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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/7/2006 7:24:54 AM EDT
linkeroo

Experts Blame Cop Show For Educating Criminals

POSTED: 11:32 am CST January 31, 2006

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CLEVELAND -- When Tammy Klein began investigating crime scenes eight years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a killer to use bleach to clean up a bloody mess.

Today, the use of bleach, which destroys DNA, is not unusual in a planned homicide, said the senior criminalist from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.

Klein and other experts attribute such sophistication to television crime dramas like "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation," which give criminals helpful tips on how to cover up evidence.

Prosecutors have complained for years about "the CSI effect" on juries -- an expectation in every trial for the type of high-tech forensic evidence the show's investigators uncover. It also appears the popular show and its two spinoffs could be affecting how some crimes are committed.


"They're actually educating these potential killers even more," said Capt. Ray Peavy, also of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and head of the homicide division. "Sometimes I believe it may even encourage them when they see how simple it is to get away with on television."

A man charged in a recent double-homicide in northeast Ohio was a "CSI" fan and went to great lengths to cover his tracks, according to an affidavit filed by Trumbull County prosecutors.

Jermaine "Maniac" McKinney, 25, allegedly broke into a house, killed a mother and daughter and used bleach to remove their blood from his hands, prosecutors said. He also allegedly covered the interior of a getaway car with blankets to avoid transferring blood.

Prosecutors said McKinney burned the bodies, his clothing and removed his cigarette butts -- which would contain his DNA -- from the crime scene.

According to the affidavit, he also tried to throw some evidence into a lake, including a crowbar used to bludgeon one of the victims. The lake was frozen though and he shouted a profanity when the crowbar remained on the surface.

Investigators later recovered the evidence. McKinney, who was indicted this month on two counts of aggravated murder, aggravated burglary and other charges, could face the death penalty if convicted.

Cases where suspects burn and tamper with evidence seem to be increasing, said Chuck Morrow, chief of the criminal division in the Trumbull County Prosecutor's office.

"People are getting more sophisticated with making sure they're not leaving trace evidence at crime scenes," Morrow said.

Klein said most crimes aren't well planned and that detailed attention to prevent leaving trace evidence typically occurs in cases where someone has killed a family member or business partner.

"For the most part, our killings involve gang bangers who for the most part are pretty stupid," she said.

Sophisticated planning and concealment of evidence are aberrations, not the norm, said Larry Pozner, former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

"Most people who commit crimes are not very bright and don't take many precautions," Pozner said. "CSI and all the other crime shows will make no difference."

Yet, in the six years since CBS, which did not return phone calls seeking comment, introduced "CSI," there's been a trend of fewer clues like hair, cigarette butts and the killer's blood left behind at crime scenes, Peavy said.

The more sophisticated the television story lines get, the better equipped criminals will be, Peavy said, adding that he never watches "CSI" because it's too unrealistic.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:28:46 AM EDT
Ammonia works too, right? That's what they used in the Boondock Saints.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:29:26 AM EDT

The lake was frozen though and he shouted a profanity when the crowbar remained on the surface.


D'oh.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:29:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Ammonia works too, right? That's what they used in the Boondock Saints.



There's some variable here I can't isolate.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:30:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 7:30:54 AM EDT by IAMLEGEND]

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Ammonia works too, right? That's what they used in the Boondock Saints.



LOL! That's right. That's when Willem Dafoe flips out.


ETA: Who the fuck are these guys?!?! I've never seen anything like this!!!!
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:32:06 AM EDT
It only takes one good cop to catch a great criminal.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:32:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 7:33:31 AM EDT by motown_steve]
First we register our weapons to make the police's job easier.

Then we ban certain types of bulletes to make the police safer.

Then we ban certain types of guns to make the police safer.

Then we created ballistic fingerprinting databases to make the police's job easier.

Then we created DNA databases to make the police's job easier.

Now we need to turn criminal investigation procedures into state secrets and ban TV shows to make police and prosecutor's jobs easier.

Where will it end?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:32:30 AM EDT
So the gist of the story is:

The police have to work harder now to solve crimes? Cry me a friggin river.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:36:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
First we register our weapons to make the police's job easier.

Then we ban certain types of bulletes to make the police safer.

Then we ban certain types of guns to make the police safer.

Then we created ballistic fingerprinting databases to make the police's job easier.

Then we created DNA databases to make the police's job easier.

Now we need to turn criminal investigation procedures into state secrets and ban TV shows to make police and prosecutor's jobs easier.

Where will it end?



We obviously need some common sense restrictions on the selling of Clorox.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:41:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 7:48:52 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
It's like the news. I absolutly loved a while back there was a big sporting event near by and the local news detailed exactly the best places for bombs to inflict the most damage. "So we could be wary of those locations"

Thanks for the intel.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:43:33 AM EDT
Um, didn't (former) VP Quale blame the television series "Murphy Brown" for single mothers??

So now we got cops blaming another lame-assed television series for making super criminals?!! WTF!
It is the fault of television, again - and certainly not the evil in men's heart. Right?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:48:41 AM EDT
I love it when "experts" point out the obvious.

Clearly I'm in the wrong line of work.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:52:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:56:33 AM EDT
The guy still got caught right? He was an idiot for smoking at the scene though. Never use any traceable product at the scene.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:56:58 AM EDT
That's funny, cause they interviewed a lot of the Arkansas state crime lab techs and Little Rock PD CSIs not long ago and they said CSI was the biggest croc of shit ever that it was great for a laugh.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:03:02 AM EDT
So if I rent "Deep Throat" then.......

Nah.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:07:12 AM EDT
Who says you can't learn anything by watching TV?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:07:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
First we register our weapons to make the police's job easier.
Then we ban certain types of bulletes to make the police safer.
Then we ban certain types of guns to make the police safer.
Then we created ballistic fingerprinting databases to make the police's job easier.
Then we created DNA databases to make the police's job easier.
Now we need to turn criminal investigation procedures into state secrets and ban TV shows to make police and prosecutor's jobs easier.
Where will it end?



When they put the chips in our brains so they can monitor our evil thoughts and give us a jolt when we need one.

The cops can just as easily watch CSI and become better cops, can't they? Better yet, I believe all of the episodes of Miami Vice are on DVD now. They should just let cops sit in for a week or so and watch them all, then the crime rates will plummet.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:11:07 AM EDT
That guy is full of shit. CSI is so full of innaccuracies that it has to balance out with the "tips" it gives criminals.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:15:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Um, didn't (former) VP Quale blame the television series "Murphy Brown" for single mothers??


Um, no he didn't.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:19:54 AM EDT
"For the most part, our killings involve gang bangers who for the most part are pretty stupid," she said.

Atleast she got one thing right.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:24:39 AM EDT
Yeah well a friend of mines garage at home was broken into and stuff to the tune of $5K was taken.
My buddy asked the sheriff "aren't you all gonna take fingerprints or anything?"

Their reply was something like " we don't do that " " thats only on TV"



my friend wasn't happy
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:25:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
That's funny, cause they interviewed a lot of the Arkansas state crime lab techs and Little Rock PD CSIs not long ago and they said CSI was the biggest croc of shit ever that it was great for a laugh.



It is inaccurate - no lab is that well funded.
Hardly any lab in the country has that kind of equipment.
And as far as DNA goes?
There is something like a 3 year wait from the FBI lab to get DNA results back.
CSI is a crock of shit, but only because they think you can solve a crime with physical evidence.
Physical evidence corroborates testimony, not the other way around.
If you keep your mouth shut, your chances of getting released before it evens comes to trial are pretty good.
Unless of course they got you deadbang - but that wouldn't happen if you were smart enough to shut up and lawyer up.
Course if you were actually smart, you wouldn't be sitting in an interrogation room anyway.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:25:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 8:27:32 AM EDT by PreMed_Gunner]

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
That's funny, cause they interviewed a lot of the Arkansas state crime lab techs and Little Rock PD CSIs not long ago and they said CSI was the biggest croc of shit ever that it was great for a laugh.



yep, I went to one of their labs in Little Rock for a tour, and they literally were laughing their asses off about it. Of course, they were pretty negligent and I believe poor investigators, as when one of the people on the tour found a whole, flattened bullet in the ballistics test room(that had been fired, the look on the tour guides eyes got really fucking big as it belonged to one of the murder cases they were solving.

EDIT: The bullet was one that they had "been missing".
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:26:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
That's funny, cause they interviewed a lot of the Arkansas state crime lab techs and Little Rock PD CSIs not long ago and they said CSI was the biggest croc of shit ever that it was great for a laugh.



It is inaccurate - no lab is that well funded.
Hardly any lab in the country has that kind of equipment.
And as far as DNA goes?
There is something like a 3 year wait from the FBI lab to get DNA results back.
CSI is a crock of shit, but only because they think you can solve a crime with physical evidence.
Physical evidence corroborates testimony, not the other way around.
If you keep your mouth shut, your chances of getting released before it evens comes to trial are pretty good.
Unless of course they got you deadbang - but that wouldn't happen if you were smart enough to shut up and lawyer up.
Course if you were actually smart, you wouldn't be sitting in an interrogation room anyway.



isn't it somewhere between 80-90% of alleged murderers get aquitted or don't even go to trial?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:39:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
That's funny, cause they interviewed a lot of the Arkansas state crime lab techs and Little Rock PD CSIs not long ago and they said CSI was the biggest croc of shit ever that it was great for a laugh.



It is inaccurate - no lab is that well funded.
Hardly any lab in the country has that kind of equipment.
And as far as DNA goes?
There is something like a 3 year wait from the FBI lab to get DNA results back.
CSI is a crock of shit, but only because they think you can solve a crime with physical evidence.
Physical evidence corroborates testimony, not the other way around.
If you keep your mouth shut, your chances of getting released before it evens comes to trial are pretty good.
Unless of course they got you deadbang - but that wouldn't happen if you were smart enough to shut up and lawyer up.
Course if you were actually smart, you wouldn't be sitting in an interrogation room anyway.



isn't it somewhere between 80-90% of alleged murderers get aquitted or don't even go to trial?

If you believe the TV show "the first 48" you can kill someone and as long as you keep your piehole shut, and there was no video or no obvious way to link you to it, they won't even suspect you, and even then it takes you fucking talking to go to jail. Guilty or not keep your cocksucker shut!
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:03:26 AM EDT
So if cops can shift the blame for their inadequecies, does that mean I can blame the donut industry when my house gets broke into or if my wife gets mugged?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:04:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
Um, didn't (former) VP Quayle blame the television series "Murphy Brown" for single mothers??


Um, no he didn't.



Okay, then correct me if I'm wrong.... but:


On May 19, 1992, Quayle gave a speech to the Commonwealth Club of California on the subject of the Los Angeles riots. In this speech Quayle blamed the violence in L.A. on a decay of moral values and family structure in American society. In an aside, he specifically cited the fictional title character in the television program Murphy Brown as an example of how popular culture contributes to this "poverty of values", saying: "t doesn't help matters when primetime TV has Murphy Brown—a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent, highly paid, professional woman—mocking the importance of fathers, by bearing a child alone, and calling it just another 'lifestyle choice.'"
While not exctly "blaming" Murphy Brown, VP Quayle did make commentary that, oh hell, who really cares, just forget the whole damn thing. The post isn't about Dan & Murphy, it was about CSI.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:12:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
That's funny, cause they interviewed a lot of the Arkansas state crime lab techs and Little Rock PD CSIs not long ago and they said CSI was the biggest croc of shit ever that it was great for a laugh.



It is inaccurate - no lab is that well funded.
Hardly any lab in the country has that kind of equipment.
And as far as DNA goes?
There is something like a 3 year wait from the FBI lab to get DNA results back.
CSI is a crock of shit, but only because they think you can solve a crime with physical evidence.
Physical evidence corroborates testimony, not the other way around.
If you keep your mouth shut, your chances of getting released before it evens comes to trial are pretty good.
Unless of course they got you deadbang - but that wouldn't happen if you were smart enough to shut up and lawyer up.
Course if you were actually smart, you wouldn't be sitting in an interrogation room anyway.



isn't it somewhere between 80-90% of alleged murderers get aquitted or don't even go to trial?

If you believe the TV show "the first 48" you can kill someone and as long as you keep your piehole shut, and there was no video or no obvious way to link you to it, they won't even suspect you, and even then it takes you fucking talking to go to jail. Guilty or not keep your cocksucker shut!



I can't believe how many people confess to murder on that show. People are stupid
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:13:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kooter:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
That's funny, cause they interviewed a lot of the Arkansas state crime lab techs and Little Rock PD CSIs not long ago and they said CSI was the biggest croc of shit ever that it was great for a laugh.



It is inaccurate - no lab is that well funded.
Hardly any lab in the country has that kind of equipment.
And as far as DNA goes?
There is something like a 3 year wait from the FBI lab to get DNA results back.
CSI is a crock of shit, but only because they think you can solve a crime with physical evidence.
Physical evidence corroborates testimony, not the other way around.
If you keep your mouth shut, your chances of getting released before it evens comes to trial are pretty good.
Unless of course they got you deadbang - but that wouldn't happen if you were smart enough to shut up and lawyer up.
Course if you were actually smart, you wouldn't be sitting in an interrogation room anyway.



isn't it somewhere between 80-90% of alleged murderers get aquitted or don't even go to trial?

If you believe the TV show "the first 48" you can kill someone and as long as you keep your piehole shut, and there was no video or no obvious way to link you to it, they won't even suspect you, and even then it takes you fucking talking to go to jail. Guilty or not keep your cocksucker shut!



I can't believe how many people confess to murder on that show. People are stupid

Yep.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:17:44 AM EDT


Criminals getting smarter or cops getting dumber (PC cops hired and promoted vs most qualified).
A wash, either way.



Kinda makes you think in a different way about MrClean4Hire, doesn't it?

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:20:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Ammonia works too, right? That's what they used in the Boondock Saints.



Criminals are stupid, if they really wanted it to work, they would use a mixture of ammonia and bleach.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:22:28 AM EDT
Hell, you can buy a forensics textbook for better information than on CSI.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:22:24 PM EDT
Police solve crimes through 3 different methods:

1) Physical evidence (fingerprints, DNA, etc.)
2) Eyewitness testimony
3) Confession

Eyewitness testimony is notorious for being unreliable. Defense attornys can often discredit an alleged witness in front of the jury. Physical evidence can be destroyed, or misplaced, or never even created in the first place. That leaves confession--so don't. Ever.

I read somewhere that over 80% of the people in prison made a self-incriminating statement to the authorities.

Repeat after me: "You have the right to remain silent. If you give up the right to remain silent, anything you say may be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have him present during questioning. If you so desire and can not afford one, an attorney will be appointed for you at no charge."

If the police ever say anything like these words to you, decline to answer ANY question on ANY subject and ask for your attorney. Be polite, but be firm.


Steve
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:54:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 6:58:32 AM EDT by Wdsman]

Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
First we register our weapons to make the police's job easier.

Then we ban certain types of bulletes to make the police safer.

Then we ban certain types of guns to make the police safer.

Then we created ballistic fingerprinting databases to make the police's job easier.

Then we created DNA databases to make the police's job easier.

Now we need to turn criminal investigation procedures into state secrets and ban TV shows to make police and prosecutor's jobs easier.

Where will it end?



We obviously need some common sense restrictions on the selling of Clorox.



Right! Because nobody really needs their clothes that white!

Only professional laundromats having the training to go after severe dirt. They should be the only ones allowed to have clorox. If we can't ban all clorox we at least need to pass legislation limiting access to high capacity bottles (those with over 10 liquid ounces).

Don't forget that clorox is a chemical. Drug manufacturers use chemicals. See they're bad.

Every year some children find their parents clorox and die from accidental drinking (AD's). We need to ban bleach for the children. If we can't ban it we need to pass a law requiring parents to keep their clorox in a bleach safe. It's for the children.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:00:34 AM EDT


Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est.

- Sir Francis Bacon


Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:02:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:
Ammonia works too, right? That's what they used in the Boondock Saints.




Well hell, next time I'm covering up a murder I'm gona use bleach and ammonia to hid my tracks!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:03:34 AM EDT
Oh please. I never learned anything from CSI that wasn't blatantly wrong or something I already knew from common sense. If I wanted to murder someone and get away with it scott free, I would. Thing is, I'm not the sort to commit crimes, so piss off John Law.
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