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Posted: 12/12/2013 11:53:20 AM EST
Person A sponsors (pays) the entry fee for Person B in a No Limit, Hold 'Em Tournament. Person B wins/cahses at tournament. What should the split be?

(Poll inbound)
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:54:20 AM EST
How good of a friend?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:55:21 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
How good of a friend?
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Good buddies, company poker tournament.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:55:26 AM EST
50/50. one bank rolled and one played. Seems like you both would lose with out the other.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:55:52 AM EST
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
50/50. one bank rolled and one played. Seems like you both would lose with out the other.
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Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:57:13 AM EST
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
50/50. one bank rolled and one played. Seems like you both would lose with out the other.
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Nailed it
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 11:59:03 AM EST
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:00:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.
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yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:00:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Fishious:


Good buddies, company poker tournament.
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Originally Posted By Fishious:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
How good of a friend?


Good buddies, company poker tournament.



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:00:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By grn06rubi:

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Originally Posted By grn06rubi:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
50/50. one bank rolled and one played. Seems like you both would lose with out the other.


Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:01:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By delemorte:


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.

If the person B had such great skills he could put up his own money...where is the risk for person B? The only thing person B is out is time he he loses everything.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:02:36 PM EST
50 50 is the least likely to produce any butt hurt. I would go with that
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:02:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:03:26 PM EST
You gotta pay to play. I say 60 to A. B wouldn't be in if not for A, or if they could, they aren't risking anything of their own.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:03:31 PM EST
You should have agreed to something BEFORE the tournament...
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:03:54 PM EST
50/50

one flies, one buys.

A is taking all the risk.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:04:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 12:04:53 PM EST by delemorte]
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Originally Posted By beardog30:

If the person B had such great skills he could put up his own money...where is the risk for person B? The only thing person B is out is time he he loses everything.
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Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.

If the person B had such great skills he could put up his own money...where is the risk for person B? The only thing person B is out is time he he loses everything.


true he is out nothing but person A has no way of making money on the deal with out B. Its a gamble.


PS i suck at poker and betting in general so suggest no one try to bankroll me.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:04:25 PM EST
50/50 plus the buy-in back

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:05:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dodgecoltracer:
50/50 plus the buy-in back

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yea i didn't think about that. the buy in should be taken from the winnings before the split.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:05:51 PM EST



If Person B lost everything in the tournament, would he offer to pay Person A half of the entry fee?

Doubt it.



Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:06:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dodgecoltracer:
50/50 plus the buy-in back

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I like this option.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:06:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By whollyshite:
You should have agreed to something BEFORE the tournament...
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This. You don't stake someone without a clear agreement of the split.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:07:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By dodgecoltracer:
50/50 plus the buy-in back

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That's how every stake I have ever done has been.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:08:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 12:08:56 PM EST by BeRzErKaS]
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By Fishious:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
How good of a friend?


Good buddies, company poker tournament.



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.


How good of a poker player?

Person B is being hired to do a job with no risk of personal loss. His skill is worth money but Person A is taking all the risk. 70/30 in favor of Person A seems fair.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:08:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 12:08:47 PM EST by beardog30]
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Originally Posted By delemorte:


true he is out nothing but person A has no way of making money on the deal with out B. Its a gamble.


PS i suck at poker and betting in general so suggest no one try to bankroll me.
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.

If the person B had such great skills he could put up his own money...where is the risk for person B? The only thing person B is out is time he he loses everything.


true he is out nothing but person A has no way of making money on the deal with out B. Its a gamble.


PS i suck at poker and betting in general so suggest no one try to bankroll me.

The part in red just made my point.

The higher the gamble the greater the potential reward or loss. That is the whole point behind risk management. The lower the risk the lower the payout, the higher the risk the higher the payout.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:09:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By whollyshite:
You should have agreed to something BEFORE the tournament...
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Tournament hasn't taken place, this is all hypothetical. Seeing what a small sample produces in regards to my curiosity.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:09:29 PM EST
For a single tourney?

50/50.

Long term staking agreements are a bit different. (Make-up)

Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:09:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 12:11:23 PM EST by Lucky_Day]
eta- if hypothetical, then I'd consider 30% of the winnings fair return for the investor.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:10:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BeRzErKaS:


How good of a poker player?

Person B is being hired to do a job with no risk of personal loss. His skill is worth money but Person A is taking all the risk. 70/30 in favor of Person A seems fair.
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Originally Posted By BeRzErKaS:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By Fishious:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
How good of a friend?


Good buddies, company poker tournament.



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.


How good of a poker player?

Person B is being hired to do a job with no risk of personal loss. His skill is worth money but Person A is taking all the risk. 70/30 in favor of Person A seems fair.
Generally not how it works.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:10:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By Fishious:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
How good of a friend?


Good buddies, company poker tournament.



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.


I agree. Just providing seed money isn't enough to claim half my winnings. Would you like to pay the bank 50% of your earnings for a small business you started with their loan?
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:11:13 PM EST
If I was just giving a small amount of money to a friend, 50/50 would be acceptable, but anything beyond that and person A should take at least 70/30 since all the risk belongs to him.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:11:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By delemorte:


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.



Kind of like stockholders.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:12:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 12:16:06 PM EST by FuriousYachtsman]
It would depend largely on the entry fee. $20 and the player probably has other options. $20K and he really "needed" person A.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:13:35 PM EST
Could lose it all.. Risk=reward 50/50
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:19:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By Fishious:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
How good of a friend?


Good buddies, company poker tournament.



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.


This. Terms should have been nailed down before paying the entry fee. It's not uncommon for someone to split winnings with folks who "sponsored" them.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:23:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:25:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 12:26:28 PM EST by Enlightenme556]
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Originally Posted By Eric802:


It's not "seed money", it's the only reason you'e in the tourney to begin with.
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Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By DarkNite:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By Fishious:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
How good of a friend?


Good buddies, company poker tournament.



Entry fee + ~25% of the winnings.
50-50 is way too much, unless that was the deal in the beginning.


I agree. Just providing seed money isn't enough to claim half my winnings. Would you like to pay the bank 50% of your earnings for a small business you started with their loan?


It's not "seed money", it's the only reason you'e in the tourney to begin with.

If you wanted 70% of the winnings for staking me I'd laugh in your face and borrow the money from someone else.

-wrong quote box. The idea stays the same.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:26:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By delemorte:


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.
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Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.



Same thing with investing in any company.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:30:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ffsparky26:



Same thing with investing in any company.
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Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.



Same thing with investing in any company.

I pay my Broker 35%...and he is damn good...my money is pretty safe with him. No way do I pay anything over 30% on a "gamble"...that is poor risk management.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:31:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By beardog30:

I pay my Broker 35%...and he is damn good...my money is pretty safe with him. No way do I pay anything over 30% on a "gamble"...that is poor risk management.
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Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.



Same thing with investing in any company.

I pay my Broker 35%...and he is damn good...my money is pretty safe with him. No way do I pay anything over 30% on a "gamble"...that is poor risk management.


A poker tournament is not an investment. At all.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:34:19 PM EST
If they are a good friend I would say 50/50 just to make it easy and not cause any hurt feelings/loss of friendship.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:36:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:


A poker tournament is not an investment. At all.
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
70/30 in favor of person A. Person A shouldered all the risk.


yet didn't have to do any of the work or have any of the skill.



Same thing with investing in any company.

I pay my Broker 35%...and he is damn good...my money is pretty safe with him. No way do I pay anything over 30% on a "gamble"...that is poor risk management.


A poker tournament is not an investment. At all.

It is a chance...a chance at winning money...putting money up for someone in a poker tournament isn't an investment? The OP is asking what the appropriate pay out for money he puts up should be if person B wins. Another word for putting up money would be "invest".
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:43:30 PM EST
60-40

The only thing B is risking is personal time.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:49:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By beardog30:

It is a chance...a chance at winning money...putting money up for someone in a poker tournament isn't an investment? The OP is asking what the appropriate pay out for money he puts up should be if person B wins. Another word for putting up money would be "invest".
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That's like saying scratch off tickets are an investment.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:51:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/12/2013 12:52:09 PM EST by beardog30]
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:

That's like saying scratch off tickets are an investment.
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

It is a chance...a chance at winning money...putting money up for someone in a poker tournament isn't an investment? The OP is asking what the appropriate pay out for money he puts up should be if person B wins. Another word for putting up money would be "invest".

That's like saying scratch off tickets are an investment.

Nobody said it is a good investment...but at least with scratch off lottery tickets, the risk reward ratio is appropriate. You really seem to be having a hard time with that concept.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:56:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By beardog30:

Nobody said it is a good investment...but at least with scratch off lottery tickets, the risk reward ratio is appropriate. You really seem to be having a hard time with that concept.
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Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

It is a chance...a chance at winning money...putting money up for someone in a poker tournament isn't an investment? The OP is asking what the appropriate pay out for money he puts up should be if person B wins. Another word for putting up money would be "invest".

That's like saying scratch off tickets are an investment.

Nobody said it is a good investment...but at least with scratch off lottery tickets, the risk reward ratio is appropriate. You really seem to be having a hard time with that concept.
Your 70/30 is not anywhere close to reality in the poker world.

A basic single stake will be 50/50 or sometimes 50/50 after stakeback.


Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:56:19 PM EST
any gambler knows that money gets half. You stake a player in pool, cards, etc. , you get half.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:57:06 PM EST
Some lower tier professional golfers are privately sponsored and the split varies.

I had a cousin that was sponsored for a short while after he advanced past a first round US Open qualifier.

I think it worked like so:

Sponsor pays entry fee for tourney, maybe some other expenses.

Golfer plays tourney.

If money is won, sponsor gets investment back first then a smaller percentage of the remainder. Say, 70/30.

If no money is won, the sponsor can walk away and the golfer owes nothing OR they can sponsor the next tourney and keep their fingers crossed...

I would expect the sponsor to get 100% of their entry fee back then split the profits in the favor of the guy that actually played the game.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:57:41 PM EST
How much is the buy in and how good a player are they? Regardless of what some will say it is an investment and knowing how much and how likely you are to win most definitely come into play. Spot a buddy $20 to play in a small game? Seed money and a beer is cool by me.
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 12:57:58 PM EST
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Originally Posted By beardog30:

Nobody said it is a good investment...but at least with scratch off lottery tickets, the risk reward ratio is appropriate. You really seem to be having a hard time with that concept.
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Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

It is a chance...a chance at winning money...putting money up for someone in a poker tournament isn't an investment? The OP is asking what the appropriate pay out for money he puts up should be if person B wins. Another word for putting up money would be "invest".

That's like saying scratch off tickets are an investment.

Nobody said it is a good investment...but at least with scratch off lottery tickets, the risk reward ratio is appropriate. You really seem to be having a hard time with that concept.

lol
Link Posted: 12/12/2013 1:00:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:

lol
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Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By Enlightenme556:
Originally Posted By beardog30:

It is a chance...a chance at winning money...putting money up for someone in a poker tournament isn't an investment? The OP is asking what the appropriate pay out for money he puts up should be if person B wins. Another word for putting up money would be "invest".

That's like saying scratch off tickets are an investment.

Nobody said it is a good investment...but at least with scratch off lottery tickets, the risk reward ratio is appropriate. You really seem to be having a hard time with that concept.

lol

Bless your little heart, sporto
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