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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/7/2002 5:07:12 AM EDT
"People" who quote Bible verses "out of context".. I read this quote in another topic recently, and I've just got to reply to this. See, I'm one of those people. I've never understood people who make that statement. Would you rather I quoted the whole chapter? The whole book? The entire New (or Old)Testament? The whole Bible? (As to why the Bible, and not the Koran, Book of the Dead, etc., that's another topic, and I'll be glad to discuss that with anyone who wants to email me.) Any document has statements that stand on their own. Let's use any firearms instruction manual as an example: "Always treat every firearm as if it was loaded, at all times." or "Always be sure of your backstop." These statements apply at all times, (unless your weapon is broken down). And then there are statements that need to be understood in the context that they were used. You wouldn't use any of these by their self: "Never point your firearm at anything...." not much use in having one, is there? "Always keep your finger off the trigger...." kind of hard to shoot that way. "Remove the bolt assembly, and set it aside." if I do this before going to the range, I'll save a lot of ammo. [rolleyes] In this aspect, the Bible is no different than any other document. Many statements can and do stand on their own. (all quotes from the NIV Bible.) JN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -that statement stand on it's own, as John, Christ, and God intended that it should. As do these: EX 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me. PS 23:1-4 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters,he restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. JN 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. " REV 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. All of these statements stand on their own, but I can gladly show you other places where these principles are confirmed, reinforced, or expanded upon. (That's the irritating thing about a Conservative Christian, they think of the whole Bible as God's word.) This same Bible tells me many things: That I have to love everyone, even if they don't believe as I do. It says that I have to love and respect the Jewish people, because they brought me the Messiah, and they are [b]still[/b] God's people. (though now I am part of God's people too. [:)]) It tells me that I am no better than the worst of sinners, apart from the blood of Christ. continued below.....
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 5:07:49 AM EDT
As with other documents, some statements need to be understood in the context that they were written in: from II Kings 8:12..."You will set fire to their fortified places, kill their young men with the sword, dash their little children to the ground, and rip open their pregnant women." ECC 1:2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless." JN 11:35 Jesus wept. Some of these statements can be pretty scary, unless you look at the context that were used in. I'm not a seminary student, and I hope I don't quit learning until I die. If anyone would like to have an ongoing dialog on these things, email me at: jn1_1@hotmail.com. I'll be glad to answer any questions to the best of my ability. As it says in Isaiah: ISA 1:18 "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. I'll be back in a minute. I'm going to get my asbestos underwear.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 5:45:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 5:47:24 AM EDT by Schnert]
mini14jac, You're refering to some common exegetical errors. Exegesis in the process of viewing and understanding the scriptures in their original context. For instance, reading the book of Revelation as what it is (a form of patently Jewish apocalyptic literature as recorded by St. John the Divine) stands as exegesis. Reading the book of Revelation as a set of literal predictions about future history IS NOT exegesis. Here are some common exegetical errors: isagesis - This happens when one removes the text from its context in such a way to produce a contrary meaning. For instance, I once read an exposition of Jesus' words "In my Father's house there are many rooms." to mean "It doesn't matter what you believe as long as you're sincere, because all religions will get you there!" This is simple isagesis, because it ignores what is recorded immediately following that verse: "There is but one way to the Father and that is throught the Son." Most proof-texters engage in isagesis. They refuse to hold a single verse of scripture in the context of the whole of the scriptures. The ante-Nicean Fathers approached the scriptures with the dictum "Let scripture interpret scripture." The faithful had to fight proof texting from day one. metagesis - This involves twisting the text to produce an alternate meaning. This occurs when you approach an ancient text and read new meaning into it. For instance, people do this when they fail to grasp the nuances of the text. When Jesus identifies himself as "the Son of Man" what is he saying. A good exegete will understand the context and original meaning of that title. A bad exegete will assume that Jesus is confessing that he isn't the Messiah. The "distance" between ourselves and the communities that produced Holy Writ creates an intellectual gap. We refer to this as the hermeneutical gap. Hermeneutics are the tools that we use to faithfully interpret scripture in relation to scripture, tradition and scholarship.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 5:53:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 5:55:42 AM EDT by KhanFire]
There's a passage I got memorized, seems appropriate for this situation: Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." Sorry, I coulden't resist! as you may know, that's the passage that Jules says to Brett in the movie 'Pulp Fiction'before he 'puts a cap in his @ss'.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:01:20 AM EDT
Here's a nice handy rule of thumb - "A text, with a CONtext, is a PREtext."
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:04:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 6:06:07 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
"On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry. And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. And he said to it, 'May no one ever eat fruit from you again.'" Mark 11:12 [img]http://members.aol.com/bbu84/biblicalstupidity/god.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:22:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: "On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he (Jesus) was hungry. And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. And he said to it, 'May no one ever eat fruit from you again.'" Mark 11:12
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An alternate translation of Jesus's words is "Fig off and die!" [;)]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:46:00 AM EDT
"No flesh shall be spared." Mark 13:20
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 6:54:59 AM EDT
"An eye for an eye" [:D]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 7:12:43 AM EDT
I simply love reading the Bible. There is nothing 'hidden' that shall not be revealed in its season. Though the Church was hidden and remained a mystery in the Old Testament, there were clear hints at its future existence. I like the way that some of the First Century AD Rabbinical schools spoke of their 'Old Testament' - there was nothing written in scripture that was not written of the Messiah! It is His book, it is His story, and it is, was, and always will be written in His blood. Now [u]that's[/u] a mystery for sure! But not to some. Eric The(Believing)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 7:46:07 AM EDT
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. Acts 19: 13-16
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 7:57:25 AM EDT
I have not been to this site in over 6 months and I just about craped my self!.................do you anti God people have any thing to do or is this it?!?! BTW:for your next great topic idea try"if God is real way do smell bad?" or maybe "if God is so great waydose HBO show the same thimg 50 times a month?" That whould be much more fun[;)]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 8:26:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By smarty_pants: BTW:for your next great topic idea try"if God is real way do smell bad?" or maybe "if God is so great waydose HBO show the same thimg 50 times a month?" That whould be much more fun[;)]
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uhh...well said? [:E]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 8:28:07 AM EDT
My vote for the most misused and misrepresented Bible quote is the following... Matthew, 7:1-5 [b]Judge not, that ye be not judged.[/b] There are many moral equalizers (even here) who claim this means that "right and wrong" are relative terms and there are no moral absolutes - just opinions. They reject the idea that anything outside of themselves should decide what is right or wrong and that no one should "judge" their actions. They often use this quote to backup their claim that even Jesus would agree with them. BUT the rest of the passage refutes moral relativism and actually INSTRUCTS us on how to judge others. Matthew, 7:2-5 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, [b]first[/b] cast out the beam out of thine own eye; [b]and then[/b] shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. So, we should FIRST remove the sin from ourselves THEN we can instruct and help others against their sinful ways. As long as we are not hypocritcal, we OUGHT to judge the actions of others. This and other passages in the Bible clearly indicated that we SHOULD judge and discern right from wrong: 1Kings, 3:9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people? Ezekial 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. Malachi, 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not. Hebrews, 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 8:44:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2002 8:49:17 AM EDT by The_Macallan]
The second most misused and misrepresented Bible quote: John, 8:7 [b]He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone [/b] This is often used by moral relativists as a defense against being punished for immoral behavior (prostitution in this case). It is used in a way such as "You can't judge me because YOU'RE not perfect yourself!" and they go on their merry little way continuing in their sinful habits. The problem is that these immoral heathen scum don't finish the reading the rest of the story in the Bible... John, 8:3-11 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: [b]go, and sin no more.[/b] Jesus' command to "go and sin no more" is universally ignored by cheaters, liars, perverts, homosexuals and other bohemian misfit scum who expect to be automatically pardoned for they're sins but never actually [b]repent[/b] and change their immoral ways.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 10:21:06 AM EDT
Schnert, Hun, Macallan, Very well put. Sounds like there are some scholars on here. If people could just see the Bible for the living, relevant, powerful text that it really is..... but..... Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Luke 13:23,24
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 12:54:05 PM EDT
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the verse that is most often misquoted by gun people, the one where Christ tells his apostles to sell their cloaks for the money to buy swords.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 1:15:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hoplophile: I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the verse that is most often misquoted by gun people, the one where Christ tells his apostles to sell their cloaks for the money to buy swords.
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Ah, yes, Luke 22:36, "He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'" I think whoever uses that one to prove that Jesus advocates gun ownership should also have to abide by his similar 'command' a few sentences later in Luke 22:38, "The disciples said, 'See, Lord, here are two swords.' 'That is enough,' he replied." Apparently Jesus supports a two-gun limit. If you take Luke 22:35-38, it becomes a lot more clear what Jesus meant.
"Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.
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Jesus is telling that he is about to be executed as a criminal and that his disciples are going to be sent out to face persecution. Unlike the last time he sent them out, this time they will have to concern themselves with money, food, shelter, and even with their very lives. The fact that two swords is enough for the twelve of them shows that he is not concerned with them literally taking up weapons.
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 1:25:19 PM EDT
I like this verse, since it shows that even Jesus is concerned that there will still be faith on earth when He returns: Luke Chapter 18: 7 [red][b]And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?[/b][/red] 8 [red][b]I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. [u]Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth[/u]?[/b][/red] Eric The(AwaitingTheDay,TheHour,TheClouds,TheSound­s)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 3/7/2002 2:56:58 PM EDT
I don't know anything about bible verses but, I do know some say that people quote The Constitution and Bill of Rights "out of context".
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 3:33:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By smarty_pants: BTW:for your next great topic idea try"if God is real way do smell bad?" or maybe "if God is so great waydose HBO show the same thimg 50 times a month?" That whould be much more fun[;)]
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uhh...well said? [:E]
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Man, it' not easy to get down to this level and talk to some of these guys.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 4:00:41 PM EDT
"...if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Luke 22:36 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 6:24:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Happyshooter: "...if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" Luke 22:36 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34
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There you go, Hoplophile. Happyshooter, are we to assume these are examples, or what?
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 6:47:12 PM EDT
I don't know about you guys but when people start quoting scripture or talking about their christianity(etc.) I start insisting on cash!! I wish I had the money from 10% of the bad checks I have received with bible verses on them. I cold retire to the beach.
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 8:42:01 PM EDT
John 18:10 "Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his ear."
Link Posted: 3/10/2002 9:05:06 PM EDT
How come the devil never wrote his own best seller over the centuries? The guy certainly has had enough time to do it. What gives here! .....another fine example of censorship in this so called free society.
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