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Posted: 4/8/2002 10:15:13 PM EDT
I have read the threads, I could find, on the possible "pinning" of a collapsible CAR stock to make it non-collapsible. When people talk about this, what are they pinning the stock with? Cotter pins, pop rivets, screws, etc? This is probably a stupid question, but I really don't know what they mean. Can anyone explain this to me? Thanks, Eric
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 10:33:53 PM EDT
I don 't believe that BATF has approved any method of pinning a plastic CAR stock that uses a CAR length receiver extension.
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 10:37:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 9:59:33 AM EDT
BATF does not have to "approve" anything. BATF is not in the business of clarifying, it is in the business of finding violations. The law says collapsible stocks are what defines a bad gun. If the stock no longer collapses, then it is not, by definition, a collapsible stock. Liberal application of JB Weld will make a CAR stock not moveable. Now putting aside the question of whether the BATF has a secret solvent that will remove JB Weld (or any epoxy compound) without destroying the plastic stock, all these things come down to intent according to a reasonable person. While you may argue that a BATF agent is not reasonable, a jury will be. After all, a "permanently fixed" muzzle brake is not really permanent if it was once threaded. However, even the BATF has acknowledged that it is reasonable to assume with a pin and high-temp solder the intent is to make it "permanent". The usual definition of these things assumes that it cannot be adjusted without the use of tools. Apply the same thinking to a CAR stock, and you will see why many of us have used epoxy with confidence. Besides, after all these years, how many people have been prosecuted for having a JB Welded CAR stock? A big fat zero. Because if there was a court ruling on it, we would have all the guidance we need. Madkiwi
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 11:59:06 AM EDT
Yup, that's why just about all manufacturers submit samples to BATF for an opinion as to whether or not the product is legal. To my knowledge, BATF hasn't approved any method of fixing anything in place using adhesives.
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 12:18:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 12:31:33 PM EDT
Dave_G Findings and opinions of the BATF have been issued as guidelines only, and usually come with disclaimers as to their legality. Kurt of Kurt's Kustom Firearms sells a muzzle brake that looks like the one sold by Wilson Combat, but he has not submitted it to BATF for approval. Wilson has submitted theirs. Does that make Kurt's illegal? I don't put a lot of faith either way into bureaucratic rulings that have no legal standing. If a stock is not collapsible without heating it with a blowtorch for 30 minutes, pouring solvent in it and clamping it in a vice while banging on it with a ball-peen hammer, then it is not collapsible. Any argument to the contrary doesn't pass the laugh test. Madkiwi
Link Posted: 4/10/2002 10:15:36 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies. I have read the other threads and understand that there could be a lot of interpretation in the laws. I was just interested in what exactly people were referring to when they said they would "pin" a stock. Eric
Link Posted: 4/11/2002 2:59:39 PM EDT
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