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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 11/16/2003 1:27:20 AM EDT
I'm a couple of years from retiring from the Army. I plan to build an indoor gun range with a gun shop also.

What would you guys like to see in this type of facility if it were in your area?

Location is still up in the air.

If you have a long answer, please email me at PutnamW@hotmail.com

Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 2:01:06 AM EDT
Just tagging this because I might be able to help.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 3:06:52 AM EDT
Decent air handling. You need to be able to efficiently remove smoke & fumes, and temp control is important. A local indoor range is pretty stuffy in the summer. Haven't been inside there on a real winter day yet (Like we get real winters in SC!).

Also, go heavy duty on the bullet containment. The local range charges $5 for pistols, but $10 to shoot a rifle because of how the eat up the backstop. Also, they don't allow FMJ, so I can't shoot my "budget" ammo in there.

Hope that helps. Good luck!
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 11:13:33 AM EDT
I currently plan to have a containment system that allows full auto fire up to 7.62, heat and air.

I'm debating whether to use lead free ammo only or go big bucks for a lead filtration system. Lead free ammo would generate additional income but limit customers to a few brands and types of ammo. An EPA approved filtration system is really expensive.

I'm looking at 25 lanes and enough floor space to allow law enforcement/military CQB training.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 11:43:19 AM EDT
I've only been to an indoor range a few times (because I have an outdoor one in my back yard). Besides the odd smell and really smoky air, my most vivid memory was seeing the bullet holes in the walls between shooting stations. I'm sure there's a story behind them, but I'm not sure I want to know!

I don't know how many times I see a student point their gun directly sidewise (at the person next to them on the firing line) to do a mag change.... In other words, I think a good bulletproof wall between firing stations would be nice.

You may want to consider an underground range with a gunshop aboveground. It would eliminate a lot of safety and noise concerns and keep your temperature in the range more consistent. Good luck!

Black Fox
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 12:15:50 PM EDT
The air handling is important, as has already been said. The local indoor range has a bunch of fans mounted to the ceiling that blow downrange to keep the gunsmoke down.

Also, don't forget to make sure there's good observation of the whole firing line. I'm sure we all know that there's lots of assclowns that show up at any range, and you have to keep an eye on them. Security cameras might be a good idea.

There's gun rental too. That's helpful for newbies who want to try lots of different guns but don't have a lot of gun nut friends. I think the local range charges like $10 an hour for using rental guns, which are mostly glocks.

That's about all I can think of right now.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 12:25:52 PM EDT
Air-handling system that has heating. The indoor place I goto gets FREEZING in the winter because of the air handling system.

Electronic target holders, as well as plates. check out www.lisc.net they got plate systems down range now.

Indoor range with a decent shooting distance. 50-100yds would simply be awesome (Remember, electronic holders, so you can go closer or further on a whim).

build the range with a good backstop, and allow rifle and shotgun shooting. This would be especially great if it's heated and 100yds, durring the winter months (I live in NY, if there was a place like that here, that's where I'd be going all the time).
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 12:52:01 PM EDT
Keep in mind that if you allow folks to shoot from any position other than a fixed single firing line, this will require additional bullet proofing and higher cost. If you don’t do this, you run the risk of a bullet getting out of your range!!

If you’re looking toward tactical type training, don’t forget to add blue lights, sirens, and an ability to progressively dim the lights.

If folks are going to be running around in front of the traditional firing line, some sort of non-slip flooring is a real good idea. A smooth concrete floor with a little unburnt gunpowder on it is real slippery!!

You definitely want target carriers on a metal rail, not a wire. They need to be turning.

Depending on the needs of your local LEA’s, you may also need right and left side barricades at each point. They’ll probably also want a control room for the lead range officer with the ability to control all of the targets.

Some sort of moving target is also nice.

An adjacent classroom is really nice.

At the risk of going totally off the deep end with my suggestions, a live fire FATS type simulator would be fantastic!!

Sadly, most of my suggestions will cause your costs to skyrocket!!

And, admittedly, I’ve just scratched the surface of things you need to think about.

If you haven’t done so already, folks you might want to contact:

www.caswellintl.com
www.actiontarget.com
www.patriotrange.com
www.snailtraps.com/ranges.htm

and, of course, the NRA!

Good luck!
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 2:53:12 AM EDT
So, where's your uber range going to be located so we can come visit!
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 5:51:45 AM EDT
blackwatertargets.com/index.html

Good steel and target stands.

An indoor club I belong to is going to compressed rubber backstop. They said it would handle 308 with no problem.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:14:30 AM EDT
For $49.95 plus shipping, you can order the NRA's guide to building ranges.

I *highly* recommend it- the book is actually a massive binder that weighs several pounds. Lots of good and solid information.

Not cheap, but your range won't be either.

Mike
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:29:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:
I currently plan to have a containment system that allows full auto fire up to 7.62, heat and air.

I'm debating whether to use lead free ammo only or go big bucks for a lead filtration system. Lead free ammo would generate additional income but limit customers to a few brands and types of ammo. An EPA approved filtration system is really expensive.

I'm looking at 25 lanes and enough floor space to allow law enforcement/military CQB training.




From a customer's standpoint, I say no way on the lead free.

The only lead free range here in Vegas went out of Vegas because they wanted way too much for the ammo.

I think it was like $22 for 50 rounds of .40 or something ridiculous like that.

The name of the range was "Nevada Pistol Academy".
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:39:06 AM EDT
One of the big complaint before my now-closed indoor range was noise from the neighbors. When the range was built, there was not any residential houses around that area, just a light industrial district. When the industries moved out, developers took over the land and put in homes, and the range noise was a source of complaints of many in the 'hood. The owners tried their best to mitigate the noise problem by putting in extra noise suppression and restricting nighttime shooting of magnum-type ammo after 10pm. The city didn't do too much because the range was their first. Another minor problem they has was every so often the owner would find a smashed up FMJ bullet in the parking lot, they went thru very painstakingly to be very sure that no bullets escaped, but some did. Very odd.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:01:48 AM EDT
Get this for your tax dollars. The only indoor range experience I have is from an Army indoor range built outdoors.

When I was in Camp Able Sentry, Macedonia, I lobbied the Area Support Group commander for the construction of a training range in Macedonia. At that time, we had to travel 2 hours into Kosovo to shoot.

Apparently the Army had a $300,000 indoor range from Action Target sitting in a warehousde at Camp Bondsteel, Kosovo. They purchased the range to build at Bondsteel but changed their mind. It sat ian a warehouse for about 3 years.

Well they built the range at Camp Able Sentry but built it outdoors. It looked pretty funny looking at this huge air filtration system on an out door range.

Here's the best part. Camp Able Sentry closed 3 months after I left and the Army just let the range be handed over to the Macedonians.

Thanks for the ideas. Location is probably going to be in a state that won't tax my retired pay.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:10:48 AM EDT
I would suggest before you spend this semi truck load full of money to visit some very successful range/gun shops. Ours went out of business but the owner was a real ass. Do your G2. Find out from other owners what to look for regarding where to put it. Competition, etc. etc. My .02 pesos.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:23:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2003 10:29:42 AM EDT by Dave_A]
In Milwaukee, we have some nice indoor ranges...

But NONE of them are longer than 50ft, and ALL are pistol-only...

The nearest outdoor range is 45min away, and is a members-only club. Besides, it get nasty cold up here during the winter, so outdoor shooting is a 'freeze-your-nuts-off' proposition for about 1/2 the year...

So what I'd like to see is a 100yd indoor range that can handle anything up to and including 30-06 full-auto.

Other than that, electronic target retrievers, and friendly employees...

Don't know about your area, but in Milwaukee we have a few abandoned buildings (strip malls, factories) that would make good range sites... That might be cheaper than actually building a new building, unless there are code/environmental violations...

P.S. I looked into this as a 'what if I wanted to go into business' type thing a while ago... There is one backstop company ('snail trap' or something like that) that integrates air filtration into their system... Also, avoid the 'rubber' backstop systems - from what I've read they're a PITA to maintain...
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 10:51:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/17/2003 10:52:02 AM EDT by Synister1]
Why some ranges rely on only rubber back stops is beyond me. Our local indoor uses compressed rubber. Mag And FMJ isn't allowed because they go clean thru.

Rubber cover over "2 deep" railroad ties would last alot longer as I doubt anything lighter then an RPG will make it thru 2 oak railroad ties.

And ties are cheap, The local RR sells them for $5ea.
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 8:49:14 PM EDT
The post where I'm stationed has an indoor 25 meter range that uses rail road ties along the walls to keep bullets inside. It is rated for 5.56 FMJ use. The target system is a huge 6" roll of paper that moves from right to left like a roll of camera film. The targets are displayed on the paper with an overhead projector. Shoot up the target and just rotate the paper a foot or so and keep shooting.

I haven't had the opportunity to see what backstop is used as it is hidden behind the huge paper.

I plan to locate in an area that could use an indoor range, hot summers, cold winters and in an area that does not have similar accomidations or services.

I figure to eliminate the competition by not building where there is any competition.

I would like to have at least a few lanes of 100 yards for rifle fire and sighting in for hunters.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 2:49:13 AM EDT
The indoor range I go to has a metal backstop angled at about 45 degrees that deflects the rounds down into a water trap.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:50:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
In Milwaukee, we have some nice indoor ranges...

But NONE of them are longer than 50ft, and ALL are pistol-only...

The nearest outdoor range is 45min away, and is a members-only club. Besides, it get nasty cold up here during the winter, so outdoor shooting is a 'freeze-your-nuts-off' proposition for about 1/2 the year...

So what I'd like to see is a 100yd indoor range that can handle anything up to and including 30-06 full-auto.

Other than that, electronic target retrievers, and friendly employees...

Don't know about your area, but in Milwaukee we have a few abandoned buildings (strip malls, factories) that would make good range sites... That might be cheaper than actually building a new building, unless there are code/environmental violations...

P.S. I looked into this as a 'what if I wanted to go into business' type thing a while ago... There is one backstop company ('snail trap' or something like that) that integrates air filtration into their system... Also, avoid the 'rubber' backstop systems - from what I've read they're a PITA to maintain...



Badger Sporting Goods (formerly Badger Guns and Ammo) on 43rd allows rifles except for .223, 7.62x39, and .50BMG. (Not their choice; insurance dictated that.)

Mike
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 8:15:47 AM EDT

Badger Sporting Goods (formerly Badger Guns and Ammo) on 43rd allows rifles except for .223, 7.62x39, and .50BMG. (Not their choice; insurance dictated that.)



That has got to be the dumbest fucking thing I have ever read.
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