I am not seeking someone to challenge my individual view but to share thier opinions to find some consensus.  If you wish to debate do so but this is meant as a "feeler"

Here goes mine......................................

Americans by an large in my view are clueless lazy and apathetic as to the issues concerning them.  Most of the motivated are either misguided or if they are on point are a disturbing minority among those who "support" or "share" thier belief on whatever the issue but cannot be bothered.

This in mind WTF do you think it would take the average American lardass to want to fight (as in combat with the possibility of death) for a right or principle?  By and large I believe nearly all are sheep and will stay sheep thus a lost cause for those who would fight also those who are willing by and large will be serving as the enemy our military and Police.  We cannot even keep joe hunter from fucking assault weapon and MG owners so how would we move him to fight?

huh

Quoted: huh

What?

The only thing I could think of that would get the average american lard ass off his couch, and possibly make him want to wage war against his country, or anyone else, would be the elimination of cable/satelite television.

Quoted: I am not seeking someone to challenge my individual view but to share thier opinions to find some consensus.  If you wish to debate do so but this is meant as a "feeler" Here goes mine...................................... Americans by an large in my view are clueless lazy and apathetic as to the issues concerning them.  Most of the motivated are either misguided or if they are on point are a disturbing minority among those who "support" or "share" thier belief on whatever the issue but cannot be bothered. This in mind WTF do you think it would take the average American lardass to want to fight (as in combat with the possibility of death) for a right or principle?  By and large I believe nearly all are sheep and will stay sheep thus a lost cause for those who would fight also those who are willing by and large will be serving as the enemy our military and Police.  We cannot even keep joe hunter from fucking assault weapon and MG owners so how would we move him to fight?

WTF is an assault weapon?

If we had a civil war, the US would cease to exist.  During such a calamity, every shithole country in the world would come in here and try to do as much damage as possible.

So, given that, what would be the point of a civil war?  Yes, there are things worth fighting for but when the end result is far worse than what would have been otherwise, is it really worth it?

I agree with your statement that sheeple will stay sheeple and cannot be motivated to fight, however, I also believe that every person has his/her breaking point and will fight along side their fellow man. I am unsure what would motivate a person to fight, but I do know that if any of my liberties are taken away, I will definately be ready to stand up and fight

Quoted: The only thing I could think of that would get the average american lard ass off his couch, and possibly make him want to wage war against his country, or anyone else, would be the elimination of cable/satelite television.

Very sad but so true.

Quoted: The only thing I could think of that would get the average american lard ass off his couch, and possibly make him want to wage war against his country, or anyone else, would be the elimination of cable/satelite television.

How true!

Three meals away from the revolution.

Quoted: The only thing I could think of that would get the average american lard ass off his couch, and possibly make him want to wage war against his country, or anyone else, would be the elimination of cable/satelite television.

That's probably true.  Of course, if it happened this afternoon it would be ok by me.

Seriously, I hate to think of the circumstances that would have to be in place for the average American to become enraged enough to take up arms.  We got a glimpse of that with 9/11, but look how quickly that has passed.

Once upon a time an entire generation was galvanized behind the words "Remember Pearl Harbor."  I am afraid that time and that mindset and perhaps even that degree of character has long since passed from this country.

Quoted: Three meals away from the revolution.

Concur. The veneer of civilization is very thin. Sometimes an excuse is all that's needed - look at what happens as soon as the lights go out in some places.

Quoted: Quoted: Three meals away from the revolution. Concur. The veneer of civilization is very thin. Sometimes an excuse is all that's needed - look at what happens as soon as the lights go out in some places.

That is less a riot than an excuse.  Look at New Orleans, whitey packs up and leaves then the raiding parties form and the cops are active participants.  



No I am not a racists, people are equally capable of being P.O.S.s regardless of skin color.  I just state what the videos show.

They are all (95%) sheep
Most don't even see what's happening, of the ones that do, they don't want it to affect them (NIMBY)
they even accept the total violation of their rights because it might require work for them to overcome.
As someone said earlier, if they get their bread and circuses, they don't care.

In 1860, it was a desire for glory, to prove oneself, and patriotism to the state and the country.

I think many of these same reasons would inspire many but not most to risk their lives.
In the American Revolutionary War, it started with only 33% willing to fight for liberty. And another 33% didn't care.

Now I predict 25% would fight for, 25% would fight against and 50% would stand on the sidelines waiting to see who was going to win.

Quoted: Fuck

WTF?  Fuck what?

I think the average American would passively bring his family, and a couple of suitcases to the camps when told to do so.

You said "average". And I don't think the average american male would fight over anything.

That said, I am curious just how many it would take.
And what direction those in the .mil would go.  I know when I was in where it would be but now, after reading some of the posts by military folks here I am not so sure anymore.

Quoted: This in mind WTF do you think it would take the average American lardass to want to fight (as in combat with the possibility of death) for a right or principle?  By and large I believe nearly all are sheep and will stay sheep thus a lost cause for those who would fight also those who are willing by and large will be serving as the enemy our military and Police.  We cannot even keep joe hunter from fucking assault weapon and MG owners so how would we move him to fight?

Are you or have you been deployed to Iraq?  If so, then good question.  
If not, then what are you waiting for?

Quoted: .  Right now our hate for each other is tempered by the fact that we are distracted with gadgets.  We don't want to do anything rash that would risk our chance to buy that plasma TV after a few more paychecks, that would mean we couldn't take the boat down to the lake for a weekend of waterskiing and booze.  .

How on earth you could have such a low opinion of Americans is beyond me.   Worse thing is, you're probably one of us.  We eat, we go to work, we elect bad leaders, and replace them with bad leaders but we're free and proud, and know it, by and large.

I think half the guys in here care more about getting to shoot someone eventually in their backyard than improving the situation, showing some leadership, joining the military and actually going to where the fight is, or some other constructive plan.

Seriously... you scare me.

Americans aren't without their faults, but we are they, and I KNOW the ratio of walking men and ready gun owners would be nearly one to one if someone ever invaded our soil.

And of the hate for each other you speak of?  Well, if we could find leaders from either side that would be 'uniters, not dividers', perhaps that artificial dichotomy would fade against other world problems.

Quoted: Quoted: .  Right now our hate for each other is tempered by the fact that we are distracted with gadgets.  We don't want to do anything rash that would risk our chance to buy that plasma TV after a few more paychecks, that would mean we couldn't take the boat down to the lake for a weekend of waterskiing and booze.  . How on earth you could have such a low opinion of Americans is beyond me.

How old are you?
Because your comments suggest a very limited experience.

I think half the guys in here care more about getting to shoot someone eventually in their backyard than improving the situation, showing some leadership, joining the military and actually going to where the fight is, or some other constructive plan.

Like maybe running for office? Do you pay any attn to what it takes to get elected? PC bullshit and promises to give everyone something of everyone else's.  And we can't even offend anyone enough to protect our own borders.

Join the .mil?
BTDT myself.  Great. And I am proud to have served but how does that solve ANY of this nation's internal problems. ANY.

Going to fight in Iraq? Again, great. I think it is a good thing we did. But how in the hell does it help straighten out this nation's internal problems or fiscal difficulties.  We'd do better to put those troops on the Mexico border.

I have a constructive plan.  But until Americans are willing to put PC bullshit, socialism and class warfare aside it will NEVER be implemented.

Seriously... you scare me.

Hopefully I do also.
I like the way you left out the comment about economic collapse. When that happens we'll see what you think.

Americans aren't without their faults, but we are they, and I KNOW the ratio of walking men and ready gun owners would be nearly one to one if someone ever invaded our soil.

We're not talking about foreign invasion but even with that I dispute your numbers.  

And of the hate for each other you speak of?  Well, if we could find leaders from either side that would be 'uniters, not dividers', perhaps that artificial dichotomy would fade against other world problems.

Well, there ya go.
And why is that?
Why is it that people elect "dividers"? See my comments above for the answers.

Further there is no doubt in my mind that Americans are ruder to one another than ever.  And it is all about selfishness and class warfare, again.  Very different from the environment prior to the Depression and WWII.  
If there is another Depression and a WWIII along with it, and I believe there will be, the environment will be far more caustic than the last.

Quoted: Quoted: If we had a civil war, the US would cease to exist.  During such a calamity, every shithole country in the world would come in here and try to do as much damage as possible. They already are.  It wouldn't make things better.

Not even close.

I also love all the comments about "sheeple", etc, as if those saying would do it when others would not.

Quoted: Americans aren't without their faults, but we are they, and I KNOW the ratio of walking men and ready gun owners would be nearly one to one if someone ever invaded our soil.

The questions were in regard to a civil war, not the invasion of the US.

As far as my POV, I don't see it happening. I think we are all to pre-occupied with obtaining stuff, and keeping up with the Jones'.. I believe in regard to our gun rights, and other rights, these will be slowly eroded away, as they have been for the last 60 or so years. Folks don't tend to revolt when it doesn't seem to be such a big deal. The people who want to change our country & erode our rights are smart enough to know this.

$.02

ETA: I am not by any means saying that we shouldn't put up a fight, however!!! Do whatever you can to preserve our great nation, and the Constitution as our forefathers intended it!!

The Police will bring any matter of civil unrest under control in short order. This has all been thought through very carefully and we have nothing to worry about. Just call  911 and let the athorities handle it.

Quoted: I am not seeking someone to challenge my individual view but to share thier opinions to find some consensus.  If you wish to debate do so but this is meant as a "feeler" Here goes mine...................................... Americans by an large in my view are clueless lazy and apathetic as to the issues concerning them.  Most of the motivated are either misguided or if they are on point are a disturbing minority among those who "support" or "share" thier belief on whatever the issue but cannot be bothered. This in mind WTF do you think it would take the average American lardass to want to fight (as in combat with the possibility of death) for a right or principle?  By and large I believe nearly all are sheep and will stay sheep thus a lost cause for those who would fight also those who are willing by and large will be serving as the enemy our military and Police.  We cannot even keep joe hunter from fucking assault weapon and MG owners so how would we move him to fight?

Quoted: Well, there ya go. And why is that? Why is it that people elect "dividers"? See my comments above for the answers. We elected a 'uniter' who turned out to be a divider.  Not a lot of choice in this last one.  Voting for Kerry certainly wasn't a rational option Further there is no doubt in my mind that Americans are ruder to one another than ever.  And it is all about selfishness and class warfare, again.  Very different from the environment prior to the Depression and WWII.  prior to the depression and WWII there were plenty of social artifacts that we are much better off without.  Selfishness and class warfare?  Who's waging war on whom? If there is another Depression and a WWIII along with it, and I believe there will be, the environment will be far more caustic than the last. no way out of a depression and WWIII, heh?  Well, one might have hoped that forward thinking freedom loving democracies, of which we are the foremost, might work towards peace and prosperity for the world while mainting hegemony and security.  Guess it's hopeless...

I simply and flat out disagree that the situation is as bad, extreme, or hopeless as you maintain.  No, this isn't the America of 1945, but it is manifestly a stronger nation, with a greater world position and the responsibility that comes with it.  Certainly, there are elements, such as the media, that prosper when conflict festers.  Addressing these problems isn't as simple as invoking the morals of our fathers, or misanthropically spewing about how bad we've become.  Grimly predicting internal civil war because we're overly materialistic is simply fatuous and sensationalistic.  

I refuse to accept that bitter partisan politics that balances 49 vs 51 percent is the best the leaders of this nation can come up with.  In 300 million people, there must be the match for at least a few of the founding fathers in character, temperament, and will to do right by the nation.  We'd damn well better start finding them.  Preparing for WWIII and getting ready to fight off 300 neighbors in squad formation may be more fun, but it's hardly moving forward.

Quoted: Three meals away from the revolution.

I think it would be more like 9 - 12 meals before the thin veneer of civilization would disappear, but a good number of folks would start before they missed meal #6 for sure.

Quoted: Quoted: Well, there ya go. And why is that? Why is it that people elect "dividers"? See my comments above for the answers. We elected a 'uniter' who turned out to be a divider.  Not a lot of choice in this last one.  Voting for Kerry certainly wasn't a rational option

Lesser of two evils, no doubt. And not by much.
You are just proving my point.

Further there is no doubt in my mind that Americans are ruder to one another than ever.  And it is all about selfishness and class warfare, again.  Very different from the environment prior to the Depression and WWII.  prior to the depression and WWII there were plenty of social artifacts that we are much better off without.  Selfishness and class warfare?  Who's waging war on whom?

Socialists on the United States of America and everything it stands for. Destroy one institution after another and the country will eventually fall. Start with the family, get the fathers out of the home. Than our heros, our religion, our patriotism. Convince people there is no need for any sense  of responsibility and tell them it is acceptable to murder their babies.  And then tell them they are "entitled".  Entitled to what others have worked for. So you tell me who declared war on whom.

yeah, there were some things from that era we are better out without.  We'll see how that goes.
The thing I sense about that time, and I might be wrong as I wasn't there, but it is hard to believe that people didn't give a shit about one another more. That there was a stronger sense of morals, ethics, family.

If there is another Depression and a WWIII along with it, and I believe there will be, the environment will be far more caustic than the last. no way out of a depression and WWIII, heh?

There is but we are doing nothing to accomplish that. Instead, just the opposite.  Are we at the point of no return? Perhaps. If not, we are getting there in short order.

Well, one might have hoped that forward thinking freedom loving democracies, of which we are the foremost, might work towards peace and prosperity for the world while mainting hegemony and security.  Guess it's hopeless...

As above.
Prosperity for the world?
Peace?

LMAO.

I simply and flat out disagree that the situation is as bad, extreme, or hopeless as you maintain.  No, this isn't the America of 1945, but it is manifestly a stronger nation, with a greater world position and the responsibility that comes with it.  Certainly, there are elements, such as the media, that prosper when conflict festers.  Addressing these problems isn't as simple as invoking the morals of our fathers, or misanthropically spewing about how bad we've become.  Grimly predicting internal civil war because we're overly materialistic is simply fatuous and sensationalistic.

I'm not predicting Civil War.
However, there are worse alternatives.

I refuse to accept that bitter partisan politics that balances 49 vs 51 percent is the best the leaders of this nation can come up with.

Refuse all you like. Doesn't change the facts. Not one iota.

In 300 million people, there must be the match for at least a few of the founding fathers in character, temperament, and will to do right by the nation.

They wouldn't consider becoming involved in politics though I suspect they adult.  I don't think George Washington, Jefferson, Adams, etc could get elected running against a stuffed animal.

We'd damn well better start finding them.

Well, there ya go.
Reagan was the only one in 50 years, maybe more.  They are rare as hen's teeth.
And if you don't find them, then what?

Preparing for WWIII and getting ready to fight off 300 neighbors in squad formation may be more fun, but it's hardly moving forward.

The political process is broken,
our borders leak like a sieve,
our enemies walk into this country unabated,
we plunge almost $3billion further into debt everyday and that is accelerating,
in 9 years there will only be 2 workers for everyone on SSI,
our trade deficit spirals out of control,
while the people of our country have lost their way
and our social fabric is unravleing at every edge.

The only things that have made us this powerful have been the 2 oceans that separate us from the rest of the world and we are pissing even that advantage away.

GWB should be impeached and virtually every politician run out of DC on a rail after being tarred and feathered.

I hope I am wrong but I doubt it. Time will tell.
And in the end I realize full well that I can only look out for my own family. I suggest you all do the same.

Quoted: The only thing I could think of that would get the average american lard ass off his couch, and possibly make him want to wage war against his country, or anyone else, would be the elimination of cable/satelite television.

Reminds me of the bumper sticker :  FREE YOUR MIND -SHOOT YOUR TV!

first off you posit a civil war and then without saying what it is about, you posit that most Americans are lard asses and the military and police are going to be your enemies?  WTF are you thinking about fighting about?  How bout we say it's the various hispano-americans trying to take the southwest back?  There's a possible scenario.  Hmm I gues you must be fighting with the hispanos because the police and military would be fighting against them.  Some kind of black separatist movement? what side are you on then?  The Texans decide to get uppity?  

Or are you worried they are going to close the Reynolds Aluminum plant that makes foil for your hats?

Are you going to run around your neighborhood shooting anybody that has fringee on their flags?  even the fuds down at the American Legion?

Quoted: first off you posit a civil war and then without saying what it is about, you posit that most Americans are lard asses and the military and police are going to be your enemies?  WTF are you thinking about fighting about?  How bout we say it's the various hispano-americans trying to take the southwest back?  There's a possible scenario.  Hmm I gues you must be fighting with the hispanos because the police and military would be fighting against them.  Some kind of black separatist movement? what side are you on then?  The Texans decide to get uppity?   Or are you worried they are going to close the Reynolds Aluminum plant that makes foil for your hats? Are you going to run around your neighborhood shooting anybody that has fringee on their flags?  even the fuds down at the American Legion?

American Legion?
Sounds like a Marxist organization....

The only thing I would say about your post is that I do not see the police and mil taking any action against Mexico. Either in their own country or against infiltrators in the US. I could see them taking actions against Americans that oppose them.  

Black Separatists?
Anitquated concept.

Tin foil?
Got a role in my drawer.

Quoted: Quoted: first off you posit a civil war and then without saying what it is about, you posit that most Americans are lard asses and the military and police are going to be your enemies?  WTF are you thinking about fighting about?  How bout we say it's the various hispano-americans trying to take the southwest back?  There's a possible scenario.  Hmm I gues you must be fighting with the hispanos because the police and military would be fighting against them.  Some kind of black separatist movement? what side are you on then?  The Texans decide to get uppity?   Or are you worried they are going to close the Reynolds Aluminum plant that makes foil for your hats? Are you going to run around your neighborhood shooting anybody that has fringee on their flags?  even the fuds down at the American Legion? American Legion?50s-60s redneck southern soldiers union, and yes it would be prejudice in orgin but in my experience these southern boys hate pretty much everyone who is not white or a veteran both my grandfathers were members Sounds like a Marxist organization....Not really The only thing I would say about your post is that I do not see the police and mil taking any action against Mexico. Either in their own country or against infiltrators in the US. I could see them taking actions against Americans that oppose them.  Jorge Bush will do nothing his arab and S. American friends are making to much money in the drug trade Black Separatists?  Here in the South I assure you it is not as antiquated as you think.  Bad history still runs deep here you basicly need a few generations to die off before true progress will be made. Anitquated concept. Tin foil? Got a role in my drawer.

I did not list specifics because that was not the point I was asking for opinions and thoughts in general.  Also I have no problem with Latinos even if they are here illegally or not, for the simple reason the ones I come accross are consistent and hard workers who look to improve thier situation.  Certainly cannot say that about a signifigant part of LA.'s population.  Laziness is part of the culture here with a large chunk of the black folks.  Not a racial comment nor meant as one just a sad depressing reality.    

I suspect Thomas Jefferson wouldn't even make it through a primary...

Quoted: Are you or have you been deployed to Iraq?  If so, then good question.   If not, then what are you waiting for?

Bravo!


Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, going back soon :)

Quoted: The Police will bring any matter of civil unrest under control in short order. This has all been thought through very carefully and we have nothing to worry about. Just call  911 and let the athorities handle it.

Quoted: Quoted: The Police will bring any matter of civil unrest under control in short order. This has all been thought through very carefully and we have nothing to worry about. Just call  911 and let the athorities handle it.

Ironic in your sarcasm you sound like a liberal who would tell us we do not need guns.

Quoted: Quoted: huh What?

YEAH!!