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Posted: 9/7/2005 5:51:17 PM EDT
When I last renewed there was a woman in my class that was beyond incompentant with her weapon. She was shooting a small auto that looked like a Star .380. When the buzzer sounded she blew all her time trying to deactivate the safety. When she did manage to shoot she couldn't put all her rounds on target at 3 yards. She ended up failing the practical again that day. You get three tries to pass in TX but can only take two on the same day.

She had these really long fingernails that made manipulating anything damn near impossible. They were so long she couldn't or didn't know how to load her magazines. Of course most of the guys, including the instructor, lined up to load them for her.

I can just see her pulling the weapon and screwing with the safety until someone takes it away from her.

To digress a little, I think that the written and the practical are far too easy in TX. The student should not be afforded any help with their weapon short of a safety issue which should be an automatic fail, IMHO.

So tell us of the least deserving person(s) in your class.



Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:06:26 PM EDT
The lady who brought a new, in the wax paper never, fired gun to class. Also the guy who was planning to CC his Desert Eagle .44
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:10:18 PM EDT
the guy that showed up with long barrel mkI, constant jams and he didn't know how to clear it
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:12:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:13:22 PM EDT
when i took my ccw class 3 years ago. there was a guy in there that drank a whole 6 pack of Ale-8 in a matter of hours. We had to stop the video numerous times for "bathroom breaks"


what an idiot
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:15:55 PM EDT
My ex wife. Now she's armed.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:18:47 PM EDT
Guy next to me at the firing line was missing a silhouette target at 3 yards... Yes, he missed the ENTIRE target. You can damn near reach out & touch the damned thing.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:22:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Damned if I know, I didn't have to take a class to get a carry permit.



+1

Having to take a class to get your CCW? That's crazy talk. All you Texans should move to a free state.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:22:37 PM EDT
I think anyone who WANTS to and is QUALIFIED and CLEARED by the State to CCW should be left alone. There are some who obviously are clueless, and that's why there are standards that have to be met.

The classes will weed out the poor ones.....if they've got the determination and desire, then I'm glad they do.

I'm not sure why someone like that would bother you...the classes weed 'em out.

HH
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:31:11 PM EDT
I'm usually hard-core RKBA as they come, but when it comes to CCW, even I think there should be some sort of safety standard or demonstration of competence.

When I took my CCW range qualification, there was one Mall Ninja type there who claimed he was applying for the Federal Police (I guess he meant the security details that guard Federal buildings).

The guy put 2 rounds in the black, 4 rounds in the white and 4 rounds that missed the target hanger completely at 30'.

He claimed that he did much better when he was in the "service" and just needed to get reacquainted.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:32:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I think anyone who WANTS to and is QUALIFIED and CLEARED by the State to CCW should be left alone. There are some who obviously are clueless, and that's why there are standards that have to be met.

The classes will weed out the poor ones.....if they've got the determination and desire, then I'm glad they do.

I'm not sure why someone like that would bother you...the classes weed 'em out.

HH



One problem I have is that the classes are too easy, just my opinion. I've heard anecdotes of a legally blind person being able to pass the practical. If that's true, you can't tell me that the standards are sufficient.

I also think that the instructors should not be allowed to assist the students except in the case of a safety issue. If you're not compentent enough to be able to load your own magazines, then you have no business carrying that weapon.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:34:51 PM EDT
A Second Amendment Absolutionist would not require a CCW class in the first place.

That said, when I took a non-compulsary class at Sigarms I saw some pretty scary stuff. Thankfully they were quick learners.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:35:09 PM EDT
Everyone in my class of about 15 seemed semi sane, & capable. So I would say no one didn't deserve to get their ccl.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:38:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Damned if I know, I didn't have to take a class to get a carry permit.




ARFCOM Site Staff doe's have it's privileges... even in NY.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:38:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffC:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I think anyone who WANTS to and is QUALIFIED and CLEARED by the State to CCW should be left alone. There are some who obviously are clueless, and that's why there are standards that have to be met.

The classes will weed out the poor ones.....if they've got the determination and desire, then I'm glad they do.

I'm not sure why someone like that would bother you...the classes weed 'em out.

HH



One problem I have is that the classes are too easy, just my opinion. I've heard anecdotes of a legally blind person being able to pass the practical. If that's true, you can't tell me that the standards are sufficient.

I also think that the instructors should not be allowed to assist the students except in the case of a safety issue. If you're not compentent enough to be able to load your own magazines, then you have no business carrying that weapon.




Both of you---->

You can have a thread discussion crazy shit you've seen in a CCW class, but don't for one second say that CCW classes should be mandatory. It is a constitutional right, remember?

I can't believe the arrogance.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:39:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
I'm usually hard-core RKBA as they come, but when it comes to CCW, even I think there should be some sort of safety standard or demonstration of competence.



Apparently not.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:40:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffC:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I think anyone who WANTS to and is QUALIFIED and CLEARED by the State to CCW should be left alone. There are some who obviously are clueless, and that's why there are standards that have to be met.

The classes will weed out the poor ones.....if they've got the determination and desire, then I'm glad they do.

I'm not sure why someone like that would bother you...the classes weed 'em out.

HH



One problem I have is that the classes are too easy, just my opinion. I've heard anecdotes of a legally blind person being able to pass the practical. If that's true, you can't tell me that the standards are sufficient.

I also think that the instructors should not be allowed to assist the students except in the case of a safety issue. If you're not compentent enough to be able to load your own magazines, then you have no business carrying that weapon.





Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.



So just what part of not infringing the right to bear arms would allow the state to set totally arbitrary standards? Other than your opinion.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:46:52 PM EDT
We had a lady that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. The instructor took her brand new .38 and shot at her target once, to make sure the sights were atleast somewhat close. He drilled the target dead center. She ended up passing with a score of 12 hits out of 20, only because of the 1 shot that the instructor had put on her target
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:47:36 PM EDT
Having seen several hundred people through these courses I remember the categories more than the individuals. There is no practical requirement in OR, but our courses include one anyway -- mainly to try to convince people that they are not as good as they think they are, and that they need to practice.

Anyway, categories of people that worry me:

* The woman with the long finernails, no clue about how the gun operates, and who thinks that waving it around is all she will ever need to do, so isn't too interested in learning.

* The idiot who can't keep his finger off the trigger, and turns his whole body (and gun!) to talk to you.

* The person with the single action revolver, his friend with the el-cheapo/ancient semi-auto that last saw oil in 1949 and the person with the .44 desert eagle shooting right next to me (we have an indoor range...).

* The one with the useless gun that ends up borrowing mine, and keeps trying to see how well it bounces off the concrete floor.

* The 90 year-old who can't see the target.

* The 20 year old who shoots someone elses target.

and the ones that really piss me off:

* The nerdy looking one who bought the gun last week, and this is his second time using it and puts all 25 rounds into a hole you can cover with a quarter!

* The nerd's sister who has never shot a gun in her life and still manages to punch a hole even smaller than his!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:49:02 PM EDT
Had a guy show up with a NIB Llama 9mm that he picked up from the gun shop that morning.
It jammed about every 3 rd shot, once I think it made 4 shots before jamming. I loaned him my SIG 226 to qual with.
There was a woman there that had a PPK that was chewing the web of her hand up. A friend of mine loaned her a SIG 225 that he had. She shot in the 95% I believe it was. She told her husband/boyfriend to trade that PPK in for a SIG for her. He didn't look to pleased about that one.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:51:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Both of you---->

You can have a thread discussion crazy shit you've seen in a CCW class, but don't for one second say that CCW classes should be mandatory. It is a constitutional right, remember?

I can't believe the arrogance.



I didn't intend this to be a discussion of whether or not a CCW should even be required. My point about the standards is if there are going to be standards then make them mean something otherwise what's the point?

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:52:50 PM EDT
Older lady showed with up with her son...sounded like a last minute thing...Couldn't load her own mags...instructor tried to show her but she didn't have enough thumb to get them in on her own..I helped her by showing her to use the loading table for resistance....Later she confessed with all the noise and fumes that she thought she was going to pass out..with a pistol in her hand
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:56:57 PM EDT
The three guys in my class who did a mag dump when told to fire two rounds only.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:57:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:00:34 PM EDT
my favorite is the dude
who got charged with a weapons violation previous to the class....awaiting arraignment or whatever
took the class thinking that it would get him some leeway in his trial (yeah right)
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:02:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 7:25:12 PM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]
Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:

* The idiot who can't keep his finger off the trigger, and turns his whole body (and gun!) to talk to you.


thats kind of a good thing

your eyes follow the target; your hands follow your eyes; your gun follows your hands; stay on target

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:03:49 PM EDT
Yea only people that have a college degree should be able to assemble and have the right to have freedom of speach.

Do you people not see the irony or I guess similarity to those who would re-intrepret the 2nd amendment to their own ends. Do you only care if you can own and carry guns?

Dumbasses can drive a car, vote and get a job. They can own a gun to.

Freedom includes freedom to be stupid.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:04:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffC:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
I think anyone who WANTS to and is QUALIFIED and CLEARED by the State to CCW should be left alone. There are some who obviously are clueless, and that's why there are standards that have to be met.

The classes will weed out the poor ones.....if they've got the determination and desire, then I'm glad they do.

I'm not sure why someone like that would bother you...the classes weed 'em out.

HH



One problem I have is that the classes are too easy, just my opinion. I've heard anecdotes of a legally blind person being able to pass the practical. If that's true, you can't tell me that the standards are sufficient.

I also think that the instructors should not be allowed to assist the students except in the case of a safety issue. If you're not compentent enough to be able to load your own magazines, then you have no business carrying that weapon.




Jeff,

I don't think we're really that far apart here. Class hardness/easiness is set by the state. Students have to deal with either scenario. Instructors helping students might be another issue, though. I don't see anywhere that the instructor is allowed to assist the student.

It's really a moot point. You either CAN or CAN'T pass the background test and the classroom/shooting range test.

HH
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:06:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

What do you think the standard should be? Where my g/f got her CCW it sounds like she basically had to his the torso of a target from about 7 yards.



Well if the anecdote about the blind person is true, then they should be difficult enough where that person would not have passed. Proficiency should be made to include basic safety and the ability to operate the weapon without any assistance.

As far as the written goes, the instructor essentially teaches the answers to the test immediately before it's given.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:08:39 PM EDT

I've heard anecdotes of a legally blind person being able to pass the practical.

Without glasses my vision is 20/2500, and I passed my SC CCW class with a score of 48 out of 50 without my glasses on. The instructor didn't like the fact that I had glass rather than plastic lenses so he asked me to wear a pair of safety glasses. I couldn't see the black on the paper at the longer ranges, but I could tell where the large paper was since the background at the indoor range was completely black.

As far as incompetent shooters go, I was by far the worst one in my class. I have Parkinsons and was trying to shoot a Kel-Tec P32. Everyone in the class knew how to load their weapon, everyone except me (since I have a piece of junk P-32) cleared their own jams, and everyone hit the 3'x3' target with at least 45 out of 50 shots. Other than a revolver with a weak mainspring and my piece of junk Kel-Tec, there were only simple problems shooting. I was impressed with my classmates. I expected people like some of you guys described.z
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:08:54 PM EDT
A seciruty guard that barely passed the written and didn't do to well on the shooting part. The women did better then him.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:11:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 7:15:37 PM EDT by JeffC]

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Yea only people that have a college degree should be able to assemble and have the right to have freedom of speach.

Do you people not see the irony or I guess similarity to those who would re-intrepret the 2nd amendment to their own ends. Do you only care if you can own and carry guns?

Dumbasses can drive a car, vote and get a job. They can own a gun to.

Freedom includes freedom to be stupid.



I will stand down and say I agree with you. Perhaps it should be more apparent to these people that if they want to carry they should be more compentent than they apparently are.

I guess from a purely academic perspective, a worthless standard may as well not even exist.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:13:40 PM EDT
The old guy next to me on the firing line had never shot a gun before. he was borrowing a Berretta 92 from the instructor. We all began shooting our first 10rnds when he shoots 1 shot, bring the gun to his side one handed and proceeds to dump a round into the dirt exactly 6 inches from my foot. The instructor happened to be behind us and moved the guy to the end of the firing line by himself. He passed the class.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:20:16 PM EDT
It was pretty easy to pass my CCW class, all I had to do was fill out a form and get my fingerprints taken.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:20:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffC:

Originally Posted By C-4:

Both of you---->

You can have a thread discussion crazy shit you've seen in a CCW class, but don't for one second say that CCW classes should be mandatory. It is a constitutional right, remember?

I can't believe the arrogance.



I didn't intend this to be a discussion of whether or not a CCW should even be required. My point about the standards is if there are going to be standards then make them mean something otherwise what's the point?




The 'standard' for owning a handgun for the sole purpose of bringing to an indoor range to shoot in Stormont County, Ontario, Canda:

1) Join a handgun club (closest one was 1 1/2 hrs away)

2) Train on rented guns at the club

3) After one year, you must obtain a letter from the president of the club that you are a member in good standing and that they feel you are qualified to shoot and are competent with a revolver/pistol. If you only shot revolvers, then you cannot purchase a semi-auto pistol. The requirements to obtain this letter are completely arbitrary and are completely up to the president of the club.

4) Give the letter to the Firearms Officer, the officer in charge of issueing transfer permits (not CCW permits as these do not exist in Canada).

5) Go to a gun store and choose a firearm. Obtain Ser.#, make/model, etc.

6) Firearms Officer then reviews your request to purchase a handgun and may or may not issue you the transfer permit.

7) Once you are issued (or not) a transfer permit, you return to the gun store, pick up the gun and head straight back to the police station. They confirm the information.

8) You are now the proud owner of a handgun that must be kept locked at all times except when you want to shoot it at an indoor range only (no hunting allowed in Canada with handguns) and if you want to shoot your new handgun you must inform the Firearms Officer one week beforehand, take the shortest route to and from the range and no one but you may shoot the gun.

9) At any time, the police may come to your house and confiscate the handgun without a warrant.

I apologize for stomping on your thread, but any time someone mentions any restriction on guns my blood boils.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:25:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Damned if I know, I didn't have to take a class to get a carry permit.



+1

Having to take a class to get your CCW? That's crazy talk. All you Texans should move to a free state.



+2

And they call WA a blue state.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:25:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffC:
Perhaps it should be more apparent to these people that if they want to carry they should be more compentent than they apparently are.



Everyone here will agree that anyone who has a CCW should take a course and feel very comfortable with a handgun. The key word here is should. The second you make it compulsary is the second the state tramples all over your rights.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:34:50 PM EDT
My initial CHL class consisted of 4 people including me. I watch the paper daily for the other 3 guys. We had your proverbial 'security guard' who was IMO the least of all to get indicted. There was there was a bitter old man who was just looking to shoot someone. And then there was this 40 something middle school teacher who showed up w/ some kinda 9mm still in the box/plastic unopened. Oh, and did I mention he never shot a gun (anything) in his entire life.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:46:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
A Second Amendment Absolutionist would not require a CCW class in the first place.

That said, when I took a non-compulsary class at Sigarms I saw some pretty scary stuff. Thankfully they were quick learners.



Unfortunately, there are many who can't practice any freedom responsibly, whether it be speech, demostration, or the RKBA.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 7:54:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Yea only people that have a college degree should be able to assemble and have the right to have freedom of speach.

Do you people not see the irony or I guess similarity to those who would re-intrepret the 2nd amendment to their own ends. Do you only care if you can own and carry guns?

Dumbasses can drive a car, vote and get a job. They can own a gun to.

Freedom includes freedom to be stupid.



I know plenty of college 'educated' people who know neither how to drive nor handle guns. All they teach you in college (atleast for a bussiness major) is how to read, write, and express yourself better/more effectively, plus of course whatever the ONE SKILL you major in happens to be, and possibly some electives (don't recall any firearms or driving classes in my college, but I'm in NYC so what do I know).
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:00:42 PM EDT
mostly everone in the class I took it with. Significant number of them should not have passed, course this is in detroit
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:16:36 PM EDT
The CT ccw class wasn't bad at all. A classroom part and a shooting part. The written test was easy and I think that we had to shoot at 3 yards and ten yards. We had instructor issued Mark IIs and 38 revolvers.

There was one guy in the class that kept hitting the target holder hanging on the runner. That was kinda unnerving to see his target swinging every few shots. He was very nervous when he was shooting, physically shaking nervous.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:38:33 PM EDT
It's been a number of years since I took my CWP class. But I do remember one guy in particular. He had an old surplus pistol (Combloc maybe) that wouldn't slide lock. The instructor spent a lot of time explaining to him how to operate his pistol. I remember the guy kept riding the slide forward which kept the weapon from cocking properly. The instructor would say "Now pretend your shooting a sling shot. Just let go." And the guy would baby that slide forward as if it were glass. I was impressed that the instructor didn't lose his cool. The rest of us were about to. But what bothered me the most was the way he acted. He acted very nervously and even mumbled to himself once in a while. He didn't have a holster so he was supposed to keep the pistol in his back pocket. While I was waiting my turn on the firing line I noticed that he had pulled the pistol from his pocket and started fiddling with it. He saw me looking at him and he put it back. After the class when the instructor signed everyone's score sheet this guy literally jumped up, pumped his fist, ran to his pickup and drove off in a cloud of dust. I remember thinking I wonder if I'll read about that fellow one day in the news paper.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:45:02 PM EDT
God, I love living in Idaho. Here is all I had to do for a permit: (1) fill out two forms, (2) get fingerprinted, and (3) write a check for $52.50. That's it and I'm packin'!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:46:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 8:47:59 PM EDT by Zardoz]

* The nerdy looking one who bought the gun last week, and this is his second time using it and puts all 25 rounds into a hole you can cover with a quarter!
I have a friend like that. I helped him pick out his first and only firearm, a CZ75B. When we went to try it out, I gave him instructions on how it functioned, etc...first time he'd ever fired anything more powerful than a freakin' cap gun, and the bastard spent the rest of the day shooting bottle caps at anywhere from 5 to 15yds. He was shooting plastic soda bottles at 25, the dirty &%^#%$@#%$^!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:47:41 PM EDT
The guy in my class who had never fired any handgun before, and did not own one of his own. He borrowed a .357 Magnum Snub-Nose revolver, DAO no hammer, with a 15 lb. trigger pull..........


He couldn't hit the paper to save his life.


He ended up borrowing the instructor's Glock 23 and managed to *barely* pass.......
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 8:51:19 PM EDT
At my CCW class we just had to show we could handle a firearm in a safe manner. Nobdy ever looked the targets over or anything.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 4:28:08 AM EDT
Not a CCW class but an armed private security class. One of the female students was obviously a bubble headed blond during the classroom portion. She had never fired a gun before. She barely passed the written test.

I did not go to the range wiith the rest of the class due to other obligations. I go to the range a few weeks later and the instructor tells me about his experience with her at the range.

He tells me that she shows up with her dads pistol. I think it was either a Ruger P99 or a Kahr, I forget which. He has the class load rounds into mags and approach the line. When the class lines up he has them insert the mags, rack the slide, and reholster. The female in question immediately starts having problems. When he looked at her pistol it was jammed. It appears that she had loaded all of the rounds into the magazines backwards. When she racked the slide it actually fed a round and seated in the chamber. It was in so that the magazine would not even come out of the mag well. After a few minutes of considering how to deal with it, he escorted her off the range. He had her open the trunk of her car and he placed the pistol in the trunk. After locking the trunk, he told her to go straight home and have her dad to "fix" the gun.

He told me that he suspected she would be a problem but that was the first time he had seen that done. The round was apparently so jammed in that it would probably require pushing with a rod from the muzzle end. That was not something he was prepared to do with a class waiting. Plus he wanted her out of there anyway.

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 4:32:41 AM EDT
The well dressed couple, who didn't value their two lives any more than one Lorcin. On the second round fired, the slide stop broke and the upper parts flew down range.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 4:36:59 AM EDT
This is a funny thread. Here we are, on the internet's #1 gun site, a place purported to be full of 2nd ammendment advocates, and here's a bunch of you morons discussing whose freedom should be curtailed. You guys advocating these limitations suck. Fuckin Hypocrites.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 4:37:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PhilipPeake:
* The nerdy looking one who bought the gun last week, and this is his second time using it and puts all 25 rounds into a hole you can cover with a quarter!

* The nerd's sister who has never shot a gun in her life and still manages to punch a hole even smaller than his!!!

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