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Posted: 8/18/2004 7:08:57 PM EDT
Hello AR15.com Crew

I have been doing some reading on Schutzhund. I got the book titiled Schutzhund: Theory and Training Methods. And I have a few questions for you K9 Handlers and Trainers

My fiance and I were considering getting a new puppy, a Boxer to be specific, and the thought of training the dog for personal protection corssed my mind.

I would love to have a Boxer that had a Schutzhund title but I don't know if there are any clubs in the Knoxville, TN are to train the pup in. Where can we (pup and I ) train at?

I am also concernd with the fact I have a cat. I don't want the cat to have any dominance over the pup, it may hurt it's fighting spirit. Can I have a cat around an dog I am going to train for protection / Schutzhund?

How much does it cost to train a dog?

Can it be done alone? I have done a bit of reading on Schutzhund and trained dogs for basic obedience. I am sure it is a lot harder for the bite work and tracking. Specifically the bite work being that you need an agitator.

I love Boxers and when we get our pup I want to take full advantage of his (or her) nature and blood line. All of the dogs I have seen doing Schutzhund or Protection Work seem so happy and I think it would be a win win for us and the dog.

Please forgive spelling mistakes
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 10:07:08 PM EDT

schutzhund ROCKS!!!!

i have trained several GSD for families and K-9's for small town police departments. Boxers are awesome dogs (just like many others) if you get them from the right lines. but why not a standard working dog like of some type of sheperd?? the chances of you getting a better working dog increases dramatically.

working dogs come from working dogs....and there arent that many working boxer stock out there.
you can train one from non working stock but there is usually more work involved.

look here for club advice

they can help you find who you need. i would also contact your local PD(K-9 handler) and ask for references of people in the area who can help you.

i wouldnt worry about the cat..or the dogs..

i have never seen a quality dog back away from a cat yet.
i have seen numerous cat carcasses, though.

take my advice..pennies on the dollar over the internet. LoL

be careful with this..
only about 10% of dogs are stable enough for controlled aggression training. in reality..its the cream of the crop and there are alot of washouts..to get there.
mental stability as well as a very firm consistant trainer/owner are the keys.

i would be very leery of getting a pup for ScH without buying from credible breeders who know what your going to use it for.

your talking a few $1000's to get a pup thru 2 years in gear/vet/training. especially working boxer stock.

good luck..

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:39:02 AM EDT
i have been thinking of getting my rotties put into training
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:42:17 AM EDT
IM Defcon, I believe he does Schutzhund training
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 8:07:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedave1164:
IM Defcon, I believe he does Schutzhund training

where is he located
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 3:29:24 PM EDT

Lets see if AZ K9 see this thread.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 3:33:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:04:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:
I personally think "personal protection" training a dog isn't that bright of an idea. Dogs who love their families will protect instictivly, they don't need to be trained for it. I have large dogs and they only need to give me a few seconds to get ready...then I'll handle the situation if it needs to be handled. Schutzhund is pretty cool if you have the time though.


I am not trying to contradict you but I have had a lot of big dogs in my day. As a child and through my teen years I have had 1 Boxer, 1 English Bulldog, and 1 APBT. The all acted bad ass when someone came to the door but the only one that would have bitten was the APBT. APBT's have a tendency to have a real strong prey drive and she thought everything was hers. The Boxer was a big baby, she would bark at a stranger but if she was out at night and heard a thump she would hide behind me. The bulldog is 1/2 blind a he bites out of fear, he bit me yesterday at my parents house.

There are two broad reasons dogs bite, fear dirve and prey drive. It takes a really brave dog to bite on command. It has to have the proper balance of fear and prey drive. It needs to act not only to defend it's self but out of the sheer enjoyment of biting. When you own a dog you are, typically the alpha dog of the pack. If the pack gets attacked the pooch will look to you, like my boxer did, unless it is trained. Thats is just from my experience and readings on Schutzhund and dog training.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:06:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:14:01 PM EDT
Just because a dog barks at people at your house does not mean he will bite a person on command. It takes alot of training to get a dog to bite and then release on command. I think sch. training is ok, but I have seen alot of dogs only react on the field and not in a real life situation. I would train with someone that does not focus on a certain routines and trains in a bunch of different locations and one who doesnt focus on exposed sleeves after the dog knows how to bite switch to a concealed sleeve
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:22:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 5:24:49 PM EDT by lvgunner777]
Personal protection or Schutzhund is a great way to bond with your dog and assure yourself the dog will be under your control if something drastic ever happened. I would advise against the boxer just because as said earlier, it is extremely hard to find a boxer who will do the work. The breed was started and is mainly maintained by those in the show ring, these dogs have zero working ability. Keep in mind, you can't just take any German Shepherd, Rott, Malinois, or any other "guard type" breed and expect it to protect you and have the nerve to do the work. As said earlier, it takes the cream of the crop to be able to handle the training and actually back it up if something were to happen. Yes, most dogs bark at noises and that is about all they would do faced with a real threat. The reason they bark is because they have weak nerves, that means they will act like bad asses until some pressure is put on them and then they will fall apart. People that don't understand dog's drives will tell you "all dogs are protective", that is complete nonsense and a huge majority of even "guard breeds" wouldn't do shit if a real situation were to occur. My male Rott and I have done quite a bit of Schutzhund training but it can grow tired because of how patterned it it is. Now PSA (Protection Sports of America) is what we are in now. The decoys wear bite suits as opposed to a sleeve, this is obviously more realistic. When you go to a schutzhund comp everyone knows what is going to happen long before the trial day, with PSA the routine is kept secret until that day.

Remember, with a pup it has to be all play for at least a year. You have to build the dogs prey foundation up before you put any defense on the dog whatsoever. Don't let some idiot trainer try to "make your dog mean" for you. That is not what you want, you want a social dog who kids can pet but will light up when neccasary. This is accomplished through proper training. Please don't try to get off cheap when you buy your pup. Expect to pay at least $1200-$1800 for a pup with a strong working pedigree. If you go cheap now, you will regret it for years to come because your dog will not be genetically equipt to do the work.

This is a great source, go through the questions and answers sections here and you will learn A LOT!!! If I can be of any help to you just let me know throught the IM. Leerburgs videos are top notch too, I suggest Bernhard Flinks Building Drive and Focus.


Here is my boy:

Here is my pup, she has already been to 3 training sessions at the PSA club, she is just watching now. Getting used to the sounds like the cracking whips, the water bottles filled with rocks, and basically just watching the other dogs work. Great socialization!!!!!

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:22:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:47:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:47:49 PM EDT by Defcon]
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:15:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 10:16:58 PM EDT by lvgunner777]
The part about hooking up with a club is imperative in my opinion. You will learn so much and get to help new members as you gain experience.

Here are a few pics of my boy Hans working tonight:

Notice all the junk lying around the decoy? Those items are full of rocks and are used as noise makers to help keep the dogs calm on the bite no matter what the distractions. The truck in the background is used for training a car jack scenario.

Here is my pup Belle just hanging out in the gallery with my nephew, again, socialization is key. Everyone gets to love up the pup, give her treats, everyone is her friend right now. This keeps the dog social as an adult. My male is extremely social around people, that is what most people don't understand about this kind of training. A good dog is under control, not some maniac running a fence acting tough like a lot piece of shit dogs out there.

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