Did I just hear Condi say that Pelosi was informed about the spying deal?

On meet the prees right now I think I heard that leaders of all the parties were informed before we started the domestic listening.

Lot's of .gov folks knew


Bush didn't do it in secret

Quoted: Lot's of .gov folks knew Bush didn't do it in secret

I guess that's why this isnt such a big story. Cant throw too much mud if it's going to get all over your friends.

Of course.  Bush had counselled both the legislative and judicial branches of the government every 45 days over the course of three years.  They had every chance to voice their objections or give input on how to better handle the operation.  But the Democrats count on the relative ignorance of the average voter and the extreme hostility and unfairness of the news media to muddy the water and just hope impressions and accusations are enough to damage the president politically and undermine the public's trust of him.

Just as the European countries that harangued Condi Rice and US about the "horrible" practice of rendition and secret transport of terrorists.  Guess what?  They all knew about it for years, and gave Americans permission to land and operate in their countries.  But when the opportunity arose to take some cheap shots at big bad America and play up to the anti-American populism and conventional wisdom in Europe, European politicans lept at the chance.  Here's Colin Powell in an interview with the BBC a few days ago:

"There's a little bit of the movie Casablanca in this, where, you know, the inspector says 'I'm shocked, shocked that this kind of thing takes place'. "Well, most of our European friends cannot be shocked that this kind of thing takes place... The fact that we have, over the years, had procedures in place that would deal with people who are responsible for terrorist activities, or suspected of terrorist activities, and so the thing that is called rendition is not something that is new or unknown to my European friends."

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4538788.stm

Not to mention, these sorts of practices were conducted during the Clinton years, before 9/11.  Anyone care about looking into that?  Probably not, one can only guess why

There's a recurrent, predictable pattern in the criticism levelled against the Bush Administration.  Sensational, hysterical headlines suggesting a government that at turns is fascist, lying, incompetent, criminal, and deceitful turn out to be half-truths and distortions with the accusers often coming out as the ones playing fast and loose with the truth.

Quoted: Not to mention, these sorts of practices were conducted during the Clinton years, before 9/11.  Anyone care about looking into that?  Probably not, one can only guess why

Come into the real world. This sort of stuff has been going on routinely since at least 1967 that I know of.

Quoted: Quoted: Not to mention, these sorts of practices were conducted during the Clinton years, before 9/11.  Anyone care about looking into that?  Probably not, one can only guess why Come into the real world. This sort of stuff has been going on routinely since at least 1967 that I know of.

Try 60+ years this is a very old Cold War practice that actually dates back to WWII.

Nothing new, nothing illegal, nothing unconstitutional.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not to mention, these sorts of practices were conducted during the Clinton years, before 9/11.  Anyone care about looking into that?  Probably not, one can only guess why Come into the real world. This sort of stuff has been going on routinely since at least 1967 that I know of. Try 60+ years this is a very old Cold War practice that actually dates back to WWII.

I don't know about that. But I can  personally confirm that it was happening 40 years ago.

Nothing new, nothing illegal, nothing unconstitutional.

What I saw was clearly illegal.