Posted on Sun, May. 12, 2002  

[size=4]Thousands face cutoff of welfare[/size=4]

MOST REACHING 5-YEAR TIME LIMIT WORKING ADULTS, DEFY STEREOTYPE

By Karen de Sá
Mercury News

[img]www.bayarea.com/images/bayarea/mercurynews/3250/10565502000.jpg[/img]
[b]After surviving seven years in a North Vietnamese labor camp, former South Vietnamese army major Dan Nguyen arrived in the U.S. with liver damage. He is unable to work outside the home, but does babysit his 7-monthold grandson, Kevin.[/b]

Welfare reform in California reaches a watershed this year: Parents who have spent the past five years on aid will be dropped from the system for life.

And as more than 100,000 Californians prepare to cash their last government checks, the state has found that a majority defy the ``welfare mother'' stereotype. Many adults who will be cut off aren't single moms, and most aren't even unemployed. In Silicon Valley, the typical family is a Southeast Asian couple raising children on a patchwork of government subsidies and a meager wage.

Like the Nguyens of San Jose, who survive on a $6.25-an-hour dishwasher's salary and public assistance, these families don't lack a work ethic -- just the ability to speak clear English and the skills to make work pay. Many are refugees resigned to lives of poverty amid great affluence, having fled even worse conditions.

``My age does not allow me to dream anymore,'' said Luom Kiem, a 58-year-old mother of seven who in 1996 left Vietnam, where she sold fruit in a public marketplace. Her husband, Dan Nguyen, arrived in the United States with his liver failing; the former South Vietnamese army major nearly died of starvation in a prison camp after fighting alongside American troops.

Now, Kiem washes tea glasses to support her husband and their twin teenage boys. She says she's too old to learn English and can't boost her earnings because the skills she has mastered -- surviving against great odds -- aren't necessarily marketable.

She's resigned to her daily shift at the Lang Thang Cafe, a dark, noisy bar where young women dressed in see-through blouses and skin-tight shorts delight customers.

The California Department of Social Services has counted more than 114,000 adults whose benefits will be dropped on Dec. 31 as a result of welfare-to-work rules introduced during the Clinton administration.

[url]www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/3251953.htm[/url]

First, I gotta pay that "Lang Thang Cafe" a visit, "a dark, noisy bar where young women dressed in see-through blouses and skin-tight shorts delight customers."

Seriously, is this BS, or what?

The guy has a failing liver, no English skills, two young kids, and the INS gives them Green Cards? That's insane! AFAICT, there are no relatives to support them, however it's likely they were sponsored by relatives and then financially abandoned, which is common practice. Let the taxpayers foot the bill, why not?

Now the kids are teens and at least one has a child. Well, if they are old enough to have kids, they are old enough to work and support their parents.

Here we are with a major state budget shortfall, the legislature has more new taxes up their sleeve than I have seen in my adult life, and I should feel sorry for some guy because his welfare checks are about to end?

Let his f*cking kids foot the bill, 'cuz I ain't paying!

[size=4]People leaving the welfare rolls[/size=4]

COUNTY PROFILES Demographics of the people timing off welfare in four Bay Area counties:

[b]SANTA CLARA COUNTY[/b]

Number of families timing off: 1,200

Two-parent families: 70 percent

Working: 58 percent

Largest ethnic group:

78 percent Vietnamese

[b]SAN FRANCISCO COUNTY[/b]

Number of families timing off: 796

Two-parent families: 30 percent

Working: 66 percent

Largest ethnic group:

34 percent Chinese

[b]ALAMEDA COUNTY[/b]

Number of families timing off: 1,900

Two-parent families: 51 percent

Working: 69 percent

Largest ethnic group: 68 percent Asian-American

[b]SAN MATEO COUNTY[/b]

Number of families timing off: 23

Two-parent families: 17 percent

Working: 78 percent

Largest ethnic group: 26 percent Latino

[url]www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/3251583.htm[/url]

If language is a barrier to gainful employment, how do we justify letting people in who have absolutely no English skills?

In the case of the Vietnamese, it is common knowledge here in the Bay Area that the elderly get in through the INS sponsorship program, and once here, the relative who sponsored them abandons them financially, leaving the state to pay the tab. I have never heard of a case where the Feds took the sponsor to court to recoup those funds. Why should they? The State of California pays the walfare check, so the Feds don't give a crap.

Another Liberal hissy-fit piece. Just like Sara Jessica Parker saying that if Bush got elected, her family would be in dire straights!
Really, where are those sponsors? What are their kids doing? And why aren't they learning English?

C'mon you guys,[rolleyes]think of the asian children,they were not concieved in the US as leverage/$$$$ for their parents.

Interesting topic and thanks !

Well, in the case of the former South Vietnamese major, I can see why he and his family were allowed to come into this country in first place. However, there's no excuse for not learning English and some useful skill or other.
The big change seemed to have been back in, I think, 1968, IIRC, when LBJ and his immigration reform act stopped all but stopped the influx of European immigrants. Since then, the majority of people coming into the US seem to be third world scum with no useful skills, no desire to adapt, and ridden with all kinds of interesting diseases.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a White person from Europe to come here? Unless they are some famous artist (Schwarzenegger, Emmerich -director of The Patriot and Independence Day) or sports guy (Katarina Witt), or somebody investing huge amounts of money here ($500,000 was the number, I think), or some acknowledged scientist, average, working class people from Europe barely have any chance to get a permanent residence permission, unless they win the "Green Card Lottery" or marry an American citizen. If you are, on the other hand, some south american, african (except for White people fleeing southern Africa) or asian ... well, you know it...import them wholesale, cheap labor and a big lever to frighten the middle class with. Plus none of them would ever vote Republican or Libertarian.

Illegal immigration is the first problem that should be dealt with.

This speaks volumes as to why Kali is going downt the tubes - they are being overrun by foreigners.
Here in the east it seems most of our foreignors are already US citizens before they even get here - Purto Rician (sp).

Truer words were never spoken.

Agreed.

People coming here and going right on welfare (even remaining there indefinitely) is an insane way to run a country. Tax those that work so others can sit around all day. Super public policy.

As to the South Vietnamese Major... he should be given a pension from the Defense Department or go on Social Security Disability. He did something.

Here's another good one:
[url=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020513/ts_nm/people_usa_thailand_boy_dc_1&e=7&ncid=578]HIV-infected Thai boy, smuggled into US as a "prop", given semi-permanent visa by DOJ[/url]

Gonna be interesting to watch Kali shred itself as the people all drop off the government tit.

I wonder if liberals will still cry the blues for these poor foreigners in 3 years.

Our law firm does a lot of doctors from overseas visas so they can work in the underserved rural hospitals...this year there won't be any cause the gov dropped the program that waived the 'three year in the home country requirement' after 9-11 as an anti-terror measure.
Meanwhile the mex illegals are starting to line up at the local pro-bono clinic for their chance to get legalized in the latest program. Get this...they can use these fake pieces of paper the mexican embassy writes out with any old name and age on them as their ID for the INS paperwork.
Good thing those doctors are going home, eh? Oh, who is going to treat the mexicans...for free?

Funny you should mention that because I heard on the news tonight they have a plan. I didn't get the details, but it appears they (cities or the state, I don't know which) plan to offer incentives for poor immigrants to leave the state. Free moving costs, job assistance in their new state of residence, etc.

I am trying to find a link on the net, and when I do I will post it.

It's really unfair that CA should bear the burden of immigration, both illegal and legal. We take much more than our share and it's time we spread the wealth as it were.

You probably know this already, but the deal in Silicon Valley is a little different. San Jose has a huge Vietnamese community, many of who never learned English because they had no need to. They shop in Vietnamese stores, eat at the local Vietnamese eatery, etc. You know the deal. Now, thousands of these people, men and women, were working as electronic assemblers for Cisco, Solectron, National Semiconductor, etc. These are shit jobs, paying $9-$12/hour, but with the entire family working plus some welfare money, they could survive in San Jose. When the high tech market crapped out in 2000, all of a sudden you have literally thousands of South East Asians out of work. A lot of them went on welfare, but I believe a very large number of them have always been on welfare, starting the minute they got here. Their relatives sponsored them but are not taking financial responsibility which is the law. And where is the INS to enforce these laws? No where to be found!

Anyway, most if these folks are in San Jose and they are there for those shit jobs that no longer exist. Personally, it's their own damn fault. They have have every opportunity to learn English and acclimate to American culture. For whatever reason they chose not to and now they must pay the price.

The good news is we have a plan to ship some out of state. he he Now people really will have a reason to hate California.

[/quote]Quoted:
It's really unfair that CA should bear the burden of immigration, both illegal and legal. We take much more than our share and it's time we spread the wealth as it were.[/quote]

First of all matt no flame intended towards you but what constitutes a "fair share?" If it wasn't for the idiots in your state that continue to support these people so they can get their votes (yes I mean f*@kin democrats) then most of them would not be here anyway.
Please don't export Calis problems elsewhere.

edited to add we have more than our fair share here in Florida.

By fair share, I think maybe immigrants should be relocated among the 50 states. CA's problem is the result of federal law, not state law. In the late 80's, the CA governor sued the feds for additional money to help cover the costs of illegals. The feds told him to go to hell, and CA residents had to foot the bill. This is obviously unfair as immigration, legal or otherwise, is a federal issue. When the feds don't do their job, only certain states pay (like yours).

Hell, we probably get 90% of the Asians and 60% of the Mexicans. That's hardly fair. And it's not all the result of liberal policies. It's partly due to our location and the fact these people think there are jobs here, even though the jobs they have historically taken are now in China.

while I certainly understand how geography has an effect on the situation, I still personally feel that a large part of the democratic strategy is to allow as many foreigners into the country as they can in order to get votes.

This practice is in no way limited to Cali. I just hate to see them spread out over the whole country diminishing what conservative voter base is left.

The red/ blue Bush/ Gore map that was posted here previously was very similar to the location of most of the immigrants here.

No matter what, you're absolutely correct, our immigration policy is insane!

Never. They couldn't be that unscrupulous. [rolleyes]



Really! I'm sure it's a coincidence.

We will gladly trade you ALL of our Haitians for an equal number of Chinese, Koreans or other Asians.

We will also trade a few Cubans (Mariel) for an equal number of your Mexicans (at least their food is better). The other Cubans tend to be pretty conservative and hard working.

We are also starting to get a surplus of Jamaicans, what have you got to offer?

You can have our homos, starting with these two

[img]pweb.netcom.com/~mattja/pics/dd_cinequest2.jpg[/img]

If that plan becomes general knowledge, let alone enacted, it will be interesting to see what the liberals have to say.  They screamed 30 years ago when New York tried it.  The governor also wanted to require one had to be working (gasp) a year in the state before being eligible for welfare.  What a concept, prevent people from coming in just for the benefits.  Supreme Court and the whole liberal establishment went crazy.  

I'm sure it will somehow be "different" now that it is in the backyards of some of the biggest "professional mouths" in the country.

Liberal hypocrites!  Yeah, I know, a redundancy.

You play the hand you are dealt, even if a lousy one.  Go forward and make the best of it, adapt and learn as you suggested.  That's the way of life, though the dimmies are trying forcibly to change that.  

I knew a couple of older men, WWII vets from "the other side".   One had his legs blown off by a mine, the other was wounded though not disabling, and spent enough time being herded around by our glorious Russian allies in their prison camps.  They came here, learned English, got jobs, though menial, went to school, got engineering degrees and went to work productively.  No whining.  Oh, but I forgot, they were no good, being white and the no-good enemy Hungarians.

Some people make no demands, just fit in and work.  Others want to whine and collect.

As far as the reference to LBJ, you are quite correct.  Indeed, the announced purpose was to change the ethnic balance: deliberate social engineering.

When CA tries to ship it's problem East is when we need to build a wall!  Their policies allow all kings of dumb pro immigrant crap (and try to disarm everybody else) so let them suffer!

The attempts to equate opposition to ILLEGAL immigrants is PC'd into opposing ALL immigration.  There DOES need to be a moratorium on most, if not all, immigration until the flow of illegals can be stopped and the INS cleaned up.  As far as welfare for immigrants, it should consist solely of return passage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I oppose ALL welfare for non-citizens (and even for most citizens).

CA is a clear example of what happens when the inmates run the asylum.  Either we learn from that disaster or the rest of the country will be a shithole as well in a decade.

First, you have to ask yourself the purpose of immigration to any country.  In most cases, it is to populate an empty area; others are for specific types of workers. We got ourselves into trouble on a policy basis in the 19th century when, to be honest about it, the robber barons simply wanted a supply of cheap labor.  Since most of these jobs are done overseas now, we don't really need the labor.  Sure, contrary to our needs, but that's the way it is.

Go anywhere in the country you like that is livable. By that I mean being able to earn a living and conduct your life, not living like a hermit.  It is a swarming anthill; resources are stretched to the breaking point; one can't get around.  Frankly, I think we have crossed the line into overpopulation.  So we don't need an endless supply of more.  Those who would say we are all descended from immigrants are correct, but that does not mean it must continue ad infinitum.  How much water can you pour into a 1 gallon bucket.  Some of those who benefit from the swarming influx would point to population density, and do a very superficial calculation of persons per sq. mile.  Guess what, you can't include the deserts!  And, leave the farmland out if you want to feed everyone, including ther rest of the world.  (ANother subject, there.) The same liberal line complains about suburban sprawl: exactly what do you want? So, those calculations are suspect, at best. If birth rate even covers the death rate, we have enough.  Sure, some people can come to WORK.  Even stay for a while, but it should be a useful skill/profession/talent.  Staying, or going home after the employment should be a careful decision.  Other countries do it this way.  We are no longer a unpopulated wilderness, and cannot afford to be an unlimited receptacle forever.  

Are you kidding? Between South Beach and Key West we are lousy with them. I was hoping you might take a few of ours.

Careful, that sounds racist to some.



To have it both ways! Didn't you know that? Look at California and the fact that they stopped building power plants for a decade while how many additional people settled there?

The same liberal line complains about clean air, clean water, imported oil, trade deficit, etc. Will those things get better or worse with more people?

Presisely what they want is to turn all residential areas into very high density jut like NYC!  These nut jobs think EVERYBODY (except them, of course) should live in high rise compartment buildings.  Every time I hear this I just fume!  Population control or even reduction is the answer.  AIDS is good but works way too slow.

Actually, it didn't; the immigration "reform" increased the number of allowed immigrants, and assigned each country a quota based upon its population.  Prior to that, the national quotas were assigned so that virtually all immigration came from Western Europe.  Southern Europe, Eastern Europe and the rest of the world was much more limited.  Today, each European nation has its own quota according to its population and there are plenty of European immigrants who continue to come in.


If you say so.



Average working class people from Europe have no greater or lesser chance to immigrate than average working class people from anywhere else.  There is no policy or law that singles out Europe for reduced immigration.