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Posted: 5/7/2004 3:04:40 PM EST
First, some background.

I am in charge of a design-build project at work, which means that, in this case, the architect works for my company; a general contractor. His electrical engineer, to date, has been for shit. Drawings suck, has no clue about constructibility, systems, building code, etc. I actually had to tell the elect. engineer where to place some equipment because they are too incompetent to figure it out on their own. I have made it very clear to everyone involved in the project my feelings on the elect. engineers, in person, on the phone, via memo, and over email.

Today the arch. sends me an email, requesting the information that I gave the elect. engineer. I replied that it's on their drawings, and that he has their drawings. I expounded a bit to say that the only reason I ever got involved was because they were/are incapable of doing it themselves. A few hours later he sends out a bulk email to my boss, my employees, and the elect. engineers to say that I'm being "silly". Silly? WTF? Who the hell says "silly" in a business email? And what kind of gelding sends out an email when they get offended and doesn't call a person up and be a man about it?

As soon as I got the email I called up the little punk to find out what he was so wound up about, and he hid! He told his secretary to put me into his voicemail so he could hide and find out my tone first. Are you kidding me? When he finally called back, he pitched a little fit about the fact that I keep bringing up that the elect. engineers suck. I pointed out that since nobody seems to be keeping an eye on them, I must take it upon myself to do so. He started in about how I was insulted, to which I replied that I was simply calling to find out what his problem was, I wasn't insulted. At this point he gets very curt and says "fine, I won't ever ask you for help again", and refuses to discuss it any further.

It boggles my mind that someone that comes to work in a pair of pants every day and not a skirt can act like such a little girl. I'm still not offended or insulted. I honestly just sat there and shook my head in awe. It's a shame that in a male-dominated industry like construction I still have to deal with this kind of crap. I saw a line this afternoon that I really should have used on him on the phone: "it's a feeling, you'll get over it".

Anyway, I think on Monday I'm going to call him up and try to take him to lunch if he'll go and if he's calmed down a bit. I think he might be past the point of no return though.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:11:17 PM EST
I use to get guys like that all the time

Don't want to hear it from Non-licensed non-degree construction kind of guy --only Arch Engineer etc etc crap

Later when I got my doctorate all that crap stopped

Funny it is the same stuff my father taught me in the construction trades when I was in High school

Not a bit of common since from these guys

Plans suck usually because they use drafter and the engineers are lazy asses and don't want to check em or they are on tight budgets and refused to thoroughly check them

Little weasel tell em be a man

probably doesn't own any guns either

probably is too busy watching Christopher Lowell on new interior design ideas...
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:17:27 PM EST
The nice part about law is that even though lawyers gossip like little bitches, and take law suits as chance to go on the rag with each other even if men, the women in the law office (secs and paralegals) spend so much time dragging each other down and gossiping about one another that I can get my job done in peace and with decent help (because they shut up while you are near their cubes).
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:22:41 PM EST
I think this whole thread is just, well...silly
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 5:23:47 PM EST
If you don't learn the delicate art of office etiquette and backstabbing skills, your gonna be fired.

Are you really that disconnected from office people?
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:08:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Are you really that disconnected from office people?



Office people are fucking pathetic. I've been stuck in my corporate office now for the last 4 months, and I'm really starting to understand all those office shootings from a few years ago.

Construction is an industry of men. We have women in the corporate offices to answer phones and do support work. The few men that do work in the office are around these women so much that they start acting like them. I swear some of these guys are on the rag once a month the way they act.

This particular architect is an outside firm that we hired, so with him I don't know what his particular problem is. Unfortunately for him I have an architecture degree, so I know his job just as well as him, if not better. It's this pathetic little-girl bullshit I can't, and likely never will, figure out. He can either nut up and be a man, or he can whine like a little bitch. I think it's pretty clear which route he's chosen to take.

I'll be back in my jobsite trailer on Monday, where I can interact with the field guys more and act like a human being instead of some paperwork punk. In the field you can be screaming at a guy to get his work done one minute, and by the afternoon be heading out to get some beers together. Office sissies will never understand that.

If my choices are work in an office with the sissies, or out in the field where the real work gets done, I'll take the field anyday.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:22:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Silly? WTF? Who the hell says "silly" in a business email? And what kind of gelding sends out an email when they get offended and doesn't call a person up and be a man about it?



Welcome to Corporate America, my friend...

Actually, the word "silly" is not a bad one in corporate e-mail, but it does toe the line. As for the guy whining on e-mail, it's called playing the political game and having it documented.

Beware of this asshole.



Hell, where I am right now I already got turned into HR because I was checking my ARFCOM e-mail account (on MY computer, BTW), and they apparently didn't like the AR logo.

Pussies....
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:35:41 PM EST
There end up being lots of pissing matches here about petty stuff. I ended up getting scrwed over at a decent job becuase I didnt want to be hang out and watch football and shit with my coworkers, this being one of the meany things that helped get me in the fucked up place Im in.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:38:21 PM EST
He sounds gay to me.

Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:52:03 PM EST
Ban him
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:01:59 PM EST
You come here to complain about coworkers, but if someone complains about others in the Team Forum it's not ok.

Example
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:03:25 PM EST
This is funny. I roofed houses while in college and once got my ass chewed severely by an architect because we could not roof in the chimney on a new house he had drawn. We were supposed to roof in the chimney and then the carpenters and brick guys would come in and actually build the chimney. Well the roof came up around the chimney at like 8 different angles and it simply could not be done. After explaining this to my boss, he called the builder, who called the architect, who promptly told us the stupid roofers were full of shit. After he showed up on the jobsite with plans in hand and we all reviewed them together, it turns out the chimney really wasn't incorporated into the plans. It just sorta stopped right there at the roof. The look on his face was priceless when he realized the framers had built exactly what he had drawn up and it wouldn't work.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:25:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By 455SD:
This is funny. I roofed houses while in college and once got my ass chewed severely by an architect because we could not roof in the chimney on a new house he had drawn. We were supposed to roof in the chimney and then the carpenters and brick guys would come in and actually build the chimney. Well the roof came up around the chimney at like 8 different angles and it simply could not be done. After explaining this to my boss, he called the builder, who called the architect, who promptly told us the stupid roofers were full of shit. After he showed up on the jobsite with plans in hand and we all reviewed them together, it turns out the chimney really wasn't incorporated into the plans. It just sorta stopped right there at the roof. The look on his face was priceless when he realized the framers had built exactly what he had drawn up and it wouldn't work.



When I tried to work as a carpenters assistant we were building this house an architect had designed for himself. Plans for his house had gaps over a foot long and nothing lined up. That job got really messed up.

When I was an NDT inspector I scrapped tens of thousands of dollars worth of custom parts that had trap points in them.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 7:30:28 PM EST
You're right. He's a shitty engineer. Good engineers listen to the guys out there building/running their systems, just like good officers listen to their NCOs. Eventually this will reach someone who has been around a while and that engineer will get his ass chewed off.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:03:50 PM EST
Offices SUCK.
The real communication is nearly nonexistant, like who is moving in and who is moving out, and when.
However, the administrative assistant lets me know LOUD AND CLEAR when I haven't turned on all the lights in the lobby!
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:16:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:
You come here to complain about coworkers, but if someone complains about others in the Team Forum it's not ok.

Example



CHECKMATE
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 8:50:10 PM EST
Incompetent engineers is endemic in the electrical industry. I have been an electrician for ten years now. I have worked on everything from single family dwellings to water treatment facilities.

As a general rule drawings are only used as a rough plan. A point to start from. Nothing is ever complete, or 100% correct on them. Many time equipment is to large to fit in a particulate area, or is under sized to the point of overload the instant it is started.

One particular job jumps into my head, The print called for a 700 amp service. It was to supply 15,000 square foot country club. With two roof top hvac unites, a full kitchen, full bar, game room, well, ect.,ect. Be for we even ordered the equipment the engineer was told it would not be large enough to supply the entire load of the building. I'm the engineer your the electrician we were told. So we ordered and installed what was called for. Guess what it wasn't large enough. We had the pleasure of removing the under sized service and installing a larger one. Which had just enough capacity to do the job, no room for expansion. All at the cost of the engineering firm. I don't believe they made a good profit on this job. But I did.

Like I always say the job ain't done right until its done twice.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:47:28 PM EST
Norman 74,
I feel for you, I remember what it was like from when I worked in mining,(much like construction) we always got a few 'Nancy boys' that couldn't 'hack it', they spent their time stiring the shit instead of working.

They never lasted long, once the crew caught on to their agenda they would get the cold shoulder and often be left to work alone, in mining that is both difficult and dangerous, that was usually enough to let them know they were not welcome. If that didn't work they were usually just toid out right to leave or suffer the consequences, by that time they were a thorn to Managment so they had no credibility there and got no help.
Some people just don't have any business doing the jobs they have and as a result they do it poorly.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 10:55:58 PM EST
DigDug's personality chart:

Electrical Engineer = Know-it-all-geek with big chip on shoulder
Architect = whiny little bitch

These are just generalizations, but are 99.9999% correct.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:13:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
If you don't learn the delicate art of office etiquette and backstabbing skills, your gonna be fired.



Wow. The first time I have ever agreed with an AZ-K9 post.

I know what you are going through. I come from a hands on background in the construction industry. I'm the first in my family to break into the management end of construction, and have been on both sides of the operation. Sure, you can yell and scream at certain subs on the site who are not meeting critical scheduling or have quality deficiencies. When communicating with the white collar end of the industry, you have to play by an entirely different set of rules. It is imperative that you share your concerns about specific design flaws, but you must allow each participant in the process the opportunity to make those changes and tweaks to their plan(s). It doesn't happen at the snap of your fingers. Every participant in the process should have an established reputation. Well respected in the industry, or considered a joke. Go pissing up the wrong engineer's leg, and you will be back to digging a ditch before you know it. Keep on being hard to deal with, and you will be considered the joke of the project. Every person involved has the potential to make or break your project budget and schedule. For that reason alone, you have my empathy. You have to deal with these people on their terms though.

From reading most all of your work related posts over the past year or so, I think you may be more suited to a superintendent position. You can show your ass on a daily basis, and get away with it. The intrinsic rewards would be there for you, and if your company has a decent bonus program you could walk away from each project with a big grin on your face. Either put your boots back on and get out there in the field, or learn to deal with these people. Like it or not, It's all politics.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:50:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:

Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:
You come here to complain about coworkers, but if someone complains about others in the Team Forum it's not ok.

Example



CHECKMATE



Bulshit.

The sissies that run to the team forum screaming aren't wishing to discuss anything. They're little bitches that can't handle themselves with a poster on an internet board and/or want to show off for a bunch of gun-nerds that they too found a troll .

This architect is that exact same type of passive agressive bitch that runs to the team forum. It would be one thing if I posted "he called me silly and I sat in my chair and cried" like the "trollhunters" in the team forum. I didn't do that. I nutted up and acted like a man and called him on it as soon as I got the email. I'll also be heading to his office on Monday to bury the hatchet, one way or another. Your typical team member would wet his pants if he thought he might actually encounter one of his trolls in a real life face to face situation.

SW, when you're actually old enough to run with the big boys, and earn yourself a real paycheck, and are responsible for something larger than figuring out if the nice lady would like fries or onion rings with her #4 then we can talk. Until then carryon worrying about which zit to pop today and why that pretty chearleader won't talk to you.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:54:00 AM EST
I think you bitch and whine to much Norman74.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:56:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Bulshit.

The sissies that run to the team forum screaming aren't wishing to discuss anything. They're little bitches that can't handle themselves with a poster on an internet board and/or want to show off for a bunch of gun-nerds that they too found a troll .



How are your co-workers able to discuss this with you on this post Norman? Did you e mail them a link?

To be fair and to get both sides of the story I really think you should send this guy the link.

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:59:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

SW, when you're actually old enough to run with the big boys, and earn yourself a real paycheck, and are responsible for something larger than figuring out if the nice lady would like fries or onion rings with her #4 then we can talk. Until then carryon worrying about which zit to pop today and why that pretty chearleader won't talk to you.



Now, it is saturday and I do have my Doctors hat on, so I am pretty sure that I can say with 100% accuracy that Norman has poor people skills.

This may take a few sessions...call me first thing Monday morning for an appointment.

Or you can email me.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:00:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cope:
From reading most all of your work related posts over the past year or so, I think you may be more suited to a superintendent position. You can show your ass on a daily basis, and get away with it. The intrinsic rewards would be there for you, and if your company has a decent bonus program you could walk away from each project with a big grin on your face. Either put your boots back on and get out there in the field, or learn to deal with these people. Like it or not, It's all politics.



I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately many construction companies, and mine in particular, think that only some 50 year old ex-sheetrocker or ex-carpenter is capable of being a super. In most cases having the technical hands-on skills is a distant third to knowing how to talk to the subs and knowing how to logically organize a job. The talking and organizing are inherent traits, not learned skills.
The other problem is the ceiling that you reach professionally by being a general super. There really is no room for advancement. You'll get your 6% raise each year or so, and often some pretty good bonuses, and generally a work truck & gas card, but that's really it. As a 29 year old project manager I'm making about the same money as many of the general supers in my company. They get a gas card & a truck, but I'm bucking for a gas card & a car allowance (things I know PMs in many other companies get) so that should just about even it out. I just need to train my assistant PMs to take on the paperwork aspect of the project so I can actualy manage the work and not have to manage the pink-colar bitches.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:06:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By norman74:
Bulshit.

The sissies that run to the team forum screaming aren't wishing to discuss anything. They're little bitches that can't handle themselves with a poster on an internet board and/or want to show off for a bunch of gun-nerds that they too found a troll .



How are your co-workers able to discuss this with you on this post Norman? Did you e mail them a link?

To be fair and to get both sides of the story I really think you should send this guy the link.

Sgtar15



Do try and pay attention. I realize it's early out there for you and you're getting old and all....

He doesn't need to discuss it on this post. We discussed it on the phone yesterday, and we'll be discussing it in person on Monday. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the generalities of office bitches and snitches, and for me to get some insight from other posters into the pink-colar world that I'm not familiar with. Many of the above posters have made excellent posts that I've been filing away in my brain for future reference.
Troll hunters don't want to discuss or learn anything. They rarely if ever have actually confronted their little pet troll, not even on an anonymous web board, let alone via phone or in person. I honestly can't see inside the mind of the "troll hunter" and the motivation for it baffles me, but it seems to be a combination of wanting to show off for a bunch of guys on a web board, and not being able to deal with a troll on said web board.

Real life vs. internet life. I realize many of you haven't been able to separate the two, often from a lack of the former, but do try.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:08:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Norman has poor people skills.



Now if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black... haha.

Thanks sgtar15, that genuinely gave me a laugh.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:16:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Norman has poor people skills.



Now if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black... haha.

Thanks sgtar15, that genuinely gave me a laugh.



The reality is this Norman, office means people skills. I spent a few years in management and I learned people skills meant smiling at the boses while thinking they where full of shit, then I would do things my way. This worked as long as I made money for the company.

With this guy I would document everything....document when you pee if you have too, but document everything!!!

With asstants, it's the same as dealing with children. You have to lead them by the hand, sometimes everyday. And if you give them a list of 10 things to get done, they will only do 5-7 of them. SO make your to-do list much longer, over load her with work if you have to. This also tends to keep them quiet.

Good luck, and I mean that! Because you're kind of an ass and must be hard to work with.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:44:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

The reality is this Norman, office means people skills.


I'm beginning to see that, although I'll never understand it. Since when have people started going to work for social and emotional gratification? I'm there to work. If someone else isn't, I call them on it, and then upper management comes down on me for being mean. This is something I truly truly do not understand. My brain must just be wired differently. I am far from being a "company man" and all hoorah for the company, but goddamn I expect to get my project done on time and under budget, and I expect everyone else to have that same goal. Unfortunately in today's workplace it appears that the only goal anyone has is to get all the paper off their desk. Nobody seems to get the bigger picture. They want to do their work, nothing more nothing less. Regardless of how fast or slow the machine needs to run, they are only going to turn their cog at a given speed, no faster no slower. But if you point out to them that their cog doesn't turn fast enough, heaven help you!

Every day I empathize more and more with the characters in Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. I really do sit there awestruck when someone gets "offended" at work. It's work goddamnit! The only way to get offended at work is to not do your job, and get called on it. Where in the constitution does it say that you have the unalienable right to have feelings at work?


you're kind of an ass and must be hard to work with.



Have you been talking to my assistants?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:46:32 AM EST
Value Added Personnel=employees that physically touch the product and can continue to produce for a certain amount of time with out the existence of Non Value Added Personnel.

Non Value Added Personnel=employees that administrate, plan, manage, and engineer for the Value Added Personnel and can be removed from the project completely without impacting production for a certain amount of time.

VAPs think all NVAPs are office goobers and NVAPs think all VAPs are knuckle draggers.

Pick a side. Choose wisely.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:21:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Value Added Personnel=employees that physically touch the product and can continue to produce for a certain amount of time with out the existence of Non Value Added Personnel.

Non Value Added Personnel=employees that administrate, plan, manage, and engineer for the Value Added Personnel and can be removed from the project completely without impacting production for a certain amount of time.

VAPs think all NVAPs are office goobers and NVAPs think all VAPs are knuckle draggers.

Pick a side. Choose wisely.


I guess that I'm more of an NVAP in title, with the attitude of a VAP.

And don't forget, if the company is woefully short on qualified NVAP, then losing one most certainly does impact production.

Unfortunately I am never going to be happy in either role. I'll never be happy as a VAP taking orders from the pencil-pushers, and I'll never be happy as an NVAP having to work with the pencil pushers. Not to mention the reality of who usually gets paid more, at least in construction.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:31:18 AM EST
The way I see it, you've got two choices. Win the powerball and walk away from all that or start your own company and be THE MAN.

You are the rare individual that "get's it" and has common sense in both aspects of the work force. You've had your hands dirty and you've been involved in the planning. Good luck and try not to have a stroke.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:40:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
start your own company and be THE MAN.


This is exactly my goal, and what keeps me plodding along with these people every day. I want to learn every aspect of the business that I can so that I can leave and do it better, smarter, faster, and cheaper than the company I work for now.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:46:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Unfortunately I am never going to be happy in either role. I'll never be happy as a VAP taking orders from the pencil-pushers, and I'll never be happy as an NVAP having to work with the pencil pushers. Not to mention the reality of who usually gets paid more, at least in construction.



Sounds to me like you need to focus on a specific scope of construction, and start your own business. That's the only way to do things your way. Unless you work your way into a situation like I have developed. Another option would be to change GC companies.

I am in the Metal Framing, Drywall, Stucco, Insulation, and Painting business. We are a smallish company, with an average of 30 employees. I am the only Estimator/Project Mgr. in the company. Our gross volume over the last five years has averaged $1.25 million. I currently have over $800k worth of signed contracts in my files for work that has not begun, and still bid work weekly. I work from my home office, and pretty much do as I please. I don't own the company, but the owner is great to deal with. He has been in the paint business for 30 years, and will be retiring soon. His daughter takes care of the administrative duties. When he hired me, I brought all the other scopes of work with me. The owner is more of a "VAP". Along with everything else, I land the paint work. He manages how the painting gets done as he works alongside his painters, and that's it. I am 100% responsible for all the other scopes of work. Hiring, Firing, Submittals, Materials Purchasing, Scheduling, Equipment, Safety, and the most important aspect; brown nosing the customer/GC. Once my boss retires, I already have the employee base and customer contacts to step right into ownership. Funding for the venture is only a phone call away. Every man on my payroll will gladly go with me. After all, I hired them and deal with them daily. My boss couldn't put half of their faces with the name on their paychecks if his life depended on it. I talk to my boss a few times a week, and maybe see him face to face once or twice a month. If I had to go into an office to work every day, I would go nuts. I can't imagine a better scenario to be in.

In a previous post, you stated that your company only believes in placing seasoned former drywallers or carpenters in their Super positions. In this case, you may have is to look for another GC company. Me, as a subcontractor in my mid 30's, go into many GC offices on a regular basis to pick up drawings, discuss budgets, etc. The climate in each company is ever so slightly different. The key difference for their employees is the various philosophies on profit sharing. While I have developed great relationships with several older Project Mgrs., I am constantly catering to the organizations that employ younger PMs. The long term relationships are the ones I am after. Even if they go to work for a different GC, they will still call me to quote their work. Anyway, the Super is the one guy on any project who has the most ability to make or break a job. The Super is the guy who makes sure all the other subs are doing their part every single day. It only takes one key sub to screw up the entire project, which costs everyone involved. A shitty, underpaid Super will let this problem drag on until his PM has to get involved. So, a quality Super really has pull when in the right organization. A good PM will have quality Supers under him, and then let them do their job. I know of many Supers who make more money than their superiors, simply because they can get the job done. Superintendent may not be as glamorous as having the title of Project Mgr. However... If you have the skills to successfully complete a $20 million dollar project that comes in at 5% profit, your slice of the pie is a nice one if you are working for the right company. Once you get into those size projects, the Super requires just as many, if not more, people skills as the PM to be successful. A smart company owner will find quality employees, pay them well, and then go shooting. :)

Not sure why I just wasted 30 minutes sharing this stuff with you, but I hope you find something useful in my ramblings. One last thing. Go buy this simplistic bookLeadership and The One Minute Manager, and thank me later. I'm headed outside to do some bush hogging.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 8:03:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:

Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:
You come here to complain about coworkers, but if someone complains about others in the Team Forum it's not ok.

Example



CHECKMATE



Bulshit.

The sissies that run to the team forum screaming aren't wishing to discuss anything. They're little bitches that can't handle themselves with a poster on an internet board and/or want to show off for a bunch of gun-nerds that they too found a troll .



You sure? I've seen plenty of actual discussions about it. Usually it is everyone agreeing that so-and-so is a troll, but when people complain about people at work people usually jump on agreeing that the people complained about are in fact idiots, assholes, etc.



This architect is that exact same type of passive agressive bitch that runs to the team forum. It would be one thing if I posted "he called me silly and I sat in my chair and cried" like the "trollhunters" in the team forum. I didn't do that. I nutted up and acted like a man and called him on it as soon as I got the email. I'll also be heading to his office on Monday to bury the hatchet, one way or another. Your typical team member would wet his pants if he thought he might actually encounter one of his trolls in a real life face to face situation.



Yes, I'm sure everyone who finds a troll cries and never calls them on being a troll.

Besides, you're obviously forgetting that calling them out on being a troll in an open forum isn't the best way to deal with it. Trolls are seeking attention, if you give them that attention, are they going to suddenly leave?



SW, when you're actually old enough to run with the big boys, and earn yourself a real paycheck, and are responsible for something larger than figuring out if the nice lady would like fries or onion rings with her #4 then we can talk. Until then carryon worrying about which zit to pop today and why that pretty chearleader won't talk to you.



Nice personal attack skills. Perhaps this is why people at work (i.e., real world) can't deal with you?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 8:20:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
start your own company and be THE MAN.


This is exactly my goal, and what keeps me plodding along with these people every day. I want to learn every aspect of the business that I can so that I can leave and do it better, smarter, faster, and cheaper than the company I work for now.



I know this sounds mercenary as hell (and I would never suggest feigning true friendship) but remember how valuable friendly associations can be in any business. You never know how much some dumb shit's statement "Norman74? Solid guy." may be worth to you 2 years from now. Be careful. Trying to "win" some pissing match at work is just as silly (sorry) and eventually much more costly than seeking social and emotional gratification there.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 9:14:26 AM EST
I work in an office full of spineless whiners. The last one took exception when I told him that his "thinking out of the box" was "thinking out of his ass" and not a license to endanger lives or the investment in the project - everything that comes out of that box doesn't merit staying out.

I can't call it "pussification" at work, but I have been describing the "feminization" of the male worker and its danger to our economy.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:17:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By Pangea:
start your own company and be THE MAN.


This is exactly my goal, and what keeps me plodding along with these people every day. I want to learn every aspect of the business that I can so that I can leave and do it better, smarter, faster, and cheaper than the company I work for now.



I know this sounds mercenary as hell (and I would never suggest feigning true friendship) but remember how valuable friendly associations can be in any business. You never know how much some dumb shit's statement "Norman74? Solid guy." may be worth to you 2 years from now. Be careful. Trying to "win" some pissing match at work is just as silly (sorry) and eventually much more costly than seeking social and emotional gratification there.



I guess part of what gets me is that I don't see it as a pissing match at all. I have a job to do. One of our team members (the elect. engineer) has shown that they are incompetent at doing their job. To me, the only way to keep them at least remotely on track is to remind their supervisor (the architect) as often as possible that he needs to keep an eye on them. Every time I stop hounding, they get off track. Apparently the architect is taking all of this personally, where as I'm just trying to get the job done. I only posted here because his attitude and response truly boggle my mind.

Good advice on not burning any bridges though. I usually think of that, only by the time I do I've already opened my mouth. As much as I hate it I'm going to need dipshits like this architect in the future, and I would probably be well served to keep in his good graces, even if just for the sake of the immediate project.

I decided today that I'm going to call him up on Monday and applogize. I don't think I did a single thing wrong, but he doesn't have to know that. I'm going to take the attitude of "I know you and I are both under the most amount of pressure on each of our sides, and we should stick together and help each other out when we can. I failed to do that and I'm sorry." Or something to that effect. Of course, this is assuming that it doesn't stick in my throat.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:12:12 PM EST
IM not going to argue on and on for pages because I dont have anything to prove but since you tried to belittle SW Id like to respond.

You remind me of those GOTH kids on southpark that go against the grain of popular culture purposely just to be different cause its COOL but intern become conformist to that group. Your bitchy replies in the team forum about trolls gets old but your entitled to your opinion.

This thread makes you a hypocrite but from reading your past posts over the years you seem to have a GOD complex somewhat.

FYI
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:25:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
IM not going to argue on and on for pages because I dont have anything to prove but since you tried to belittle SW Id like to respond.

You remind me of those GOTH kids on southpark that go against the grain of popular culture purposely just to be different cause its COOL but intern become conformist to that group. Your bitchy replies in the team forum about trolls gets old but your entitled to your opinion.

This thread makes you a hypocrite but from reading your past posts over the years you seem to have a GOD complex somewhat.

FYI



blah blah blah. This thread in no way makes me a hypocrite. The purpose of this thread was and still is entirely different than you whiney little sissies that run to the team forum to cry "troll". If you don't want to argue on and on for pages, than have a big ass cup of STFU and move along.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 3:26:03 PM EST
I worked on new home construction in the Upland/Ontario/Cucamonga area.
Cookie cutter tract housing.

My job was to install air conditioning units and to run the tubing.
More than once I had to take out the chainsaw and modify the design of the house in order to run the cable/freon lines/ducting/temp control units.

One time the GC came out and told us not to modify anything, to do it according to the blueprint, so I spent 4 hours hanging wall register cover plates over drywall.




Originally Posted By thebrain:
Incompetent engineers is endemic in the electrical industry. I have been an electrician for ten years now. I have worked on everything from single family dwellings to water treatment facilities.

As a general rule drawings are only used as a rough plan. A point to start from. Nothing is ever complete, or 100% correct on them. Many time equipment is to large to fit in a particulate area, or is under sized to the point of overload the instant it is started.

One particular job jumps into my head, The print called for a 700 amp service. It was to supply 15,000 square foot country club. With two roof top hvac unites, a full kitchen, full bar, game room, well, ect.,ect. Be for we even ordered the equipment the engineer was told it would not be large enough to supply the entire load of the building. I'm the engineer your the electrician we were told. So we ordered and installed what was called for. Guess what it wasn't large enough. We had the pleasure of removing the under sized service and installing a larger one. Which had just enough capacity to do the job, no room for expansion. All at the cost of the engineering firm. I don't believe they made a good profit on this job. But I did.

Like I always say the job ain't done right until its done twice.

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:16:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 6:16:55 PM EST by Tango7]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
I worked on new home construction in the Upland/Ontario/Cucamonga area.
Cookie cutter tract housing.

My job was to install air conditioning units and to run the tubing.
More than once I had to take out the chainsaw and modify the design of the house in order to run the cable/freon lines/ducting/temp control units.

One time the GC came out and told us not to modify anything, to do it according to the blueprint, so I spent 4 hours hanging wall register cover plates over drywall.



BEAUTIFUL!

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:34:17 PM EST

Since when have people started going to work for social and emotional gratification?


I go to work because I get tired of staying home not for the money. You don't enlist to become rich.

I understood when I was pretty young still that I had the abilities, talent, and skill to always have a roof over my head, food on the table, and a shirt on my back. I serve this country because I like it and I've said for better than two decades when the Navy gives me a job I don't like I'd quit ... that day finally came went Col. JH turned against my command's enlisted folk and I fought the good fight. He arranged for me to get sent across country, I arranged that he wouldn't illegally walk out of his job and into a civilian position ... and made 18 complaints to the DoD IG.

I have a SFC that's worthless POS who after I attempted to do him a favor narc'ed me out to the commander. Col JH is an ass and knows it and actually understood what I was doing when I offered to go around his back for the SFC. The boy is mine for the next four months. It is good to be the king.

I always like the direct approach with problem children lettting them know what they're doing wrong, how they're suppose to be acting/preforming and then giving them all the love and attention that they need daily until they fall back into step ... or step out of line enough for me to hammer them. Things are pretty clear cut in the military on what is acceptable and what isn't so there's no excuse that they didn't know what to do.

[mod]Knock the shit slinging at each other off will 'ya ... [/mod]
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 8:37:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By norman74:
Office people are fucking pathetic.
SNIP
If my choices are work in an office with the sissies, or out in the field where the real work gets done, I'll take the field anyday.



I agree - to both statements.

There are ways to make his life hell. Such as RFI him to death - my all time favorite. All intended to make it look like you can't start/complete work until you get info from him.

Hell, in this case, if he's that ignorant about the Code, I'd just RFI him to death on those issues. Every error you see, RFI him. No more courtesy calls. And forward a copy to the GF. They'll love that!

As I lke to say, "One of two things will happen; you'll either get over it, or you'll get used to it." (Directed at the girly-man eng.)

You tho thilly! Thop iiitttt!

You're gonna take him to lunch? You know he's gonna wanna go to the sushi bar, right? HAHA!

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 9:05:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Backstop:
There are ways to make his life hell. Such as RFI him to death - my all time favorite. All intended to make it look like you can't start/complete work until you get info from him.

Hell, in this case, if he's that ignorant about the Code, I'd just RFI him to death on those issues. Every error you see, RFI him. No more courtesy calls. And forward a copy to the GF. They'll love that!



Oh trust me, I know how to kill 'em with RFIs. I was on my last project for two years and wrote over 1000 RFIs. That's more than one RFI per day.

Thanks for reminding me of this though, it has potential. The only problem is that it's design-build and they work for me and I'm responsible for them.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 9:24:13 PM EST
Oh yeah - guess I missed the design build part. Don't understand exactly what you're doing, either - just throwing out some Bud Light ideas.

After I got out of the military and got back to the States, I worked as a Phar Tech at HEB for a while. (I didn't spend much time working in a hospital.) Guess I lasted about 5 months. If I ever saw a bunch of people who needed the crap pounded out of them... And wouldn't you know it? I'm now working at a huge hospital complex area in downtown San Antonio. Sheesh....

Lots of pretty nurses though...

So I went and got my license back...

Hey need a commercial elect? Shit, we're in a Market Recovery Program (Robbery) here and taking a $3 to $4 an hour paycut - depends on the job. We're all just waiting for the Toyota plant...

Seriously, good luck with the project.

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