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Posted: 9/26/2011 5:19:05 PM EST
Any of you guys use them? If, so, let me know what and where you got it from.

Also, what are the disadvantages to having them other than added weight?
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 5:33:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2011 5:34:42 PM EST by CCWinCA]
The armorer told me that the department doesn't support the use of hard plates because while they are more effective at stopping rifle rounds than just soft armor, they can also be dangerous. Apparently some handgun calibers will hit the plate and ricochet, possibly straight up into the neck or head depending on the angle of the wearer. Of course this is paraphrased third party opinion, so take it for what its worth.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 5:37:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By CCWinCA:
The armorer told me that the department doesn't support the use of hard plates because while they are more effective at stopping rifle rounds than just soft armor, they can also be dangerous. Apparently some handgun calibers will hit the plate and ricochet, possibly straight up into the neck or head depending on the angle of the wearer. Of course this is paraphrased third party opinion, so take it for what its worth.


I was wondering about that...
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 5:43:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By CCWinCA:
The armorer told me that the department doesn't support the use of hard plates because while they are more effective at stopping rifle rounds than just soft armor, they can also be dangerous. Apparently some handgun calibers will hit the plate and ricochet, possibly straight up into the neck or head depending on the angle of the wearer. Of course this is paraphrased third party opinion, so take it for what its worth.


You guys should document the refusal so if you guys ever have an active shooter armed with a rifle and one of you gets killed by a preventable injury, you can seek redress.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 6:08:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By CCWinCA:
The armorer told me that the department doesn't support the use of hard plates because while they are more effective at stopping rifle rounds than just soft armor, they can also be dangerous. Apparently some handgun calibers will hit the plate and ricochet, possibly straight up into the neck or head depending on the angle of the wearer. Of course this is paraphrased third party opinion, so take it for what its worth.


You guys should document the refusal so if you guys ever have an active shooter armed with a rifle and one of you gets killed by a preventable injury, you can seek redress.


Unless it's a 4-6 lb ceramic plate, it won't stop rifle rounds.

Trauma plates are designed to add extra layers over important places, to lessen blunt force trauma if the wearer is shot, hence the name.

If you use hard trauma plates, there is a possibility that any bullet that hits it will fragment, and 1 or more of those fragments could strike the wearer in an area not protected by the vest.

The hard plates will also spread out the blunt force trauma to the entre area of the plate, instead of a smaller area like the vest or a soft trauma plate would.

I would suggest soft trauma plates if you desire more protection from blunt force trauma, and are also concerned about riccochets or fragments that might result from a bullet striking a hard plate.

As far as active shooters, there are companies that make rifle plate "pouches" that can be worn over body armor, and quickly donned, if you are concerned about rifle fire during an event that has a high likelyhood of gunfire being exchanged. Some of the plate carriers also can be used as load bearing chest rigs. Handy to have in a true emergency, but not for routine wear.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 6:34:02 PM EST
For my IIIA vest, I wear a steel trauma plate that's about 6"x10" with a IIIA soft trauma panel in front of it. The weight difference is not noticable and it also helps keep the riccochet/spawl to a minimum.


There are also several varieties of special threat plates out there that offer extra protection. IIRC, the Protech IMPAC series has several plates that offer protection up to 12g slugs. The lady that fitted my vest consumes her life in protecting cops (literally, vests are her ONLY job at her company) and she swears up and down that they're the best on the market. She actually smacked me for not already having one in my old vest.


As far as rifle plates go, I have a set of US Palm plates in an external carrier for SHTF situations. Heavy, but (hopefully) effective.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 7:07:03 PM EST
I have some second chance K30 steel plates. thay come in a kevlar covering to catch any frag, but their not really supposed to stop anything INFRONT of the plate.
they are to deform and slow the projectile so that the soft armor can deal with it.
its rated for 12ga slugs, 44mag rifle rounds, .30 carbine rounds, and with any kind of distance they are supposed to stop
or "significantly reduce the wounding capacity" of 5.56 and 762x39.
Link Posted: 9/26/2011 7:49:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2011 7:59:51 PM EST by OLY-M4gery]
Originally Posted By J75player:
I have some second chance K30 steel plates. they come in a kevlar covering to catch any frag, but their not really supposed to stop anything INFRONT of the plate.
they are to deform and slow the projectile so that the soft armor can deal with it.
its rated for 12ga slugs, 44mag rifle rounds, .30 carbine rounds, and with any kind of distance they are supposed to stop
or "significantly reduce the wounding capacity" of 5.56 and 762x39.


That's a manufacturers claim, not an NIJ armor rating.

NIJ rates armor on it's tested ability.

Until the Zylon debacle no NIJ rated vest had ever failed to stop rounds it was rated to, in the real world.

Safariland IIIA vests of 20+ years ago, stopped 12 ga slugs, and .45-70 rifle bullets, which is far above their rated threat level.

So, I would take the K30 claims with a grain of salt.

––––––––––––––––––––––-ETA K30 label taken from an EE post

The label on the plate reads: Results of extensive ballistic testing indicate this k30 plate, when placed in front of any second chance soft armor, will stop the following rounds of ammunition: 7.62 x 33 Ball (US .30 Carbine) and all other .30 carbine commercial soft point ammunition – 12ga rifled slugs- .44 magnum carbine (18 inch barrel)- 9mm KTW and other 9mm Steel Jacketed Armor Piercing rounds. In some instances, a close range perpendicular impact from any of the above rounds will pass fragments through this insert. These fragments WILL be contained in the second chance ballistic panel behind this k30 insert. This k30 rigid insert will NOT stop the penetration of the 5.56 and other assault rifle cartridges as the 7.62 x 39 or 5.45 x 39.5 from perpendicular impacts as close range. Under field conditions, however, involving ranges of 200 meters and/or impacts on an oblique angle and/or rounds encountering vegetation or other objects before impact, this k30 insert will possibly stop these rounds, or significantly reduce their wound capacity.

The part in red is worded in such a way that it's impossible to disprove. It also really doesn't make any actual quantifiable performance claims.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 3:36:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Unless it's a 4-6 lb ceramic plate, it won't stop rifle rounds.


I thought thats what was being discussed when he said hard plates. You are right that those thin steel plates that go in the pocket of soft armor are simple "strike plates" that aren't rate for rifles. I'll review the thread again. Maybe I'm having alzheimers this week.
Link Posted: 9/27/2011 10:23:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By CCWinCA:
The armorer told me that the department doesn't support the use of hard plates because while they are more effective at stopping rifle rounds than just soft armor, they can also be dangerous. Apparently some handgun calibers will hit the plate and ricochet, possibly straight up into the neck or head depending on the angle of the wearer. Of course this is paraphrased third party opinion, so take it for what its worth.


That actually happened to a State Trooper here. Hit the plate and deflected into his neck.



R.I.P. Tpr. Miller.

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 4:43:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By CCWinCA:
The armorer told me that the department doesn't support the use of hard plates because while they are more effective at stopping rifle rounds than just soft armor, they can also be dangerous. Apparently some handgun calibers will hit the plate and ricochet, possibly straight up into the neck or head depending on the angle of the wearer. Of course this is paraphrased third party opinion, so take it for what its worth.


thats why I have a soft kevlar pack (I think it is 30 layers or so) infront of my hard titanium plate. If there is a richochett or the round fragments the soft plate will catch it on the way back out/up.

J-

Link Posted: 9/28/2011 1:32:42 PM EST
I keep a plate carrier in the trunk that I can throw on in about 10 seconds, right over my soft body armor. I've had call to wear them twice since I bought them 2 years ago, really the best plan is to just keep them for when you really need them, I couldn't wear them every day.

they're MaxPro level IV ceramic plates I got from US Cavalry.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 12:42:33 AM EST
I just stick with the steel front and back and have a soft plate on top to hopefully catch anything that fragments. As far as the rifle plates, we had a guy (new guy out of the academy) that showed up with them in his vest. After a few 90 degree days and 12hours in a patrol car he took them off. Sure we COULD get shot at by a rifle but around here were most likely gonna get killed by a deer in the road. I know you said other than the weight but to me that is the biggest negative... They are heavey, hot and really uncomfortable wearing in a car for 12 hours. I have never worn them in a concealed carrier, just in the ERT's external vests and that was unbearable while sitting in a car so I can only imagine what the concealable ones would feel like. I think the SHTF external carrier in the trunk would be more feasable. Yes, it will not be on you right then and be one more thing you need to grab before you go but like I said, I look at the odds. The rifle encounter odds FOR ME is low. YMMV
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 3:09:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By doc736:
I just stick with the steel front and back and have a soft plate on top to hopefully catch anything that fragments. As far as the rifle plates, we had a guy (new guy out of the academy) that showed up with them in his vest. After a few 90 degree days and 12hours in a patrol car he took them off. Sure we COULD get shot at by a rifle but around here were most likely gonna get killed by a deer in the road. I know you said other than the weight but to me that is the biggest negative... They are heavey, hot and really uncomfortable wearing in a car for 12 hours. I have never worn them in a concealed carrier, just in the ERT's external vests and that was unbearable while sitting in a car so I can only imagine what the concealable ones would feel like. I think the SHTF external carrier in the trunk would be more feasable. Yes, it will not be on you right then and be one more thing you need to grab before you go but like I said, I look at the odds. The rifle encounter odds FOR ME is low. YMMV


Kinda along with DOC and with some others. I wear a ceramic style rilfe plate in my outter vest I wear when I head out my arrest warrant squad. Chances are higher something will go SHTF doing that. On regular patrol we have different uniform and I wear the standard undervest. On patrol, I know I am more inclined to run then ever deal with a rifle threat. Had to run flat out several times, never seen a bad guy rifle in patrol. That said, I do carry my carrier with me on patrol with plates in case a call kicks out or is a Active shooter.

I do wear the steel trauma plate insert. I have heard about the "chance" of a reflected round, but never heard of it happening off a trauma plate. I admit, my worst fear is getting shot behind the wheel so I feel exspoded there. And that would be the most liklet scenario for catching a spalling in the neck. Have to think about that.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:13:37 AM EST
I have a set of Kevlar wrapped ceramic tricurves that I keep in my car and my external armor comes with a plate pocket that I can just pull open and drop one in if it's looking like a rough call. Otherwise I don't wear hard plates cuz they reduce mobility.
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