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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/10/2005 5:30:43 PM EDT
Rant on...

So I sparred today. There were only two other guys in the class. One I have taken classes with for several months. I have a good 40 pounds on him so even though he is more experienced than I am I don't try to muscle or over power him and I try to work on technique. I usually get the best of him in when we roll but we have a good respect for each other and spar very well together. After a sparring match we always laugh, talk about what happened, and give each other pointers.

So to the point...(finally, I know). A newer guy was in the class today. He easily had 40 lbs on me (mostly in the gut) but he was fairly strong. We sparred pretty early on and damnit if the bastard didn't come out throwing haymakers! I tried to get him to calm down several times. The third time I asked him to calm down he came right out with one hell of a kick that I thought broke my right arm when I blocked it. Luckily I only have a nasty bruise. It pissed me off so I went into a clinch and threw a right hook to his gutt and then a real stiff left knee right into his gut. I thought he was going to puke. I don't like even accidentally hurting people when I spar but three request to tone it down was enough for me.

Has anyone else had this problem? How do you handle an out of control sparring partner if he won't calm down? Do you 'teach him a lesson' or do you just stop sparring with him?

We grappled later. I let him flail for about 30 seconds, waited for him to start sucking wind again, and then made him tap. He still didn't understand that we weren't supposed to kill each other. To top it off before we started sparring he was talking about sparring with others who were out of control!

Sorry - rant off.

Link Posted: 9/10/2005 8:35:50 PM EDT
I think you handled it just fine. So far when I get a partner like that I just practice my defense for awhile until they punch themselves or grapple themselves out and then calmly finish them. So far it has worked alright for me.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 9:02:08 PM EDT
My rule for class is you go just as hard as the other guy wants to. You being more experianced should be able to judge the level of power he is using and match. If he dosn't like it he can back off. This is a learning lesson for him. Most new or newer students have no concept of power or control. This is how people get hurt in sparring.

I think you handled it very well. You did not go overkill on him, but gave him just a taste!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:02:09 AM EDT
UPDATE: So now I am really pissed. I just woke up and my left elbow and sholder hurt like hell. I couldn't go back to sleep and I don't think advil is going to cut it. That idiot reinjured both of themby going too hard. I had just finished rehabing both my elbow and shoulder which took over two months. Now it looks like I'm headed back to the doctor. I initially damanged my ulna nerve in my elbow and I'm guessing that's the problem again.

Too bad this guy isn't in my class every week or I would return the favor Wednesday. He was visiting for another class under the same instructor across town.

Damn it all to hell!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:16:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:17:32 AM EDT
Draw down on him!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:22:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OneMoreMag:
.... I initially damanged my ulna nerve in my elbow and I'm guessing that's the problem again.
........




Sounds like cubital tunnel syndrome...thats what I have... what a pain..

back off and take anti inflamitories. (advil)
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:38:22 AM EDT
I had some navy seal wannabe challenge me on his first class that I was teaching. He went home with a broken wrist.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:55:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawker:
I had some navy seal wannabe challenge me on his first class that I was teaching. He went home with a broken wrist.



Thats pretty damn good. i need to find somewhere around here to get into martial arts.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 9:02:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawker:
I had some navy seal wannabe challenge me on his first class that I was teaching. He went home with a broken wrist.



Never challenge the sensei.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:11:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By clubsoda22:

Originally Posted By Hawker:
I had some navy seal wannabe challenge me on his first class that I was teaching. He went home with a broken wrist.



Never challenge the sensei.



Amen!

Martial arts makes you (if you have an ounce of brains) re-think everyone you might fight. You NEVER know what this other guy might know or be capable of....LET ALONE the guy teaching the class!!

When I started in BJJ one of my first instructors would point out the guys to avoid when open grappling as they "will hurt you" for no good reason. Only one of them left as the owner has banned the other ones and the remaining one has calmed down.

Nice to have a BJJ brown belt give you the 411 on other students...like, "...avoid Dan...he's an idiot and might hurt you....that guy other there Steve is real cool..." etc, etc..

What ever style you choose..DO IT SOON!! Don't be one of those people who continually say they're gonna start training but NEVER DO!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 1:48:39 PM EDT
When you get guys like this in a ju jitsu class they are downright dangerous. I hate assholes who don't let go when you tap. I have definately had guys push joint locks too hard in training. In real life it's okay to penvic thrust and pop that armbar. In training i'll kill you with my good arm if you do.

I remember an instructor telling me a story about a kickboxers challenging their sensei and getting his jaw broken in multiple places. Sucks for them that their sensei was bill wallace.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:02:52 PM EDT
My Grand Master, if you would see him walking down the street, appears to be a normal guy who could be an accountant for all anyone knows. That has made me think of things very differently. You never know what type of abilities another guy might have. He might have a black belt or have a 45 in his belt.

I woke up this morning to my arm killing me. I almost went to the doctor as I thought I had broken my elbow. It still hurts pretty bad but I've been munching on the advil.

It usually takes me experiencing something once to learn or realize what would have been the best way to act. I guarantee the next time I spar with this guy if he goes too far even once I'll implant my right foot thru his liver and I love throwing right kicks. I still love sparring, just not with idiots.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:16:12 PM EDT
Since taking up martial arts two years ago I have been accidently punched in the nuts by a guy trying to shoot on me to take me down, gouged in the eye trying to fight out of a chokehold on my back, and elbowed in the mouth. So far I have come away with a few minor injuries but nothing major. To me, it just a learning experience. Now beings you told him three times to calm down then you were justified in stopping him. I would have rear naked choked him to the point where he was near passing out and then while he was groggy and I was on his back unleashed a few forearms in his face. Once he got the point to cut it out or be hurt I would stop sparring with him and warn others to prevent him from really being hurt.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 3:35:20 PM EDT
I forgot to add this. I couldn't effective put this guy in my guard b/c of his gut. I guess you could call him a 'marital arts commando' b/c he loves to talk shit about he can do but when it comes time he is no different from the x-Navy Seals you meet at every gun show. I could just barely touch my feet behind his back and I'm 5'10'' - not tall but not short. That sucked b/c I love working from my guard. I love how a lot of people don't expect for you to pull them into your guard b/c they think they have the advantage. I was able to pull a head/shoulder triangle earlier in the class which wasn't tight so I transitioned into an armbar. The other guy rolled me about 6-8 times so when I got tired of having my nose ground into the mat I finally arched my back and made him tap. Its hard to make this guy tap b/c he is so dang flexible. This is also the guy who I spar very well with and we have a great mutual respect.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 4:59:04 PM EDT
Good thing about fat or really muscular guys is they aren't as flexible.....a guillotine choke that wouldn't choke a thinner more flexible guy will tap a bulky framed guy....same for triangles....

'Course if they get a chance to just LAY ON YOU, you can be sucking for a breath pretty quick...go back to that La Maz (spelling?) training you wife had for the tiny breaths in and out!!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:06:21 AM EDT
When I was stand-up sparring with the fat guy he loved to kick but everytime he kicked he would drop his hands. I timed it perfectly...he kicked, I threw a left jab to his stomach and then a high right cross angling down (I'm not sure if you would call it a right cross or not) to his face. I swung just short of his nose b/c if I had followed through it would have been nasty. He had no defense. He looked like a deer in the headlights as that punch was coming. The idiot wasn't wearing any headgear so I'm sure it would have been bad.

Anyways - enough bitching from me. I love sparring. It is my favorite part of class and I wish we did it every week. I'm still finding bruises though in places I didn't even think I got hit.

It is strange that as soon as I get hit once or twice I don't really feel the hits any more. The only thing I really notice is when I get light headed or disoriented from a big hit. I don't mind getting hit a few times to set up a big counter. I did this a bunch with this idiot b/c he couldn't throw a very good combination w/o getting winded. This does confuse me though later when I find bruises in places I didn't think I got hit.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:13:18 AM EDT
your sparring partner wouldn't be Squatdog by any chance
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:40:50 AM EDT
If it was squatdog his full power shot was nothing! The personalities were probably similar though which is scary.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:21:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 10:26:10 AM EDT by Lester_Burnham]
Sounds like you handled it fine. It is frustrating though, most of the injuries I've had have been from new guys with no control or a chip on their shoulder, the guys that I train with that are better have a lot of control, and generally won't hurt you. New guys I try to go light with, even if they start going hard or flailing, sometimes they do it out of panic thinking they're going to get hurt. Even if they catch me with a good shot, I try to stay light, second time, well, you want to throw hard, you better be prepared to take it back hard. But being as you warned this guy 3 times, sounds like you did the right thing.

Left jab, left hook to the liver settles them down some (assuming you're right handed). Step in with that jab and wind up for your hook, and nail that liver.

Left jab, left kick to the liver settles them down more, and keeps you more out of their range.

Otherwise, bigger guys like that you can generally beat with hand and foot speed and feints. Keep your feet moving and don't let him get set, kick the hell out of his legs, etc. In and out. Throw what you want to throw and circle out. Don't trade with a bigger guy. Be fast and be first. Get some payback when you get healed up.

Hope you're healing up well.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:01:34 AM EDT
I'm healing pretty well. I find more bruises every hour. The arm is manageable with advil but I don't sleep well.

I ended up trading with the bigger guy. I'm only 175-180 but can trade with most people. I don't feel the shots very much when I get hit but my jaw feels them today. Around my left eye is sore too but the eye isn't black.

What I can't stand is I've only been training for about 6 months, mabye a little less. The difference b/t me and the other guys in the class is I don't flail and I stay calm. I apply myself, study after class, and in general try to learn as much as I can instead of joking around. Most of the time I end up sparring/rolling with the instructor which I enjoy much more. He has fun with it too b/c he lets me think I have a sub and then makes me tap like a little girl before I know what has happened.

I had a guillotine on him Saturday that he didn't expect. It wasn't very deep but I knew this was my ONLY chance so I made it as tight as I could and arched my back. I had him for about .2 seconds (alright, .1 seconds) and then I don't know what the heck he did but I was in an ankle lock. I knew when you are put into an ankle lock you can often do the same to the other guy and his foot was right there but my brain doesn't work fast enough through submissions yet. I'm sure I'll get quicker soon. And man, I've never tapped so quick. That sucker hurt! My other problem with submissions is I am afraid to hurt someone else in class. I know in a real situation I would pop an arm like a toothpick but in class I would hate it if I actually hurt someone. This has let others escape my subs several times b/c I don't want to apply them too hard. I'm sure I'll get better at this soon also.

And before anyone jumps on me I know I don't have a chance tapping the instructor...its just fun to try but I always get put into my place soon thereafter!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 11:25:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 11:30:43 AM EDT by Lester_Burnham]

Originally Posted By OneMoreMag:
I'm healing pretty well. I find more bruises every hour. The arm is manageable with advil but I don't sleep well.

I ended up trading with the bigger guy. I'm only 175-180 but can trade with most people. I don't feel the shots very much when I get hit but my jaw feels them today. Around my left eye is sore too but the eye isn't black.

What I can't stand is I've only been training for about 6 months, mabye a little less. The difference b/t me and the other guys in the class is I don't flail and I stay calm. I apply myself, study after class, and in general try to learn as much as I can instead of joking around. Most of the time I end up sparring/rolling with the instructor which I enjoy much more. He has fun with it too b/c he lets me think I have a sub and then makes me tap like a little girl before I know what has happened.

I had a guillotine on him Saturday that he didn't expect. It wasn't very deep but I knew this was my ONLY chance so I made it as tight as I could and arched my back. I had him for about .2 seconds (alright, .1 seconds) and then I don't know what the heck he did but I was in an ankle lock. I knew when you are put into an ankle lock you can often do the same to the other guy and his foot was right there but my brain doesn't work fast enough through submissions yet. I'm sure I'll get quicker soon. And man, I've never tapped so quick. That sucker hurt! My other problem with submissions is I am afraid to hurt someone else in class. I know in a real situation I would pop an arm like a toothpick but in class I would hate it if I actually hurt someone. This has let others escape my subs several times b/c I don't want to apply them too hard. I'm sure I'll get better at this soon also.

And before anyone jumps on me I know I don't have a chance tapping the instructor...its just fun to try but I always get put into my place soon thereafter!



You'll learn the most rolling with your instructor, it's the best way for him to critique you and offer pointers and correct anything you're doing wrong. I recommend doing it every chance you get.

Ankle locks are tricky, lots of times they don't hurt until you've already had some damage, so it's good you tapped quick. You sound like you're very dedicated, the experience will come in time, you'll start recognizing the setups sooner and easier. Rolling with people better than you is the best way to judge your own progress, few more months you'll be amazed at how much you improve vs. your instructor and other more experienced students.

Is this an MMA gym you train at?

ETA: A double mouth guard like the WIPSS and keeping your chin tucked into your shoulder at all times will keep your jaw from getting as sore too. With your chin tucked, you can deflect a lot of punches aimed at your jaw with your shoulder.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:03:00 PM EDT
I'm working on keeping my chin tucked. I'm pretty good now at keeping my hands up. I'm much better on the ground than standing up but even so I'm not horrible with my stand up. On the ground I can think quicker and I know what I should be doing where as when I'm standing I often think of what I should have done once my chance is over. My punches are pretty stiff I just need to get better and knowing when to throw. I'll be working on that for awhile.

I don't technically train MMA - its called Modern Farang Mu Sul. Its is a mixed marital art that focuses on what works from each traditional marital art. Our standup is a lot like kickboxing and our groundwork like bjj...so technically its not MMA but its pretty close. The main difference is we are taught a lot of respect and a little tradition but not much. We don't do any flashy, fancy moves and even incorporate weapons to some extent. There's video of range time with handguns and AR's on our webpage!
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 12:51:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 12:55:44 PM EDT by Lester_Burnham]

Originally Posted By OneMoreMag:
I'm working on keeping my chin tucked. I'm pretty good now at keeping my hands up. I'm much better on the ground than standing up but even so I'm not horrible with my stand up. On the ground I can think quicker and I know what I should be doing where as when I'm standing I often think of what I should have done once my chance is over. My punches are pretty stiff I just need to get better and knowing when to throw. I'll be working on that for awhile.

I don't technically train MMA - its called Modern Farang Mu Sul. Its is a mixed marital art that focuses on what works from each traditional marital art. Our standup is a lot like kickboxing and our groundwork like bjj...so technically its not MMA but its pretty close. The main difference is we are taught a lot of respect and a little tradition but not much. We don't do any flashy, fancy moves and even incorporate weapons to some extent. There's video of range time with handguns and AR's on our webpage!



You can loosen up your punches by making sure your shoulder, back, and arm muscles aren't tight (which will also help your stamina, you won't tire as easily) and focusing on speed and proper technique. Some guys try to hit "hard" by tightening up their muscles and end up "pushing" their punches. Be fast, proper technique, be loose, and snap each punch in and out.

A good drill for keeping the chin down, take a handwrap, and fold it in half a bunch of times until it's about 4-5" long. Tuck it between your chin and shoulder and shadowbox 2-3 rounds, trying not to drop it. It will frustrate the hell out of you at first.

Sounds like a great style, it's one I haven't heard of but sounds very effective.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:44:03 PM EDT
I dont get people like you. He went hard. You go hard back. You did not stipulate going 80% or whatever before the sparing started from your description. If you get hurt its your fault so dont whine. Some serious MMA practitioners go full contact 100% every time they spar. I believe all the guys Silva trains with do this. I am disappointed when someone wont go 100% on me if we are evenly matched. Sure you get injuries but that is what happens when you want to spar to learn to fight and not to "work out" or get in shape. When you can tell someone WANTS TO HURT YOU which is different than going 100% then I just realise I need to hurt them and make them scared so they back down a little and try to avoid sparring with them after that unless I am 100% and feel like humiliating them.

Lots of big, out of shape guys will use their power to scare you off to give themselves time to breathe or they gas. I hated it when I fought guys in lighter weight classes and was forced to "jab only" or not throw big shots because I cant keep smaller guys off me if they dont fear the big right hand. Its part of my strategy in real life and needs to be my strategy in the ring so I can train effectively when I am tired.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:53:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 3:37:44 AM EDT by OneMoreMag]
DevL - my apologies for not including a transcript of every word that was spoken before this sparring match. Would you like for me to include a professionally recorded transcript of my daily activities in all of my posts? Unlike some I don't have all day to spend an internet message board crapping on people's threads.

If you really must know everything we were supposed to make contact with punches and kicks but not with significant power to injure- in other words enough to tell you were kicked or punched but not enough to hurt the other person. I still ended up with some heavy bruises and a shoulder and elbow that will probably require another visit to the doctor but that is part of sparring. You will be injured when you spar but the intent of sparring is not singularly to cause injury to the other person - it is to learn.

I never said I was a "serious MMA practioner." I don't want to be a "serious MMA practioner" b/c I like my teeth too much. I don't go out looking for fights. A true fighter, and a true man, doesn't look for fights. If you are tough enough to pick fights then more power to you. Most people on this board know not to pick fights and to avoid them when you can b/c you never know when someone will get the drop on you with a knife or gun. I'm not made of kevlar. A true fighter uses their head as much as their fists.

I'm not an expert but I doubt that Tim Silvia trains at 100% every time he spars. If he did it would not be sparring, it would be slaughter. No one has been able recently to defeat him in the ring (look at the belt around his waist) so if this is true how could anyone even spar with him at 100%? Your statement doesn't hold water. If you get hurt how the heck are you going to spar next week?

I don't care how big any guy is who walks into class. He is not going to scare me b/c I know how to handle myself and guess what...its class! We are not out at some pool hall trying to show who is the "Toughman." The out of control guy I was sparring could have thrown anything he wanted at me and I could have handled it. You see, I don't have anything to prove and I won't learn anything by dropping him 10 seconds into our sparring match. I want to learn and everyone else in the class wants to learn also. If I'm rolling with someone who I am better than, like today in class, I will give them some slack and see if they escape a sub. If they do then I see how quick I can get them into another sub - maybe I'll make them tap and maybe I'll let them escape so I can practice being mounted. You don't have to kick someone's ass sparring or rolling to learn from the experience.

There is much more to life, and martial arts, than kicking everyone ass and having a "big right hand."

By the way - I'm sure most everyone else on the board wouldn't like you crapping on their thread.

ETA: After most of the UFC events the Nevada State Athletic Commission won't let the fighters fight for several weeks to seveal months due to the injuries they have sustained. If everyone sparred 100% how often would they last? Even more so - who the heck would want to spar with you? I guess you have tough friends.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 6:55:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 7:21:17 AM EDT by Lester_Burnham]
Good points. And no, Tim Sylvia doesn't spar 100% every night. I know this because I just got back from training with him. I've trained at MFS for 6 years. (I think DevL was referring to Vanderlei Silva, the Chute Boxe guys do have a reputation for hard sparring but I've never seen any of their sparring sessions to say for sure). Everyone has their own ways of doing things though, whatever works for them I guess.

There's nothing wrong with training just for fun, or to learn to defend yourself. Not everyone has the desire to be a competitive fighter, and there's nothing wrong with that. Keep training and having fun.

ETA: Tim Sylvia and Matt Hughes are both pretty avid hunters and shooters, Matt has an AR-10(T) he's a damn good shot with, I've shot with him. Tim's looking to get his first AR.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:04:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 8:06:28 AM EDT by KlubMarcus]
I had sparring partner that was shorter than me and he kicked me in the nuts. Oh, that bastard! Oh yeah, we were wearing protective around the chest/head area to score points with hits at those locations, but he was only able to hit my crotch with ease.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:08:42 AM EDT
Luckily I haven't received a bad shot to the nuts yet. I always wear a cup when sparring. I did block a kick about a week ago that ended up hitting my cup (due to the block). I still have a bruise where the cup was pushed into my right thigh but no nut damage so I'm A-OK with the bruise.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:56:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 8:57:25 AM EDT by Lester_Burnham]
They're running a closeout on the padded steel cups at Ringside for like $12.99, that's the one I use. It's pretty easy to take groin shots in Muay Thai since you're allowed to kick to the legs, guys will kick to your inner thighs and miss, it's a drag.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:58:14 PM EDT
When i was in class one night (Wah Lum Kung Fu) some younger individual who had no technique and no discipline got paired up with me. I was holding the kick pad and he was working on Round Houses. Well at one point his round house got away from him, his shin hit the side of the pad and his foot caught me in the rib cage. Ended up with 2 bruised ribs (again). That damn kid... no discipline.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 7:49:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By B-O-A-T-S:
When i was in class one night (Wah Lum Kung Fu) some younger individual who had no technique and no discipline got paired up with me. I was holding the kick pad and he was working on Round Houses. Well at one point his round house got away from him, his shin hit the side of the pad and his foot caught me in the rib cage. Ended up with 2 bruised ribs (again). That damn kid... no discipline.



Holding pads for new folks can be a scary thing.
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