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Posted: 11/16/2012 5:15:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/21/2012 11:30:51 AM EST by BillyDoubleU]
http://www.metalinsider.net/digital-media/megadeth-rush-skid-row-and-more-among-125-artists-who-signed-open-letter-to-pandora-over-compensation

I love how some really big name acts are on there.

Still amazes me how anyone can make a living on music these days.

So basically Artist want more royalties paid and Panadora wants to cut it by 85% and wants Congress to pass a bill as such.

ETA: 11/21

Saw this today and adds a little more to it

http://www.metalinsider.net/internet-radio/online-streaming-services-still-not-paying-songwriters

My BMI royalty check arrived recently, reporting songwriting earnings from the first quarter of 2012, and I was glad to see that our music is being listened to via these services. Galaxie 500′s “Tugboat”, for example, was played 7,800 times on Pandora that quarter, for which its three songwriters were paid a collective total of 21 cents, or seven cents each. Spotify pays better: For the 5,960 times “Tugboat” was played there, Galaxie 500′s songwriters went collectively into triple digits: $1.05 (35 cents each). To put this into perspective: Since we own our own recordings, by my calculation it would take songwriting royalties for roughly 312,000 plays on Pandora to earn us the profit of one–one– LP sale. (On Spotify, one LP is equivalent to 47,680 plays.)


Trivium frontman/guitarist Matt Heafy has given some sobering insight into the current state of the music industry (or at the very least the bands records sales.) He recently tweeted a picture of his royalty check with the caption: “Dear state of the music industry, Thanks a heap for this massive royalty check.”


It was for $1.21...

http://www.theprp.com/2011/12/28/news/trivium-frontman-matt-heafy-tweets-his-royalty-check/
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:17:03 AM EST
pandora should just take them off and see how they like no money from them at all
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:19:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
pandora should just take them off and see how they like no money from them at all


That's really the answer.

Either side going to Congress is chickenshit.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:21:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By RealFastV6:
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
pandora should just take them off and see how they like no money from them at all


That's really the answer.

Either side going to Congress is chickenshit.


agreed.

Pandora should just say, this is what we'll give you, if you don't like it then doing sign on.

musicians are like a giant union of egotistical cry baby pussies. They bitch about people downloading music from torrents then when something like pandora comes along and is fucking awesome they get pissed when they can't have a giant slice of pie. Those 125 artists should go make their own station and charge a shit load to listen to it and see how that works out
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:22:44 AM EST
Wow, saw Ted Nugent and Zac Brown Band on that list
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:26:40 AM EST
No fucks left to give.

Get a real job.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:28:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Curacao0311:
Wow, saw Ted Nugent and Zac Brown Band on that list


I can understand small time bands but the big time guys, come on...

The little fish are struggling to start with but at the same time the smaller bands that I listen to are not on that list, go figure.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:40:52 AM EST
Meanwhile Sirus pays significantly less royalties. The artists and Pandora need to sit together or Pandora should choose not to play the music of the artists who are being unreasonable.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:40:58 AM EST
There are a lot of talented starving musicians out there who never had a break because they weren't the right material to be shoved into the pop machine to be formed into some commercial mass marketable garbage that was easily shoved down everyone's throats.

Plenty of them would be happy to take a fraction of the royalties Pandora offers to these assholes.

The internet is leveling the playing field and letting people know there are millions of other options out there for good music and all these millionaire rock star pussies aren't happy about it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:43:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By HardEight:
There are a lot of talented starving musicians out there who never had a break because they weren't the right material to be shoved into the pop machine to be formed into some commercial mass marketable garbage that was easily shoved down everyone's throats.

Plenty of them would be happy to take a fraction of the royalties Pandora offers to these assholes.

The internet is leveling the playing field and letting people know there are millions of other options out there for good music and all these millionaire rock star pussies aren't happy about it.


pandora has played all kinds of awesome music I've never heard before. I love it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:47:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
Originally Posted By HardEight:
There are a lot of talented starving musicians out there who never had a break because they weren't the right material to be shoved into the pop machine to be formed into some commercial mass marketable garbage that was easily shoved down everyone's throats.

Plenty of them would be happy to take a fraction of the royalties Pandora offers to these assholes.

The internet is leveling the playing field and letting people know there are millions of other options out there for good music and all these millionaire rock star pussies aren't happy about it.


pandora has played all kinds of awesome music I've never heard before. I love it.


+1

I've run into some good stuff for my kids that I enjoyed as well. Then I head to my iTunes and buy the song or album if it's worth it. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's done that either. Seems to me that would off set some of those royalties.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:48:15 AM EST
What happened to the days when bands begged to get air time.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:51:20 AM EST
Well here we go again...


A lot of those dumb bastards better realize that without Pandora and such platforms, they are going to get forgotten. When that happens, albums sales drop, concert promoters aren't willing to pay big bucks for a faded out band and the audience will move on to something else they hear.


Artists tend to forget that they need stations playing their stuff.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:51:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Ciraxis:
Originally Posted By HardEight:
There are a lot of talented starving musicians out there who never had a break because they weren't the right material to be shoved into the pop machine to be formed into some commercial mass marketable garbage that was easily shoved down everyone's throats.

Plenty of them would be happy to take a fraction of the royalties Pandora offers to these assholes.

The internet is leveling the playing field and letting people know there are millions of other options out there for good music and all these millionaire rock star pussies aren't happy about it.


pandora has played all kinds of awesome music I've never heard before. I love it.


I figure that's what this is about.

"Waaahhhh, we don't have a strangehold on the market anymore. Give us more money! Don't give it to those guys from Tennessee that nobody would've ever heard of without internet radio and would stay that way if I had my way."
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:53:51 AM EST
Wait , congress should be busy doing other more important things like ,umm ...I dont know balancing our budget.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:59:08 AM EST
In related news the head of Roadrunner Records stepped down yesterday accompanying many lay offs.

Best part is the new owners have no idea of what music and history RR does/has. Pretty clear in their statement release lol.

The RR machine is great if they can make money off of a band, if not they use you up and leave you to die. I'm sure that's not exclusive to RR but following metal I've seen it with bands I've followed.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 5:59:51 AM EST
Crap like this bugs me. Pandora makes a buttload of cash following the current royalty laws and contracts. Then they decide they want to make more money, buy some congressmen and make advantageous changes that fuck the artists they're making money off of.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:27:33 AM EST
Writing a song and every time it is played expecting a check forever is kinda .

By that logic, I guess every time they turn on the AC, the HVAC guy should get a dime.


Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:26:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Writing a song and every time it is played expecting a check forever is kinda .

By that logic, I guess every time they turn on the AC, the HVAC guy should get a dime.




It's an interesting question. Say you buy an album for $10. Now you own a physical copy of that material and are free to play it as often and anywhere you want for the rest of your life etc...

But a radio station whether Internet or traditional have to pay royalties on that music when they play it for the masses. Seems as though a radio station should be able to purchase the music and play to their desire. I'm sure the Labels have legalities inplace to prevent that but it's an interesting idea.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:29:06 AM EST
in the meantime, the record companies continue getting 80%+ of an artists sales

bands today make their $$ in touring and merchandise
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:30:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Writing a song and every time it is played expecting a check forever is kinda .

By that logic, I guess every time they turn on the AC, the HVAC guy should get a dime.




It's an interesting question. Say you buy an album for $10. Now you own a physical copy of that material and are free to play it as often and anywhere you want for the rest of your life etc...

But a radio station whether Internet or traditional have to pay royalties on that music when they play it for the masses. Seems as though a radio station should be able to purchase the music and play to their desire. I'm sure the Labels have legalities inplace to prevent that but it's an interesting idea.

iirc, radio stations dont pay royalties; satellite radio pays 10% royalties; internet radio pays something around 50%
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:32:31 AM EST
If I never heard another Rush or Skid Row song ever again, I would really appreciate it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:33:18 AM EST
Pandora has been an excellent gateway for upstarting artists to reach new audiences. There are many, many times I've looked up an artist I've never heard before and somewhere in the comments it will mention Pandora being a large contributor to the exposure they're getting.

The big guys can stop whining. Their music is still being played and if they don't like it they can request to not be played on Pandora and they can stop getting those checks entirely.

Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:38:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
If I never heard another Rush or Skid Row song ever again, I would really appreciate it.


Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:39:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By mcantu:

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Writing a song and every time it is played expecting a check forever is kinda .

By that logic, I guess every time they turn on the AC, the HVAC guy should get a dime.




It's an interesting question. Say you buy an album for $10. Now you own a physical copy of that material and are free to play it as often and anywhere you want for the rest of your life etc...

But a radio station whether Internet or traditional have to pay royalties on that music when they play it for the masses. Seems as though a radio station should be able to purchase the music and play to their desire. I'm sure the Labels have legalities inplace to prevent that but it's an interesting idea.

iirc, radio stations dont pay royalties; satellite radio pays 10% royalties; internet radio pays something around 50%


Really, I thought I read something that radio did as well but it was a very small amount?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 8:51:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By mcantu:

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Writing a song and every time it is played expecting a check forever is kinda .

By that logic, I guess every time they turn on the AC, the HVAC guy should get a dime.




It's an interesting question. Say you buy an album for $10. Now you own a physical copy of that material and are free to play it as often and anywhere you want for the rest of your life etc...

But a radio station whether Internet or traditional have to pay royalties on that music when they play it for the masses. Seems as though a radio station should be able to purchase the music and play to their desire. I'm sure the Labels have legalities inplace to prevent that but it's an interesting idea.

iirc, radio stations dont pay royalties; satellite radio pays 10% royalties; internet radio pays something around 50%


Really, I thought I read something that radio did as well but it was a very small amount?

Terrestrial Radio does, but it's far less. Doing Internet Radio (legally) is a fucking nightmare.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:26:21 AM EST
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:39:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By kyfortean:
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.


I'm in the middle, I don't know enough about it but I'm against any gov regulations. In music the artist always gets screwed so I'm for artist getting more back. Now my bias is for the little guys, IDGAF about those pop giants. But tons of smaller bands can't even live off their music.

Just recently the frontman/singer of Suffocation stated he could no longer tour with his band due to having a good day job to pay the bills. The music industry is in a transition and while it can be good for some bands the label giants are going the way of the dinosaur...
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:42:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By kyfortean:
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.


This is what I am getting. The artists aren't necessarily saying 'No you can't do this to meeeeeeee!!!!!!!'

What they are saying is that Pandora is trying to skip around working out deals with the industry and is trying to get Congress to make laws out of deals that they don't want to negotiate.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:43:50 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:45:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By kyfortean:
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.

Pandora wants royalties to be set at the level of satellite radio
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:48:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By kyfortean:
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.


I'm in the middle, I don't know enough about it but I'm against any gov regulations. In music the artist always gets screwed so I'm for artist getting more back. Now my bias is for the little guys, IDGAF about those pop giants. But tons of smaller bands can't even live off their music.

Just recently the frontman/singer of Suffocation stated he could no longer tour with his band due to having a good day job to pay the bills. The music industry is in a transition and while it can be good for some bands the label giants are going the way of the dinosaur...


Then you should really err against Pandora. They want it in law that they only have to pay $.0X royalties per song. This means that no one can negotiate it higher, regardless of how much they deserve it. If Pandora is making money hand over fist with this, then they should be paying their own way.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:52:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By mcantu:

Originally Posted By kyfortean:
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.

Pandora wants royalties to be set at the level of satellite radio


Are other broadcast royalties set by negotiation between the broadcaster and the content producer or are they set by the feds?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 9:54:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 9:55:43 AM EST by BillyDoubleU]
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By kyfortean:
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.


I'm in the middle, I don't know enough about it but I'm against any gov regulations. In music the artist always gets screwed so I'm for artist getting more back. Now my bias is for the little guys, IDGAF about those pop giants. But tons of smaller bands can't even live off their music.

Just recently the frontman/singer of Suffocation stated he could no longer tour with his band due to having a good day job to pay the bills. The music industry is in a transition and while it can be good for some bands the label giants are going the way of the dinosaur...


Then you should really err against Pandora. They want it in law that they only have to pay $.0X royalties per song. This means that no one can negotiate it higher, regardless of how much they deserve it. If Pandora is making money hand over fist with this, then they should be paying their own way.


I got an email from Pandora a while back about this asking me to support them and write my congressman. I left it alone as that stuff is always one sided.

So now why is Internet radio charged royalties a a higher rate then satellite radio?
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 10:00:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:
Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By kyfortean:
Unless I read the article wrong it sounds like Pandora is asking congress to legislate a lower rate royalties.

Does that mean that everyone posting so far would rather have the feds set the price (what pandora wants) than have them pay what they negotiated with the artists (what the petition wants).

I admit to not knowing a lot about internet radio but it sounds to me like Pandora is the bad actor here rather than the artists.


I'm in the middle, I don't know enough about it but I'm against any gov regulations. In music the artist always gets screwed so I'm for artist getting more back. Now my bias is for the little guys, IDGAF about those pop giants. But tons of smaller bands can't even live off their music.

Just recently the frontman/singer of Suffocation stated he could no longer tour with his band due to having a good day job to pay the bills. The music industry is in a transition and while it can be good for some bands the label giants are going the way of the dinosaur...


Then you should really err against Pandora. They want it in law that they only have to pay $.0X royalties per song. This means that no one can negotiate it higher, regardless of how much they deserve it. If Pandora is making money hand over fist with this, then they should be paying their own way.


I got an email from Pandora a while back about this asking me to support them and write my congressman. I left it alone as that stuff is always one sided.

So now why is Internet radio charged royalties a a higher rate then satellite radio?

because the record/media companies have had Congress in their pockets for years...
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 11:31:12 AM EST
Added more to the op, interesting.
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 11:33:30 AM EST
i'm curious what the record company cut of that was...
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 11:34:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By mcantu:
i'm curious what the record company cut of that was...


I think the quoted one said that they own there music?

But with Trivium yeah, I would wonder what RR or who ever they are with gets?
Link Posted: 11/21/2012 1:36:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Subnet:

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By mcantu:

Originally Posted By BillyDoubleU:
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Writing a song and every time it is played expecting a check forever is kinda .

By that logic, I guess every time they turn on the AC, the HVAC guy should get a dime.




It's an interesting question. Say you buy an album for $10. Now you own a physical copy of that material and are free to play it as often and anywhere you want for the rest of your life etc...

But a radio station whether Internet or traditional have to pay royalties on that music when they play it for the masses. Seems as though a radio station should be able to purchase the music and play to their desire. I'm sure the Labels have legalities inplace to prevent that but it's an interesting idea.

iirc, radio stations dont pay royalties; satellite radio pays 10% royalties; internet radio pays something around 50%


Really, I thought I read something that radio did as well but it was a very small amount?

Terrestrial Radio does, but it's far less. Doing Internet Radio (legally) is a fucking nightmare.

Im not nearly as involved in that world as you are, but my understanding is that using licensed music for any reason legally in this Country as opposed to say the UK is basically a fucking nightmare which is why you rarely see licensed performances or tracks being included in the replays of most TV shows, radio broadcasts etc.

Its crazy how in America using a song as a track bed for any kind of performance will cost you 20x times what you will be wiling to pay, but the moment you decide to parody something you can basically bust through all copyright protections you choose whenver you choose. Just goes to show how out of date our current laws are with the times.
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