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Posted: 1/10/2005 12:02:29 PM EDT
Us gunowners should try to be more truethful than the antis. we are better than them.


On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's grocery store in suburban Denver, Colorado, and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semiautomatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al," fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during his murderous rampage. ("Authorities Investigate Gun Sale: Rifle Used in Albertson's Slayings Wasn't Illegal," Rocky Mountain News, May 1, 1995)
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:05:38 PM EDT
Who cares!  They shouldn't be outlawed based on weither or not they have been used in a crime!

We are already more truthfull than them!
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:07:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GC456:
Who cares!  


I care that the NRA and gunowners look lke idiots when then keep hitting a talking point that is a lie.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:08:57 PM EDT
OK, OK, we're wrong.

In twenty-five years, there's been ONE crime committed by someone using a fifty.

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:09:30 PM EDT
If we outlawed everything that was used in a crime we wouldn't have paper, matches, cars, guns, knives, waterguns, pens, fists, hands, feet etc.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:11:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 12:12:12 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
I believe there is some contention to whether or not he actually fired the .50, despite that NEWS article.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:12:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gotm4:
If we outlawed everything that was used in a crime we wouldn't have paper, matches, cars, guns, knives, waterguns, pens, fists, hands, feet etc.


This isnt about whether they should be legal or illegal.  its about telling the truth. the LIE that a 50 Cal has never been used in a crime is being spouted several times a day on this board, making us look like liars.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:13:07 PM EDT
at waco they were using the .50 cal right?
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:13:34 PM EDT
The rest of the story is that they found the fifty in the trunk of his car not on him.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:14:19 PM EDT
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.

But the guy in the armored bulldozer in Granby supposedly fired his .50 cal at a propane tank storage facility. Luckily none of them blew up.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:14:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
OK, OK, we're wrong.

In twenty-five years, there's been ONE crime committed by someone using a fifty.




It appears there are at least two.

In June of 2004, Marvin Heemeyer of Granby, Colorado, plowed a makeshift armored bulldozer into several buildings in response to a zoning dispute and fines for city code violations. Heemeyer armored his 60-ton bulldozer with two sheets of half-inch steel with a layer of concrete between them. He methodically drove the bulldozer through the town of Granby, damaging or leveling 13 buildings before taking his own life. Heemeyer mounted three rifles on the bulldozer, including a Barrett 82A1 50 caliber sniper rifle. ("Man who plowed armored bulldozer into seven buildings in Colorado is dead, authorities say," Associated Press, June 5, 2004; "Armored Dozer Was Bad to Go," Denver Rocky Mountain News, June 25, 2004)


Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:15:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:16:46 PM EDT
This is the first time I've ever read ANYTHING that alleged that a .50 had been used in a crime. As such, it has not been a lie.

Now, if this is the ONLY instance where one has been used, then our position is reduced by absolutely ZERO.

I still can't get over how some guy drove up someplace, got out of a car, started unloading everything they claim he had, and walked into a store before anyone noticed. Also, why haven't the anti's been crowing about this incident?
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:19:34 PM EDT
You got a source OTHER THAN the VPC? I wouldn't go outside without an umbrella if they said it was sunny.

Petrosky had a .50 cal with him "that had been fired at some point", but those killed that day were done by the SKS from everything I've been able to find so far.

Got a link to something other than that approved by Sarah Brady?

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:19:37 PM EDT
See also Suspect Organizations and Individuals Possessing Long-Range Fifty Caliber Sniper Weapons, Minority Staff Report, Committee on Government Reform, U.S. House of Representatives (1999).
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:20:05 PM EDT

In June of 2004, Marvin Heemeyer of Granby, Colorado, plowed a makeshift armored bulldozer into several buildings in response to a zoning dispute and fines for city code violations. Heemeyer armored his 60-ton bulldozer with two sheets of half-inch steel with a layer of concrete between them. He methodically drove the bulldozer through the town of Granby, damaging or leveling 13 buildings before taking his own life. Heemeyer mounted three rifles on the bulldozer, including a Barrett 82A1 50 caliber sniper rifle. ("Man who plowed armored bulldozer into seven buildings in Colorado is dead, authorities say," Associated Press, June 5, 2004; "Armored Dozer Was Bad to Go," Denver Rocky Mountain News, June 25, 2004)


I think this one is false also. The news kept saying that he had a .50 cal but when they showed the rifle it actually was just an ordinary .30 cal. deer rifle. Something like a 30-06 or .300 winmag.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:20:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
This is the first time I've ever read ANYTHING that alleged that a .50 had been used in a crime. As such, it has not been a lie.




It's a VPC press release.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:20:34 PM EDT
If this is the crime I have heard of before, I believe he had a .50 in his van but never used it.  He shot the cop with the SKS.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:21:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By gotm4:
If we outlawed everything that was used in a crime we wouldn't have paper, matches, cars, guns, knives, waterguns, pens, fists, hands, feet etc.


making us look like liars



Oh no, Lying........ Thats something for the Anti-Gunners to do
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.


....and they always tell the truth?
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:21:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



Where's the PROOF.

One doesn't fire a 1/2-inch slug out of a small cannon and not leave behind some PROOF.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:22:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



Got another link for a case report? Something other than your VPC press release? A court transcript would be perfect...

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:24:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 12:31:12 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By RevDeadCorpse:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



Got another link for a case report? Something other than your VPC press release? A court transcript would be perfect...



They cite the news articles.  Show me ANY evidence that the news articles are wrong.  
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:32:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RevDeadCorpse:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



Got another link for a case report? Something other than your VPC press release? A court transcript would be perfect...



They cite the news articles.



And our new reporters in this country are just so knowledgable on firearms. They can't even all agree on how Albert offed himself in prison. The Congressional report citing he slashed his wrists while the Denver articles stating he hung himself. If they can't even agree on that much, everything else is equally suspect. An SKS shot at close range, ie; inside 100 yards, is perfectly capable of going right through a squad car. Hell, a .223 will do that.

Care to continue to try to build your case with liberal reporters ignorance and VPC lies?

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:36:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By RevDeadCorpse:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



Got another link for a case report? Something other than your VPC press release? A court transcript would be perfect...



They cite the news articles.  Show me ANY evidence that the news articles are wrong.  



Sheesh, then it must be true.....
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:43:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Us gunowners should try to be more truethful than the antis. we are better than them.


L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle



The LAR Grizzly is actually a .50 cal HANDGUN based on the 1911 design if I recall correctly.  NOT A FRIGGIN SNIPER RIFLE!!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:46:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



Well then it must be true!!! If the police say it is, than it must be so!!!!!
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:47:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gotm4:
If we outlawed everything that was used in a crime we wouldn't have paper, matches, cars, guns, knives, waterguns, pens, fists, hands, feet etc.



+1
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:47:47 PM EDT
Umm. . .
The LAR Grizzly is a bolt action rifle, not a handgun IIRC
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:49:57 PM EDT
so, your saying in the lat 70 years, less then 5 bad things happends with 50's?

wow...  
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:50:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Umm. . .
The LAR Grizzly is a bolt action rifle, not a handgun IIRC



Actualy, LAR did make a 1911 varient handgun. But it wasn't a .50 BMG.

LAR Grizzly WinMag

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:51:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By russr:
so, your saying in the lat 70 years, less then 5 bad things happends with 50's?

wow...  



More people have been killed with steak knives and bath tubs.

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:53:10 PM EDT
I beleive that if he actually fired it, everyone in the store would have needed hearing aids and would have been deaf...

Ben
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:55:11 PM EDT
And we all know how concerned the majority of reporters are in this country about digging for the truth...actually its the truth as they wish to portray it, OR they simply don't feel it necessary to get their facts straight just as long as their liberal agenda is pushed to their satisfaction.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 12:57:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



Well then it must be true!!! If the police say it is, than it must be so!!!!!



+1


Authorities claimed that the Davidians set their own compound on fire. I tend to disagree with that.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:00:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 1:03:58 PM EDT by fadedsun]
I heard it on the internet so it must be true.

Ben
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:03:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sodie:

In June of 2004, Marvin Heemeyer of Granby, Colorado, plowed a makeshift armored bulldozer into several buildings in response to a zoning dispute and fines for city code violations. Heemeyer armored his 60-ton bulldozer with two sheets of half-inch steel with a layer of concrete between them. He methodically drove the bulldozer through the town of Granby, damaging or leveling 13 buildings before taking his own life. Heemeyer mounted three rifles on the bulldozer, including a Barrett 82A1 50 caliber sniper rifle. ("Man who plowed armored bulldozer into seven buildings in Colorado is dead, authorities say," Associated Press, June 5, 2004; "Armored Dozer Was Bad to Go," Denver Rocky Mountain News, June 25, 2004)


I think this one is false also. The news kept saying that he had a .50 cal but when they showed the rifle it actually was just an ordinary .30 cal. deer rifle. Something like a 30-06 or .300 winmag.



I have video attesting to the contrary.  When the police camera pans over the inside of the "KillDozer", you can see what appears to be an M82.  If anyone can host a video, I can show it.  It even has a cool soundtrack  Of course, many folks here have probably already seen it.  I think I got it off of one of the 1911 forums a while back.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:15:19 PM EDT
isn't a 12 gauge slug a .50?
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:25:41 PM EDT
I remember the Colorado case vividly. The perp DID fire his 50 outside the store. The casings on the ground in the news video were definately .50s (guys foot next to one for scale). The few witnesses they interviewed said they saw him shoot the 50. They also showed the SD squad and it was pretty tore up with LARGE entrance holes in the hood and windshield. IIRC the Deputy didn't even have time to get out of the car.

Nevertheless, the local news did not make the reporting out to be the usual "gun with a perp" story, and merely commented that the weapon was "big" and made "big booms". The story actually focused upon what a POS the perp was. Then again, this all happened before Colorado was infected with libs from Kali, so who knows what the media take would be if it happened today.

If the anti-gun types interpreted the 2 A the same way they interpret the 1 A, they would be arguing that firearms ownership is mandatory.

RIP Deputy Mossbrucker
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:26:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:
isn't a 12 gauge slug a .50?



No. It's closer to 3/4" or .729".

Click here....

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:28:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:
isn't a 12 gauge slug a .50?



I think the BRI sabots in 12ga were .50
My Rem 700ML and Beowulf are .50cals
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:33:23 PM EDT
i agree with AR15fan.  I've heard of the albertsons incident and we should try to cover stuff up and lie about it.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:39:54 PM EDT
Meh...some people won't get the memo and will still claim.

I didn't know about a .50 crime until this post.  I will start saying that there was a crime.

We want to show others that we are well-informed, and do adapt.  To the rest we are primitive lizard-brained people who enjoy shiny things and loud noises.  Image and PR is important in this ongoing struggle.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:44:21 PM EDT
Three -- the IRA used a smuggled 82A1 to kill a British soldier named Stephen
Restorick in 1997 in in south Armagh, Northern Ireland.

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:56:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 1:56:46 PM EDT by CRC]

Originally Posted By NeedMoreAmmo:
I remember the Colorado case vividly. The perp DID fire his 50 outside the store. The casings on the ground in the news video were definately .50s (guys foot next to one for scale). The few witnesses they interviewed said they saw him shoot the 50. They also showed the SD squad and it was pretty tore up with LARGE entrance holes in the hood and windshield. IIRC the Deputy didn't even have time to get out of the car.

Nevertheless, the local news did not make the reporting out to be the usual "gun with a perp" story, and merely commented that the weapon was "big" and made "big booms". The story actually focused upon what a POS the perp was. Then again, this all happened before Colorado was infected with libs from Kali, so who knows what the media take would be if it happened today.

If the anti-gun types interpreted the 2 A the same way they interpret the 1 A, they would be arguing that firearms ownership is mandatory.



RIP Deputy Mossbrucker www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_salute.gif



I believe Timothy Mossbrucker was taken out with an SKS BEFORE Albert Petrosky fired his .50 BMG.

CRC
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 1:57:28 PM EDT
The Branch Davidians did have Barrett .50 BMGS but apparently never fired them during the standoff.

CRC
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 2:08:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
I believe Timothy Mossbrucker was taken out with an SKS BEFORE Albert Petrosky fired his .50 BMG.

CRC



That is very likely, and the news reports did not elaborate which weapon downed the deputy. I was indicating that the 50 was used during the commission of a crime (multiple murder 1 in this case) and was fired at the squad at some point.

Nevertheless, NO firearm should be banned / regulated because of the actions of a few POS perps.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 2:18:46 PM EDT
i agree with AR15fan   ... we cannot stoop to the levels of the liberal anti-gunners by lieing.  We will simply say, "they have been used in very FEW crimes, and passing another law that will be ignored by criminals will only have an effect on law-abiding citizens."
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 2:22:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By SS109:
I don't believe he fired the .50 at Albertsons.


The police claim he did.



They did?  Or the news claims the police did?  Got a report handy?
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 2:25:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By GC456:
Who cares!  


I care that the NRA and gunowners look lke idiots when then keep hitting a talking point that is a lie.



Exactly.  We get frustrated when libs are shown the error in their logic and all they say is "who cares."

That is flawed thinking.

Truth is powerful. Use it correctly or it will be used on you!

Link Posted: 1/10/2005 2:27:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Us gunowners should try to be more truethful than the antis. we are better than them.


On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's grocery store in suburban Denver, Colorado, and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semiautomatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al," fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during his murderous rampage. ("Authorities Investigate Gun Sale: Rifle Used in Albertson's Slayings Wasn't Illegal," Rocky Mountain News, May 1, 1995)



Thanks for that info. I just read something about that today and asked the person who posted it for more as he didn't say what the situation was . just that one was used.
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