Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Posted: 6/26/2002 11:30:20 AM EDT
JUNE 26, 14:22 ET Pledge Declared Unconstitutional By DAVID KRAVETS Associated Press Writer SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A federal appeals court ruled Wednesday that the Pledge of Allegiance is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and cannot be recited in schools.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:33:00 AM EDT
I guess that all US money is now worthless because it has "GOD" printed on it.[?]
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:35:22 AM EDT
How long until "The 2nd Amendment is unconstitutional?"
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:35:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:37:31 AM EDT
I agree with their decision. Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. In God We Trust [b]is[/b] an endorsement of religion. Would you find it amusing if it read? Allah Be Praised.... Vishnu Above All Others... Buddha Is Great.... TRG
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:37:51 AM EDT
OK, OK. I am now on board. I HATE LAWYERS. JUDGES, TOO.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:38:37 AM EDT
It's not limited to schools. The Pledge itself has been ruled unconstitutional. The 'offending' phrase "One Country Under God" was added to the pledge by Congress & Eisenhower in 1954. The 9th Circuit Federal Appeals Court (San Francisco - big surprise that its California) is the same Appeals Court that OK'd the smoking of grass by that religious group a few weeks ago. It's sure to go to the Supreme Court..but are they going to rule all money is unconstitutional too? Since it says "In God We Trust". The ruling is due to become effective in 7 days, unless a stay is granted as part of the appeal.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:40:52 AM EDT
IT IS NOT AN "ENDORSEMENT" of religion. Besides, "endorsement" is not unconstitutional, only "establishment," if we trust our founding fathers' use of the language. "Establish," as in, "X" is now the official religion. As in "You are forbidden to practice "Y" because "X" is the official religion. THERE IS NO LANGUAGE REMOTELY REQUIRING "SEPARATION" OF CHURCH AND STATE. It is a legal fiction.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:41:17 AM EDT
Very interesting statement by the judge: "A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion," Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel. Apparently, stating that we are "under no god" would also be unconstitutional.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:44:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sweep: [url]www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49473-2002Jun26.html[/url] I don't see what the problem is. There is no law that requires the Pledge to be recited. I remember in high school we had two sisters in the home room that would not stand and recite the Pledge due to it violated their religous faith...and NO ONE ever gave them any crap about it either. Just for the record they were Christians.
View Quote
Yes it is a wonder why someone would file suit against this. It was decided back in the Jehovas Witness cases back during WWII that no one HAD to say the pledge. Not that I agree with what Congress did in 1954, exploiting anti-communitst hysteria to propagandize for organized religion. But since the JV cases had been decided a decade earlier, its always been easier to sue for failure to protect if you were discriminated against for not saying the pledge or leaving out the words "under God". What was different about this time?
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:45:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:49:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Poodleshooter: Very interesting statement by the judge: "A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion," Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel. Apparently, stating that we are "under no god" would also be unconstitutional.
View Quote
As far as I know "God" is a proper name, while "god" is the generic term for a supreme being(s). So if we just change it to read "one nation under god" and for currency "In god We Trust", wouldn't that satisfy everyone but atheists? Good thing when I said the Pledge in School, I ALWAYS said god in lower case god so that I didn't offend anyone...ok, anyone who I didn't previously offend. [;)]
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:50:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:51:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:54:08 AM EDT
Apparently, stating that we are "under no god" would also be unconstitutional.
View Quote
That is correct.
It's sure to go to the Supreme Court..but are they going to rule all money is unconstitutional too? Since it says "In God We Trust
View Quote
No, but if they get picky about it they could order that be left off of future printings.
The Pledge itself has been ruled unconstitutional.
View Quote
Nope, only the version with "under God" in it. If they say it without "under God" its legal.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 11:56:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thedave1164: Leave it to the 9th to come up with this crap. Bunch of socialists.
View Quote
I have always wondered how some people are able to draw the conclusion that someone who doesn't beleve in God also doesn't believe in the possession of private property? How are the two related?
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:03:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Originally Posted By thedave1164: Leave it to the 9th to come up with this crap. Bunch of socialists.
View Quote
I have always wondered how some people are able to draw the conclusion that someone who doesn't beleve in God also doesn't believe in the possession of private property? How are the two related?
View Quote
The author of the opinion doens't SAY he doesn't believe in God, most likely. He's certainly a liberal, and liberals generally subscribe to the notion that it is the gov'ts responsibility to take care of problems, ALL PROBLEMS. The two (and I mean activist judges and socialism, not atheism and socialism) go hand in hand simply because that's what they espouse.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:03:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2002 12:05:40 PM EDT by The_Macallan]
Question for liberals including [b]ArmdLbrl[/b]: Is reciting the Declaration of Independance, Gettysburg Address, Washington's Inaugural speeches or other such historical writings (or certain passages from them) "unconstitutional"?
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:07:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:07:45 PM EDT
The separation of church and state is found in a private letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Connecticut Baptists, essentially assuring them that the Anglican Church would not be selected over them as the national church as it was in England. It is no where in any contitutional document. Now the Government shall not establish its own church is constitutional. Funny how the idea of freedom of religioun has become a freedom from religion. It only serves to alienate the majority and disenfranchise the majority of Americans who do still associate this counrty as blessed by God(whether adonia, Jesus, Allah ect). Im am free to pray to my God as ,long as everyone else is absolutly free from hearing it. So much for freedom or religioun and speech. What other speech will be deemed possible offensive and outlawed. Funny that is someone wants to stand up in my church and discuss thier sexual habits, well Im not supposed to abridge thier freedom of expression, but my kids cannot say "God" in School? interesting. But yes it is just one step closer to the dismantleing of all of our rights.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:10:00 PM EDT
Well, the phrase "One nation under god" implies that there is something higher, more powerful than the government/state. I can see why they wouldn't want to give children in the government public schools that idea.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:11:58 PM EDT
Oh ya and for ya that just say oh well thats a Christian talking, wa wa wa. I am a Jew by birth! Raised in schools that said the pledge and had silent prayer. I said the pledge and did nothing for the prayer. I would never have objected to the plegde not would my family. I think its a matter of respect for this country, 1950 or otherwise. If you dont want to say it then dont! I didnt and I couldnt have cared less.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:14:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:17:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:23:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:30:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2002 12:33:47 PM EDT by ChuckT]
I don't think too many people realize that our entire structure of government is based on the book of Job in the Bible (I'm going to have to look it up now!). The legislative, judicial, and presidential branches were an idea lifted right out of Job. So we were [b]created[/b] as a nation under God. And I would like to repeat the point that we have freedom [b]of[/b] religion, not freedom [b]from[/b] religion. The state is not endorsing any particular form of religion. The fact that 86% of the people in this country claim to be Christians (a number I would personally dispute by the way) means that the remaining 14% can choose to not say the Pledge, or omit the "under God" portion. And teachers should reinforce that we need to respect the other person's [b]RIGHT[/b] to their beliefs. That doesn't mean we have to agree with their beliefs, but we should most certainly respect their rights.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:37:06 PM EDT
He said: 'I've been listening to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance all semester and it seems as though it is becoming monotonous to you. If I may, may I recite it and try to explain to you the meaning of each word?'"……. I - - Me; an individual; a committee of one. Pledge - - Dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self-pity. Allegiance - - My love and my devotion. To the Flag - - Our standard; Old Glory ; a symbol of courage; and wherever she waves there is respect, because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts, Freedom is everybody's job. Of The United - - That means that we have all come together. States - - Individual communities that have united into forty-eight great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose. All divided by imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common cause, and that is love of country, of America . And to the Republic - - Republic--a sovereign state in which power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people; and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people. For which it stands One Nation - - One Nation--meaning, so blessed by God. Indivisible - - Incapable of being divided. With Liberty - - Which is Freedom; the right of power for one to live his own life, without fears, threats, or any sort of retaliation. And Justice - - The principle, or qualities, of dealing fairly with others. For All - - For All--that means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine. And now, boys and girls, let me hear you recite the Pledge of Allegiance: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country, and two words have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance: Under God. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer, and that be eliminated from schools, too? Red Skelton ( July 18, 1913 - Sept 17, 1997) Thanks Red, … "Good Night ... and ... God Bless"
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:41:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: Question for liberals including [b]ArmdLbrl[/b]: Is reciting the Declaration of Independance, Gettysburg Address, Washington's Inaugural speeches or other such historical writings (or certain passages from them) "unconstitutional"?
View Quote
You mean because of the refrences to god? If you are forced to do it, in order to make you say the word God, or to try and force students to beleve that its un-American to not beleve in God because previous American heros did, then yes it would be.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:42:39 PM EDT
First, it is no coincidence that the comm/libs get there agenda forced down our throats via the 9th Circuit(San Francisco). We need to learn something from this with regards to both offensive and defensive tactics. This will go to SCOTUS and it will be interesting to see how they rule. Second, [b]We ARE a nation uner god[/b]. Always have been and always will be hopefully. The constitution prohibits establishment of a specific religion which is advocated by the state. It doesn't prohibit any mention of God by gov't employees or in a public forum. There was no question that the Founding Fathers of this nation had a strong belief in God and expected us to remain a nation "under God". The pilgrims who came here from England to a large degree were coming here to escape the forced establishment of a single religion by the rulers of that nation. That is what this constitutional amendment is all about. I'm sure that if they knew what the gov't and the legal system that exists today was going to turn out like they would have worded much of the Constitution differently, including the 2nd. Third, This is exactly the type of thing that will drive more and more people to place their kids in private and parochial schools. FWIW, I think that would be a good thing. Unfortunately, the public schools will, as a result, become nothing more than warehouses for the poor.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EX_SP: He said: 'I've been listening to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance all semester and it seems as though it is becoming monotonous to you. If I may, may I recite it and try to explain to you the meaning of each word?'"……. I - - Me; an individual; a committee of one. Pledge - - Dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self-pity. Allegiance - - My love and my devotion. To the Flag - - Our standard; Old Glory ; a symbol of courage; and wherever she waves there is respect, because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts, Freedom is everybody's job. Of The United - - That means that we have all come together. States - - Individual communities that have united into forty-eight great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose. All divided by imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common cause, and that is love of country, of America . And to the Republic - - Republic--a sovereign state in which power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people; and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people. For which it stands One Nation - - One Nation--meaning, so blessed by God. Indivisible - - Incapable of being divided. With Liberty - - Which is Freedom; the right of power for one to live his own life, without fears, threats, or any sort of retaliation. And Justice - - The principle, or qualities, of dealing fairly with others. For All - - For All--that means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine. And now, boys and girls, let me hear you recite the Pledge of Allegiance: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country, and two words have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance: Under God. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer, and that be eliminated from schools, too? Red Skelton ( July 18, 1913 - Sept 17, 1997) Thanks Red, … "Good Night ... and ... God Bless"
View Quote
HEY! He used the correct version!
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:51:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ChuckT: I don't think too many people realize that our entire structure of government is based on the book of Job in the Bible (I'm going to have to look it up now!). The legislative, judicial, and presidential branches were an idea lifted right out of Job. So we were [b]created[/b] as a nation under God. And I would like to repeat the point that we have freedom [b]of[/b] religion, not freedom [b]from[/b] religion. The state is not endorsing any particular form of religion. The fact that 86% of the people in this country claim to be Christians (a number I would personally dispute by the way) means that the remaining 14% can choose to not say the Pledge, or omit the "under God" portion. And teachers should reinforce that we need to respect the other person's [b]RIGHT[/b] to their beliefs. That doesn't mean we have to agree with their beliefs, but we should most certainly respect their rights.
View Quote
Beat me to it by a few seconds, ChuckT. Armdlbrl, Nobody anywhere is being forced to say anything. Nor can they be forced to. I do, and always have, felt that the Pledge of Allegiance was bullshit. It is like taking a daily loyalty oath. Would be far better to put our efforts into teaching history in a way that makes us proud of our heritage and our history. Maintaining healthy and intact families is the best thing we could do in this country. Both of those things are far, far more important than taking a "pledge". What I do have a problem with is liberals once again forcing their agenda down our throats by using the 9th Circuit as their own legislative body. Kali sucks. San Francisco sucks big time.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:52:57 PM EDT
So when is Christmas as a national holiday going to be ruled as unconstitutional?
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 12:56:41 PM EDT
Leave it up to the 9th circut, man are they a joke. They should change it to 9th circus. CA pretty much strikes me a nice state with shit for brains running the place.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:00:20 PM EDT
"In recent years, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned 27 of 29 9th Circuit decisions so that tells you that the 9th Circuit is out of step with the rest of the federal judiciary," said Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:00:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: So when is Christmas as a national holiday going to be ruled as unconstitutional?
View Quote
Soon
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:03:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:04:34 PM EDT
Well every morning from kindergarten on up through sixth grade I stated this. Yep go Old RONALD REAGAN WAS PRESIDENT... Here I can still do it.. [size=6] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation UNDER GOD INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL [/size=6] Benjamin
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:05:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Boomer: So when is Christmas as a national holiday going to be ruled as unconstitutional?
View Quote
Now don't get ridiculous. First off Christmas WASNT a "declared" holiday in England OR America untill fairly late in the 19th Century. Everyone still just took it off. Christmas is a holiday as a reflection that no one is going to show up, and you cant punish them for not showing up, so why bother even trying to work that day?
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:06:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:07:13 PM EDT
All of you can say what you want, the fact is that this country was founding on Christian principles. Allah and Buddha did not have shit to do with this country, except for the fact that a person could choose to worship them as "God" freely without be persecuted for it. Banning the "pledge of allegiance" is just another nail in the coffin on the USA. God has held a protective shield around this country since we became a nation. No other country has been blessed like ours. I have a pesimistic outlook on the future of the USA and today's news just makes the dark days ahead seem closer.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:08:09 PM EDT
We are in the middle of abandoning the Biblical worldview, with its concepts of absolute truth and higher authority, and replacing it with a Secular Humanist worldview
View Quote
What is this WE crap???
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:08:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Interesting topic-this seems like a no brainer to me-a pledge with "under God" ain't gonna fly in a public school, I'm kind of surprised when people get up in arms over it. There is a school near me where for a small donation-to the football team fund or whatever- you could write something in a brick in a sidewalk, you know "Aimless '02 woohoo" or whatever. Well some local minister writes "Jesus Christ is Savior" on a brick and sticks it in the walk. Of course local aethist/hindu whatever family finds this not cool so school has to remove (which I personally agree with) so minister finds some religious group to get him a free lawyer and sue the school for breach of contract, now taxpayers have to spend more money over this fiasco.
View Quote
Cant argue with someone who has no problem abridging peoples 1st and 5th Ammendment rights. So dont be suprised when someone says you owning a AR next door to them offends them and uncle sam comes and gets it.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:12:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: OK, OK. I am now on board. I HATE LAWYERS. JUDGES, TOO.
View Quote
Amen, but Eric the hun seems cool[;)]
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:15:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2002 1:15:38 PM EDT by CITADELGRAD87]
Originally Posted By sniped:
Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87: OK, OK. I am now on board. I HATE LAWYERS. JUDGES, TOO.
View Quote
Amen, but Eric the hun seems cool[;)]
View Quote
What about me?[:D]
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:17:32 PM EDT
i pledge alleigance to the () United States of America, and to the Republic (), one nation, () indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:20:08 PM EDT
For the friggin liberal mofo's, here are the "real" problems with the Pledge..(in [b]Bold[/b]) I pledge allegiance to the flag of the [b]United States of America[/b] and to the [b]Republic[/b] for which it stands [b]One Nation[/b] Under God [b]Indivisible With Liberty and Justice for ALL[/b] Heven forbid that any of these "ideas" should be freely floating around in a school, let alone the rest of the country! [rolleyes] I remember this from when I was in school (I do believe from K-12) My 8 yo daughter does it at school too. [:)]
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:28:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2002 1:39:05 PM EDT by USNA91]
Looks like the terrorists may have been right all along: We are a Godless country! How pathetic! I, for one, swear here and now before all of you [b]and[/b] Almighty God, that my two daughters [b]will[/b] be taught to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in the same manner as [b]we[/b] were taught, and that they will be taught to do so with the proper reverence for the Flag and humility before God! And I dare [b]ANYONE[/b] who hears them to try and stop them! They'll have to kill us all, and we'll shoot back in the process! [pissed] [b]My God, my God! Why hast thou foresaken us? We're not all spineless, amoral, brainless, blasphemous, lying, corrupt, power-hungry liberals! Have mercy on those who still believe in You despite the torrent of filth and hatred directed against us for it![/b] Edited to correct the spelling of a reference the Almighty. Geez you know I'm pissed when I can't type Y-O-U!
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:29:37 PM EDT
From the Communist manifesto: {When the ancient world was in its last throes, the ancient religions were overcome by Christianity. When Christian ideas succumbed in the eighteenth century to rationalist ideas, feudal society fought its death battle with the then revolutionary bourgeoisie. The ideas of religious liberty and freedom of conscience merely gave expression to the sway of free competition within the domain of knowledge. "Undoubtedly," it will be said, "religious, moral, philosophical, and juridicial ideas have been modified in the course of historical development. But religion, morality, philosophy, political science, and law, constantly survived this change." "There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society.[b] But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience." [/b] What does this accusation reduce itself to? The history of all past society has consisted in the development of class antagonisms, antagonisms that assumed different forms at different epochs. But whatever form they may have taken, one fact is common to all past ages, viz., the exploitation of one part of society by the other. No wonder, then, that the social consciousness of past ages, despite all the multiplicity and variety it displays, moves within certain common forms, or general ideas,[b] which cannot completely vanish except with the total disappearance of class antagonisms.[/b] In other words...for communism to thrive, you must get rid of God or supreme authority. No inalienable rights from our creator. This decision is a big step in determining the direction of our country...our concern with Govt. taking our guns has to be prefaced with eliminating our original contracts and who gave them to us....God. Buddha did'nt influence the forefathers...Islam did'nt either nor did Satanism...the inalienable rights that were given to them are the same given to us....from God. And yes....we know which God it is. The one that's in the pledge of allegiance. Congratulations socialist/commies...you've taken a big step at demoralizing our nation. Looks like my Paw Paw was right...there will be another evolution on American soil. [b][blue]NAKED[/blue][/b]
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:31:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MRW: You see, the problem is that we are experiencing a fundamental shift in our view of reality in this country. This country was founded on and used to have a Biblical worldview, that is to say, we used to base our view of philosophy, morality, ethics, politics, the nature of man, and the nature of government on what the Bible says about those things. You don't have to be a Christian to have a Biblical Worldview, although they are somewhat related. We are in the middle of abandoning the Biblical worldview, with its concepts of absolute truth and higher authority, and replacing it with a Secular Humanist worldview. Secular Humanism is where man is the ultimate authority and source for truth. In this case, that authority is a Circuit court, who rule by fiat, regardless of what the Constitution says. In order to function, Secular Humanism requires that all vestiges of the Biblical worldview be removed from society. That's why we see these cultural battles taking place, the umbrage over the Pledge just being one of them.
View Quote
Very well said
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:34:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Rem_700: All of you can say what you want, the fact is that this country was founding on Christian principles. Allah and Buddha did not have shit to do with this country, except for the fact that a person could choose to worship them as "God" freely without be persecuted for it. Banning the "pledge of allegiance" is just another nail in the coffin on the USA. God has held a protective shield around this country since we became a nation. No other country has been blessed like ours. I have a pesimistic outlook on the future of the USA and today's news just makes the dark days ahead seem closer.
View Quote
Oh, buddy, did you ever NAIL it! Sub-MOA, dude! In one word, I've come to the conclusion that America, as the sole beacon of Freedom in an otherwise deplorable world, is FUC*ED. Perhaps God will bless us soon by causing "the big one" and having Kali sink into the ocean....
Link Posted: 6/26/2002 1:35:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Benjamin0001:
We are in the middle of abandoning the Biblical worldview, with its concepts of absolute truth and higher authority, and replacing it with a Secular Humanist worldview
View Quote
What is this WE crap???
View Quote
What Benjamin said!
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 4
Top Top