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Posted: 9/23/2004 7:39:01 PM EST
Werent the guns in waco registered MG, and peoplle point out that the 50BMG was never used in a crime, didnt they also use those in Waco
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:39:56 PM EST
My first!

IBTL
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:40:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
Werent the guns in waco registered MG, and peoplle point out that the 50BMG was never used in a crime, didnt they also use those in Waco



Yes Im sure the government used machine guns.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:41:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 7:46:10 PM EST by repub18]

My first!

IBTL
.




Well you obviosly dont know how to use it
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:41:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:

Originally Posted By repub18:
Werent the guns in waco registered MG, and peoplle point out that the 50BMG was never used in a crime, didnt they also use those in Waco



Yes Im sure the government used machine guns.



+1
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:41:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 7:43:02 PM EST by Alien]
LEGAL machine guns is the key. Basically it shows that law abiding citizens that jump through all the hoops to get one don't use them in crimes. A police officer used a department issued weapon in the one instance where a legally owned one was used. There have probably been hundreds of cases of illegally manufactured/converted machine guns used in crimes.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:42:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
.




Use what?
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:42:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 7:43:32 PM EST by cnorton]

Originally Posted By repub18:
.



Damn why did you edit your post, it was damn funny.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:42:48 PM EST
there is kinda of a double meaning in my post
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:44:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 7:45:21 PM EST by repub18]

Originally Posted By cnorton:

Originally Posted By repub18:
.



[roflw]




I wanted to see how it played out first



ETA i'll put it back
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:46:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

Originally Posted By repub18:
.




Use what?




I dont want it repeated
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:47:44 PM EST
A far as I know, there were two instances of LEGALLY transferred and PRIVATELY owned MG's being used in crimes. One instance was a Cop who owned his own MAC to kill a drug dealer (in what was likely a dirty cop trying to rip off someone). Another involved a suicide by the owner of the MG (Must have wanted to do a good job). Not sure if there are any more, but most people aren't going to use a $3000 to $10,000 firearm (let alone the exotics running $50k or more) gun in a robbery, murder, etc, especially people who have gone through the extensive background and fingerprint work to be able to pay the transfer tax.

AFARR
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:48:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By AFARR:
A far as I know, there were two instances of LEGALLY transferred and PRIVATELY owned MG's being used in crimes. One instance was a Cop who owned his own MAC to kill a drug dealer (in what was likely a dirty cop trying to rip off someone). Another involved a suicide by the owner of the MG (Must have wanted to do a good job). Not sure if there are any more, but most people aren't going to use a $3000 to $10,000 firearm (let alone the exotics running $50k or more) gun in a robbery, murder, etc, especially people who have gone through the extensive background and fingerprint work to be able to pay the transfer tax.

AFARR



The suicide doesn't count!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:48:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 7:49:35 PM EST by repub18]
allright guys back to original post, The MG's that were used in WACO by the branch dividians were actual legaly registered machines guns, and the Barret 50BMG that was used was also legally purchased. The double meaning was the FBI's mg's were also used in a crime as well
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:52:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
allright guys back to original post, The MG's that were used in WACO by the branch dividians were actual legaly registered machines guns, and the Barret 50BMG that was used was also legally purchased. The double meaning was the FBI's mg's were also used in a crime as well



I dont recall ever hearing of auto or .50 fire coming out of the compound, I hear that it all went in.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:54:20 PM EST
I thought the 'illegal weapons' the dividians had were just some ARs.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:54:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
allright guys back to original post, The MG's that were used in WACO by the branch dividians were actual legaly registered machines guns, and the Barret 50BMG that was used was also legally purchased. The double meaning was the FBI's mg's were also used in a crime as well



You need to do some more research.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:58:02 PM EST
from what I recall the .50 wasn't used, they found it still dissasembled in the case.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:58:12 PM EST
Recovered guns at Waco

Guns Recovered at Brach Davidian Compound

Guide Extra --

The following is from a "Memorandum to the Press" issued by Chris Peacock, Treasury Department Director of Public Affairs on July 13, 1995 showing a list of all firearms, explosives, and related material seized by Federal law enforcement officers following the April 19, 1993 assault on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SUBJECT: Weapons Possessed by the Branch Davidians
In total, the Texas Department of Public Safety, led by the Texas
Rangers, recovered more than 300 firearms from the Branch
Davidian compound. In addition, a number of live grenades and
more than 300 grenade components were uncovered. Hundreds of
thousands of rounds of ammunition were also seized.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms investigated David
Koresh for conduct involving: the illegal manufacture of machine
guns and the illegal manufacture and possession of destructive
devices. The FBI report provides evidence that the Davidians'
arsenal did indeed include weapons unlawfully manufactured. The
weapons listed include semiautomatic firearms illegally modified
to fire in full automatic mode, as well as grenades and
silencers. All of these weapons were unlawfully possessed.
I hope you find these documents useful as you review Treasury's
report on ATF's role in events at Waco.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND:
TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS
AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been
modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been
modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers,
or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's
residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it
would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND:
TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS
AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)
FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun

Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus
EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies
of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge
or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these
grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47

Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL

Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unknown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Varioius Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from
the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear
sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers,
compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:01:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
Recovered guns at Waco

Guns Recovered at Brach Davidian Compound

Guide Extra --

The following is from a "Memorandum to the Press" issued by Chris Peacock, Treasury Department Director of Public Affairs on July 13, 1995 showing a list of all firearms, explosives, and related material seized by Federal law enforcement officers following the April 19, 1993 assault on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas.




Well, certainly, you can bank on US government pronouncements about the Branch Davidians.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:02:10 PM EST
... you fellas need to find the documentary: Waco: The Rules of Engagement and watch it

Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:02:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 8:03:12 PM EST by repub18]

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
Recovered guns at Waco

Guns Recovered at Brach Davidian Compound

Guide Extra --

The following is from a "Memorandum to the Press" issued by Chris Peacock, Treasury Department Director of Public Affairs on July 13, 1995 showing a list of all firearms, explosives, and related material seized by Federal law enforcement officers following the April 19, 1993 assault on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






I just found that also, I guess I stand corrected but that is a shit load of firepower. But the MG's the FBI had were used illegaly too
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:05:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 8:05:34 PM EST by ARDunstan]

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:
Recovered guns at Waco

Guns Recovered at Brach Davidian Compound

Guide Extra --

The following is from a "Memorandum to the Press" issued by Chris Peacock, Treasury Department Director of Public Affairs on July 13, 1995 showing a list of all firearms, explosives, and related material seized by Federal law enforcement officers following the April 19, 1993 assault on the Branch Davidian compound near Waco, Texas.




Well, certainly, you can bank on US government pronouncements about the Branch Davidians.




SUBJECT: Weapons Possessed by the Branch Davidians
In total, the Texas Department of Public Safety, led by the Texas
Rangers, recovered more than 300 firearms from the Branch
Davidian compound.

If I recall correctly, the Texas Rangers were the GOOD GUYS.
They left their perimeter posts for the FBI in disgust.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:14:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:15:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers,
or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's
residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it
would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.




Ends that argument.





yeper
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:47:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:55:26 PM EST
Winston, thats a great film.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:14:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
Werent the guns in waco registered MG, and peoplle point out that the 50BMG was never used in a crime, didnt they also use those in Waco



1) No, that is one of the violations that the ATF was there for: unregistered machineguns...

2) The 50cal was never used and never found (understandable given the fire, alot of things were probably 'never found')... It was simply alleged to be present...
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:17:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 9:19:03 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Troy:
Except for the minor issue that there was an FFL (with, IIRC, an SOT) who lived at the church there. Our own ETH used to see Koresh and his folks as dealers at the Dallas-area gun shows.

Not that having a lot of guns is illegal, but most of these guns were INVENTORY for an FFL.

-Troy



Troy, they would still have to be NFA registered...

They were not...

They were therefore illegel...

Having a SOT does not exempt you from registering NFA items... He would have been able to transfer them tax-free, but not make them without being a C2 and paying tax/registering each weapon...
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:33:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 9:34:15 PM EST by LRGunner]
According to these dumbasses, .50 BMG's have been used in a few crimes. Remember the source, however.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:35:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers,
or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's
residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it
would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.




Ends that argument.




Except they said something like "22 M16s" in the "illegal" category, and 60-something M16s in the "total" category ... so were those 40-some M-16s legal or not?
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:43:57 AM EST
Dave_a? Which reason for the raid are you repeating?
The meth lab? which they got all the toys from the army with?
The child abuse? which they got all the TV coverage with.
The "illegal"guns? Which is a 200 dollar tax matter and does not deserve anyone being killed over.


Just curous.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 7:53:41 AM EST
ISTR reading that this inventory was a result of ATFE's work, and they've never allowed anybody
else to look at their 'evidence' to get an impartial verification on it, or their allegations.

Also that they (ATFE) had gone through the rubble, did their investigation, then leveled it all, w/o
allowing any private investigations.

Hmmmmm......
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:01:26 AM EST
This is the list of "crimes" the VPC attaches to .50cal weapons.

Criminal Use of the 50 Caliber Sniper Rifle



"The simple fact is that .50-calibers have not been used in crimes,"
NRA spokesman Andrew Arulandam, Associated Press, August 18, 2004

In June of 2004, Marvin Heemeyer of Granby, Colorado, plowed a makeshift armored bulldozer into several buildings in response to a zoning dispute and fines for city code violations. Heemeyer armored his 60-ton bulldozer with two sheets of half-inch steel with a layer of concrete between them. He methodically drove the bulldozer through the town of Granby, damaging or leveling 13 buildings before taking his own life. Heemeyer mounted three rifles on the bulldozer, including a Barrett 82A1 50 caliber sniper rifle. ("Man who plowed armored bulldozer into seven buildings in Colorado is dead, authorities say," Associated Press, June 5, 2004; "Armored Dozer Was Bad to Go," Denver Rocky Mountain News, June 25, 2004)




In February of 2004, Donin Wright of Kansas City, Missouri, lured police officers, paramedics, and firefighters to his home where he shot at them with several guns including a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle. Authorities discovered at least 20 guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition, and the makings of 20 pipe bombs inside Wright's home. ("Body is Identified in KC Gunfight, Fire," The Kansas City Star, March 30, 2004)




In June of 2000, Robert W. Stewart of Mesa, Arizona, a convicted felon, was charged with felony possession of firearms for being in possession of Maadi-Griffin 50 caliber "kit guns" he was selling from his home, along with other firearms alleged to be in his possession. Stewart has become a folk hero among hard-line gun advocates and 50 caliber enthusiasts. He was distinguished, among other things, by his assertion that convicted felons have the right to possess firearms: "I don't care if he's a mass murderer, he killed 50,000 people. He still has a right to have a gun. A gun is just a tool." (MSNBC transcript, "The .50-caliber militia," http://msnbc.com/news, May 15, 2001)




In April of 2000, convicted felon Wayne Frank Barbuto of Salt Lake City, Utah, was charged with attempting to sell two 50 caliber sniper rifles to undercover federal agents. The government believes Barbuto manufactured the guns himself. During a search of Barbuto's home, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) agents discovered more than 32 firearms and thousands of rounds of ammunition. ("Sandy Gun Dealer Charged by Feds," The Associated Press, May 5, 2000)




According to the General Accounting Office (GAO), 50 caliber sniper rifles have been found in the armories of drug dealers in California, Missouri, and Indiana. A federal investigation in 1999 was "targeting the movement of .50 caliber semi-automatic rifles from the United States to Mexico for use by drug cartels." ("Weaponry: .50 Caliber Rifle Crime," GAO Office of Special Investigations letter, August 4, 1999)




On March 19, 1998, following an undercover investigation, federal law enforcement officers arrested three members of a radical Michigan group known as the North American Militia. The men were charged with plotting to bomb federal office buildings, destroy highways, utilities, and public roads, and assassinate the state's governor, senior U.S. Senator, federal judges, and other federal officials. All three were ultimately convicted. A 50 caliber sniper rifle was among the weapons found in their possession. ("Prosecutor: Hate Was Motive Behind Plot," The Associated Press, November 18, 1998)




Wisconsin father and son James and Theodore Oswald were sentenced in 1995 to multiple life terms for armed robbery and the murder of a Waukesha police captain. The two had "a small armory of sophisticated and expensive weapons, including two custom-made .50-caliber rifles powerful enough to assault an armored car—which the two were considering doing," according to the Waukesha county sheriff. ("Possible Links Between Robbers, Far Right Sought," Chicago Tribune, July 10, 1995)




In the summer of 1995, Canadian officials in British Columbia found a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle, 500 rounds of ammunition, and enough explosives to fill a five-ton truck at a remote site. It is believed that members of a Texas militia group planned to set up a training camp at the site. Although at least one convicted felon was identified as a suspect, the investigation was dropped due to difficulties in prosecuting across international borders. The incident prompted one Texas Constitutional Militia official to observe, "We are not all raving maniacs. I'd kind of like to keep our lunatics on our side of the border." ("Arms Smugglers Won't Be Charged," The Vancouver Sun, October 26, 1996)




On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's grocery store in suburban Denver, Colorado, and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semiautomatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al," fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during his murderous rampage. ("Authorities Investigate Gun Sale: Rifle Used in Albertson's Slayings Wasn't Illegal," Rocky Mountain News, May 1, 1995)




Branch Davidian cult members at a compound in Waco, Texas, fired 50 caliber sniper rifles at federal ATF agents during their initial gun battle on February 28, 1993. The weapons' ability to penetrate tactical vehicles prompted the agency to request military armored vehicles to give agents adequate protection from the 50 caliber rifles and other more powerful weapons the Branch Davidians might have had. Four ATF agents were killed. ("Weaponry: .50 Caliber Rifle Crime," GAO Office of Special Investigations letter, August 4, 1999)




On February 27, 1992, a Wells Fargo armored delivery truck was attacked in a "military style operation" in Chamblee, Georgia, by several men using a smoke grenade and a Barrett 50 caliber sniper rifle. Two employees were wounded. ("Two Armored Truck Guards Shot," The Atlanta Journal Constitution, February 27, 1992)




In 1989, two members of a church in Gardner, Montana, who were part of what ATF has described as a "doomsday religious cult," were arrested and charged with federal firearms violations. The two suspects had purchased hundreds of firearms, including ten 50 caliber semiautomatic rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition, using false identification. ("Weaponry: .50 Caliber Rifle Crime," GAO Office of Special Investigations letter, August 4, 1999)
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 8:03:19 AM EST
Watch "The Rules of Engagement"

The AK that the BATFE stooge holds up at the hearings is one of the ones they claim to have "recovered" from the remains.

It is SHOWROOM PERFECT. No rust, nice furniture, still shiny.

They expect us to believe that a fire that completely destroyed a metal door somehow left that rifle untouched. Bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 12:35:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2004 12:38:14 PM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By LRGunner:
According to these dumbasses, .50 BMG's have been used in a few crimes. Remember the source, however.



The only incident i am aware of with a 50BMG being used in a crime was a lovers triangle. 50 Cal shooter ambusehed his wife on her lunch break.

This is the one I was thinkng of: On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's grocery store in suburban Denver, Colorado, and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semiautomatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semiautomatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al," fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during his murderous rampage. ("Authorities Investigate Gun Sale: Rifle Used in Albertson's Slayings Wasn't Illegal," Rocky Mountain News, May 1, 1995)

It was featured promenantly on one of the tv news shows Dateline or 20/20.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 12:57:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers,
or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's
residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it
would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.




Ends that argument.



Except that little statement in the Constitution called the 2nd Ammendment. They were legally possessed per the Constituion, but illegal according to the ATF and our present Government.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:01:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By ARDunstan:

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers,
or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's
residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it
would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.




Ends that argument.



Except, no one other than a prosecution witness was allowed to inspect the supposedly modified guns. The defense was not allowed to do so to see if they had indeed been modified to fire FA. The BD's did have grenades, however.
Link Posted: 9/24/2004 1:19:26 PM EST
Funny thing about the Waco firearms is that they never showed one of these burned up "machine guns" on TV...but why would ATF lie?
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