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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:19:55 PM EST
GD statists will fap furious to this one


n March 2013, Steve Oates' home in Goodyear, Ariz. was stormed by police, SWAT, and DEA agents because of a marijuana grow room in the guest house.

"It was like something you see in the movies. It was 6:30 in the morning, and basically you hear 'bang! bang! bang!' on the door, and next thing you know you hear the crash of a battering ram," says Oates.

Oates' doctor had recommended medicinal marijuana for Oates' chronic back pain, so he attained a medical marijuana card with cultivation rights. Dispensaries were still few and far between at the time, and Oates didn't trust Craigslist for his medicine.
"I felt like the next alternative was to grow it ourselves," says Oates. Oates met a few other patients who shared concerns about underground marijuana channels, and they decided to start growing together. Oates had their entire supply during the raid, which ended up being more than the permitted amount that he could grow with cultivation rights. He pled guilty to possessing under two pounds of marijuana.

But the conviction ended up being the smallest price that Oates had to pay. Goodyear Police Department brought Oates' case to the Attorney General, who consequently slapped Oates with over $455,000 in civil asset forfeiture. Civil asset forfeiture is when the government can seize property and finances that they suspect have a connection to illicit activity. However, they sue the property instead of the person, so there doesn't have to be a related conviction.

"That's what they're claiming, is that the market value of the sales that he allegedly made was $455,000," says Oates' attorney John Moore. "They don't have any proof or any evidence that the property that they are trying to forfeit is related to the crime of his possession of marijuana for sale."

Oates says that between property taken, bank accounts seized, and legal fees, he has actually lost over $600,000, but that he would "rather spend every dollar on an attorney than just let [law enforcement] have it."

Moore is helping Oates fight to get his assets back, yet says it's easier said than done.

"In a typical civil case, it's the plaintiff that has the burden of proof. But in a civil forfeiture case, it turns­­ out it's actually the defendant that has to show where this money came from," says Moore. "We have to show by preponderance of the evidence, that this money that they are trying to forfeit came from legal means.

Moore adds that Arizona has a direct incentive to utilize asset forfeiture because unlike other states, Arizona law enforcement gets to keep seized funds for their own departments.

"Their focus is on raising revenues instead of actual law enforcement itself," says Moore. "Instead of going after real drug dealers who are transporting across state lines or criminal gangs that are creating great crime and personal injury to people, they're going after an individual because they know he had funds in his bank account.

http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/18/vid-over-455000-seized-from-medical-mari


Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:34:31 PM EST
ZFG.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:40:13 PM EST
Gotta love thieves.

Hey, it's cool though, they have a badge.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:41:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 9:44:51 PM EST by Kbear]
Reason. com ....check

2lbs for personal use.....check

$600k is assets to seize....check

Not a statist, but not gullible either.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:43:55 PM EST
Gotta keep the King's men employed, citizens won't rob themselves.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:44:57 PM EST
I thought Holder shut that shit down?

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:45:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kbear:
Reason. com ....check

2lbs for personal use.....check

$600k is assets to seize....check

Not a statist, but not gullible either.
View Quote

Do expand
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:46:47 PM EST
I don't like the law, but sounds like he was breaking state and fed ones when he sold his pot.

The medical and ID card crap went right out the window when he decided to become a drug dealer, and not just a medicinal user
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:48:50 PM EST
See post above^^^^^

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4Kilo12:

Do expand
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Originally Posted By 4Kilo12:
Originally Posted By Kbear:
Reason. com ....check

2lbs for personal use.....check

$600k is assets to seize....check

Not a statist, but not gullible either.

Do expand

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:50:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
I thought Holder shut that shit down?

View Quote

The guy was busted in March of 2013, the linked story in the OP is August of last year.

I don't think Holder shut it down entirely anyway.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:50:46 PM EST
Asset forfeiture: We'll seize your assets and money, then use the same seized "guilty" money to pay for our own defense so that you cant sue us back for it! And if you win the case, we'll have already spent atleast 40% of it already, mostly in paperwork and attorneys fees!
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:54:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 9:56:01 PM EST by kncook]
Gonna get bashed by the GD freedom experts here but away I go......in a civil forfeiture process the govt alleges the property they are going after is obtained from illegal activity. They can't just take the money (which it appears they are seizing) based on the guy just owning it. It is accused of being connected to him selling to others on the side. Not the fact he had two pot plants. That are stating he moved $600k or whatever. If the guy is on disability and worked a $30,000 job and last worked at it 8 yrs ago with no "proof" of where over half a million dollars came from its going to get you loved tenderly. Especially if he can't say where all the assets and cash in his accounts came from. You also get one end of every one of these because the cops don't thro all the info on the front page with Mr. Do Good citizen and Mr Justice for All (with money) lawyer.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:54:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cpt_Kirks:
I thought Holder shut that shit down?

View Quote


Not so much, he made it a states rights issue, and I do believe it is the state in this case that is charging him, not the feds....
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 9:57:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kncook:
Gonna get bashed by the GD freedom experts here but away I go......in a civil forfeiture process the govt alleges the property they are going after is obtained from illegal activity. They can't just take the money (which it appears they are seizing) based on the guy just owning it. It is accused of being connected to him selling to others on the side. Not the fact he had two pot plants. That are stating he moved $600k or whatever. If the guy is on disability and worked a $30,000 job and last worked at it 8 yrs ago with no "proof" of where over half a million dollars came from its going to get you loved tenderly. Especially if he can't say where all the assets and cash in his accounts came from. You also get one end of every one of these because the cops don't thro all the info on the front page with Mr. Do Good citizen and Mr Justice for All (with money) lawyer.
View Quote


Logic and facts hate freedom.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:01:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By vojta:
ZFG.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:05:56 PM EST
The food he ate was payed for with ill gotten gains.

We the people must be made whole.

Therefore his body should be siezed and his organs harvested.

The organs rightfully belong to those of us.

That are free of the evils of criminality.





Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:06:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 10:06:48 PM EST by shade_1313]
All y'all who are good with this, I have nothing but contempt for.

Not that the guy didn't fuck up by breaking the rules which go with his card, but asset forfeiture is godsdamned commie bullshit.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:06:35 PM EST
Druggie = shitbird = GOOD STEAL!
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:07:34 PM EST
Azcentral ran a story...said 156 mj plants and 10lbs of weed seized
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:09:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Druggie = shitbird = GOOD STEAL!
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:09:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 10:11:01 PM EST by Lucifer_Sam]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kncook:
Gonna get bashed by the GD freedom experts here but away I go......in a civil forfeiture process the govt alleges the property they are going after is obtained from illegal activity. They can't just take the money (which it appears they are seizing) based on the guy just owning it. It is accused of being connected to him selling to others on the side. Not the fact he had two pot plants. That are stating he moved $600k or whatever. If the guy is on disability and worked a $30,000 job and last worked at it 8 yrs ago with no "proof" of where over half a million dollars came from its going to get you loved tenderly. Especially if he can't say where all the assets and cash in his accounts came from. You also get one end of every one of these because the cops don't thro all the info on the front page with Mr. Do Good citizen and Mr Justice for All (with money) lawyer.
View Quote



He's employed, and kept records, he claims to have lost 6000$ growing. He was doing it for about a year, so unless hes some pot version of Walter White, making 450k isn't going to be happening. If that were commonly possible I'd have known a buttload of self made millionaires in college.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:10:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
All y'all who are good with this, I have nothing but contempt for.

Not that the guy didn't fuck up by breaking the rules which go with his card, but asset forfeiture is godsdamned commie bullshit.
View Quote


This poor guy got fucked too....
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:10:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:12:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tcrpe:

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Originally Posted By tcrpe:
Originally Posted By vojta:
ZFG.



Isolated incident.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:13:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By XNARC:
Azcentral ran a story...said 156 mj plants and 10lbs of weed seized
View Quote


quite a few tokes over the line
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:14:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kncook:
Gonna get bashed by the GD freedom experts here but away I go......in a civil forfeiture process the govt alleges the property they are going after is obtained from illegal activity. They can't just take the money (which it appears they are seizing) based on the guy just owning it. It is accused of being connected to him selling to others on the side. Not the fact he had two pot plants. That are stating he moved $600k or whatever. If the guy is on disability and worked a $30,000 job and last worked at it 8 yrs ago with no "proof" of where over half a million dollars came from its going to get you loved tenderly. Especially if he can't say where all the assets and cash in his accounts came from. You also get one end of every one of these because the cops don't thro all the info on the front page with Mr. Do Good citizen and Mr Justice for All (with money) lawyer.
View Quote

If it is so open and shut why didn't they use criminal asset forfeiture? Why charge the money rather than the person?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:14:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 10:15:36 PM EST by Aw4g63]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kncook:
Gonna get bashed by the GD freedom experts here but away I go......in a civil forfeiture process the govt alleges the property they are going after is obtained from illegal activity. They can't just take the money (which it appears they are seizing) based on the guy just owning it. It is accused of being connected to him selling to others on the side. Not the fact he had two pot plants. That are stating he moved $600k or whatever. If the guy is on disability and worked a $30,000 job and last worked at it 8 yrs ago with no "proof" of where over half a million dollars came from its going to get you loved tenderly. Especially if he can't say where all the assets and cash in his accounts came from. You also get one end of every one of these because the cops don't thro all the info on the front page with Mr. Do Good citizen and Mr Justice for All (with money) lawyer.
View Quote



So let me bounce this off ya.......Just to play the other side of the coin.
You shouldn't need to document where all your money came from. As long as your taxes are up to date and they can't prove you sold anything, they should be able to take nothing.
What if he inherited money, from relatives over the course of his life? Smaller, undocumented amounts, or gifted.

The point is, they should have to prove in any case, that your money is dirty.
But that's just me.


It's like getting your car taken for driving out of a bar parking lot.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:15:57 PM EST
I am fapping.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:16:14 PM EST
If they convict him then asset seizure is fine. If they can't secure a conviction, he should get it all back. <<shrugs>> Civil forfeiture is nothing more than state sponsored theft...regardless of the origining 'good intentions'.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:16:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Druggie = shitbird = GOOD STEAL!
View Quote

Can't wait till you claim PTSD and lose your guns.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:18:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 10:21:37 PM EST by Lucifer_Sam]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
So he had $ 600k laying around but was just growing for his buddies who were sick, uh huh.
View Quote



They didn't seize that in cash in his house or anything, they're trying to say he made 450k selling marijuana, and are taking it from his bank account and assets. The 650 or 600k is the total that he's spent with lawyers, repairs, etc.

At least, according to that article.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:18:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By peekay:

Can't wait till you claim PTSD and lose your guns.

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Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Druggie = shitbird = GOOD STEAL!

Can't wait till you claim PTSD and lose your guns.


Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:19:11 PM EST
What did they expect? Right or wrong, it is illegal, federally. The fed doesn't give a damn about state laws. That's what cracks me up about Colorado. Why risk federal charges?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:20:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Aimless:
So he had $ 600k laying around but was just growing for his buddies who were sick, uh huh.
View Quote


yeah, no shit. Sounds legit.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:20:32 PM EST
lets be real here folks. he was fucking growing and dealing. this isn't some dude who got busted for having an extra Mr Beer home brewing kit ok.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:21:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kncook:
Gonna get bashed by the GD freedom experts here but away I go......in a civil forfeiture process the govt alleges the property they are going after is obtained from illegal activity. They can't just take the money (which it appears they are seizing) based on the guy just owning it. It is accused of being connected to him selling to others on the side. Not the fact he had two pot plants. That are stating he moved $600k or whatever. If the guy is on disability and worked a $30,000 job and last worked at it 8 yrs ago with no "proof" of where over half a million dollars came from its going to get you loved tenderly. Especially if he can't say where all the assets and cash in his accounts came from. You also get one end of every one of these because the cops don't thro all the info on the front page with Mr. Do Good citizen and Mr Justice for All (with money) lawyer.
View Quote

You miss the point. In a free nation, the government has to show just cause why they should seize assets, they have to prove that the assets are ill-gotten gains. Only in a tyrannical and unjust system can the government just walk in and take stuff and say, "prove it's legit or we keep it." The guy appears to be a dealer: so it should be simple for the gov to prove their case, that the assets are dirty. If they can't prove it, it doesn't matter if he's a dealer: if they can't prove otherwise, the assets are legit.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:22:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By XNARC:
Azcentral ran a story...said 156 mj plants and 10lbs of weed seized
View Quote


Exactly. Dude pled guilty to 2 pounds to avoid going to jail for life. This guy was a serious grower. For those not versed in the marijuana business, the way these operations work is that the grower has mother plants that are in a constant vegetative state. He or she takes cuttings from the mothers and roots them and lets them grow to a certain height under an 18 to 24 hour light cycle. Those plants are then put under a 12 hour light cycle, which forces them to flower. The best commercial strains can fully flower in 6 weeks. As soon as those plants are harvested, the next group is put under the 12 hour cycle lights, meaning that if you have a system capable of flowering 160 plants at a time, you can easily grow 10 pounds of high grade pot every 6 weeks.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:23:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kbear:
Reason. com ....check

2lbs for personal use.....check

$600k is assets to seize....check

Not a statist, but not gullible either.
View Quote

Don't you remember? Stoners are very successful professionally.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:23:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Howie_Phelterbush:
lets be real here folks. he was fucking growing and dealing. this isn't some dude who got busted for having an extra Mr Beer home brewing kit ok.
View Quote

Big fucking deal. Why is everyone in GD so "ZOMGZ THE EVIL WEED KILL EVERYONE WHO SMOKES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'


Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:24:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By peekay:

Can't wait till you claim PTSD and lose your guns.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By peekay:
Originally Posted By QCMGR:
Druggie = shitbird = GOOD STEAL!

Can't wait till you claim PTSD and lose your guns.


Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:25:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aimless:
So he had $ 600k laying around but was just growing for his buddies who were sick, uh huh.
View Quote

But he had a cultivation card!
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:26:37 PM EST
lol
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:27:50 PM EST
Oh no a 'serious' pot grower.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:28:35 PM EST
I, for one, am glad this super dangerous drug dealer is off the streets.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:29:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Truth2882:

Big fucking deal. Why is everyone in GD so "ZOMGZ THE EVIL WEED KILL EVERYONE WHO SMOKES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'


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Originally Posted By Truth2882:
Originally Posted By Howie_Phelterbush:
lets be real here folks. he was fucking growing and dealing. this isn't some dude who got busted for having an extra Mr Beer home brewing kit ok.

Big fucking deal. Why is everyone in GD so "ZOMGZ THE EVIL WEED KILL EVERYONE WHO SMOKES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'




No dude, I'm not like that. Just don't put sprinkles on a turd and tell it's a sundae.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:30:09 PM EST
In before the turtle neck get them dopers pic
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:30:41 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kbear:


No dude, I'm not like that. Just don't put sprinkles on a turd and tell it's a sundae.
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Originally Posted By Kbear:
Originally Posted By Truth2882:
Originally Posted By Howie_Phelterbush:
lets be real here folks. he was fucking growing and dealing. this isn't some dude who got busted for having an extra Mr Beer home brewing kit ok.

Big fucking deal. Why is everyone in GD so "ZOMGZ THE EVIL WEED KILL EVERYONE WHO SMOKES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'




No dude, I'm not like that. Just don't put sprinkles on a turd and tell it's a sundae.


But but glaucoma...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:32:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 10:40:42 PM EST by kncook]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aw4g63:



So let me bounce this off ya.......Just to play the other side of the coin.
You shouldn't need to document where all your money came from. As long as your taxes are up to date and they can't prove you sold anything, they should be able to take nothing.
What if he inherited money, from relatives over the course of his life? Smaller, undocumented amounts, or gifted.

The point is, they should have to prove in any case, that your money is dirty.
But that's just me.


It's like getting your car taken for driving out of a bar parking lot.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By Aw4g63:
Originally Posted By kncook:
Gonna get bashed by the GD freedom experts here but away I go......in a civil forfeiture process the govt alleges the property they are going after is obtained from illegal activity. They can't just take the money (which it appears they are seizing) based on the guy just owning it. It is accused of being connected to him selling to others on the side. Not the fact he had two pot plants. That are stating he moved $600k or whatever. If the guy is on disability and worked a $30,000 job and last worked at it 8 yrs ago with no "proof" of where over half a million dollars came from its going to get you loved tenderly. Especially if he can't say where all the assets and cash in his accounts came from. You also get one end of every one of these because the cops don't thro all the info on the front page with Mr. Do Good citizen and Mr Justice for All (with money) lawyer.



So let me bounce this off ya.......Just to play the other side of the coin.
You shouldn't need to document where all your money came from. As long as your taxes are up to date and they can't prove you sold anything, they should be able to take nothing.
What if he inherited money, from relatives over the course of his life? Smaller, undocumented amounts, or gifted.

The point is, they should have to prove in any case, that your money is dirty.
But that's just me.


It's like getting your car taken for driving out of a bar parking lot.

Your right. I believe they should just make the burden of proof like a criminal case and put it on the prosecution/other party. Not do away with seizures. I'm also saying don't be surprised when you attract unwanted attention with things you can't explain or document.....the old adage goes "where there is smoke......"

Eta: also....it shouldn't be this way but why would a guy have spent $600k on $450k worth of cash/assets when all they need is simple proof on his end? FYI the paperwork and docs are pretty involved on the govt end of this....if there is a good chance this guy can get his cash back they would not file a forfeiture....it's pretty involved and sucks up much of the officers and court personells time.

As much as the procedure is screwed up I think it has its place....how and when it can be done needs amending but I also feel this guys story reeks....and it never should have got this far if legit.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:33:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:


But but glaucoma...

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Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:
Originally Posted By Kbear:
Originally Posted By Truth2882:
Originally Posted By Howie_Phelterbush:
lets be real here folks. he was fucking growing and dealing. this isn't some dude who got busted for having an extra Mr Beer home brewing kit ok.

Big fucking deal. Why is everyone in GD so "ZOMGZ THE EVIL WEED KILL EVERYONE WHO SMOKES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'




No dude, I'm not like that. Just don't put sprinkles on a turd and tell it's a sundae.


But but glaucoma...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Freedom and less .gov intervention, do you speak it? From some of your other posts Im going with no.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:41:29 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Truth2882:

Freedom and less .gov intervention, do you speak it? From some of your other posts Im going with no.
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Critical thinking, do you do it? Don't be used as a tool. Read the article, question it's motives, ask questions about portions that don't make sense. Do this for everything you see, read, and hear.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 10:42:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kbear:


Critical thinking, do you do it? Don't be used as a tool. Read the article, question it's motives, ask questions about portions that don't make sense. Do this for everything you see, read, and hear.
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Originally Posted By Kbear:
Originally Posted By Truth2882:

Freedom and less .gov intervention, do you speak it? From some of your other posts Im going with no.


Critical thinking, do you do it? Don't be used as a tool. Read the article, question it's motives, ask questions about portions that don't make sense. Do this for everything you see, read, and hear.

I did read the article.
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