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Posted: 12/18/2003 12:49:20 PM EDT
Hey guys, I know this has been asked 1000 times before...  But there's nothing in the past 30 days so I don't have access to it on this site.  

Our agency is getting some serious grant $$$ related to homeland security, and is looking at the issue of carrying patrol rifles instead of/in addition to shotguns.  I have been asked to write up a report on justifying patrol rifles.  Does anyone know of some good sources relating to this subject?  our guys have been laughed at before about this, but this time the administation is comming to us asking for info...  

Any help would be awsome!
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 1:10:53 PM EDT
The NTOA has a good info packet. You have to be a member though.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 2:45:41 PM EDT
FBI has some reports on the .223 that is helpful.

Art in KY
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:15:51 PM EDT
After the LA shootout the LAPD went to rifles to give them more firepower.  Gives us an ability to punch through body armor.  
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 5:58:58 PM EDT
To sum it up, touch on these: Accuracy over shotgun, quickness of needed follow-up shots, increases effective range, can be easily setup for CQB role/counter-sniper role as a result of the modular design.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:01:30 PM EDT
Sunnyvale PD in California did a great packet for their Chief on this about 6 years ago. Get a hold of one of their Range Masters and ask him to send you a copy. I had one but have lost it. I remember that it was well writen and set up for admin types to understand.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:26:41 PM EDT
Watersniper:

The first serious objection to patrol rifles will probably be the old overpenetration argument. You might want to check with Brouhaha or Tatjana or Charging Handle for some test results to defuse that issue. Or the FBI test results may have something to help you. Usually the Firearms Training Unit at Quantico can help you with that kind of question if you make an official request for information.

Hope you have good luck in getting the rifles. Our department has some surplus M-16s somewhere in the pipeline, and a couple of Bushmaster M-16s that I got by trading seized weapons for. A lot of the guys have bought their own rifles, either ARs, Mini-14s, or surplus M-1 carbines.

Maybe you should show them a tape of the North Hollywood shootout....
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:42:37 PM EDT
[url]http://www.remingtonle.com/rifle/7600.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 1:32:46 AM EDT
Just read a good article at Maryland AR15 sight. Some good info. My department just switched to .223 from 9mm. Took a new chief to do this though.

http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/patrolriflep1.msnw

Stay safe.
Link Posted: 12/21/2003 10:34:02 PM EDT
The state of CA Dept of Parks and Recreation just issued a ton of rifles to the park rangers. maybe you could find out their rfp, the state govt usually has pretty good paper trails.  someone in sacramento will have it.  I learned about it because i was asked by their rangemaster to show him how to deploy the weapon system (he already went to the official training but wanted to see how USMC, FrontSight etc trained people operate)....
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 6:29:30 AM EDT
Gentlemen,

THANK YOU for the info!  I think I'm heading in the right direction now...  I have some calls in to those agencies, and the web site links helped!
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 12:35:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 12:37:15 PM EDT by Recruit_Killer]
To solve the over penetration issue, (and this is for everyone)check International Cartridge Company.  The greatest revolution in Frang Ammo I have ever seen.  You can shoot steel at point blank with no splash!  Incredible... Talk to Joe Cory and tell him Chris from Texas sent ya, you will not be disappointed...
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:08:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By GREASE:
Just read a good article at Maryland AR15 sight. Some good info. My department just switched to .223 from 9mm. Took a new chief to do this though.
View Quote


May I suggest that you check out 3 articles on .223 vs. 9mm in rifles...

[url]http://www.olyarms.com/223pen.html[/url]
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