece to attach the float arms to.

So my question is this..How much force/weight can a 2 ft piece of 3/4" PVC pipe hold assuming the inboard end is supported well?? I can go larger but want to keep things as light as possible and this size seems a good compromise.

For floats I will be attaching these on each end of a PVC T. 6" x 14"  Crab pot floats

Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:12:39 AM EDT




Quoted:

We recently bought a canoe to use on a local lake and the first time out the Mrs got all excited hauling in a fish and managed to send us swimming.



I am planning on making a set of training wheels...Err outriggers and was thinking of using 3/4" ID (1"OD) PVC pipe for the cross piece to attach the float arms to.



So my question is this..How much force/weight can a 2 ft piece of 3/4" PVC pipe hold assuming the inboard end is supported well?? I can go larger but want to keep things as light as possible and this size seems a good compromise.



For floats I will be attaching these on each end of a PVC T. 6" x 14" Crab pot floats







get a piece of aluminum 1" pipe
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:14:07 AM EDT
http://www.easyriderkayaks.com/outriggers-c.htm
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:14:41 AM EDT
3/4" PVC, either schedule 40 or 80, is fairly strong, though whippy.



I personally would go with at least 1" schedule 80, preferably 1 1/2".


 
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:14:42 AM EDT
I don't see a problem, but I'm no PVC expert
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:15:59 AM EDT
Just get your wife a lower center of gravity.  
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:16:11 AM EDT
Quoted:
http://www.easyriderkayaks.com/outriggers-c.htm


Those look nice but start at $500...I should be able to build these for well less then $75
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:16:14 AM EDT
Quoted:
3/4" PVC, either schedule 40 or 80, is fairly strong, though whippy.

I personally would go with at least 1" schedule 80, preferably 1 1/2".
 


This. or you might get by with 1" SCH 40 PVC with the aluminum inner core. I think Flowguard makes it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:18:34 AM EDT
The ME in me says "use wood".
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:19:47 AM EDT
I don't think you'd need anything especially sturdy.

you're not going to be doing pull ups on it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:21:16 AM EDT
do it and post pictures
 
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:21:19 AM EDT
Quoted:
Just get your wife a lower center of gravity.  


I'm not brave enough to suggest that.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:21:39 AM EDT



Quoted:


The ME in me says "use wood".


this it might be cheaper too.



 
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:22:45 AM EDT
A shower curtain rod or a closet hanger bar or the angled steel bracketry for supporting garage door tracks will work much better than 1" PVC and not weigh much more.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:27:51 AM EDT
Quoted:
do it and post pictures  


Plan to but I cant take credit for the idea ... working a modified version of what this fellow did.   http://flyfishinchristian.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/diy-canoe-stabilizer-outrigger-float-or-something-like-that/

I plan to blatantly steal the float design but add end caps instead of the foam. I think the use of the compression Tee is a stroke of genius to adjust the float height.  

I'm trying to improve the cross beam section however ...He used conduit and I just don't get a warm fuzzy from that.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:29:22 AM EDT
Broomstick... just don't tell your wife you bought her one.

Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:29:41 AM EDT
1'' PVC will flex quite a bit regardless if its sch40 or 80, I would go with 1'' aluminum  tubing maybe.
 
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:30:01 AM EDT
Quoted:

Quoted:
The ME in me says "use wood".

this it might be cheaper too.
 


I do plan to use wood to build the cross support spanning the canoe and thought about using wood fo the arms but attaching the floats becomes an issue at that point.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:32:04 AM EDT
Quoted:
The ME in me says "use wood".


The EE in me says there has to be something with magnets that could be rigged up
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:37:05 AM EDT
Go with a pacific islander style outrigger. 2 1/2" pvc with a capped 4" or 5" pvc float 1/2 to 3/4 of the length of the canoe.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:43:06 AM EDT
I would go with bamboo, like the Polynesians.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:47:19 AM EDT
Quoted:
I would go with bamboo, like the Polynesians.


Nothing wrong with old school
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:50:04 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would go with bamboo, like the Polynesians.


Nothing wrong with old school


Nothing wrong with it at all but I'm on the wrong content to go hack down bamboo
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 11:54:44 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would go with bamboo, like the Polynesians.


Nothing wrong with old school


Nothing wrong with it at all but I'm on the wrong content to go hack down bamboo


Use pvc instead of bamboo. My post was on the same lines just updated
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 12:03:07 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would go with bamboo, like the Polynesians.


Nothing wrong with old school


Nothing wrong with it at all but I'm on the wrong content to go hack down bamboo


You might be surprised...  People like to plant that stuff decoratively.  People who have and let it go longer than a season without nuking the ground will generally let you chop some out of their disaster area gratis.  Shit is a goddamn menace.

As for the PVC idea, is that stuff stable under UV exposure?  It'd suck if the thing got brittle and snapped when you were leaning on it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 12:10:45 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would go with bamboo, like the Polynesians.


Nothing wrong with old school


Nothing wrong with it at all but I'm on the wrong content to go hack down bamboo


You might be surprised...  People like to plant that stuff decoratively.  People who have and let it go longer than a season without nuking the ground will generally let you chop some out of their disaster area gratis.  Shit is a goddamn menace.

As for the PVC idea, is that stuff stable under UV exposure?  It'd suck if the thing got brittle and snapped when you were leaning on it.


Doubt that it is UV resistant but I plan on painting everything that is exposed except the foam on the floats and I will use poly on the wooden cross brace


Link Posted: 8/21/2012 12:17:45 PM EDT
I think I just solved my own problem....

Insert 3/4" dowel rods inside the 3/4 PVC pipe. The spec sheet I looked up shows a nominal ID on the pipe as .824 so I should be able to slip a .750 dowel inside for added support.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 12:19:38 PM EDT
The added weight of the dowel kind of defeats the light weight advantages of the PVC.  May as well just go with aluminum tubing.
 
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 12:23:08 PM EDT



Quoted:


I think I just solved my own problem....



Insert 3/4" dowel rods inside the 3/4 PVC pipe. The spec sheet I looked up shows a nominal ID on the pipe as .824 so I should be able to slip a .750 dowel inside for added support.


I doubt you are saving much in weight, or gaining much in strength, over just using something like a 2x4 ripped in half.



 
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 1:22:33 PM EDT
Quoted:
The added weight of the dowel kind of defeats the light weight advantages of the PVC.  May as well just go with aluminum tubing.  


I'm not sure about that. I don't need to get rid of all the flex just manage it. Plus I am trying to stay with the PVC for ease of attaching the float assembly.

If the cross beam hangs over the side 2 foot and I insert a foot of dowel at the canoe end I will have significantly reduced the flexibility of the entire 2 foot section with very minimal weight.

I think I will swing by HD on the way home and pick up a stick of pipe and dowel for some experimentation tonight. Worst case I'm out $10 bucks

Link Posted: 8/21/2012 1:31:25 PM EDT
White PVC is not UV rated, use gray electrical conduit at least
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 1:35:53 PM EDT
Is a canoe really that tippy?



I spent quite a bit of time in a canoe as a teen and don't recall every having a problem.



There's a good chance you are over-thinking this one, OP.


 
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 1:38:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
Is a canoe really that tippy?

I spent quite a bit of time in a canoe as a teen and don't recall every having a problem.

There's a good chance you are over-thinking this one, OP.
 


My dad flipped one I was in once.  I remember thinking, "how in the world..."

Still don't know.  The man has skill.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 1:43:45 PM EDT
Quoted:
Is a canoe really that tippy?

I spent quite a bit of time in a canoe as a teen and don't recall every having a problem.

There's a good chance you are over-thinking this one, OP.
 


They can be if you sit in them. If at least one person kneels, my experience is that the "tip" can be easily managed by that person.

ETA: that's not to say that outriggers wouldn't be great for a boat where you plan to be moving around a lot or focused on other things than boating (like the OP plans to be while fishing).
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 1:51:55 PM EDT
I finally got into a canoe for the first time a couple years ago, after a lifetime on bigger boats.  It reminded me of trying to balance on a floating log.

Link Posted: 8/21/2012 2:27:00 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is a canoe really that tippy?

I spent quite a bit of time in a canoe as a teen and don't recall every having a problem.

There's a good chance you are over-thinking this one, OP.
 


My dad flipped one I was in once.  I remember thinking, "how in the world..."

Still don't know.  The man has skill.


You two need to reread my post and think about the situation I described.  I spent many days and many river miles on the Current, Jacks Fork and Eleven Point Rivers in Missouri in canoe in my teens and early 20's. I'm not worried about it tipping while simply paddling about on a flat lake when we are working together.

We plan to use it to fish out of as well and the added stability will be a nice thing to have when we are not working together and doing our own thing while fishing.  Two people leaning the same way unexpectedly will send you for a swim in just about any canoe.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 2:29:38 PM EDT
Useless PVC-strength anecdote:  

When I was in Boy Scouts we made a Klondike Derby sled out of 2" PVC.  Lasted the entire weekend without a crack, despite the ludicrous amount of punishment we gave it.  Unbelievable.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 2:31:49 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
do it and post pictures  


Plan to but I cant take credit for the idea ... working a modified version of what this fellow did.   http://flyfishinchristian.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/diy-canoe-stabilizer-outrigger-float-or-something-like-that/

I plan to blatantly steal the float design but add end caps instead of the foam. I think the use of the compression Tee is a stroke of genius to adjust the float height.  

I'm trying to improve the cross beam section however ...He used conduit and I just don't get a warm fuzzy from that.



I think the gunwale is going to be the weak link in that design
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 2:37:31 PM EDT
Couple 55 gallon drums and some 3" oilfield pipe should cure that situation..

Seriously..I would get some thickwall stuff if I used PVC pipe. Some of that stuff is fairly brittle and will bust if over-flexed.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 2:38:31 PM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
do it and post pictures  


Plan to but I cant take credit for the idea ... working a modified version of what this fellow did.   http://flyfishinchristian.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/diy-canoe-stabilizer-outrigger-float-or-something-like-that/

I plan to blatantly steal the float design but add end caps instead of the foam. I think the use of the compression Tee is a stroke of genius to adjust the float height.  

I'm trying to improve the cross beam section however ...He used conduit and I just don't get a warm fuzzy from that.



I think the gunwale is going to be the weak link in that design



On his canoe I agree but mine has a 1 inch square extruded aluminum gunwale. I am also planning on using a 1x3 with block clamps as the foundation for mounting the rest of the gear.  The 1x3 will span the canoe gunwale to gunwale and everything will mount to it once its clamped in place.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 2:50:24 PM EDT
Quoted:
do it and post pictures  


This...sounds like the basis for a great how-to thread.

For the purpose you mentioned, I'd think PVC would work just fine.
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 3:42:53 PM EDT
Go to saddle shop, buy saddle cinch, cinch spouse to seat!
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 3:46:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/21/2012 5:26:16 PM EDT
I bet a couple of spare paddles could be re-purposed, and they will be useful after this project is over too.  Fasten together in the center with some Gorilla tape or hose clamps, then temporarily secure something floaty to the ends (appropriate type of foam, inflatable Obama sex doll, etc)  



If you really want to know:

http://www.us.piping.georgefischer.com/go/0B9970F6199943D441223A15E88988AB?action=GF_DocumentDownload&doc_uuid=0B9970F6199943D441223A15E88988AB

and

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Handbook-Mechanical-Engineers-Edition/dp/0071428674/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Link Posted: 8/22/2012 7:22:10 AM EDT
Well I ventured to HD last for a little hands on experimentation and flexed or at least tried to flex 2ft sections of both 3/4 inch and 1in ID PCV. I got a little flex out of the 3/4 and I could not make the 1 flex at all.

I think either would work for my purposes but to I'm going err on the side of caution and use the 1" ID as I could tell no difference in the weight of a 2 ft stick.

The float assembly will remain 3/4 ID with dowel rod inserted for added strength across the bottom section. I really cant use 1"ID here since the holes in the crab pot float will not allow it.  

Floats are due in on Friday so I will work on this over the weekend and post pictures of the finished product.

Link Posted: 8/22/2012 7:23:48 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Go to saddle shop, buy saddle cinch, cinch spouse to seat!


Not sure if it could now be considered a "horse girl" or "bondage" thread but I kinda like the turn this thread is taking.

ARFCOM answer - Get both!


I already threatened her with bungee cords.  She didn't think it was funny for some reason.
Link Posted: 8/22/2012 7:26:31 AM EDT




Quoted:



Quoted:

Just get your wife a lower center of gravity.




I'm not brave enough to suggest that.



Nature will.....eventually.

Link Posted: 8/22/2012 7:48:05 AM EDT
Just get a wooden closet rod (meant for hanging shirts in the closet)
Cheap, strong, light.

The closet rod will be both stronger and stiffer than the PVC for the dimensions you're thinking of.

Link Posted: 8/22/2012 7:51:47 AM EDT
Does not have to be that strong, remember, you are not supporting YOUR weight, you need just enough strength the sink the float.
Link Posted: 8/22/2012 8:21:42 AM EDT
Quoted:
Just get a wooden closet rod (meant for hanging shirts in the closet)
Cheap, strong, light.

The closet rod will be both stronger and stiffer than the PVC for the dimensions you're thinking of.



And very difficult to attach to the float assembly which is made of PVC.
Link Posted: 8/22/2012 9:45:40 AM EDT
I know you ordered the floats already, but I was thinking a 3 liter soda bottle filled with expanding foam might do just as well.  Ghetto as fuck, but I think it'll work.
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