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Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:35:55 AM EST
[#1]
I wonder if a tunnel rat in Vietnam would've agreed with you.
brownells
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:36:27 AM EST
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Krombompulos_Michael:
The Marine in the center agrees with you OP and disagrees with the title of your post.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/97684/EC8ABC1C-AE00-43B7-AD3C-C5A8363BB2D7_jpe-2611910.JPG
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It only shows brad Kasal holding a pistol while being carried out after being shot 7 times and wounded by a grenade. the story was he and other marines were going door to door in Fallujah engaging enemy. There is no story that says he was or was not using a rifle. So just because he got carried out with a pistol does not mean that is what he used. So I’m not sure that picture proves a point
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:37:18 AM EST
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Weren't you just hand wringing over "what gun for the beach thread" mom?

You remind me of me telling my son "Stop talking about Minecraft!" In the car
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By chmodx:


The shit that comes to some of you on Thanksgiving morning...
Weren't you just hand wringing over "what gun for the beach thread" mom?

You remind me of me telling my son "Stop talking about Minecraft!" In the car


I can't wait until May when those threads start popping up.  And the blow out kits for beach bags.  In case of an underwater incursion event at the Outer Banks....you know.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:37:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: dogsplat] [#4]
If Iever find myself faced off against Jerry Miculek at 100 yards and I have an M60 and he has a revolver with six rounds and no reloads, Imma run.


Of course, I would never piss Mr. Miculek off in the first place.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:37:59 AM EST
[#5]
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:38:02 AM EST
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Handguns have something like a 90% survival rate if the victim is quickly brought to a good hospital (or that was true decades ago when I read it)
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Not if I shoot 'em.  I'm a believer in anything worth doing is worth overdoing.

Kidding.  No really.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:38:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: LowBeta] [#7]
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:39:28 AM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:39:55 AM EST
[#9]
My buddy says:

"There's a WW2 PT story I read as a kid about a US marine or solider who was carrying a wounded guy down a trail by himself and used his .45 to kill several Japanese soldiers who ambushed him. I don't remember where it happened or when."
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:40:18 AM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amprecon:
I can't tell you how many times we've all heard it, pistols don't win wars and it's true alone, pistols don't. But I can't believe they are a completely insignificant tool for use in wars.
I'm just reacting the these shootings that have been taking place recently where the shooters have been using pistols rather than the dreaded "assault rifles".
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Fighting back with an orange from the produce dept or a candy bar from the checkout line never goes well !
JFC.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:40:43 AM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 53x11:
Pistols are hard to shoot well.   Be honest with yourselves, who puts in the work with a pistol to actually engage an active threat?   Who is good enough with a pistol to take on a guy with less training on a rifle at 25-50 yards?  Rifle wins 75% of the time.  

Your post counts are too high to be dry firing like you should be doing.
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Lol. Winning is about seeing first by being in the right place first but GD laughed at RustedAce when he said it's better to know how to maneuver than how to shoot.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:42:38 AM EST
[#12]
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Originally Posted By 44rdv4rk:

not at 3 ft.
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Originally Posted By 44rdv4rk:
Originally Posted By rmakak:
When a man with a .45 meets a man with a rifle, the man with a pistol will be a dead man. That's an old Mexican Proverb...and it's true.

not at 3 ft.

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Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:45:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: NothingBurger] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By STL_Nik:
Mike Day put in work with his pistol.  To be fair though most DEVGRU guys i've heard said they don't carry pistols. It's added weight with little reward.
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Is this sarcasm or have you seriously heard most DEVGRU guys say they didn’t carry pistols? I have a very hard time believing that. Basically, I don’t.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:47:36 AM EST
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By StraightShootinGal:
My buddy says:

"There's a WW2 PT story I read as a kid about a US marine or solider who was carrying a wounded guy down a trail by himself and used his .45 to kill several Japanese soldiers who ambushed him. I don't remember where it happened or when."
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Be nice to know.  
We still have Alvin motherfuckin' York.  The man, the legend, Alvin York.  My hero.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:48:24 AM EST
[#15]
The grizzled old Ranger was dressed in his best uniform and finest Stetson at the retirement barbeque with his 1911 cocked and locked at his side.

A little old lady walked up to him, pointed at his 1911, and said "Sir, do you know your gun is cocked?"

"Yes, Ma'am"

"But, Isn't that DANGEROUS?"

"Yes, Ma'am. It's a gun."

"Well, are you expecting trouble?"

"No, Ma'am. If I was expecting trouble, I'd have brought my Winchester."

"Oh, my!"
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:57:38 AM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dogsbody:
I think if you are in a war,engaged in combat,and you are relying on a pistol.  Something has gone very,very wrong
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Depends entirely on the combat and what the alternative weapons were.

When the Zulus got up close at Rourkes Drift, the Webley .455 was way better than the issue rifle.

Clearing a trench in WW1 ? A pistol was of more use than the rifles.

Clearing Vietcong tunnels ?

Link Posted: 11/24/2022 10:59:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: gunnut284] [#17]
If I know or suspect there will be a fight, I’m bringing a rifle if at all possible (if I can’t avoid going, I’m also going to bring friends with guns if possible too). The pistol is for when the rifle goes down/dry/lost/etc. The pistol is a lot more convenient and practical to carry around concealed during daily life when trouble isn’t expected but just in case.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:01:39 AM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vic_Crown:


Depends entirely on the combat and what the alternative weapons were.

When the Zulus got up close at Rourkes Drift, the Webley .455 was way better than the issue rifle.

Clearing a trench in WW1 ? A pistol was of more use than the rifles.

Clearing Vietcong tunnels ?

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WWI was over a Century ago.

Vietnam was about 50 years ago.

I have doubts anyone on this board will be clearing tunnels.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:02:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: DriftingArmed] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NothingBurger:


Is this sarcasm or have you seriously heard most DEVGRU guys say they didn’t carry pistols? I have a very hard time believing that. Basically, I don’t.
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No it’s serious. There are a bunch of interviews and stuff from operators that said they didn’t carry a pistol for a secondary. Instead they just carry extra ammo for their rifle. I can’t think of the names right now of anyone specifically off hand but I have seen a few of them say it. There were plenty of troops that did not have a pistol during gwot as well
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:02:28 AM EST
[#20]

They be handy for after mission debriefing and general cleanup...









Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:05:14 AM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:

No it’s serious. There are a bunch of interviews and stuff from operators that said they didn’t carry a pistol for a secondary. Instead they just carry extra ammo for their rifle. I can’t think of the names right now of anyone specifically off hand but I have seen a few of them say it. There were plenty of troops that did not have a pistol during gwot as well
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Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:
Originally Posted By NothingBurger:


Is this sarcasm or have you seriously heard most DEVGRU guys say they didn’t carry pistols? I have a very hard time believing that. Basically, I don’t.

No it’s serious. There are a bunch of interviews and stuff from operators that said they didn’t carry a pistol for a secondary. Instead they just carry extra ammo for their rifle. I can’t think of the names right now of anyone specifically off hand but I have seen a few of them say it. There were plenty of troops that did not have a pistol during gwot as well


Wow. Interesting.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:05:17 AM EST
[#22]
LOL.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:06:24 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:


WWI was over a Century ago.

Vietnam was about 50 years ago.

I have doubts anyone on this board will be clearing tunnels.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
Originally Posted By Vic_Crown:


Depends entirely on the combat and what the alternative weapons were.

When the Zulus got up close at Rourkes Drift, the Webley .455 was way better than the issue rifle.

Clearing a trench in WW1 ? A pistol was of more use than the rifles.

Clearing Vietcong tunnels ?



WWI was over a Century ago.

Vietnam was about 50 years ago.

I have doubts anyone on this board will be clearing tunnels.


OP was referring to COMBAT and WAR.

Whether or not pistols are enough for a citizens self defense in a peactetime environment is a totally different discussion.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:08:45 AM EST
[#24]
Ima gonna go throw my pistols in the garbage can.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:10:55 AM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:


WWI was over a Century ago.

Vietnam was about 50 years ago.

I have doubts anyone on this board will be clearing tunnels.
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Yep. And the only reason you would clear a tunnel with a pistol is because you can not crawl through that well with a rifle in one hand. Otherwise we would use a rifle. If I had a choice between rifle and pistol I would always pick rifle and find a way to make it work.  Except for one situation, which is needing to keep it concealed. That is where a pistol wins and why it is on me instead of a rifle.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:13:20 AM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Swampgrass:


This is what goes through your mind on Thanksgiving ?
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Originally Posted By Swampgrass:
Originally Posted By amprecon:
I don't know how many times I've heard it, that pistols are insignificant for use in combat. Pistols don't win wars, but damn if they aren't effective against civilians. If S ever HTF in my AO, I'll have a pistol on me.


This is what goes through your mind on Thanksgiving ?


Hey, some of us have strained relationships with our families so we have to plan ahead
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:14:36 AM EST
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NothingBurger:


Wow. Interesting.
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Yeah I wish I can old recall some of the names of the people in the videos. They were basically of the opinion that if their rifle went down they would fix it and get back in the fight and a pistol was not worth having for added weight or effectiveness because of their mission requirements. They all said it in a way that made some sense for their reasons.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:15:21 AM EST
[#28]
I'd say they have their place in times where it's not possible or feasible to carry a long gun. Even in a shtf scenario this may come about.

But if I'm able to carry a long gun I'd rather carry extra ammo for it than carry a handgun
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:17:43 AM EST
[#29]
I'll stick with a carbine in the very unlikely chance that I'll ever find myself in combat.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:18:51 AM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amprecon:
I can't tell you how many times we've all heard it, pistols don't win wars and it's true alone, pistols don't. But I can't believe they are a completely insignificant tool for use in wars.
I'm just reacting the these shootings that have been taking place recently where the shooters have been using pistols rather than the dreaded "assault rifles".
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It’s not true. Tom Hanks blew up a German Panzer with a 1911. I saw it!
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:19:35 AM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rmakak:
When a man with a .45 meets a man with a rifle, the man with a pistol will be a dead man. That's an old Mexican Proverb...and it's true.
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Should be a Polish proverb because it's fucking retarded.

The real answer is "it depends."  If you can't see that you are retarded as well.

Look into MOH recipient Master Sgt. Earl Plumlee's story if you want proof.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:19:59 AM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:

Yeah I wish I can old recall some of the names of the people in the videos. They were basically of the opinion that if their rifle went down they would fix it and get back in the fight and a pistol was not worth having for added weight or effectiveness because of their mission requirements. They all said it in a way that made some sense for their reasons.
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And if your failure happens up close and personal like, you're dead while you're fixing your failure.  I'll keep a pistol handy thanks. Disclaimer:  Not tier 1 snake eater, man killer, omgwtfbbq.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:20:17 AM EST
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Vic_Crown:


OP was referring to COMBAT and WAR.

Whether or not pistols are enough for a citizens self defense in a peactetime environment is a totally different discussion.
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He mentioned combat and war and then said if shit hit the fan in his ao he would have a pistol on him. Was that to mean that if the “insert enemy force” invaded and started going door to door he would just be ok with his pistol? Is that what he will be defending himself with? No rifle if given the choice? I hope not. I am not going into combat or to war with just a pistol if given a choice and neither would you
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:20:38 AM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amprecon:
I can't tell you how many times we've all heard it, pistols don't win wars and it's true alone, pistols don't. But I can't believe they are a completely insignificant tool for use in wars.
I'm just reacting the these shootings that have been taking place recently where the shooters have been using pistols rather than the dreaded "assault rifles".
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It’s a little early to be this drunk.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:20:43 AM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HammerHammer:


It's not true. Tom Hanks blew up a German Panzer with a 1911. I saw it!
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I seent it.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:21:58 AM EST
[#36]
On this glorious Holiday where we give thanks for the bounties of our glorious nation I am thankful…that if the SHTF I will have a rifle.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:22:34 AM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

It's a little early to be this drunk.
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What's early to you may be late to others.  Night shift.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:24:04 AM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By m4pointman:
And if your failure happens up close and personal like, you're dead while you're fixing your failure.  I'll keep a pistol handy thanks. Disclaimer:  Not tier 1 snake eater, man killer, omgwtfbbq.
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I wouldn’t disagree with you. But at the same time we are talking a group of operators in a fire fight. I would think they know how to cover each other and fuck up anyone trying to charge them even if one guys weapon goes down. Not the same as you or I by ourselves being charged at. I think that is the deciding factor for them versus us
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:24:36 AM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Deadtired:
Pistols don't win wars.  So if your goal is to win the war, you don't need a pistol.  

A pistol MAY help you win a fight.  Probably not a rifle fight, but maybe a fist/knife/bayonet fight.  So if your goal is to survive that fight, you may want a pistol.
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Agreed, pistols don't win wars. But they do and have changed history.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:26:35 AM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:

Yeah I wish I can old recall some of the names of the people in the videos. They were basically of the opinion that if their rifle went down they would fix it and get back in the fight and a pistol was not worth having for added weight or effectiveness because of their mission requirements. They all said it in a way that made some sense for their reasons.
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That's been MTO&E for decades
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:26:49 AM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

It’s a little early to be this drunk.
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:
Originally Posted By amprecon:
I can't tell you how many times we've all heard it, pistols don't win wars and it's true alone, pistols don't. But I can't believe they are a completely insignificant tool for use in wars.
I'm just reacting the these shootings that have been taking place recently where the shooters have been using pistols rather than the dreaded "assault rifles".

It’s a little early to be this drunk.

The hell it is!
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:27:14 AM EST
[#42]
They are best used against your own population as messaging. Might save you in some close combat situations. OP is right, pistols don’t win wars. Planes, bombs, artillery, troops, win wars.

As civilians go, God made men and Sam Colt made men equal.  ;-)
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:32:02 AM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By m4pointman:
And if your failure happens up close and personal like, you're dead while you're fixing your failure.  I'll keep a pistol handy thanks. Disclaimer:  Not tier 1 snake eater, man killer, omgwtfbbq.
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Originally Posted By m4pointman:
Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:

Yeah I wish I can old recall some of the names of the people in the videos. They were basically of the opinion that if their rifle went down they would fix it and get back in the fight and a pistol was not worth having for added weight or effectiveness because of their mission requirements. They all said it in a way that made some sense for their reasons.
And if your failure happens up close and personal like, you're dead while you're fixing your failure.  I'll keep a pistol handy thanks. Disclaimer:  Not tier 1 snake eater, man killer, omgwtfbbq.

I’m pretty sure that’s why most of them would say something like clearing a building by yourself is a death sentence…don’t do stuff by your lonesome
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:32:26 AM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DriftingArmed:

I wouldn't disagree with you. But at the same time we are talking a group of operators in a fire fight. I would think they know how to cover each other and fuck up anyone trying to charge them even if one guys weapon goes down. Not the same as you or I by ourselves being charged at. I think that is the deciding factor for them versus us
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I've done team shooting sports for about 30 years, and while I love and trust my brothers to have my back, I'll still keep that pistol and a mag or two as secondary, just in case they're dealing with something when Murphy is up in my ass.  The weight is negligible the piece of mind is priceless.  My opinion, Not an operator or cool guy.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:38:57 AM EST
[#45]
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:43:28 AM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chmodx:


The shit that comes to some of you on Thanksgiving morning...
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Tell this guy.



Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:45:02 AM EST
[#47]
World war one was started with a pistol.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:49:03 AM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Swampgrass:


This is what goes through your mind on Thanksgiving ?
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Originally Posted By Swampgrass:
Originally Posted By amprecon:
I don't know how many times I've heard it, that pistols are insignificant for use in combat. Pistols don't win wars, but damn if they aren't effective against civilians. If S ever HTF in my AO, I'll have a pistol on me.


This is what goes through your mind on Thanksgiving ?


LOL
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:49:43 AM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By m4pointman:
What's early to you may be late to others.  Night shift.
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Originally Posted By m4pointman:
Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

It's a little early to be this drunk.
What's early to you may be late to others.  Night shift.

Can’t drink all day if you don’t start early in the mornin!
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 11:51:56 AM EST
[#50]
Maybe lay off the eggnog for the rest of the day.
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