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Posted: 1/4/2012 10:21:46 AM EDT
A “balanced approach essentially means they are not doing anything bold at all,” Dov Zakheim, who was the Pentagon’s controller under President George W. Bush, said in an interview. “Everything gets cut.”
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and Army General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, will present at a news conference the Pentagon (USBODEFN)’s strategic review of U.S. roles and missions worldwide. The results will be parsed by allies and adversaries to assess where the U.S. may be pulling back, by military personnel wary of benefit cuts and by defense investors attempting to predict which contractors may benefit or lose out from the new priorities.
“We need to take a hard look” at all defense spending while maintaining U.S. military superiority, White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters in Washington yesterday. President Barack Obama has met with Panetta on the issue seven times since September, including a session yesterday, Carney said.
When Panetta’s predecessor as defense secretary, Robert Gates, announced the review last year, he said it was important for the public and Congress to get a full understanding of strategic choices for the U.S. military as it faced $450 billion in additional reductions through 2021, including about $261 billion through 2017.


http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-04/panetta-s-overhaul-of-defense-strategy-is-questioned-before-it-s-released.html
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:23:01 AM EDT
Thank you GOP for accepting terms for the supercommitee in the debt cieling showdown. You fucked yourselves again in the name of compromise.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:31:37 AM EDT
The DOD is going to get gutted. It is a fiscal reality. They and their supporters had a choice:

Choose the time and method of their gutting
Not choose the time and method of their gutting


I'll give Gates credit for trying, but in the end, the DOD and thier supporters chose the hide their head in the sand approach and let somebody else make the choice.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:37:15 AM EDT
I wish Obama was this concerned about cutting spending in the social arena? Has he met with anyone seven times to discuss that? I agree we need to take a hard look at everything, but I wish they'd address the rampant waste and social spending before they take a machete to defense
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:38:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Thank you GOP for accepting terms for the supercommitee in the debt cieling showdown. You fucked yourselves again in the name of compromise.


absolutely. screwing the DoD was the endgame all along.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:39:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By medicine_man:
I wish Obama was this concerned about cutting spending in the social arena? Has he met with anyone seven times to discuss that? I agree we need to take a hard look at everything, but I wish they'd address the rampant waste and social spending before they take a machete to defense


No way he'd cut his vote buying scheme. Not even a chance.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:40:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ghengiskhabb:
I'll give Gates credit for trying, but in the end, the DOD and thier supporters chose the hide their head in the sand approach and let somebody else make the choice.


The DOD has been cutting programs left and right for 24 months.

Meanwhile, what cuts have occurred in Medicaid, Medicare, SSI, or other manditory entitlements?


Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:41:51 AM EDT
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:43:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By ghengiskhabb:
I'll give Gates credit for trying, but in the end, the DOD and thier supporters chose the hide their head in the sand approach and let somebody else make the choice.


The DOD has been cutting programs left and right for 24 months.

Meanwhile, what cuts have occurred in Medicaid, Medicare, SSI, or other manditory entitlements?




Social programs won't get cut by Obama, hell they were expanded under Bush (and Bush, and Reagan, etc....). The DOD is the most expendable by Rs and Ds alike.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:44:07 AM EDT
The whole federal budget needs cutting.

Everything should be on the chopping block; not just DOD
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:46:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:48:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:52:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.


If you buy that "we gotta start somewhere" line as meaning meaningful cuts to social spending are forthcoming, I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma I'll sell you....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:54:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:

separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.


If by "somewhere" you mean, "everywhere," you're correct.

However, there has been absolutely no talk of meaningful entitlement reform. Not by Republican candidates, or Congress, or the Democrats.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:57:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


There is no separate issue. Everyone has to get cut. However, don't expect the Military to take debilitating cuts and never cut the social programs. That will lead to ruin.


Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:58:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


One is a Constitutional mandate (national defense) and one is not. One is legal and one is not. It is not "just spending." When you reduce EVERYTHING to "just money," you fail.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:58:53 AM EDT
End all welfare, completely. Completely secure the borders. Deport all illegals.

Once all of that is done then we shall discuss cutting America's defense. Until then, get fucked.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 10:59:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.


If you buy that "we gotta start somewhere" line as meaning meaningful cuts to social spending are forthcoming, I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma I'll sell you....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Do you contend there aren't cuts that can be made in the DOD?

If there is waste that can be cut from DOD it should be cut, no matter what other "reforms" happen elsewhere.

To argue, or posture otherwise is asinine. It has nothing to do with if anything else gets cut, if there is waste or things that aren't necessary they should be done away with.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:01:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Thank you GOP for accepting terms for the supercommitee in the debt cieling showdown. You fucked yourselves again in the name of compromise.



Yes, the GOP gets the short end of the stick every time they negotiate with the Dems. You would think they would figure it out eventually, but apparently not.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:01:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Warpiper:
End all welfare, completely. Completely secure the borders. Deport all illegals.

Once all of that is done then we shall discuss cutting America's defense. Until then, get fucked.


The end of welfare is the end of the Democratic Party. Without a controlling interest in significant parts of the economy (agriculture through subsidies and food stamps, medical care through Medicare/Medicade/SSI) the D have no reason to exist. Thus, they will fight any change in the welfare state to the point where the whole fiscal structure collapses.

Neither party wants to secure the border (for different reasons) and thus we'll continue to have an illegal immigration problem.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:03:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zdog:
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Thank you GOP for accepting terms for the supercommitee in the debt cieling showdown. You fucked yourselves again in the name of compromise.



Yes, the GOP gets the short end of the stick every time they negotiate with the Dems. You would think they would figure it out eventually, but apparently not.


Because the political class realizes that once you start making significant changes to existing welfare social contract, the continued existence of the political class is increasingly unlikely regardless of political affliation. This is why both parties are committed to essentially a status quo position, despite the mathemathical certainty of its failure.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:05:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.


If you buy that "we gotta start somewhere" line as meaning meaningful cuts to social spending are forthcoming, I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma I'll sell you....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Do you contend there aren't cuts that can be made in the DOD?

If there is waste that can be cut from DOD it should be cut, no matter what other "reforms" happen elsewhere.

To argue, or posture otherwise is asinine. It has nothing to do with if anything else gets cut, if there is waste or things that aren't necessary they should be done away with.



The waste in DOD is largley in procurement methods and those methods are forced upon DOD by congress.

The procurement waste is not something DOD chooses...it is made into law by the same people now complaining about the costs.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:08:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.


If you buy that "we gotta start somewhere" line as meaning meaningful cuts to social spending are forthcoming, I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma I'll sell you....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Do you contend there aren't cuts that can be made in the DOD?

If there is waste that can be cut from DOD it should be cut, no matter what other "reforms" happen elsewhere.

To argue, or posture otherwise is asinine. It has nothing to do with if anything else gets cut, if there is waste or things that aren't necessary they should be done away with.


I have yet to see anyone here say that DoD doesn't need to be cut. The problem is that DoD is the only program that will see meaningful cuts even though social programs cost just as much, if not more, and won't see any real cuts at all.

So in the end, we lose readiness and have little impact on the overall government spending.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:08:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Warpiper:
End all welfare, completely. Completely secure the borders. Deport all illegals.

Once all of that is done then we shall discuss cutting America's defense. Until then, get fucked.


This
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:10:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 11:11:22 AM EDT by h3smith]
Originally Posted By LockingBlock:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.


If you buy that "we gotta start somewhere" line as meaning meaningful cuts to social spending are forthcoming, I've got some ocean front property in Oklahoma I'll sell you....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Do you contend there aren't cuts that can be made in the DOD?

If there is waste that can be cut from DOD it should be cut, no matter what other "reforms" happen elsewhere.

To argue, or posture otherwise is asinine. It has nothing to do with if anything else gets cut, if there is waste or things that aren't necessary they should be done away with.



The waste in DOD is largley in procurement methods and those methods are forced upon DOD by congress.

The procurement waste is not something DOD chooses...it is made into law by the same people now complaining about the costs.



There are plenty of folk in the DOD that sit on their asses all day to and do nothing productive (Plenty of civilians while the young enlisted guys are busting their asses). Yet, when there are billets open that need people do do work, they just can't get the funding for it.

But procurement needs to be fixed as well. I've signed off for $1200 LCD monitor that I could find on Newegg for $200. The process is broken in many ways. The DOD is just too much of a bureaucracy and it has too much waste and redundancy.

I am doubtful anyone will fix a thing, for the better.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:14:26 AM EDT
Since pretty much every response in this thread is the usually, predictable, incorrect blame game blather.....

Let me stress once again that the American people are no longer interested in policing the world. Is there really any reason to have military in Germany anymore?

Looks to me that a certain candidate's message is catching on. Has nothing to due with Republicans folding on Social Security. The Republican base is old and reject all types of social

programs until it applies to their own lives. At which point, explanations are offered as to why it's ok for them to receive entitlements.

Here's a tip boys: stop pretending you want entitlement programs cut, because you certainly do not.

100 billion dollars yearly on the domestic end goes into the war on U.S. Citizens, er, I mean the war on drugs. This does not account for the vast amount of dollars we supply the third

world with to wage Nixon's drug war. Stop your drug war and for profit prison industry and you might find some extra change in the couch to go visit an American ship at port when you take

the vacations abroad that are promised to you on pharmaceutical commercials.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:17:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By patriot73:
Since pretty much every response in this thread is the usually, predictable, incorrect blame game blather.....

Let me stress once again that the American people are no longer interested in policing the world. Is there really any reason to have military in Germany anymore?

Looks to me that a certain candidate's message is catching on. Has nothing to due with Republicans folding on Social Security. The Republican base is old and reject all types of social

programs until it applies to their own lives. At which point, explanations are offered as to why it's ok for them to receive entitlements.

Here's a tip boys: stop pretending you want entitlement programs cut, because you certainly do not.

100 billion dollars yearly on the domestic end goes into the war on U.S. Citizens, er, I mean the war on drugs. This does not account for the vast amount of dollars we supply the third

world with to wage Nixon's drug war. Stop your drug war and for profit prison industry and you might find some extra change in the couch to go visit an American ship at port when you take

the vacations abroad that are promised to you on pharmaceutical commercials.


You just want that crack you're smoking to be legalized...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:20:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By patriot73:
Since pretty much every response in this thread is the usually, predictable, incorrect blame game blather.....

Let me stress once again that the American people are no longer interested in policing the world. Is there really any reason to have military in Germany anymore?

Looks to me that a certain candidate's message is catching on. Has nothing to due with Republicans folding on Social Security. The Republican base is old and reject all types of social

programs until it applies to their own lives. At which point, explanations are offered as to why it's ok for them to receive entitlements.

Here's a tip boys: stop pretending you want entitlement programs cut, because you certainly do not.

100 billion dollars yearly on the domestic end goes into the war on U.S. Citizens, er, I mean the war on drugs. This does not account for the vast amount of dollars we supply the third

world with to wage Nixon's drug war. Stop your drug war and for profit prison industry and you might find some extra change in the couch to go visit an American ship at port when you take

the vacations abroad that are promised to you on pharmaceutical commercials.


Oh for fucks sake, you sound like that crazy career politician running for POTUS.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:23:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Since pretty much every response in this thread is the usually, predictable, incorrect blame game blather.....

Let me stress once again that the American people are no longer interested in policing the world. Is there really any reason to have military in Germany anymore?

Looks to me that a certain candidate's message is catching on. Has nothing to due with Republicans folding on Social Security. The Republican base is old and reject all types of social

programs until it applies to their own lives. At which point, explanations are offered as to why it's ok for them to receive entitlements.

Here's a tip boys: stop pretending you want entitlement programs cut, because you certainly do not.

100 billion dollars yearly on the domestic end goes into the war on U.S. Citizens, er, I mean the war on drugs. This does not account for the vast amount of dollars we supply the third

world with to wage Nixon's drug war. Stop your drug war and for profit prison industry and you might find some extra change in the couch to go visit an American ship at port when you take

the vacations abroad that are promised to you on pharmaceutical commercials.

I don't know what that sounded like in your head but I read it in a hippy passing the doobie voice and added alot of "Man".
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:28:44 AM EDT

I'm going to post this graphic until I wear it out.



Patriot73...you realize you're arguing about a tiny sliver at the top, somewhere between the National Park Service and NASA?
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 11:32:11 AM EDT
A Democratic administration gutting the military?

What a shock. Next thing you know they will want to raise taxes.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 12:02:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:

I'm going to post this graphic until I wear it out.

http://www.capitolreportnewmexico.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/federal-spending-vs-revenue.jpg

Patriot73...you realize you're arguing about a tiny sliver at the top, somewhere between the National Park Service and NASA?


He does. You didn't read his post.

Those big bars at the bottom, they aren't getting cut. We can all whine and stamp our feet, but there are people being bought off with those big bars and we call them grandma and grandpa, and no politician is going to stop buying them off (with our children's money) so it is only the stuff at the top getting cut.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 12:09:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By zdog:
Originally Posted By Chuy123:
Thank you GOP for accepting terms for the supercommitee in the debt cieling showdown. You fucked yourselves again in the name of compromise.



Yes, the GOP gets the short end of the stick every time they negotiate with the Dems. You would think they would figure it out eventually, but apparently not.


Because the political class realizes that once you start making significant changes to existing welfare social contract, the continued existence of the political class is increasingly unlikely regardless of political affliation. This is why both parties are committed to essentially a status quo position, despite the mathemathical certainty of its failure.


The final result of politicians attempting to reduce entitlement payments:

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 12:18:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By patriot73:
Since pretty much every response in this thread is the usually, predictable, incorrect blame game blather.....

Let me stress once again that the American people are no longer interested in policing the world. Is there really any reason to have military in Germany anymore?


Americans are interested in the lifestyle that comes from international trade, yes? In order to provide that, the security of the high seas must be maintained by someone. That someone - the ONLY someone capable - is us. It will be 50 years - at a minimum - before any other nation is in a position to secure the trade routes throughout the world that enable our lifestyle. So, while they may not KNOW they support it, they support American policing of the globe.

Looks to me that a certain candidate's message is catching on. Has nothing to due with Republicans folding on Social Security. The Republican base is old and reject all types of social

programs until it applies to their own lives. At which point, explanations are offered as to why it's ok for them to receive entitlements.

Here's a tip boys: stop pretending you want entitlement programs cut, because you certainly do not.


You can have what I've paid into SS in exchange for no more payments from me to the .gov under the guise of SS. There is no such thing as an entitlement - a mandatory entitlement is even more laughable. Suggesting there is an entitlement neglects the truth that, the thing to which you believe yourself entitled, is taken - at the point of a sword - from someone who earned it.

100 billion dollars yearly on the domestic end goes into the war on U.S. Citizens, er, I mean the war on drugs. This does not account for the vast amount of dollars we supply the third

world with to wage Nixon's drug war. Stop your drug war and for profit prison industry and you might find some extra change in the couch to go visit an American ship at port when you take

the vacations abroad that are promised to you on pharmaceutical commercials.


On this we agree.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 12:28:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead08:

Originally Posted By patriot73:
Since pretty much every response in this thread is the usually, predictable, incorrect blame game blather.....

Let me stress once again that the American people are no longer interested in policing the world. Is there really any reason to have military in Germany anymore?

Looks to me that a certain candidate's message is catching on. Has nothing to due with Republicans folding on Social Security. The Republican base is old and reject all types of social

programs until it applies to their own lives. At which point, explanations are offered as to why it's ok for them to receive entitlements.

Here's a tip boys: stop pretending you want entitlement programs cut, because you certainly do not.

100 billion dollars yearly on the domestic end goes into the war on U.S. Citizens, er, I mean the war on drugs. This does not account for the vast amount of dollars we supply the third

world with to wage Nixon's drug war. Stop your drug war and for profit prison industry and you might find some extra change in the couch to go visit an American ship at port when you take

the vacations abroad that are promised to you on pharmaceutical commercials.

I don't know what that sounded like in your head but I read it in a hippy passing the doobie voice and added alot of "Man".


I don't give a flying fuck how you read it, honestly. We are all aware that from you and your Romper Room cohorts perspective, everyone who supports Paul is a hippie. communist,

pothead, traitor, democrat union member. Again, that shit may fly at the Rolla NAPA counter, but not with the rest of the country.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 12:31:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By medicine_man:
I wish Obama was this concerned about cutting spending in the social arena? Has he met with anyone seven times to discuss that? I agree we need to take a hard look at everything, but I wish they'd address the rampant waste and social spending before they take a machete to defense


Pork and social programs? Pshhhhh like hell. That's where they get their votes and money!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:06:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ghengiskhabb:

He does. You didn't read his post.

Those big bars at the bottom, they aren't getting cut. We can all whine and stamp our feet, but there are people being bought off with those big bars and we call them grandma and grandpa, and no politician is going to stop buying them off (with our children's money) so it is only the stuff at the top getting cut.



You didn't look at the chart.

We can zero out EVERY discretionary dollar we spend and STILL not be solvent.

The chart I didn't post is the one where the crowd-out effect of debt service starts rolling 2015 or so. Unless those entitlements are cuts, we're in a fiscal death spiral that's only getting tighter. Even if those entitlements get cut, it might be too late. If they don't get cut, the crash will occur that much sooner. Grandma might absolutely demand that we show up with an Ed MacManon-sized check, but it won't matter. The turnip will have no blood in it.

Demanding we stop the Drug War to balance the budget is nearly as mindless as thinking defense cuts will do it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:08:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mryenko:

The final result of politicians attempting to reduce entitlement payments:




There will be blood then. The numbers don't lie.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:12:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By ghengiskhabb:

He does. You didn't read his post.

Those big bars at the bottom, they aren't getting cut. We can all whine and stamp our feet, but there are people being bought off with those big bars and we call them grandma and grandpa, and no politician is going to stop buying them off (with our children's money) so it is only the stuff at the top getting cut.



You didn't look at the chart.

We can zero out EVERY discretionary dollar we spend and STILL not be solvent.

The chart I didn't post is the one where the crowd-out effect of debt service starts rolling 2015 or so. Unless those entitlements are cuts, we're in a fiscal death spiral that's only getting tighter. Even if those entitlements get cut, it might be too late. If they don't get cut, the crash will occur that much sooner. Grandma might absolutely demand that we show up with an Ed MacManon-sized check, but it won't matter. The turnip will have no blood in it.

Demanding we stop the Drug War to balance the budget is nearly as mindless as thinking defense cuts will do it.


I fully understand the chart. I understand people. There is a contradiction that will have to be resolved and the DOD is going under the bus first regardless of which party is running the show.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:16:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 1:16:39 PM EDT by cwm1150]
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By Mryenko:

The final result of politicians attempting to reduce entitlement payments:

]http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3990/30076030.jpg]



There will be blood then. The numbers don't lie.


This, and it should be sooner than later................that way we can take them out much sooner.

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:17:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By medicine_man:
I wish Obama was this concerned about cutting spending in the social arena? Has he met with anyone seven times to discuss that? I agree we need to take a hard look at everything, but I wish they'd address the rampant waste and social spending before they take a machete to defense

At least defense spending creates jobs and products, social programs produce welfare recipients

Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:17:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By medicine_man:
I wish Obama was this concerned about cutting spending in the social arena? Has he met with anyone seven times to discuss that? I agree we need to take a hard look at everything, but I wish they'd address the rampant waste and social spending before they take a machete to defense

They have absolutely no intention of doing that. The goal of government is to grow larger and more powerful every year.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:19:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mryenko:


The final result of politicians attempting to reduce entitlement payments:

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3990/30076030.jpg

Bring it
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:24:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cwm1150:
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By Mryenko:

The final result of politicians attempting to reduce entitlement payments:

]http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3990/30076030.jpg]



There will be blood then. The numbers don't lie.


This, and it should be sooner than later................that way we can take them out much sooner.



I don't want it to occur, but when the time comes, we'll have no choice.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:31:27 PM EDT
99.9% of the people here are pro military myself included. To deny the fact that we spend a huge amount stationing assets in countries that can fend for themselves is assine. The amount of corporate welfare in the procurement system is unmeasurable. Political corruption due to donations by defense contractors/lobbies is common. I am with IKE the whole system needs work, The only thing honorable in the whole mess is the individual solider God bless them.

I am just trying to say systems could be brought online at lower cost if the powers that be were not in bed with the corporations. How many Flag officers retire to go to work as a company rep at a high salary? Does their new paycheck cover salary going forward are is it payment for past favors?
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:38:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:40:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By medicine_man:
I wish Obama was this concerned about cutting spending in the social arena? Has he met with anyone seven times to discuss that? I agree we need to take a hard look at everything, but I wish they'd address the rampant waste and social spending before they take a machete to defense


Obama knows the military doesn't support him. An overwhelming number of officers and many, many elisted all vote Red. Him putting the screws to us won't hurt him come election day.


Cutting welfare on the other hand....
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:43:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Originally Posted By Ventilator:
Originally Posted By h3smith:
Everyone cries about the DOD being cut but there is a LOT of fat to trim. Anyone that denies it is a flat out liar.

What % can be cut? Well no idea. But there is absolutely too much waste that can be easily done away with.



In before the criers that welfare isn't being cut, which is a separate issue.


It's not a separate issue. Welfare spending is spending....just like defense spending is spending. ALL spending needs to be cut. I'm pissed that defense is being slashed and social programs aren't. We all need to take a bite out of this shit sandwich...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


separate but the same, everything needs the axe. but to say we shouldn't cut DOD because other stuff isn't being cut isn't helpful. gotta start somewhere.


You can cut 100 percent of Defense Spending and we will still go bankrupt.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:47:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2012 1:50:05 PM EDT by R0N]
Originally Posted By h3smith:

But procurement needs to be fixed as well. I've signed off for $1200 LCD monitor that I could find on Newegg for $200. The process is broken in many ways. The DOD is just too much of a bureaucracy and it has too much waste and redundancy.

I am doubtful anyone will fix a thing, for the better.


Why did you sign off on it? My guys bring things for my approval all the time that they want to buy or TAD they want to do and I say no because that is being a good steward of the tax payers money.
Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:48:24 PM EDT

Those that do work for .gov, many of whom risk their lives for us, get fucked.

Those that contribute nothing to the Nation, keep receiving their benefits, no cuts...


America is no longer America








Link Posted: 1/4/2012 1:52:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By h3smith:

But procurement needs to be fixed as well. I've signed off for $1200 LCD monitor that I could find on Newegg for $200. The process is broken in many ways. The DOD is just too much of a bureaucracy and it has too much waste and redundancy.

I am doubtful anyone will fix a thing, for the better.


Why did you sign off on it? My guys bring things for my approval all the time that they want to buy or TAD they want to do and I say no because that is being a good steward of the tax payers money.


Because it was not his money.
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