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Posted: 10/13/2004 6:26:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 6:36:34 AM EST by thebeekeeper1]
These little bastards almost killed some body and the judge gives them probation . At the very least they should have to spend some jail time.

Teens Plastic Wrap Road, Cause Motorcyclists To Crash



WAUKESHA, Wis. -- Four teenage boys who stretched plastic wrap across a road and caused a motorcycle crash were placed on a year of supervision and ordered to perform 60 hours of community service.

Waukesha County Circuit Judge Ralph Ramirez on Monday also ordered the boys, one 14- and three 16-year-olds, to spend four days in detention, pay restitution and attend a mortality awareness program.



"Prank is defined as a mischievous trick or practical joke," Ramirez told one of the 16-year-olds. "That may have been your intent, but that was not the result. Death could have, might have been the result."

Daniel Buckel, 22, and his girlfriend, Theresa Brzykcy, 19, were injured after slamming into the plastic wrap around 1 a.m. July 13. His Honda motorcycle slid across the pavement, and the riders landed on a nearby driveway.

Buckel broke a finger and needed 15 stitches for a gash above an eye. Brzykcy hit the pavement with her head and lost consciousness for a short time but was not seriously injured.

The boys said they didn't expect to do anything more than startle a motorist.

"Myself and three others put Saran wrap across the road, and two people ran into it," one 16-year-old told Ramirez. "We were expecting a car."

The boys, all of Waukesha, approached authorities with their attorneys to take responsibility for the crime before they were connected to it.

They were sanctioned in juvenile proceedings, but Ramirez said the incident was equivalent to two felony counts of recklessly endangering safety, meaning they will never be able to legally own firearms.

"I know that I'll never do anything like this again," one of the boys said after apologizing.

________________________________________________________________________________

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:27:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 6:27:44 AM EST by fight4yourrights]
Would jail do much more? Maybe. I'd probably give them 30 days.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:30:34 AM EST
saran wrap?

you would think this would tear and not take someone off a bike.
or if you use more than one ply it becomes opaque and you would see something is there and slow down.

i got to ask what else was going on?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:34:08 AM EST
I'm thinking shrink wrap, like what you'd use to wrap a pallet??

-hanko
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:34:21 AM EST

They were sanctioned in juvenile proceedings, but Ramirez said the incident was equivalent to two felony counts of recklessly endangering safety, meaning they will never be able to legally own firearms.


Um, were they convicted of felonies? Is that what they are saying there? It doesn;t matter if they are equivilant to two felonies, if they are not actual felonies than why would these kinds not be able to own a gun in the feature??? Can somone who knows more about law explain that one.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:34:56 AM EST
Sounds like a reall stupid prank that went bad, not criminal intent per se. Coming forward on their own also goes to their credit.


I'm usually the first old fart to want to throw the book at young whippersnappers like this but if they otherwise seemed like good kids, I can see the reasoning behind the decision. (If they are otherwise bad kids, NOW is totally the time to come down hard on them).
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:35:33 AM EST
whats with all these kids in Waukesha?
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:36:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
saran wrap?

you would think this would tear and not take someone off a bike.
or if you use more than one ply it becomes opaque and you would see something is there and slow down.

i got to ask what else was going on?



The accident happened at 1AM so the visibility would be low enough that even if mulitple layers of actual saran wrap, you wouldn't see it till it was to late.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:36:46 AM EST
Waiting for the civil suit......
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:40:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
saran wrap?

you would think this would tear and not take someone off a bike.
or if you use more than one ply it becomes opaque and you would see something is there and slow down.

i got to ask what else was going on?



It was dark, so visibility was not the best. I'd expect it to tear as well, but if it didn't, there is plenty of resistance. Probably didn't knock them off, just distracted him long enough to lose control or unbalance him, maybe pull his hands off the steering bar.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:43:17 AM EST
try riding a peddle bike through 3 layers at full speed, I bet it won't snap.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:51:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Sounds like a reall stupid prank that went bad, not criminal intent per se. Coming forward on their own also goes to their credit.


I'm usually the first old fart to want to throw the book at young whippersnappers like this but if they otherwise seemed like good kids, I can see the reasoning behind the decision. (If they are otherwise bad kids, NOW is totally the time to come down hard on them).



I have to disagree with you on this one Prof. I put this one on the same level as dropping rocks off of bridges onto the highway. They should have gotten some time for this. They are very lucky that no one was killed, or they would be facing murder charges,.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:52:11 AM EST
The plastic wrap probably exerts several pounds of force (resistance) per square foot. The number of square feet is large due to the span accross the road.

At 30-40 mph, probably enough force to sweep riders from the bike. I would not like to try it to find out.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:54:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 6:56:07 AM EST by Brisk322]
A 12" wide sheet of saran wrap (assuming a thickness of 0.001") has a cross-sectional area of 0.012in^2. It has an ultimate tensile strength of around 14,500 psi.

0.012 in^2 * 14500 psi = 174 pounds of force required to break the saran wrap. This assumes that it doesn't have any cuts or tears in it where it breaks (a reasonable assumption, IMHO).

Several layers would require several hundred pounds to break.


ETA: try pulling a sheet in half without tearing it. A good way to simulate this is to roll it into a crude rope. Try to break the rope. Most of us wouldn't be able to do it.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:55:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:58:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:31:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
The article vaguely implies that the saran wrap was hung across the road, and not on the road surface itself.
IMO, the boyfriend may have instinctively dumped the bike to avoid the obstacle he saw suddenly.



The "wrap" was on 2 street signs, and high enough so that it supposedly missed the bike, but got the rider at shoulder height and up.

It was at night, so clear wrap up higher is probably very tough to see, on a 55 mph rural road.

What was mentioned at the time of the original story, was that there had been several similar incidents with "wrap" the year before, in that general area.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:56:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Sounds like a reall stupid prank that went bad, not criminal intent per se. Coming forward on their own also goes to their credit.


I'm usually the first old fart to want to throw the book at young whippersnappers like this but if they otherwise seemed like good kids, I can see the reasoning behind the decision. (If they are otherwise bad kids, NOW is totally the time to come down hard on them).



I have to disagree with you on this one Prof. I put this one on the same level as dropping rocks off of bridges onto the highway. They should have gotten some time for this. They are very lucky that no one was killed, or they would be facing murder charges,.




Yeah - I know. I go back and forth on this, and can definitely see it both ways.

I guess the distinction to me would be intent - it's possible these kids REALLY didn't think that anything would happen - stupid negligence at its worst, absolutely. But kids who drop rocks off a bridge surely KNOW that someone could get hurt or killed, whereas these dumb kids MIGHT have thought that it would just be a funny things when a car tore through their saran-wrap.

This is the sort of case where (to me at least) everything depends on what was in their heads at the time, and of course there is no way of knowing. If I was the judge, and got the slightest idea that these kids KNEW it could potentially cause a crash (or should have known) - like throwing rocks off a bridge, then I would come down on them like a ton of bricks. But if I got the impression that these really were just dumb - but good - kids who did something incredibly stupid, and then had one of those "oh shit" moments, I'd go easy on them too.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:15:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 9:21:41 AM EST by legalese77]

Originally Posted By photoman:

They were sanctioned in juvenile proceedings, but Ramirez said the incident was equivalent to two felony counts of recklessly endangering safety, meaning they will never be able to legally own firearms.


Um, were they convicted of felonies? Is that what they are saying there? It doesn't matter if they are equivilant to two felonies, if they are not actual felonies than why would these kinds not be able to own a gun in the feature??? Can somone who knows more about law explain that one.



Without having the law in front of me, Federal law prohibits firearms ownership for a number of reasons... this includes certain types of crimes of violence as well as a whole mess of other things....some of the language even refers to "substantially similar offense" or something of that nature which could cover the offenses at issue here.

For example...charged with domestic violence but plea to simple battery still means no firearms for you. This is as a result of the wording of the Federal law. Note that neither domestic violence nor simple battery are felonies in Illinois. This is because he committed a "substantially similar offense" to domestic violence (actually he DID commit domestic violence, he simply was not convicted of it) Now, if he had been charged with simple battery and convicted, a different result might obtain...

Now, on to the current situation... assuming that what has been said is accurate... these kids can fall under the Federal prohibition against possessing firearms but they have been convicted through the juvenile system (set out by STATE law) in which there are likely no felonies and in which most dispositions will not appear on your adult rap sheet. The issue is really very complex and not well-explained in the three paragraphs here... if you have more questions feel free to IM me and I'll pull my file on the guy mentioned in par.2

p.s. these kids got off too lightly IMO
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:38:21 AM EST
Thanks legalese77 makes a bit more sence now.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:42:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 9:45:46 AM EST by KA3B]
Having watched someone run into bailing wire at chest level on a dirt bike (complements of Earth! First) doing about 40 mph my thoughts are these fucking bastards need to be in the "fuck'em in the ass jail" for a couple of months, long enough that they are held back a year in school.

Fuck them and their parents, what in the fuck are those little bastards doing running the streets at 1am in the morning.

I hope that the motorcyclists take them to civil court and sue the dogshit out of their parents.

Fuck them and their parents.



Pranksters get detention, community service
Boys injured 2 when motorcycle hit plastic wrap stretched across road

By DAVID DOEGE
Oct. 11, 2004

Waukesha -
Four teenagers who injured two people on a motorcycle when they stretched several layers of plastic wrap across a road in the middle of the night were placed on one year of supervision in Waukesha County Circuit Court on Monday.

The boys, one 14 and three 16, also were ordered to spend four days in detention and to perform 60 hours of community service by a judge who told them how their stunt had far exceeded a prank.

"Prank is defined as a mischievous trick or practical joke," Waukesha County Circuit Judge Ralph Ramirez told one of the 16-year-olds, who was the first to learn of his punishment. "That may have been your intent, but that was not the result. Death could have, might have been the result."

Restitution ordered
As the man and woman they injured watched from the front row of the Juvenile Court proceeding, Ramirez also ordered the boys, who had no prior contact with the law, to pay restitution and attend a mortality awareness program, among other things.

When each boy gave his account of what he did, the simple explanations made clear that they didn't contemplate anything more than startling an unwitting motorist.

"Myself and three others put Saran wrap across the road, and two people ran into it," one 16-year-old told Ramirez. "We were expecting a car."

The boys, all of Waukesha, were sanctioned in juvenile delinquency proceedings. But in sentencing each of them, Ramirez said the incident was the equivalent of two felony counts of recklessly endangering safety, meaning they will never be able to legally own firearms.

Authorities and Daniel Buckel, 22, of the Town of Waukesha have said the incident occurred about 1 a.m. when Buckel and his girlfriend, Theresa Brzykcy, 19, of Brookfield, were out for a ride. Buckel has recalled that because of poor visibility, he was traveling at less than 40 mph when he hit the plastic wrap.

The 2002 Honda motorcycle slid across the pavement, and the riders landed on a nearby driveway. Buckel broke a finger and needed 15 stitches for a gash above an eye.

Brzykcy hit the pavement with her head and lost consciousness for a short time but was not seriously injured.

Boys come forward
Authorities said they had developed leads in their ensuing investigation that ultimately might have led them to the boys, but the case was solved on July 28 when their attorneys contacted prosecutors and said the boys wanted to admit responsibility.

"He looked at me and said, 'I want to do the right thing,' " said Kurt Schuster, attorney for one of the 16-year-olds. "He made the decision, and his mom and dad backed him up."

All four boys' parents appeared in court, sitting in the front row. Some sobbed, and all four fathers apologized for their sons.

"We thank God every day that you guys are here and you're OK," one father said when he stood and faced the victims.

"I know that I'll never do anything like this again," one of the boys said after apologizing.

"Most of these kids are never going to know when they do these stupid pranks whether anybody is going to get hurt," said Waukesha County Assistant District Attorney Timothy Westphal. "At the time, they don't realize the risk to life or limb."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wauk/oct04/265871.asp
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:30:10 AM EST
Probation is typically for the first several offenses. You have to make crime a lifestyle choise for a significant number of years before you will ever see the inside of a prison cell. The typical first time inmate in California prisons has previously been convicted of 5 felonies.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:31:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Probation is typically for the first several offenses. You have to make crime a lifestyle choise for a significant number of years before you will ever see the inside of a prison cell. The typical first time inmate in California prisons has previously been convicted of 5 felonies.



Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:08:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 11:15:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I think a few weekends in jail would've been justified



Put them in jail for as long as it took the victims to fully recover from their injuries.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 12:36:13 PM EST
hmm, correct me if I'm wrong but this was a juvenile proceeding, hence no jail, no felony, no prison... could be different wherever this took place but generally speaking, the idea of juvenile proceedings is a disposition other than jail/prison... about as close as they will ordinarily get is a juvenile detention facility. I don't believe that indefininte (until the victims recover) sentences are Constitutional, although I might be mistaken. Even if it were Constitutional, the victims may never fully recover...while I think a harsh penalty and lesson are in order, life w/o the possibility of parole for a 14 yo and 3 16yos seems a tad excessive, particularly in light of sentences given to other for far more serious crimes. just an opinion...if you don't like, feel free to reject it.
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