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Posted: 6/1/2002 2:47:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 2:12:05 PM EDT by DoubleFeed]
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 2:54:26 AM EDT
Good. Did they expect business to boom after supporting the bombing campaign against Israel, which employs all these uneducated and unskilled laborers? Some day the Palestinians will wise up. Some day.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 4:04:13 AM EDT
When people don't have jobs, they don't have money and they don't have a reason to live. Life becomes meaningless, so that means more of them then ever will become suicide bombers.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 4:33:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 4:33:30 AM EDT by ECS]
It's the American's fault [;)]
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 4:46:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 5:00:52 AM EDT
what shotar said. look at assfat's compound, personal vehicles, personal security and assistants. he wants for nothing and cares nothing about the average joe and jane palestinian. Peace, prosperity and freedom are not in assfat's best interest, since the absence of these things - and his armed posse eliminating any dissent - keeps him in power. assfat, like those in power around the globe, is concerned with being served, not serving others.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 5:05:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: When people don't have jobs, they don't have money and they don't have a reason to live. Life becomes meaningless, so that means more of them then ever will become suicide bombers.
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Bullschitt !! Logic and common sense have no place in this discussion.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 5:50:24 AM EDT
What he said, plus. Actually, from my perspective, the one good thing aboutthis whole mess is that the Israelis are no longer as dependant as they had become on Arabs doing their scut work jobs for them. Maybe out of all of this will come more of a return to the earlier days, when it was perfectly acceptable to do work that got your hands dirty. It's just like our involvement with the Mexican illegals. Here in Georgia all the construction and lawn care crews are Mexicans, to say nothing of the chicken plant workers. Hell, everybody is too damn lazy to cut their own grass any more. Why bother, when you can get some fly by night outfit with a beat up pickup, and a truck bed crammed with Hispanics to do it for you, while you go out and play golf on Saturday. Tell you what, let's throw the illegals out of the U.S., and let the Israells throw the Arabs out, and we can all go back to taking care of our own stuff. [;D] Oh yeh, Scarecrow, the vast majority of the suicide bombers have come from middle and upper middle class families. They're the group that has the most leisure time to sit around and let their heads get filled with the BS put out by these clowns. The really poor people over there are too busy trying to scratch out a living to think about blowing themselves up.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 5:53:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: When people don't have jobs, they don't have money and they don't have a reason to live. Life becomes meaningless, so that means more of them then ever will become suicide bombers.
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Bullschitt !! Logic and common sense have no place in this discussion.
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Both of you: Bullshit! Losing one's job does not make someone blow themselves, an Israeli Grandma, and her 15 month-old granddaughter up. Savagery and hatred do THAT, not unemployment. Give them a working democracy and a sound economy, and those savages will STILL want to wipe out all of the Jews. This moral-equivalency crap gets old. For you to suggest that unemployment is what creates suicide bombers, indicates a belief that it could happen in any culture, ours included. They're a mob of hate filled savages who believe they will go to "Paradise", if they kill Jews. THAT'S why they slaughter innocents, not unemployment.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 6:18:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: When people don't have jobs, they don't have money and they don't have a reason to live. Life becomes meaningless, so that means more of them then ever will become suicide bombers.
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Bullschitt !! Logic and common sense have no place in this discussion.
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Both of you: Bullshit! Losing one's job does not make someone blow themselves, an Israeli Grandma, and her 15 month-old granddaughter up. Savagery and hatred do THAT, not unemployment. Give them a working democracy and a sound economy, and those savages will STILL want to wipe out all of the Jews. This moral-equivalency crap gets old. For you to suggest that unemployment is what creates suicide bombers, indicates a belief that it could happen in any culture, ours included. They're a mob of hate filled savages who believe they will go to "Paradise", if they kill Jews. THAT'S why they slaughter innocents, not unemployment.
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I believe the Israeli occupation and lack of hope creates suicide bombers. I fully realize this is a difficult concept for the "Israel Only" crowd to accept.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 6:42:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: When people don't have jobs, they don't have money and they don't have a reason to live. Life becomes meaningless, so that means more of them then ever will become suicide bombers.
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Bullschitt !! Logic and common sense have no place in this discussion.
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Both of you: Bullshit! Losing one's job does not make someone blow themselves, an Israeli Grandma, and her 15 month-old granddaughter up. Savagery and hatred do THAT, not unemployment. Give them a working democracy and a sound economy, and those savages will STILL want to wipe out all of the Jews. This moral-equivalency crap gets old. For you to suggest that unemployment is what creates suicide bombers, indicates a belief that it could happen in any culture, ours included. They're a mob of hate filled savages who believe they will go to "Paradise", if they kill Jews. THAT'S why they slaughter innocents, not unemployment.
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I believe the Israeli occupation and lack of hope creates suicide bombers. I fully realize this is a difficult concept for the "Israel Only" crowd to accept.
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[tinfoil hat mode] NOOO THEY ARE EVIL, THEY EAT BABIES AND IN THEIR RELIGION IS SPECIFICALLY SAYS KILL THE USA/JEWS. [/tinfoil hat mode] Some people have the hardest time understanding the simplest things.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 6:45:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 6:46:40 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
I fully realize this is a difficult concept for the "Israel Only" crowd to accept.
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Nice attempt. Don't try to belittle me by insinuating that I am some kind of Israeli sycophant. I'm on the side of civilization, therefore I'm against savages. Why is it that Arabs from other countries pick up the cause of suicide bombings? Middle-class Arabs, not poor "hopeless" Arabs. It's about hate and murder, not economics, or even the occupation. That YOU can't see this indicates a bias that has nothing to do with an honest analysis of the facts, and of the situation. I look at the situation, and see Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad convincing MIDDLE CLASS PALESTINIAN YOUTHS to murder innocents. These youths don't build the belts themselves. They are aided and prodded towards their vile acts. They are not desperate youths with no other choices. You know this, too. Yet you pretend otherwise. Why?
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 6:48:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
I fully realize this is a difficult concept for the "Israel Only" crowd to accept.
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Nice attempt. Don't try to belittle me by insinuating that I am some kind of Israeli sycophant. I'm on the side of civilization, therefore I'm against savages. Why is it that Arabs from other countries pick up the cause of suicide bombings? Middle-class Arabs, not poor "hopeless" Arabs. It's about hate and murder, not economics, or even the occupation. That YOU can't see this indicates a bias that has nothing to do with an honest analysis of the facts, and of the situation. I look at the situation, and see Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad convincing MIDDLE CLASS PALESTINIAN YOUTHS to murder innocents. These youths don't build the belts themselves. They are aided and prodded towards their vile acts. They are not desperate youths with no other choices. You know this, too. Yet you pretend otherwise. Why?
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If the occupation isn't a problem and economics isn't the answer then what is your solution ?
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:03:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 7:06:50 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
It's not that simple. They hate Jews. They want them all dead. How do you change that? You can't. It's the burden of those who are civilized, to see to it that the savages are kept at bay. This used to be common sense amongst civilized nations. Somehow, we've forgotton this. All we can do is keep them at bay. They are savages. Occupations exist, and have existed across the globe. Kasmir, Philipines, India, Puerto Rico, etc.. The recent suicide bomber's mother praised her son's murder of the grandmother and baby. She said: "I wish it had been a nuclear bomb..." Keep pacifying, excusing and rationalizing the Palestinian savagery, and it WILL one day be a "nuclear bomb".
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:06:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: It's not that simple. They hate Jews. They want them all dead. How do you change that? You can't. It's the burden of those who are civilized, to see to it that the savages are kept at bay. ...and that's all we can do. Occupations exist, and have existed across the globe. Kasmir, Philipines, India, Puerto Rico, etc.. The recent suicide bomber's mother praised her son's murder of the grandmother and baby. She said: "I wish it had been a nuclear bomb..." Keep pacifying, excusing and rationalizing the Palestinian savagery, and it WILL one day be a "nuclear bomb".
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Continuing condemnations but no solutions.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:10:13 AM EDT
Not a condemnation, a plan of action. Keep the savages from destroying civilization. How do you keep thugs from robbing and stealing? It sounds like you'd suggest "Midnight Basketball" and job training. I'm more in favor of the preventative threat of force, and then punishment for transgressors.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:16:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: Keep the savages from destroying civilization.
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But that brings the question....."Who are the savages ?" The Israelis or the Palestinians ?
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:32:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:33:46 AM EDT
5subslr5, people on this board have a hard time understanding that Palestinians wherent flying the planes into the WTC, it was saudis, all they see is muslims, and they displace there anger onto Arabs and Muslims because thats all they can do.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:34:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 7:35:18 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
But that brings the question....."Who are the savages ?" The Israelis or the Palestinians ?
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You know the answer. I'll give you a hint... The crowd in this photo is Palestinian. They just mutilated an Israeli, and are now playing with his entrails, laughing... [img]http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/slideshowimages/014.jpg[/img] If the Israelis are the savages, then we all are, and the term "savage" then has no meaning.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:36:48 AM EDT
Cincinnatus, Do I need to pull out some pictures from Viet Nam? People like doing that shit to their enemies, it doesnt make it right, but it doesnt make you any better.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:40:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: 5subslr5, people on this board have a hard time understanding that Palestinians wherent flying the planes into the WTC, it was saudis, all they see is muslims, and they displace there anger onto Arabs and Muslims because thats all they can do.
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Schoolboy, don't even try it. Your mischaracterization of my beliefs is nothing more than lies. I think many of us, here, are more than capable of understanding the relationship between AlQaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc. ..and how they are not representative of ALL Arabs. You know this, but choose to obfuscate. That's dishonesty, my young, 18 year-old Canadian friend
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:42:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: Cincinnatus, Do I need to pull out some pictures from Viet Nam? People like doing that shit to their enemies, it doesnt make it right, but it doesnt make you any better.
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Yes Scarecrow, show me some Americans, dancing in the streets of OUR cities, in front of OUR OWN children, playing with the entrails of someone we just mutilated, smiling, laughing... Show me.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:47:14 AM EDT
Shool boy? AHAHAHAHAHA. The groups may be interlinked, but tell me what the Palestinians contributed to the WTC attack? Money? Yah right. Frankly your tax dollars went to fund the Taliban until one day a few planes started hitting important buildings. I will remember if the US is ever taken over by another country, not to help, cause you all funded terrorism.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:53:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: 5subslr5, people on this board have a hard time understanding that Palestinians wherent flying the planes into the WTC, it was saudis, all they see is muslims, and they displace there anger onto Arabs and Muslims because thats all they can do.
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Truly I am in awe of the Saudis ability to manage 9/11. Transferring blame and attention to the Palestinians may be the finest "PR" work I've ever witnessed. I posted, right after 9/11, my belief that trail would lead back to the Arabians. You should have read the howls generated from that position. Now in my wildest dreams I didn't believe that 15 of the 19 would be Arabians. I'm believing Osama Bin deliberately used Arabians to embarrass the Saudi ruling family. It's a toss-up as to whether the ruling family or the U.S. is his 'most' hated.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:54:03 AM EDT
Cincinnatus, I never said that everyone goes to their own town to gloat with body parts from enemies. Maybe had the USA been a walk away from the dead VC some GI's would have walked around with their dog tags filled with VC ears or shown off some decapitated VC.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:57:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Truly I am in awe of the Saudis ability to manage 9/11. Transferring blame and attention to the Palestinians may be the finest "PR" work I've ever witnessed. I posted, right after 9/11, my belief that trail would lead back to the Arabians. You should have read the howls generated from that position. Now in my wildest dreams I didn't believe that 15 of the 19 would be Arabians. I'm believing Osama Bin deliberately used Arabians to embarrass the Saudi ruling family. It's a toss-up as to whether the ruling family or the U.S. is his 'most' hated.
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Israel had to make Americans see Palestinians as the attackers on the WTC, by iliminating the barrier it gives them the ability to manipulate 911 for public approuval of their actions.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 7:57:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: I believe the Israeli occupation and lack of hope creates suicide bombers.
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Question: How can it be an "Israeli occupation" when it's [b]their[/b] land in the first place?Are we an "occupying force" in the American southwest, or did the land rightfully become ours after defeating Mexico in 1848?
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:00:23 AM EDT
I give up. I have a more fun time talking to my ex-girlfriend about the merits of being faithfull.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:03:26 AM EDT
Once again, Scarecrow, I thank you. America needs worldly Canadian teenagers, such as yourself, to lecture us on world-events, history, and the moral equivalence of Palestinians and Americans
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:05:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 8:24:18 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Cincinnatus, the Israelis charge the U.S. taxpayers about $5.3 billion per year to kill Palestinians while the Palestinians only charge us about $85 million per year to kill Israelis. Since neither Israel nor the Palestinian Occupied Territories are of any strategic value to the United States I favor the low-cost Palestinians. (In that region only Turkey and Arabia are strategic to U.S. interest.) I am a Nationalist - I'm for what furthers the interest of my country - the USA. (Closely followed by a very few real allies such as Canada and Great Britain. Certainly I care nothing for a parasite such as Israel.) Edited to add: Actually, I favor cutting off U.S. taxpayer payments to both groups. Let them kill each other until they run out of people or decide that maybe peace is a good idea.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:05:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Truly I am in awe of the Saudis ability to manage 9/11. Transferring blame and attention to the Palestinians may be the finest "PR" work I've ever witnessed.
I posted, right after 9/11, my belief that trail would lead back to the Arabians. You should have read the howls generated from that position. Now in my wildest dreams I didn't believe that 15 of the 19 would be Arabians. I'm believing Osama Bin deliberately used Arabians to embarrass the Saudi ruling family. It's a toss-up as to whether the ruling family or the U.S. is his 'most' hated.
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Who mentioned 9/11, anyway? Not me. I thought we were talking about Israel/Palestine. You complain that WE equate the two, yet you're the only one who brought 9/11 up!
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:12:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Truly I am in awe of the Saudis ability to manage 9/11. Transferring blame and attention to the Palestinians may be the finest "PR" work I've ever witnessed.
I posted, right after 9/11, my belief that trail would lead back to the Arabians. You should have read the howls generated from that position. Now in my wildest dreams I didn't believe that 15 of the 19 would be Arabians. I'm believing Osama Bin deliberately used Arabians to embarrass the Saudi ruling family. It's a toss-up as to whether the ruling family or the U.S. is his 'most' hated.
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Who mentioned 9/11, anyway? Not me. I thought we were talking about Israel/Palestine. You complain that WE equate the two, yet you're the only one who brought 9/11 up!
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I believe you have left off the post I was responding to - Scarecrow's post. Probably just an error. I believe Scarecrow brought up the WTC and my post was in reply to that post.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:16:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 8:31:09 AM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By NH2112:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: I believe the Israeli occupation and lack of hope creates suicide bombers.
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Question: How can it be an "Israeli occupation" when it's [b]their[/b] land in the first place?Are we an "occupying force" in the American southwest, or did the land rightfully become ours after defeating Mexico in 1848?
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Well, well. I've been wondering when you would crawl out from under your rock. Seems that according to one's belief - Jewish or Muslim - that God promised the land to both Israel and the Palestinians. I'm believing God knew what he (she ?) was doing.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:28:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 8:29:18 AM EDT by Scarecrow]
Cincinnatus, only someone of an incredibly low intellect has to consider age to be the measure of a persons words. All it demonstrates is the weakness of your position which you have to search for the smallest detail to affirm yourself. And frankly, at 18 a person is an Adult in Canada, I can buy guns, drink beer, and die for my country. The number of years a person is alive is by no means a way to measure either the validity of their words or their maturity.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 8:35:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: Cincinnatus, only someone of an incredibly low intellect has to consider age to be the measure of a persons words. All it demonstrates is the weakness of your position which you have to search for the smallest detail to affirm yourself. And frankly, at 18 a person is an Adult in Canada, I can buy guns, drink beer, and die for my country. The number of years a person is alive is by no means a way to measure either the validity of their words or their maturity.
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I do believe Cincinnatus has left the building. Time for me to have a little lunch. Age is only the measure of time - nothing more. I believe the Chinese still count a person as one year old when born. So even the measure of age is not uniform.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 9:08:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 9:08:35 AM EDT
Not that I really want to enter this hay fight, but I will note that I think there is blood on everyone's hands in the middle east and that all respondants here have a bit of the truth. -legrue
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 9:33:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: I understand where subslr is coming from. He objects to US foreign aid based on America for Americans. That Israel gets so much foreign aid is his objection. Beyond that he really does not care.
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Shotar, well and correctly stated.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 9:34:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By legrue: ........ I think there is blood on everyone's hands in the middle east and that all respondants here have a bit of the truth. -legrue
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And that's probably the truth.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:15:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 11:37:57 AM EDT by Cincinnatus]
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: Cincinnatus, only someone of an incredibly low intellect has to consider age to be the measure of a persons words. All it demonstrates is the weakness of your position which you have to search for the smallest detail to affirm yourself. And frankly, at 18 a person is an Adult in Canada, I can buy guns, drink beer, and die for my country. The number of years a person is alive is by no means a way to measure either the validity of their words or their maturity.
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Experience is the path to wisdom. Your attempt to compare the actions of these savages: [img]http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/slideshowimages/014.jpg[/img] ...with the actions of American fighting men is repulsive moral-relativism at its worst.
People like doing that shit to their enemies...
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Oh, "people like doing that stuff to their enemies"?? What experience, or observation has lead you to believe this? None. Just a streak of moral relativism, colored by an anti-Israeli bias. A man who had spent any time out in the world, wouldn't make such a foolish comparison. Have you ever even been outside of Canada? I assume your ignorant comments were the result of your imaturity, and lack of any real-world experience. If they are instead, the product of ignorance and foolishness, I apologize for my mischaracterization.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 11:20:32 AM EDT
Ok, Subslr, I'm going to take you at your word that your only objection to the Israelis is that we give them so much aid money. Let me then propose an alternative viewpoint for you to consider. One, keep in mind that the Israelis have already requested that we STOP GIVING THEM ANY NON MILITARY AID as of the end of this fiscal year. There's at least a part of your problem solved. Two, consider why Israel feels that it needs the military stuff in the first place. TO KEEP THE BLOODY ARABS FROM KILLING THEM ALL. So, let me suggest that you start supporting the idea of the USA backing Israel to the max; giving them anything and everything they need to totally wipe out the Moslem murderers, and moving the rest of them to the "Palestine" that's already independent, what you call "Jordan". Were that to happen, I submit to you that within 3 to 4 years, Israel would no longer need the military aid either; and you would presumably be a happy camper. How'bout it, bubba? Ready to become a pro Israeli "extremist" in the name of getting us off the aid hook? [;)]
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 12:53:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: Ok, Subslr, I'm going to take you at your word that your only objection to the Israelis is that we give them so much aid money. Let me then propose an alternative viewpoint for you to consider. One, keep in mind that the Israelis have already requested that we STOP GIVING THEM ANY NON MILITARY AID as of the end of this fiscal year. There's at least a part of your problem solved. Two, consider why Israel feels that it needs the military stuff in the first place. TO KEEP THE BLOODY ARABS FROM KILLING THEM ALL. So, let me suggest that you start supporting the idea of the USA backing Israel to the max; giving them anything and everything they need to totally wipe out the Moslem murderers, and moving the rest of them to the "Palestine" that's already independent, what you call "Jordan". Were that to happen, I submit to you that within 3 to 4 years, Israel would no longer need the military aid either; and you would presumably be a happy camper. How'bout it, bubba? Ready to become a pro Israeli "extremist" in the name of getting us off the aid hook? [;)]
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shamayin, unlike the AID given to other countries, the money to Israel is deposited in their bank account the first day of each fiscal year and the Israelis may spend the money on whatever they want. The latest incursions by the Israelis is going to cost the U.S. taxpayers $200 million on top of what they already get. The Palestinians have asked for $15 million to rebuild their schools and police infrastructure. Excepting the U.S., Israel has not one friend or ally in the world. Not one. By the way, a DEAD AMERICAN is worth $100,000 to the Israelis and one they wound is worth $10,000. Support Israel ? Hell no. Never. I do not support any group that kills Americans. Let the Palestinians kill them all as I do not care. Come to think of it, I don't much care if Israel kills all the Palestinians. Blind support of Israel will only lead to more U.S. deaths. I care nothing for the Israelis nor the Palestinians. I care about the United States. I am an unapologetic nationalist.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 1:04:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2002 1:05:59 PM EDT by Cincinnatus]
You know as well as I, that what occurs over there will have an effect on the US. A direct effect. This is a fact. Why then would you allow an outcome that could be detrimental to our interests? Look at the situation and decide what would be best for US. If all you can come up with is: "no more US$ for Israel, let them kill eachother, who cares?.." ...then you're being myopic. We need to have a measure of control, and input into what the outcome will be. IF the palestinians are granted statehood, as a reward for their terror, then one day, other groups will attempt to use this "proven" method of extortion on US. Israel is our ally, whether you like it or not.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 1:23:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: You know as well as I, that what occurs over there will have an effect on the US. A direct effect. This is a fact. Why then would you allow an outcome that could be detrimental to our interests? Look at the situation and decide what would be best for US. If all you can come up with is: "no more US$ for Israel, let them kill eachother, who cares?.." ...then you're being myopic. We need to have a measure of control, and input into what the outcome will be. IF the palestinians are granted statehood, as a reward for their terror, then one day, other groups will attempt to use this "proven" method of extortion on US. Israel is our ally, whether you like it or not.
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Israel is our ally ??? No, Israel is a parasite. A parasite that can only survive when allowed a host. No U.S. support - no Israel. The country is not economically viable without U.S. handouts. Neither Israel nor the Palestinian Occupied Territories are of any strategic value to United States interest. None. In that region only Arabia and Turkey are strategic to U.S. interest.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 1:35:18 PM EDT
No, Israel is our ally. That's a fact. Israel is obviously not YOUR ally, fine. The myth that they can't survive without our financial help is a tired one.
Neither Israel nor the Palestinian Occupied Territories are of any strategic value to United States interest. None.
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Looking at it as though it is nothing more than a plot of land that either HAS or HAS NOT strategic value, you would have a point. It's a shame that it's not so simple as that. Politics, diplomacy, International Terrorism, our relationship with Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Europe, all of these things come into play, and are affected by the situation over there. What happens over there does and will affect us directly. You know this, too. Why do you pretend that this is not so? What blinds to this, if you are indeed unaware?
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 1:46:43 PM EDT
And now subsailors truth comes out. It ain't really about the money at all. it's about "them furriners". Why did I know that right from the gitgo? Subbie--that only friend in the world thing cuts both ways. With the possible exception of the Brits (when it's convenient for them), and the Canadians (when thy're not too busy fighting each other, between Quebec and anglo-Canada), the only friend we've got in the world is Israel. Yeah, I know. What good can they do us? Ask the U.S. fighter pilots who depend on Israeli designed and built nav equipment. Ask the MD's who are using Israeli designed and built diagnostic and body funtion monitoring equipment to save lives. Ask the Intelligence people who are getting regular and accurate info on threats to the USA from Israeli sources. You think we're getting this stuff from the Turks or the Saudis? Hell, the Turks depend on Israel to train their own damn fighter pilots. Tell the truth man. You just hate the Israelis, period. The money thing is just a cover, and a little extra pissoff for you. Look man, I'm sorry the Israelis sank one of our ships 36 years ago. I'm sorry the Germans massacred a bunch of our guys during the Battle of the Bulge, and I'm damn sorry the Japs butchered our guys in 1942 on the Bataan Death March. That was then. This is now. Wake up and realize that the Israelis are the one people in the world who are TOTALLY on our side in the war we are waging on terror. The others, and that includes the UK and Canada, are just with us when it's convenient for them.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 1:48:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scarecrow: When people don't have jobs, they don't have money and they don't have a reason to live. Life becomes meaningless, so that means more of them then ever will become suicide bombers.
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You'd think that hopelessness and unemployment is what's driving them to become suicide bombers, but that cannot possibly be the reason. In 2000, Israel's economy was really hot. There weren't even enough Palestinians to do all the work that needed to be done for construction and agricultural work, the Israelis had to bring in guest workers from Eastern Europe, Africa, and Asia. There was more or less peace, and the Israelis were offering huge land and autonomy concessions to the Arabs in exchange for permanent peace. The future hadn't been that rosy for the palestinians in a long, long time. The last thing their situation and prospects could be called is "hopeless" But exactly because coexistence with the Jews was becoming so palatable and conceivable, the extremeist Arabs had to do something to derail peace, and fast. So Arafat rejected the peace negotiations in summer 2000, and initiated the suicide bombing campaign in September 2000. Why is it so hard for you and 5subslr5 to see that the Arabs are bringing all this suffering on themselves, and they deserve everything they get. No, wait, they have been shown incredible mercy and restraint; far more than they deserve. These miserable people should just be wiped out. They don't want peace.
Link Posted: 6/1/2002 2:22:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cincinnatus: No, Israel is our ally. That's a fact. Israel is obviously not YOUR ally, fine. The myth that they can't survive without our financial help is a tired one.
Neither Israel nor the Palestinian Occupied Territories are of any strategic value to United States interest. None.
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Looking at it as though it is nothing more than a plot of land that either HAS or HAS NOT strategic value, you would have a point. It's a shame that it's not so simple as that. Politics, diplomacy, International Terrorism, our relationship with Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Europe, all of these things come into play, and are affected by the situation over there. What happens over there does and will affect us directly. You know this, too. Why do you pretend that this is not so? What blinds to this, if you are indeed unaware?
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Believe it or not the HUN and I were engaged in a similar debate and the HUN actually provded a link to a U.S. government site that stated without the billions from the U.S. Israel was not economically viable. --------------------------------------------- Can you guess why we can't invade Iraq ?
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