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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 12/19/2016 8:27:27 AM EST
The Pentagon’s emerging “Arsenal Plane” or “flying bomb truck” is likely to be a modified, high-tech adaptation of the iconic B-52 bomber designed to fire air-to-air weapons, release swarms of mini-drones and provide additional fire-power to 5th generation stealth fighters such as the F-35 and F-22, Pentagon officials and analysts said.

It is also possible that the emerging arsenal plane could be a modified C-130 or combined version of a B-52 and C-130 drawing from elements of each, Pentagon officials said.

Using a B-52, which is already being modernized with new radios and an expanded internal weapons bay, would provide an existing “militarized” platform already engineered with electronic warfare ability and countermeasures designed to thwart enemy air defenses.

“You are using a jet that already has a military capability. The B-52 is a military asset, whereas all the alternatives would have to be created. It has already been weaponized and has less of a radar cross-section compared to a large Air Force cargo plane. It is not a penetrating bomber, but it does have some kind of jamming and countermeasures meant to cope with enemy air defenses. It is wired for a combat mission,”
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http://www.scout.com/military/warrior/story/1650624-pentagon-arsenal-plane-to-fly-with-f-35-f-22?s=8

Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:37:24 AM EST
Interesting. All of the mock-ups I've seen always used the B1 Lancer as the missle truck.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:38:12 AM EST
Flight of the Old Dog, awesome.

Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:42:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2016 8:43:21 AM EST by Mal_means_bad]
Seems like the DOD expects the whole nature of air warfare to change with the F-35.  My impression from several articles is that F-35s in a very stealthy configuration (no external stores, weapons bay stays shut) will use bleeding edge sensors and communications to scout the enemy for many other stealth aircraft (rolling heavy with external stores) lurking at medium range and non-stealthy aircraft carrying big ass missiles at long range.  Probably some drones ahead of the F-35, getting even closer, prompting enemy reaction.  Is that about right?  Is there a good article explaining hypothetical F-35 tactics?
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:45:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Seems like the DOD expects the whole nature of air warfare to change with the F-35.  My impression from several articles is that F-35s in a very stealthy configuration (no external stores, weapons bay stays shut) will use bleeding edge sensors and communications to scout the enemy for many other stealth aircraft (rolling heavy with external stores) lurking at medium range and non-stealthy aircraft carrying big ass missiles at long range.  Probably some drones ahead of the F-35, getting even closer, prompting enemy reaction.  Is that about right?  Is there a good article explaining hypothetical F-35 tactics?
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NICE TRY CHINA, NOT TODAY
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:50:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DocBach:


NICE TRY CHINA, NOT TODAY
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I thought it was Russia trying to get our secret tactics?

I'm so confused as to who the real enemy is.   
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:53:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:54:05 AM EST
And how much BVR experience do we actually have in the real world? Zero or close to it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:55:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Dino:

I thought it was Russia trying to get our secret tactics?

I'm so confused as to who the real enemy is.   
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his avatar looked like some kind of Asian guy
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:56:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Seems like the DOD expects the whole nature of air warfare to change with the F-35.  My impression from several articles is that F-35s in a very stealthy configuration (no external stores, weapons bay stays shut) will use bleeding edge sensors and communications to scout the enemy for many other stealth aircraft (rolling heavy with external stores) lurking at medium range and non-stealthy aircraft carrying big ass missiles at long range.  Probably some drones ahead of the F-35, getting even closer, prompting enemy reaction.  Is that about right?  Is there a good article explaining hypothetical F-35 tactics?
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From the thread I started here from my discussion with a friend on a ship the war better end in 1 day . The F-35 has less reliability than a Yugo with wings
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 8:56:41 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DocBach:


his avatar looked like some kind of Asian guy
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Toshiro Mifune, he's Japanese.

Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:00:44 AM EST
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Originally Posted By AKengineer:
And how much BVR experience do we actually have in the real world? Zero or close to it.
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But isn't that largely because the ROE required positive ID of the target, a problem that a networked drone or stealth scout solves?
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:09:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2016 9:11:04 AM EST by AKengineer]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
But isn't that largely because the ROE required positive ID of the target, a problem that a networked drone or stealth scout solves?
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A technical solution never a stopped a bad ROE before. I just don't like spending all these tax dollars on this when we still have no actual BVR shootdowns. We are trying to run without verifying we can crawl.
ETA: Remember the Phoenix and what a piece of junk that turned out to be?
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:12:41 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Dino:
Flight of the Old Dog, awesome.
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Sci-Fi is loosing pace with reality.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:12:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:14:10 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DocBach:


NICE TRY CHINA, NOT TODAY
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My first thought as well.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:16:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2016 9:17:00 AM EST by broadrunarms]
Self-escorting platforms were tried with Zeppelins, B-17s, and, IIRC B-52s.

Never seemed to work as well as the idea on paper.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:17:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:25:38 AM EST
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Originally Posted By broadrunarms:
Self-escorting platforms were tried with Zeppelins, B-17s, and, IIRC B-52s.

Never seemed to work as well as the idea on paper.
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Zeppelins were at the dawning of air assets.

B-17s were doing that because small fighters didn't have the range to follow. As soon as they became capable, they took up escort duty.

We didn't even let military transport companies convoy without gun truck escort between Kuwait and COB Adder in late 2011. We'll escort it.

What's this crap about ROE effecting new tactics? ROE constantly changes, METTC. In total war between us and The Enemy (China), ROE would be so loose nothing else would dare to fly.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:28:02 AM EST
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Originally Posted By AKengineer:
And how much BVR experience do we actually have in the real world? Zero or close to it.
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Huh?
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:28:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2016 9:28:51 AM EST by AKengineer]
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Originally Posted By CavScout8:


Zeppelins were at the dawning of air assets.

B-17s were doing that because small fighters didn't have the range to follow. As soon as they became capable, they took up escort duty.

We didn't even let military transport companies convoy without gun truck escort between Kuwait and COB Adder in late 2011. We'll escort it.

What's this crap about ROE effecting new tactics? ROE constantly changes, METTC. In total war between us and The Enemy (China), ROE would be so loose nothing else would dare to fly.
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In an actual total war scenario we do not have enough air assets to have anything flying after a month.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:37:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/19/2016 9:38:23 AM EST by SmilingBandit]
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Originally Posted By whiskerz:




From the thread I started here from my discussion with a friend on a ship the war better end in 1 day . The F-35 has less reliability than a Yugo with wings
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Per the ACC/CC a 92.3% MC rate. Very terrible indeed.

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/07/air-combat-commander-bullish-on-f-35-ioc/
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:40:51 AM EST
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Originally Posted By AKengineer:

A technical solution never a stopped a bad ROE before. I just don't like spending all these tax dollars on this when we still have no actual BVR shootdowns. We are trying to run without verifying we can crawl.
ETA: Remember the Phoenix and what a piece of junk that turned out to be?
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How many bombers that they were shot at did Phoenixs miss?
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:50:14 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Dino:
Flight of the Old Dog, awesome.
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Link Posted: 12/19/2016 9:53:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By AKengineer:

A technical solution never a stopped a bad ROE before. I just don't like spending all these tax dollars on this when we still have no actual BVR shootdowns. We are trying to run without verifying we can crawl.
ETA: Remember the Phoenix and what a piece of junk that turned out to be?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKengineer:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
But isn't that largely because the ROE required positive ID of the target, a problem that a networked drone or stealth scout solves?

A technical solution never a stopped a bad ROE before. I just don't like spending all these tax dollars on this when we still have no actual BVR shootdowns. We are trying to run without verifying we can crawl.
ETA: Remember the Phoenix and what a piece of junk that turned out to be?



According to the CSBA Trends in Air Combat study, 16 of 33 fixed wing engagements in Desert Shield/Storm were BVR and that is before AIM-120 was fielded.

Phoenix was designed to counter a specific threat, formations of high speed bombers loaded with supersonic ASCM. The Iranians employed Phoenix quite a bit during the Iran-Iraq war to good effect.
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 10:09:47 AM EST
"Arsenal Plane"???? 

Have they been listening to the dumbshits who keep reviving Arsenal Ship for the Navy every 10 years or so?
Link Posted: 12/19/2016 10:32:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By AKengineer:



In an actual total war scenario we do not have enough air assets to have anything flying after a month.
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Which is okay as long as the enemy runs out in 2-3 weeks. Hopefully by investing in BVR weapons we kill the enemy before he gets in striking distance and thus preserve our own forces.
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