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Posted: 10/12/2004 10:59:40 AM EDT
[#1]
Damn brother, you own your own jet airplane but you've got a cold garage?
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:02:31 AM EDT
[#2]
I use plain old clear white kerosene for my Kero-Sun space heater. As far as I know, clear white kerosene is the same as JetA. There is a yellow kerosene too, but I don't use that kind.
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:05:58 AM EDT
[#3]
 That's $%^#$%% funny!!! No, I don't own my own plane, just fly a little cargo plane that burns jet fuel, so free fuel (can't dump the sumpings back in the plane........somebody should benefit from the sumpings  ) for a heater out in the garage is easy to come by. I"m just afraid of the jet fuel being more "sooty" than the stuff they use in those heaters and making a mess out in the garage.vmax84 |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:08:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Unless you are stealing the Jet A, K-1 is cheaper, but they both should work okay. Don't use diesel fuel unless you want everything in the garage to smell like a, well, jet airplane! [or a diesel Mercedes]
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:10:48 AM EDT
[#5]
I used to refuel planes in another life, & was always told that they are one & the same (looked & smelled the same). Not sure if the aviation variety has some anti-icing additives (probably not, since we would sometimes add that in as an extra, at the pilots request). Who do you plan to purchase your "jet fuel" from, an aviation FBO?
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:13:36 AM EDT
[#6]
I used to fly a jet in a prior life and the manual said that kerosene was an approved fuel for the airplane, which doesn't answer the question as to whether Jet A is an approved fuel for the heater. Here's a link that discusses the two:
Jet A and K-1 (of course, like anything else on the internet, that information's as good as what you pay for it). |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:18:19 AM EDT
[#7]
they are close enough it should work.
test it outside! |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:21:07 AM EDT
[#8]
I thought they were close cousins, but not the same. I wouldn't want to even try putting K1 in a million dollar turbine, but for a space heater, there's probably not much difference. Possible dangers could be the byproducts put out into the room (that you'll breathe in) or maybe using the other fuel might burn hotter past the tolerance levels of some weird part in the heater.
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:30:34 AM EDT
[#9]
We have run hundreds of gallons of K1 through the helicopter. Only difference is the additive package, anti iceer and algacide. Jet A runs fine in my kerosuns.
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:36:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Pay your least-liked inlaw or child to start it with a 10' barge pole over 100 meters from the nearest occupied dwelling. Preferribly with the individual in a fox hole and wearing bomb squad gear. If they survive, assume functional and proceed as planned.
Kharn |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:42:32 AM EDT
[#11]
I know that JP-8 has static electricity inhibitors in it and ther things that keep it fron freezing/gelling up in cold temps.
I'd use it. |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:53:00 AM EDT
[#12]
seems like jet-A is just purified kero.........
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Posted: 10/12/2004 11:56:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Get both!
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Posted: 10/12/2004 12:24:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Both are really the same, however Jet A has surfacants (sp?) to prevent from sludge forming in the tanks, and also to prevent algae from forming also. So really it just has to do with the additives.
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Posted: 10/12/2004 12:37:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Inspected wayyy to many storage facilities.
Burn the same, just more QC following the jet fuel. |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 12:52:04 PM EDT
[#16]
In the strict sense of chemical compounds, no, they are not the same.
 I would not use Jet-A it for a space heater in the garage since it containes "other stuff" than just 100% kerosene. Using something other than what the manufacturer reccomends is like saying "hold my beer and watch this ya'll..." Shell Jet-A CAS#--------CONCENTRATION--------INGREDIENTS Mixture-------100 %weight--------------Jet Fuel 8008-20-6---96.6 - 99.98 %weight-----Kerosene 91-20-3------0 - 2.99 %weight----------Naphthalene 7704-34-9---0 - 0.29 %weight----------Sulfur 71-43-2------0.01 - 0.08 %weight-------Benzene Shell Kerosene CAS#--------CONCENTRATION--------INGREDIENTS Mixture-------100 %weight--------------Jet Fuel 64742-81-0--100 %weight-------------Treated Kerosene |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 1:45:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for all the good info............I think I'll just use the electric heater
 vmax84 My luck, I'll blow the damn house up. |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 2:15:29 PM EDT
[#18]
If the jet a you are using is mixed with the anti-icing and anti microbrial additive (Prist), I would not recommend using it.
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Posted: 10/12/2004 2:36:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Use it.
They only difference is the additives, namely for anti-microbial and anti-icing properties. They are in such small qualities they will make no difference, and are designed to combust as easily as the fuel and not change its burning properties. I just spent way too much time studying Jet-A, JP-4, JP-8, kerosene, and diesel and comparing fuel lubrictity, additive packages, and field expedient adddditives. Except for the diesel they are all pretty much the same except for the additives, and of course kerosene isn't held top the same QC standards. Just don't run Jet-A in a vehicle with a fuel injection pump that depends on fuel for internal lubrication, especially a Stanadyne/ Roosa Master type system. |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 2:48:13 PM EDT
[#20]
Jet A is purified a bit more than Kerosene, It should work just fine.
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Posted: 10/12/2004 4:02:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Falcon or Lear?
I wouldn't hesitate to use jet-a in a heater as long as theres ventilation. <== Jet mech |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 4:15:58 PM EDT
[#22]
I know that JP-8 causes coking deposits on the power turbine blades of T-56's if you don't run the engines at idle for 5 minutes to cool them down.
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Posted: 10/12/2004 5:39:08 PM EDT
[#23]
JP-8 is a compromise that lets everyone use a single fuel... yet is a compromise for all involved. It lacks enough lubricty, despite the additives, to effectively power the ground equipment without causing injector pump failure in some and, an even worse problem, at high temperatures has too low a viscosity to allow the vehicles to start easily in hot weather. Yet for aircraft the same additives that they use to attempt to make it acceptable for ground vehicles causes problems there. |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 5:57:08 PM EDT
[#24]
I used to haul fuel for a living. I don't know about the additives and such but when I hauled Kerosene and called it Kerosene people would say "ok." When I hauled Kerosene and called it Jet Fuel people would say "dang man, thats dangerous stuff."
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Posted: 10/12/2004 7:52:49 PM EDT
[#25]
No doubt why the VN vets I know dumped a couple qts lube oil in the JetA they put in GPUs. The 250C20 requires a two min.cool-own at ground idle as well but not for blade coking; rather it is to prevent bearing coking. If the hot section is really hot and you shut down, oil flow stops and bearing temp goes sky high. No doubt other turbines have different issues. |
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Posted: 10/12/2004 8:44:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Sumpings...LOL For the benefit of the non pilots here, a sump sample is about the size of a shotglass. Sometimes you need 3 or 4 ounces at a time. Almost nobody sumps jet equipment, but I'm glad you do V max. I do also, but it evaporates (don't tell EPA) You need to get at least 2 gallons of fuel samples every preflight, Never can be too careful, right? Admit it...Stealing is OK, unless you make UPS or FEDEX main line money. The additives are very toxic, and some FBO's use preblended fuel. Ever read the warnings on a PRIST can? I would use it in a Diesel truck, but not in an indoor Kero heater. Kero keaters are dangerous for indoors anyway. If the carbon monoxide doesen't kill you, it will give you dain bramage! 
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Posted: 10/13/2004 3:25:00 AM EDT
[#27]
If you so this, ensure you add abour 1.5% 2 cycle engine oil to it to ensure you have enough lubricity. That still will not solve your viscosity problems however. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 3:25:29 AM EDT
[#28]
WTF is dain damage?????
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Posted: 10/13/2004 3:28:32 AM EDT
[#29]
I have learned more stuff on this thread then in any thread in ARFCOM history!
You guys are smart! SGatr15 |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 3:31:57 AM EDT
[#30]
We had a Lear jet that came out of Canada with some snomobile premix for fuel! They had been at a remote airport and needed a little more than they brought to make it out. Blue smoke trail all the way out! Planerench out. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 3:52:08 AM EDT
[#31]
"71-43-2------0.01 - 0.08 %weight-------Benzene "
This is the one to pay attention to guys. Benzine is BAD STUFF, and if you burn it in an enclosed area, you are exposing yourself to a major Carcinogen, lung damage, reproductive damage, brain damage and other maladies. I wouldn't burn the stuff indoors. Even in a drafty garage. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 5:35:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Is this in kerosene, jet fuel, or both? And just to clarify, to kind of clear the air on this "sumping" stuff, the fuel tanks have to sumped along with a few other collection points on the plane. Plus, there is an EPA can that has to be drained after every 7 or so engine shut downs, otherwise, it just dumps the fuel overboard onto the ground, which would negate the use of the EPA can. I don't steal the fuel or drain extra out........I just can't see throwing this fuel away when I feel it could go to better use than dumping it into our recylcling barrels. Anyway, thanks again for all the good help.............as always!!  vmax84 |
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