Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 8/8/2007 11:51:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2007 11:52:17 AM EDT by CBR900]
Turns out these jokers are actually former Brady Center / Handgun Control Inc. lobbyists who want to:

BAN AND CONFISCATE YOUR GUNS

I looked up their website (please leave cold to keep mods happy & to stay anon.)

http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=33

Looks fine - right? Not so fast.

Bio of their President, John E. Rosenthal, this guy:



Makes him seem like a regular guy on their webpage. But when I did some digging, turns out he is actually the founder of another group: "Stop Handgun Violence", a leading Massachusetts-based gun-banning lobbying group.

Then theres the former football star, Ray Schoenke, the founding president:




Just another retired NFL player? Try slick anti-gun politician.

Turns out he's a Maryland Democrat who ran for governor. Ray Schoenke has given millions of $$ to Democratic politicians and causes. This is according to a pro-democrat newspaper (Washington Post) in an article from January 19, 1988.

But, does that make him anti-gun?

-among the groups that this guy donated to are 2 that actively lobby to ban firearms: "Handgun Control, Inc." (I.e Brady Center) and "America Coming Together." Schoenke was on the democratic governor MD, Paris Glendening's "Commission on Gun Violence in 1996." This commission lead direclty to MD's "smart gun" law that required integrated gun locks (for a while all handguns w/o internal locks were banned in MD thanks to him) and MD's ineffective "fired casing fingerprint" law that has not solved a single crime but costs the state millions and prevents many makers from selling in MD.

Now you know. But, make sure your friends and family who hunt, shoot, own guns for whatever reason, are not taken in by these scam artists.

What they are doing may not be against the law. But, it sure seems misleading, unethical and crooked as heck.

CBR



Link Posted: 8/8/2007 11:55:05 AM EDT
interesting
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 11:57:35 AM EDT
I'd say "welcome to last year", but this is something that people should always keep fresh in their minds.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 11:58:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2007 11:58:45 AM EDT by Codename46]
tag.

This is fucking great.

Why isn't there a fake "violence prevention" organization composed of gun rights lobbyists?
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 12:00:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2007 12:35:48 PM EDT by M4builder]
They are trying to divide the gun owners up. (divide & conquer tactic)

According to a 2003 Field & Stream National Hunting Survey, sportsmen overwhelmingly support reasonable gun safety proposals. Moreover, an overwhelming majority of hunters support proposals like background checks to purchase guns, keeping military style assault weapons off our streets and the elimination of cop killer bullets.

In recent years, extreme political positions purporting to support gun rights have jeopardized our sport and have hurt the image of responsible gun owners. Unless the sporting community can become unified behind an organization that fights for safe and responsible hunting and shooting practices and sensible gun ownership, future generations may be unable to participate in and enjoy the shooting sports.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 12:01:03 PM EDT
I thought this was already known
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 12:32:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2007 12:39:37 PM EDT by CBR900]
This gets even better folks.

I did some digging around on their own site. They feature their very own version of Jim Zumbo. His name is "Tony Dean" and he apparently agrees with Jim Zumbo! Here is his photo:



Looks like a nice old guy with a bass-boat right? He has his own TV and Radio show apparently in the Dakotas. Here is a link to his site as linked from the anti-gun American Hunters and Shooters Association (again please leave cold):

http://www.tonydean.com/

Turns out that Tony had something to say about "the Zumbo affair" that I found on his homepage. Entitled: "another Look at the Zumbo Affair" Tony chose to put the following editorial, by Eric Baerren of the Michigan "Mt Pleasant Morning Sun" on his page.

The Editorial ATTACKS TED NUGENT and apparently supports Zumbo's original position against the AR-15 in civilian hands. Here is the link (leave cold):

http://www.tonydean.com/issues2.html?sectionid=8348

Here are a few quotes from Tony Dean's choice of editorials to put on his page:

"This latest escapade [Zumbo affair] pushes the hunting community in with people who think it's swell to hunt prairie dogs with military-style hardware. What kind of person sees the sport in this? I don't think it's sporting, necessary or even - on a very basic level - whether it's hunting. It's more akin to getting drunk and shooting junkyard rats. What's more, I tend to assume that people who think it's OK are driven by extremism and a love of guns. That's likely to hurt hunters if another hunting-related vote comes around, which is too bad. Hunting deserves better than to get saddled with a bunch of unnecessarily bad baggage. The truth of it is that there is no coordinated campaign to take away anyone's hunting rifles and shotguns. If you think that, you've been duped."

Or later in the same piece - again, by Eric Baerren, not Dean:

"The NRA is not concerned with these things[conservation]; it is more interested in convincing people that a shotgun and an assault rifle are the same thing (If they realized they aren't, they might start asking hard questions about why people are allowed to own assault rifles - as a matter of disclosure, I do not support an assault rifle ban, because I think banning guns does nothing to solve the underlying problems that create crime). Unfortunately, there are two outcomes to this kind of extremist thinking. Either it corrects itself, or it runs off a cliff. This is an ironclad political truth.

The question for hunters is whether they recognize that the NRA itself is too rigid and inflexible. The evidence for this is in their ironfisted advocacy for hunting prairie dogs with civilian models of military rifles.

Once this kind of thing hits the mainstream, regular people are more likely to see people who endorse this kind of thing as bullet-addled yahoos getting their rocks off blasting rodents with high-powered weapons. "

Guess that makes everyone on Arfcom "bullet-addled yahoos?"

Again, Dean did not write the editorial. But why would he put it up on his page if he did not agree with it?

Fine, I am a yahoo. But I know a "Zumbo Jr." when I see one (Dean) and I also see that this AHSA is just a front group that is trying to divide gun owners in preparation to ban guns.

Link Posted: 8/8/2007 12:58:38 PM EDT
Right up there with "Gunguys.com", an anti website owned & operated by the "freedom states alliance" - a "progressive" (ie libtard) group, that adopts the shroud of backwoods pickup truck driving hunter to mask their real "we know better than you 'little people'" personas... much like sKerry, the Yale Grad picture perfect diction machine walking into the New Hampshire gun store asking "Can I get me one-a them there huntin' licenses here?"

Known about them for a gew years now (IIRC they came out around '04 in "support" of sKerry) - good to keep tabs on 'em.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 1:29:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CBR900:
"Tony Dean"


Pure Fudd. What a shitbag to cut off his own nose to spite his face.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:07:15 PM EDT
Not surprising as a lot of hunters have no idea about shooting out side of their hunting world. Note Jim Zumbo for example (BTW, he had a nice write up in the latest SWAT magazine). The hunters I've encounter are actually pro gun control and don't even know it. Their additude is summed up with "as long I have my ____ hunting rifle, I don't care. Go ahead and ban the other stupid assult rifles I would never use." Their ignorance pains my heart, as this is not the time for shooters to be divided. We must all remain united as we all love to shoot.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:08:43 PM EDT
I already knew about this but the shitbags need to be continually outed IMO

Lotsa new folks probably don't know
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:10:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CBR900:
Turns out these jokers are actually former Brady Center / Handgun Control Inc. lobbyists who want to:

BAN AND CONFISCATE YOUR GUNS

I looked up their website (please leave cold to keep mods happy & to stay anon.)

http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=33

Looks fine - right? Not so fast.

Bio of their President, John E. Rosenthal, this guy:

www.huntersandshooters.com/images/stories/rosenthal.jpg

Makes him seem like a regular guy on their webpage. But when I did some digging, turns out he is actually the founder of another group: "Stop Handgun Violence", a leading Massachusetts-based gun-banning lobbying group.

Then theres the former football star, Ray Schoenke, the founding president:

www.huntersandshooters.com/images/stories/schoenke.jpg


Just another retired NFL player? Try slick anti-gun politician.

Turns out he's a Maryland Democrat who ran for governor. Ray Schoenke has given millions of $$ to Democratic politicians and causes. This is according to a pro-democrat newspaper (Washington Post) in an article from January 19, 1988.

But, does that make him anti-gun?

-among the groups that this guy donated to are 2 that actively lobby to ban firearms: "Handgun Control, Inc." (I.e Brady Center) and "America Coming Together." Schoenke was on the democratic governor MD, Paris Glendening's "Commission on Gun Violence in 1996." This commission lead direclty to MD's "smart gun" law that required integrated gun locks (for a while all handguns w/o internal locks were banned in MD thanks to him) and MD's ineffective "fired casing fingerprint" law that has not solved a single crime but costs the state millions and prevents many makers from selling in MD.

Now you know. But, make sure your friends and family who hunt, shoot, own guns for whatever reason, are not taken in by these scam artists.

What they are doing may not be against the law. But, it sure seems misleading, unethical and crooked as heck.

CBR





They are not fake. They are catering to FUDDS. The hope is that FUDDS will quite the NRA and join their "hunting rifle" club.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:12:57 PM EDT
this is old news. They aren't actually anti-gun..they're just fudds. Bolt actions and shotguns are fine. The fun stuff should be BANNED though
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:14:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
this is old news. They aren't actually anti-gun..they're just fudds. Bolt actions and shotguns are fine. The fun stuff should be BANNED though


They want to regulate .50 cals under NFA rules. Check their "gun rights tab
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:16:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanielT:

Originally Posted By CBR900:
"Tony Dean"


Pure Fudd. What a shitbag to cut off his own nose to spite his face.


He is also a well-known liar. Dean harps about how wealthy hunters are killing waterfowling. To prove this he tells a story about going to an elaborate underground hunting lodge/blind to hunt snow geese. The place had an underground parking garage, works of art hanging on the walls, gun safes full of very expensive Italian shotguns, etc. This UNDERGROUND palace is in the middle of a rice field. Think about that for a minute and let it sink in.

Dean claims the owner swore him to secrecy, so he cannot reveal the exact location of this mythical place, or the name of the owner.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:18:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tannim:

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
this is old news. They aren't actually anti-gun..they're just fudds. Bolt actions and shotguns are fine. The fun stuff should be BANNED though


They want to regulate .50 cals under NFA rules. Check their "gun rights tab


see my comment about the fun stuff.


they see no sporting purpose with .50 cals..


as if taking them to the range and competing in a marksmanship competition isn't a sport.

Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:22:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxwell71:
I thought this was already known


It was by many of us, but it looks like many more didn't know.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:28:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
this is old news. They aren't actually anti-gun..they're just fudds. Bolt actions and shotguns are fine. The fun stuff should be BANNED though


They are not just fudds they are die hard anti's who realized that a frontal assault on gun rights was not going anywhere fast and came up with a wolf in sheeps clothing approach --wear some cammo, pose in front of a bass boat and try to draw off the "sportsmen" with the whole, we are not after granddads bolt gun or your duck shotgun (for now) and if you help us throw the scary rifle owners under the bus we will leave you alone, approach. Most of all they try to hide who they really are, recently they ran adds in many states trying to scuttle the tihart ammendment, which would have hurt ALL gun owners. if they have to lie about who they are, where thier funding comes from and what thier goals are why would you give them the time of day ?
they were founded for the express purpose of jumpstarting a stalled gun control agenda and splitting hunters from the "herd" of gun owners in hopes of using them.
Say what you want about NRA,GOA,JFPO what have you or each groups individual strageties they are proven gun rights orgainisations --AHSA is a trojan horse designed to decieve.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:33:56 PM EDT
Heheheh. They are really trying hard, aren't they?
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:46:04 PM EDT
Gunguys.com It's more loke gunlies!
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 3:53:18 PM EDT
Supposedly the guy who founded it left the Brady Campaign because he discovered they weren't interested in reducing gun violence, only banning all guns.

So he started his own group which pretty much wants to ban guns.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 4:05:01 PM EDT

"Once this kind of thing hits the mainstream, regular people are more likely to see people who endorse this kind of thing as bullet-addled yahoos getting their rocks off blasting rodents deer with high-powered weapons. "



I wonder how this fool will feel when they make the correction above.


Link Posted: 8/8/2007 4:09:16 PM EDT
I thought it would've been obvious from the fact that they're hunters.


Hunters are notorious for "Ban all guns except mine" shenanigans in the past.


Just look at the UK's NRA.

Oh, and the US NRA.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 4:18:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 4:36:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Current-Resident:
I thought it would've been obvious from the fact that they're hunters.


Hunters are notorious for "Ban all guns except mine" shenanigans in the past.


Just look at the UK's NRA.

Oh, and the US NRA.


You don't know many hunters then. Repeating stereotypes is not productive.

*I am a hunter.


I too am a hunter. And an NRA Life Member. And a ban-NO-guns kind of guy. As are all the other hunters I know (and I know dozens).
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 8:04:14 PM EDT
We need to stick together going into 2008.

I spent a lot of my weekends as a teen hunting deer, geese, etc. though I have not hunted in a decade.

Do many hunters "not get it?"

- Yeah, Jimbo Zumbo proved that.

Have we convinced other hunters of the importance of preserving ALL firearms rights?

-Yeah, Ted Nugent has proven that there is hope.

As for the NRA, if you have problems with them, join the GOA instead. While I was not happy about how they handled/tried to de-rail Parker, I am glad we have BOTH organizations in our corner. We need to educate the hunters, not alienate them.

I am convined that AHSA is simply a front group trying to divide us further. Don't let them win!
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 8:14:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Current-Resident:
I thought it would've been obvious from the fact that they're hunters.


Hunters are notorious for "Ban all guns except mine" shenanigans in the past.


Just look at the UK's NRA.

Oh, and the US NRA.


This post is utter bullshit that keeps being repeated in these forums on a daily basis.
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 8:38:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Current-Resident:
I thought it would've been obvious from the fact that they're hunters.


Hunters are notorious for "Ban all guns except mine" shenanigans in the past.


Just look at the UK's NRA.

Oh, and the US NRA.


You don't know many hunters then. Repeating stereotypes is not productive.

*I am a hunter.


I too am a hunter. And an NRA Life Member. And a ban-NO-guns kind of guy. As are all the other hunters I know (and I know dozens).


I hate it when people bash all hunters as if they are all anti assault rifle/handgun guys

Its not true, but I will say there is an awful lot of them,

I know lots of hunters who think that way. To them a gun is only a tool to hunt with, not something "fun", or something to protect their lives or freedom. If it wasn't for hunting they probably wouldn't have guns.

So yeah I can see how the stereotype got out there. I see it all the time. ( I live in a big hunting area )
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 9:17:47 PM EDT
Lest we forget these two assholes;
Pat Wray, http://gtconnect.com/articles/2007/02/25/sports/venture/1ven01_wray.txt

-and-

Field & Stream’s David E. Petzal.
Heres a nice little qoute from him:

Gun owners — all gun owners — pay a heavy price for having to defend the availability of these weapons. The American public — and the gun-owning public; especially the gun-owning public — would be better off without the hardcore military arms, which puts the average sportsman in a real dilemma.”


Well, the interesting part is Pat Wray is also a founding member of American Hunters and Shooters Association, his idea of gun rights is owning a single shot shotgun to hunt culkars or what ever the bird was he wrote the book about.

As for hunters, well, heh, too many prominent outdoor/hunter writers have proven they are anti any gun they don't hunt with.

Don't believe me? How may Fudd-run-in-at-the-range-stories have been posted here over the years?
Link Posted: 8/8/2007 9:29:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/9/2007 11:10:43 AM EDT
Why not let's set up shop, like a mini ARFCOM, on these other "fudd" sites. We'll carry on as usual over there posting about the sporting use, self deffense, home deffense our AR's,as well as other tactical guns can provide. some may see the bennifit of our guns and start a movement themselves. I think the more mainstream our sporting rifles are the better off we will be.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 5:18:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BIGGUNZZ:
Why not let's set up shop, like a mini ARFCOM, on these other "fudd" sites. We'll carry on as usual over there posting about the sporting use, self deffense, home deffense our AR's,as well as other tactical guns can provide. some may see the bennifit of our guns and start a movement themselves. I think the more mainstream our sporting rifles are the better off we will be.


That is a GREAT idea! I looked around AHSA site and I did not find a forum. But, there is a link to several organizations there that DO have forums. I am on a mission! More to follow.

BTW - anyone know what the largest hunter's forum on the net might be? Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 5:19:45 AM EDT
It's already been mentioned, but...

Holy Moses! This is very old news.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 5:22:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Codename46:
tag.

This is fucking great.

Why isn't there a fake "violence prevention" organization composed of gun rights lobbyists?


That is called the NRA, and the "refuse to be a victim" program.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 7:57:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
It's already been mentioned, but...

Holy Moses! This is very old news.


Well yes, that is true. The real problem with this AHSA group is:

THEY ARE NOT YET OUT OF BUSINESS!!!

Which suggests to me that they somehow manage to attract new members - obviously not everyone knows about them. Hence, the recurring public service announcement (I have to do it - you know its for the children!).

Besides, first the Zumbo affair blows up & Zumbo sees the light. Now we find an NRA Board member who advocated banning the AR15 in a newspaper article.

Anyone think that 100% of the gun owning community is on board going into 2008? I don't. Not even 100% of the NRA's BOD actually "gets it" on the issue of the AR15.

We have a lot of work to do to avoid another Assault Weapon Ban during the next administration. It starts with steps like taking back the gun owners mis-lead by AHSA, Zumbo, etc.
Top Top