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Posted: 12/14/2003 8:15:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2003 8:23:48 PM EDT by bigern]
I'll keep this story as short as possible and ask that you add commentary that helps me see any mistakes that I have made and not thought of myself.

The wife and I were at the movie theatre and during several parts of the movie three 14-17 y.o. boys were coming in and out making asses of themselves and being loud.

I ignored them and they went away after about a half hour.

Later I get up to go take a whiz and they are by the door to our screening room trying to yank down the dang curtains on the wall.

I went to the lobby and informed the manager that there were 3 boys acting crazy in our screening room and then went to the restroom.

3 punks are now in the restroom overflowing a toilet.

I whiz and leave the restroom to see them getting tossed by another female employee, not the manager.

They put two and two together, and as they've seen me 3 times in 5 minutes and everytime they've been doing stupid shit and now they are gettin tossed, realize I'm the rat.

They start cussing at me and I tell them to shut the F up and to just go away. (first mistake)

I go back to the movie and 15 mins. later it over and my wife an I start to leave. I'm telling her about what happened and sure enough as we hit the lobby the 3 clowns are standing outside waiting for us.

I grab the manager and tell her to call the police and she says "we have 2 security guards who can walk you to your car". I agree to this. (mistake no. 2)

Now as we are walking to the car with 2 minders behind us, I see that the 3 clowns now have 5 more male teen friends and 3 girls with them, I'm giving the car keys to the wife, cel phone to the wife, and have unzipped my coat so I can reach my pistol faster if needed. (I have my Wa CPL).

We are parked on the side of the building and as we hit the corner of the building I turn around and the 2 guards are gone and now the pack of wolves are getting into a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I tell my wife let's hurry up and if anything starts to happen just lock yourself in the car and call 911.

Of course she doesn't like this idea so I have to spend a few seconds telling her to just do what I say.

Now as we hit the parking spot the JGC full of kids is coming down our lane and I get in and zip through the lot and circle back to the front of the theatre and park straing across some handicap spots, directly in front of the two rental cops.

I get out and get them to come over, tell them what has been going on as now I'm convinced the manager just said "walk these folks to their car". (mistake 3)

The JGC and load of punks stops short of where I am (I have been giving my wife instructions in this 30 second drive to call 911 but she can't get her fingers to work, run straight into the theatre when we get there but she argues with me because she thinks I'll hang out in the street or something, and a few other little things) and they survey the new situation.

2 of the original 3 get out of the JGC and start over to their vehicle, a Jeep Laredo, and sit in it.

They are more intent on continuing the situation.

I point them out to the 2 guards and order them (I've gotten to the point where I just wanted what I thought was necessary to be done and started barking out commands) to go get the tag number.

One gets the plate number while I tell the other one that it's important to keep those kids away from me because "they don't know what they are getting into and I don't want to have to shoot someone." I didn't threaten anyone because I know that's menacing in some places but I wanted the guard to see how serious this could turn out so they would start taking this more serious.

So the 2 punks drive off and we head back to the motel room we were staying in last night (happy birthday to my wife/way to kill the mood)

I see 3 glaring mistakes I made.

My intention once I saw the kids waiting for me was to not have a confrontation. I tried to stay away from them and just plain didn't want to have to do anything that would cost me heartache, money, sleep, freedom etc..

The first mistake was cussing at the kids. None of the following may have occurred If I hadn't thrown salt in the wounds. Maybe it still occurs maybe not.


Mistake 2 was leaving the theatre without calling the police/relying on the security guards to make things safe. If the kids were armed they could have just driven up and started blasting, guards or no guards. I should have just called 911 and waited for the police to show up, problem solved.


Mistake 3 was after making mistake 2, relying on the manager to tell the guards what was going on and not passing the info on myself. This lead to the guards thinking we were just some couple who were afraid to walk to our car in the dark.

Maybe you folks can tell me if I missed any of my mistakes and give me some advice on how to handle this better next time (please God no next time).

I've also decided to ditch my Keltec .40 and just go with my Taurus .45. I thought I could count on the Keltec since I tuned it and refined my technique to eliminate and FTF FTE problems but as I was considering actually having to use the pistol a bit of worry was in my mind. "Will it function properly? Will it stovepipe on me?"

So now I know I can't really count on it, at least I have a doubt and that's enough for me.

Thanks in advance folks.

And that was the short version!
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 8:56:26 PM EDT
You all lived so it worked out for ya. Don't let punk kids get you down, but also stay professional. Telling just about anyone to shut the fuck up NEVER helps. If it ever happens again, tell them you won't leave until security makes the kids leave. They could have easily kicked them out for what they did or even at that point kick them out for loitering.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 9:43:53 PM EDT
Was there another exit from the theater at the screen end, where you could have looped around to your vehicle without being seen? That's one idea, don't go where they might be waiting. Hey, you made it home (with a few more gray hairs) and no court to worry about. Although it would be gratifying on some level to improve the gene pool. Did they get your license number do you think? If no, you can now use their number to go make their lives a living hell.... [img]http://matthewbracken.web.aplus.net/bookcover.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 6:56:49 AM EDT
Thanks for the other exit idea Matt. I didn't really think the clows would be waiting for me so I didn't even consider leaving another way.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:11:49 AM EDT
you live, the punks live so the result works for me. life is not perfect. you can't foresee everything and what you do is in a large part how the situation unfolds. you may want to put 911 on the voice dial. remote locks/start/panic alarm for the car. get yourself and your wife some self defence training and get her a gun so she won't freeze again. two guns on your side are better than one. i wouldn't have mouthed off to the punks. i wouldn't have called the cops. if i felt like i was in danger enough to need an escort to my car i would have personally made sure those providing the escort were aware of my situation.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:36:58 PM EDT
Nobody got hurt = you won that one. FWIW ... you get my thanks, though ; you reminded me once again why I hate going to the movies. (that and $5 popcorn) Stay Safe
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 7:51:29 PM EDT
It sounds like you need to have a little talk with the wifey about stfu and listening (pretty please?) when a [s]potentially[/s] dangerous situation arises. From what was described, it sounds like her arguing cost some time and jeopardized both your and her safety. The good news is, not only have you learned from the experience, I and others who read it have at least picked up some information and possibilities to think about.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 6:42:43 PM EDT
My wife and I have a code word that only she and I know. It is a word that can be worked into a sentence that does not sound wrong just distinct. It means "Danger, shut-up, do what I say, follow my lead". Either of us can use the code word and have agreed that there will be NO ARGUING if the word is used. I have used this twice. Both times she did as instructed and both times we avoided potential problems. If your going to carry a gun carry OC (that's pepper spray for you civilians). It is nice to have a non-lethal stand off weapon for just this type of encounter. It is a lot easier to justify using OC than a firearm against an unarmed assailant. When attacked by a group of people, lethal force can be justified, it's just easier to justify the use of OC and hopefully it ends there. But remember, OC is not a replacement for a firearm, just another tool.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:11:33 PM EDT
Security guards at a movie theater? Where do you live? It would be difficult to second guess your decisions since we have the readers digest version. If you and the wife didn't get hurt, then you made the right decisions. I can relate to this because I hate going to the movies too because of the obnoxious jerks, and when I am annoyed, I let it be known. I had a similar incident a few years ago with no way out. I was lucky. I did the ol' "Okay. Who's first?" routine. I read them well enough to know there testicles were receding and they backed down. You're doing the right thing. Go over it in your mind. Figure out what you did right, and decide what you would do different next time and go over it with your wife.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 8:59:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WARDOG7366: Security guards at a movie theater? Where do you live? It would be difficult to second guess your decisions since we have the readers digest version. If you and the wife didn't get hurt, then you made the right decisions. I can relate to this because I hate going to the movies too because of the obnoxious jerks, and when I am annoyed, I let it be known. I had a similar incident a few years ago with no way out. I was lucky. I did the ol' "Okay. Who's first?" routine. I read them well enough to know there testicles were receding and they backed down. You're doing the right thing. Go over it in your mind. Figure out what you did right, and decide what you would do different next time and go over it with your wife.
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I don't live in that city (Tacoma WA) but was visiting my mom that day. The Tacoma Police are too busy giving themselves a rectal exam and imploding at the same time so they have security guards in the parking lot to keep the car prowls down. Thanks to everyone that had some input. I've told someone to Shut the "F" up twice in the last 11 years and both times I almost ended up in a fight so I guess I better make sure there is no third time. Just to be safe.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:54:00 PM EDT
One good decision you made was to get rid of the KelTec.
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 7:01:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Slickpilot: One good decision you made was to get rid of the KelTec.
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So I'm guessing you don't want to buy one?
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 11:59:20 AM EDT
If the Archangel Gabriel comes down while you're driving away and personally urinates in the eyes of the driver following you, and you get away - then the situation was a win. However it happens, no physical fight or tussle means you won. Egos have to take a back seat sometimes. You have to tightly define what a good outcome is, and however messed up it gets in getting to it - it's a win regardless of how you felt things could have been handled better. Someone who suggested having OC made a good one, you always have to have a less-than-lethal option. Here's my little story. I was working an offduty and out-of-jurisdiction security job at an organized rave. Forget that it was stupid, policy is against it for many reasons, but I did it anyway. It's 0400, I'm outside waiting with two young female patrons, they've called a taxi, and as soon as it gets there I'm back inside. A car comes through the parking lot, out jumps an absolutely huge fat guy, over six feet and over 300 pounds. He says, 'What the f**k did you call me?'. I've never seen the guy, clearly it was something they've been cruising waiting to find a victim for. So, carload of males - ugly big one confronting me. I've got my glock in a fanny pack, but nothing else. I say nothing, I never do when in that situation - it's not that it makes things worse - it's that it makes no difference, the language you use doesn't make any difference to today's thug. They're going to attack you no matter what you say, so nothing works for me. I'm pretty upset I don't have OC, pulling my gun is starting to make a little sense - but the last thing I want is an inquiry as to what I was doing down there at 0400. Besides, right or wrong, if I have to shoot someone nobody wins. What ends up happening is that one of the teenagers has her head about her, and she comes on to the guy, telling him to forget about me and offering him her phone number. It works. Did I want to do something to him? Yep! Was I out of sorts about it for a LONG time, Yep! But it represents a win in the sense that nothing bad happened to ANYBODY. Don't sweat it when the bad guys don't get some kind of punishment, they will eventually - just not tonight.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:24:31 PM EDT
When you're off duty, mind your own business. You and your wife could have easily been killed over something that does not even belong to you.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 1:02:05 PM EDT
My wife does the same thing in those rare situations. I don't know what it is, maybe women's lib, maybe stand by your man, maybe the female executive mentality that says that they have to be more macho than the men, maybe she thinks she's tough (she isn't), or whatever. Anyway, a note to you single guys, your wife WILL assume that you are an idiot.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:36:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bvmjethead: When you're off duty, mind your own business. You and your wife could have easily been killed over something that does not even belong to you.
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I'll take that to heart for when I'm a Police Officer. I'm not one yet. I guess I should have posted that at the top of the thread. I put this here because I knew you fellas would have answers that I couldn't have come up with. I was defining no physical confrontation as a win for me and my wife that night and I do consider that a victory. I just wanted some input as I think a disection of the events by people with vastly more experience than me is nothing but good. Thanks for the advice everyone.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 5:41:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By hardcase: My wife does the same thing in those rare situations. I don't know what it is, maybe women's lib, maybe stand by your man, maybe the female executive mentality that says that they have to be more macho than the men
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Yeah. I think she thought I was going to march down the drive of the theatre like it was main street or the OK corral or something.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 1:14:57 PM EDT
I agree with the head low and move through the objective to go home. Period! No confrontation, not swearing, just move through, until it is time not too, and then, you will know when that is. This is one instance that I say the CHL CPL or whatever the concealed license is called in your state is a mistake to rely on. Kids being asses will never stop, it is the danger kids you need to worry about. How to determine who is who is anybody guess. Good for you to get home alive and let them too. Don't get me wrong if they needed a good shootin or ass woopin, game on, but this whole thing was avoidable and I agree with the mistakes you pointed out! Minding your own business and maybe getting free tickets to come back and see the movie when the idiots are gone would have been viable too, but to tell the truth, the more I write about this, the more I realize, they would have pissed me off too!!! FUCK EM
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