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Posted: 9/19/2005 9:10:47 AM EDT
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n1478/a03.html
Pubdate: Thu, 15 Sep 2005
Source: Las Vegas Sun (NV)
Copyright: 2005 Las Vegas Sun, Inc
Contact: letters@lasvegassun.com
Website: http://www.lasvegassun.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/234
Author: Brian Wargo

POT PLANTS COULD CAUSE LOSS OF $400,000 HOUSE

Boulder City's attempt to seize the $400,000 home of a woman convicted of misdemeanor drug possession after police found six marijuana plants there has sparked debate in the community over personal property rights versus a need to crack down on drugs.

Boulder City officials are defending their right to file a lawsuit to confiscate the Capri Drive home of 56-year-old Cynthia Warren, who police said was arrested April 13 as part of an undercover investigation.

Officials said the charges related to cultivating and selling marijuana out of her residence. She pleaded no contest and was fined $500.

Boulder City Attorney Dave Olsen said the lawsuit sends a message that selling drugs in the community won't be tolerated, especially in light of two teenagers who died of drug overdoses in the last two years, even though it is unrelated to the seizure case.

"We have been given a mandate because one or two young people die every year because of drugs," Olsen said. "In a population of 15,000, one or two is unacceptable.

"The best way to send a message to folks that drug distribution to young people won't be tolerated is to take away their house. This gets their attention. We are sending a message loud and clear that if you package and distribute drugs from your house, you lose your home. Hopefully, it will act as a deterrent."

Warren declined to comment. Her attorney, John Lusk, of Las Vegas accused the city of going too far in pursuing his client's house, which is nearly paid for, since she pleaded to a misdemeanor possession charge.

"You have a person smoking marijuana in their own residence, and they have paid for all but $30,000 of their home they have lived in for ages. That just seems out of whack," Lusk said.

Others who have spoken out against the forfeiture case said it's nothing more than a money grab by the city because if it wins, it would get the proceeds from the auction of the house.

Boulder City filed the forfeiture case in District Court to obtain Warren's home on April 21, about a week after her arrest, before the case made it through legal channels.

When it received the case from Boulder City Police, the Clark County district attorney's office charged Warren with possession of marijuana with intent to sell and conspiracy to possess marijuana, both felonies, and rejected for a charge police sought of manufacturing and cultivating a controlled substance.

On July 26, Warren ultimately pleaded guilty to possession of drugs not to be introduced into interstate commerce, a misdemeanor. In addition to her $500 fine and 30-day suspended sentence, she is required to complete drug and alcohol counseling.

"For someone to plead to a misdemeanor yet be in danger of losing their entire house does not fit any measure of proportionality," said Allen Lichtenstein, the general counsel for the Nevada ACLU.

Lusk said the pursuit by Boulder City in this case is egregious and said cities and local governments are abusing forfeiture statutes he said are intended to go after major drug dealers. A resident of Boulder City since 1989, Warren, who draws federal disability income, is not wealthy, he said.

Lusk said if Warren was guilty of what Boulder City claims when they arrested her, then why did the district attorney's office accept a plea on a misdemeanor charges.

Olsen, however, said this is more than just a simple case of possession of marijuana, despite the district attorney's office accepting a plea on that charge. He said forfeiture laws aren't tied to the outcome in a criminal case, which have a higher standard of proof, and he said there's sufficient evidence to show the home was used for manufacturing, packaging and distributing marijuana in the community.

The Clark County prosecutor who handled the case was at a conference this week and couldn't be reached for comment. Olsen speculated a plea bargain on the lesser charge was accepted because of the large number of cases the office handles and the priority for murders, violent crimes and much larger drug dealers.

"It was not like it was acres of stuff, but numbers of plants," Olsen said. "They prioritize what goes to court and how they spend their resources. They may have felt this was a reasonable way to resolve it.

"But as far as the city is concerned, we are not taking it lightly. It is a big drug deal as far as we are concerned."

In search warrant documents filed by Boulder City Police, authorities list they confiscated live marijuana plants, lighting and timer systems in a bedroom, a pie tin containing 2 ounces of marijuana and a large plastic bowl containing 2.9 ounces of marijuana on the kitchen table.

There were baggies for narcotics, rolling papers and other paraphernalia found throughout the house and a baggie that tested positive for methamphetamine, according to the report.

There were papers and publications on marijuana growing found in Warren's room and paperwork detailing water and cultivating schedules for growing marijuana found throughout the house, according to the search warrant documents.

The arrest report said police found transaction sheets for selling narcotics and that the home had power bills that were twice or more than neighboring houses. Police said in the report that there's evidence the cultivation of marijuana had been going on for at least one year.

In addition to Warren, police also arrested Joe Ray, 49, who authorities said lived in the home with her. He has pleaded guilty to attempted possession of marijuana, which may either be classified as a gross misdemeanor or felony, and is scheduled to be sentenced on Oct. 5, according to the district attorney's office.

"If she had no knowledge, we certainly don't want to take her house, but we think she knew what was going on there," Olsen said.

One resident who lives in the neighborhood, who didn't want to be identified, said the home had been the center of activity for several months with many people coming and going at all hours.

Warren's plight detailed in the local newspaper has caught the attention of the community who are taking sides on the issue. Olsen said residents have come up to him in grocery stores and at social functions challenging him over the city's right to go after Warren's home.

"I think it has caused some strong reaction," Olsen said. "There is a faction that is very vocal against it. But for the most part, the community is supportive of it. I don't think anybody wishes Ms. Warren any kind of ill will, but we are playing by the rules and trying to be reasonable."

Not everyone in the community, however, shares that sentiment. One resident, Matt Ragan, has even run ads in the Boulder City News seeking to raise money for her legal fight to keep the house, which city officials said has about a $28,000 mortgage remaining on its $400,000 value.

Ragan, a commercial airline pilot, said he doesn't know Warren and isn't advocating the legalization or use of marijuana. He said he's outraged that the city would try to confiscate the home of someone who he maintains is convicted of a crime equivalent to a traffic ticket. He said if she was found guilty of trafficking drugs and purchased the home with drug money, the city would be justified in pursuing the forfeiture, he said.

"The punishment should fit the crime," Ragan said. "This is simple possession. You shouldn't lose your home for that. Where do you draw the line?"

In August 2003, Johnny Aquino, 17, a Boulder City High School football player, died from a cocaine overdose. In June 2004, Jessica Sisney, 16, died of a drug overdose. No one was arrested for supplying the drugs in those cases.

Ragan said he believes the city's seeking Warren's house is the product of hysteria in the community over those deaths of which she has no connection. He accused politicians of "throwing red meat" to their constituents by going after Warren.

Boulder City Mayor Bob Ferraro said the city's lawsuit seeking Warren's home is the right thing to do and sends a message for those dealing drugs in the community. He said he has no tolerance of drugs, even those who are only users.

"I think it sends a message to those dealing in drugs that we are serious and we will confiscate property," Ferraro said.

Under state law, Boulder City would be restricted to using money raised from an auction for narcotics-related uses, which could include equipment and drug-sniffing dogs. Money is also used for undercover buys.

If money accumulated during a year exceeds $100,000, 70 percent of that money would have to go to the Clark County School District if it remains unspent, officials said.

The pursuit of such forfeiture cases by local governments are blatantly used to underwrite their operating budgets, said Gary Peck, the executive director of the Nevada ACLU. Despite changes in the laws earlier this decade that make it more difficult on governments to seize assets, which can includes homes, cash, cars and other property, Peck said authorities have financial incentives to go after assets even if the cases were dubious.

Government should have to meet a high threshold before it can confiscate property, he said.

"If the light were shined on these practices," the public would be angry and upset in this country," Peck said. "In our country you are innocent until proven guilty. A lot of people can't afford attorney's fees, and when someone is threatening to take your house by bullying them, it it difficult to fight."


Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:11:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:15:53 AM EDT by WildBoar]
Seems a bit severe for a misdemeanor. She would probably make $200-300 TOPS a month from those plants, I doubt seriously she financed the house from a few plants. If they can prove she was dealing the weed then confiscation would be in order, some dopers are actually hobbyists and grow for themselves and a few friends for no profit.

$400,000 ? fatal DUIs get off less than that all the time.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:16:42 AM EDT
BS, the bitch wants to smoke/grow pot let her do it, whats next, any money in your bank account gets turned over to the .gov to?? 6 plants aint shit, she'd be lucky to get an ounce or two out of them, I don't think she feeds the community drugs. Just another case of our lovely government on a power trip and being the f'ng theives they are......................
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:16:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
If they can prove she was dealing the weed then confiscation would be in order




Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:20:34 AM EDT
I reckon she pled guilty and the state has precident for taking her house.

10 or 12 years ago I knew a guy in Idaho who got busted with a hydoponic growing setup in the basement of his house. They took his house, threw him and his family out on the street, and took his Cessna 172. If I remember correctly, his house was worth about 600 grand.

The moral of the story seems to be, if you get busted with drugs....you stand to loose everything you own.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:21:25 AM EDT
Forfeiting Our Property Rights by Henry Hyde
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:22:11 AM EDT
Brilliant. Fucking brilliant.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:22:22 AM EDT
Must be time to buy new patrol cars or something over there
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:24:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
Seems a bit severe for a misdemeanor. She would probably make $200-300 TOPS a month from those plants, I doubt seriously she financed the house from a few plants. If they can prove she was dealing the weed then confiscation would be in order, some dopers are actually hobbyists and grow for themselves and a few friends for no profit.

$400,000 ? fatal DUIs get off less than that all the time.



Let's suppose that she was dealing weed - making 200-300 a month TOPS. (I agree with you on the maximum amount of money -- assuming she had no problems with growing, was growing the best grades, with best possible production.) How would that make seizing a $400,000 house a good idea, even assuming it was true?

I agree with you on everything else.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:24:24 AM EDT
So if we get a DUI we have to buy a new car too right? Will they start taking them next? If you're caught shoplifting they take your wardrobe?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:26:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:
I reckon she pled guilty and the state has precident for taking her house.

10 or 12 years ago I knew a guy in Idaho who got busted with a hydoponic growing setup in the basement of his house. They took his house, threw him and his family out on the street, and took his Cessna 172. If I remember correctly, his house was worth about 600 grand.

The moral of the story seems to be, if you get busted with drugs....you stand to loose everything you own.



Does the moral include anything about punishment that is proportionate to the crime, freedom from abusive government officials who are just looking to cash in, government ignoring sensible approaches to the problem, or anything like that?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:27:23 AM EDT
Seizure laws are somewhat misleading in the media. You don't still owe the mortgage on the house and legally, the bank still have a priority security interest in the asset. The house gets sold and the city takes the equity... which is a good reason to have a 100% financed, interest only loan if you intend to grow and distribute any amount of weed from your basement.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:27:30 AM EDT
Better hope she doesn't own a bulldozer.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:27:36 AM EDT
afman and others,
Get a dui in the city of New York and they do confiscate your car. As for the ladies house I have no sympathy, I'm sure she was aware she was breaking the law. Once you break the law you become subject to the penalties.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:29:07 AM EDT
How about this - Don't grow pot in your house?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:30:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:30:29 AM EDT
Drugs are bad mkay? Those 2 kids wouldnt have died if this lady had not sold them marijuana, which in turn made them decide to speedball on heroin and meth. I find this laughable considering alcohol is sold legally and DWI's alone kill over 15,000 people per year Seriously now people isnt siezing this womans house a band aid on the bullet wound of americas drug problem? Now wait, step back and look at it this way. The woman is about to lose her HOUSE for growing a plant. She wasnt cooking meth or processing opium to heroin or any such shit, just growing a weed plant. If you support this you might as well also support gun bans, socialized medecine, and the whole 9 yards that comes with the almighty nanny state, hell bent on protecting the sheeple from themselves!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:31:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:35:22 AM EDT by LANCEMAN]

Originally Posted By afman91201:
So if we get a DUI we have to buy a new car too right? Will they start taking them next? If you're caught shoplifting they take your wardrobe?



A friend of mine got caught shooting deer at night with a spotlight. Cost him a truck worth about $10,000, a .270 bolt action and no hunting license for 5 years. Maybe they should just confiscate her Bong, lighters, and snack foods to make the punishment fit the crime This does seem like overkill for a misdemeanor, they have dollar signs in their eyes. Our Sheriff's department here used to camp out on I-10 and used to get tons of cash and property. Our county was listed as one of the worst speed traps in the country for a couple of years. They left us locals alone though, they wanted out of town dollars, can't piss of the sheriff's voters ya know

ETA: The county made tons of money after they gave FDLE and the FEDS (DEA) their piece of the pie of course.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:31:56 AM EDT
Another example of the kleptocracy that is our government.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:31:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:33:09 AM EDT by tactmaster]

Originally Posted By TomF32:
afman and others,
Get a dui in the city of New York and they do confiscate your car. As for the ladies house I have no sympathy, I'm sure she was aware she was breaking the law. Once you break the law you become subject to the penalties.



Give me a break, maybe they should give death sentance to for making an illegal right turn, hey you know you were breaking the law, now you are subject to its penalties right? Yes she should be fined, but taking your fucking house for growing what god put on this earth, who the hell is the government to tell you that you can't do that. Again, I say BS!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:32:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomF32:
afman and others,
Get a dui in the city of New York and they do confiscate your car. As for the ladies house I have no sympathy, I'm sure she was aware she was breaking the law. Once you break the law you become subject to the penalties.



So next time you jaywalk, the state gets everything you own? Sounds fair.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:37:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

...of misdemeanor drug possession ...

.....as part of an undercover investigation.

She pleaded no contest and was fined $500.





You can't finance undercover drug investigations with $500 fines!

The city wants to turn a $500.00 misdemeanor offense into an extra $400,000 profit.

Next thing you know the Supreme Court will say it's okay for municipalities to take away and give your property to developers because they can create more profit for the city.

While I despise drugs, I dislike government sponsored stealing even more. The courts gave a fine and punishment for the crime. It should be over with that. The city is just looking to make a buck.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:39:10 AM EDT
This is BS. They are goign after people with 4 fucking plants, while hundreds of illegals run through the border each day with loads of drugs. This is completely 110% money motivated.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:42:37 AM EDT
You guys don't understand.

You aren't going to get your guns and pot.

One or the other.

You want weed, they are going to take the guns.

You want guns, forget about the weed.

Each of these items are objectified icons of opposing cultures.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:42:56 AM EDT
i'm smoking pot right now
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:45:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

...of misdemeanor drug possession ...

.....as part of an undercover investigation.

She pleaded no contest and was fined $500.





You can't finance undercover drug investigations with $500 fines!

The city wants to turn a $500.00 misdemeanor offense into an extra $400,000 profit.

Next thing you know the Supreme Court will say it's okay for municipalities to take away and give your property to developers because they can create more profit for the city.

While I despise drugs, I dislike government sponsored stealing even more. The courts gave a fine and punishment for the crime. It should be over with that. The city is just looking to make a buck.



Agreed, I'd burn that mofo down and do my time for the arson. bunch of crooks is all the goverment is anymore.
It was 6 pot plants for kerist sakes.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:46:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:47:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:49:31 AM EDT by Mojo_Jojo]
This sounds kind of harsh, but...

Warren was on disability and is living in a $400,000 house. Perhaps she recieved a settlement(?) that was used to buy the house, but perhaps not. No mention of how much she money recieved monthly or how she paid for the house. Growing plants, small amounts of MJ AND traces of meth.... that leads me to suspect that she was dealing on a larger scale. Perhaps she was only caught with a small amount, but it really makes me wonder.

If she can't show how legitimate funds were used for the mortgage payments, I don't have a problem with them seizing the property. Sounds like there is more to this story than is being reported.

(Flame suit on!)
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:48:21 AM EDT
If the city wants to "send a message" like the article stated, then when they seize the house (which is total BULLSHIT) then donate the money to drug rehab programs....

Anybody think that will happen?

Stealing that house is worse than what she did, but it's legal! Fuckin' crooks.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:50:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomF32:
afman and others,
Get a dui in the city of New York and they do confiscate your car. As for the ladies house I have no sympathy, I'm sure she was aware she was breaking the law. Once you break the law you become subject to the penalties.



Maybe I missed something in my Constitution class. Doesn't it say something about "cruel and unusual punishment"? Or are the cops entitled to seize any of your property no matter what crime you may have committed? Can we seize your house if you get a speeding ticket?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:51:10 AM EDT
The war on drugs is stupid. It's a war on personal liberty! Bust into your house, shoot your dog, steal your car and your house... F that. Tobacco is a million times more harmful, and the only reason that stuff is still legal is they pay off the politicians. The only reason weed isn't legal is because they don't have a paid lobby making it legal, and the payoffs come in the form of jobs for the DEA and police.

What a racket. BS. This makes me sick.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:52:55 AM EDT
Our government scares me more than any terrorists ever could.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:53:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Our government scares me more than any terrorists ever could.



+1
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:54:28 AM EDT
Who here cries when they take a $40,000 mobile home from some guy for the same thing? Who gets upset when people get kicked out of the projects for it?

I don't mess with any of that stuff. My life isn't so hollow that I need to "escape" via some drug. Therefore, I really don't give a shit either way. The outrage when it hits wealthy people, though, is comical.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:55:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 9:56:31 AM EDT by ArmedAggie]

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Our government scares me more than any terrorists ever could.



Easy to say while that government protects you (as best they can).

ETA: So go live in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan with your buddies so you don't have to live in fear...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:56:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
There have been reports of law enforcement having tax assessments in their possession when plotting out drug arrests.Letters of Marque.



I know of at least one such confirmed case. They raided a place and wanted to seize about 50 acres of prime Malibu real estate (estimated value -- millions) over ONE (count 'em -- ONE) pot plant they supposedly saw from at least 1,500 feet in the air.

So they raided in the middle of the night and wound up shooting a surprised homeowner to death. Then they took the land for estate taxes from his widow.

Just in case anyone wanted to know -- No, they never did find even one pot plant on the property. But they did find documentation in the police files that showed the cops knew exactly what the land was worth before they pulled their trick.

That's not to mention all the other abuses of the forfeiture laws -- like the Oklahoma sheriff who had so many seized cars around his house that, according to the newspaper that reported it -- his dog couldn't find the front porch.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:57:54 AM EDT
Note to self: Don't grow pot as it is illegal to do so and may get me into deep dookie.
Man, I bet I could buy that house for a song.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:58:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 10:01:11 AM EDT by jrzy]

Originally Posted By TomF32:
afman and others,
Get a dui in the city of New York and they do confiscate your car. As for the ladies house I have no sympathy, I'm sure she was aware she was breaking the law. Once you break the law you become subject to the penalties.



Yes but the punishment needs to fit the crime.

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed , nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:59:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:59:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 10:08:53 AM EDT by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By WildBoar:
If they can prove she was dealing the weed then confiscation would be in order







Dealing and personal use for self and friends are a big differences. If it turns outr she had a pretty big operation going and had more plants at one time it would be different. 6 plants IMHO is personal use and does not really bother me too much. If they proved she had a house chock full of dope for a full swing operation at one time I have a problem with. That attracts a bad element and to some degree of organized crime.

A couple of hippies who grow for fun and friends are pretty much harmless.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 9:59:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Our government scares me more than any terrorists ever could.



Easy to say while that government protects you (as best they can).

ETA: So go live in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan with your buddies so you don't have to live in fear...



Brave men and women protect us, not the government.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:01:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
You should be the victim of a pot grower. If the Feds find pot on your property they can seize it, even if you are not the person responsible for its growth.

Keep in mind, it is a WEED that grows native to the South.

TRG



It was grown as an agricultural crop for a few centuries before it was made illegal and it can be found forty acres at a stretch in many areas of the country. Back in the 1960s they had some plans to force farmers to cut the stuff down but that went down the tubes when the farmers protested that it was a lot of work and expense for no good purpose -- you couldn't smoke that quality of stuff, anyway.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:02:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo:
This sounds kind of harsh, but...

Warren was on disability and is living in a $400,000 house. Perhaps she recieved a settlement(?) that was used to buy the house, but perhaps not. No mention of how much she money recieved monthly or how she paid for the house. Growing plants, small amounts of MJ AND traces of meth.... that leads me to suspect that she was dealing on a larger scale. Perhaps she was only caught with a small amount, but it really makes me wonder.

If she can't show how legitimate funds were used for the mortgage payments, I don't have a problem with them seizing the property. Sounds like there is more to this story than is being reported.

(Flame suit on!)



Uuuh, pardon me, but isn't this attitude just a little closer to Nazi Germany than the US Constitution? If you can't prove that every penny spent on your house (never mind the increase in property values) was legit then do I get to seize it? Isn't your standard of "proof" just exactly backwards?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:04:26 AM EDT
Legalize it.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:05:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:07:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:
[Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed , nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.




Thanks. I thought I dimly remembered something like that somewhere. It seems a few people here never read past the Second Amendment.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:08:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:08:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
You guys don't understand.

You aren't going to get your guns and pot.

One or the other.

You want weed, they are going to take the guns.

You want guns, forget about the weed.

Each of these items are objectified icons of opposing cultures.



You're right. Its a shame. In America we have freedom! We get to pick our poison.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:10:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Our government scares me more than any terrorists ever could.



Easy to say while that government protects you (as best they can).

ETA: So go live in the mountains of Afghanistan or Pakistan with your buddies so you don't have to live in fear...



Yeah our govt sure did a great job protecting NYC and the Pentagon, also do a great job protecting my land from all the border jumpers down here in west TX. Great job on the NOLA disaster as well. Theyre doing an equally impressive job protecting us from the evils of drugs as well (thousands of pounds of drugs pouring over our borders everyday).

Buddies in Afghanistan or Pakistan? You must mean my fellow Marines, yes I do miss them and wish I was back there with my company.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:14:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Peak_Oil:

Originally Posted By Hellraiser:
Our government scares me more than any terrorists ever could.



+1



+2

*goons visit*

edit: -2
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 10:16:15 AM EDT
This is great! Next, anyone with a moving violation should lose their car.
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