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Posted: 3/11/2005 7:02:56 AM EST
Okay what's the real scoop? According the JFK the movie, the Mannlicher Carcano rifle is the worst rifle ever made. Yet I have also heard that it was a good rifle. So which is it?

80yards,moving target, 3 shots under 8(?)seconds. Could you have made those shots?

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:15:12 AM EST

I owned one when i was a kid. My mom bought it for me. $6.99, ammo was $.50 for 100 rounds.
there is no way he shot Kennedy from that distance, even with a offset scope. because of the straight bolt. It would put out a ball of flame and powder that would blind you. The slug was as long as the case. i hunted rabbits with it. Also a few alligators on a cattle ranch in FT. Perice fla.
ammo2030 call sign lease breaker
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:23:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 7:23:25 AM EST by ironoxbows]

Originally Posted By ammo1015:

I owned one when i was a kid. My mom bought it for me. $6.99, ammo was $.50 for 100 rounds.
there is no way he shot Kennedy from that distance, even with a offset scope. because of the straight bolt. It would put out a ball of flame and powder that would blind you. The slug was as long as the case. i hunted rabbits with it. Also a few alligators on a cattle ranch in FT. Perice fla.
ammo2030 call sign lease breaker



I'm inclined to agree with you friend, however, many here don't, I've fought this battle before. Better get your asbestos underwear on, flames will be inbound directly.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:26:56 AM EST


She's a Beaut!
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:29:12 AM EST
Not a crappy rifle, but certainly not an Enfield, either. I think the term good enough applies here.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:38:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By osprey21:
www.jfkmurdersolved.com/images/carcano.jpg

She's a Beaut!



That is a gem compared to my 91/24 Cavalry Carbine. I got it free with a purchase of a $20 box of 6.5 Carcano cartridges.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:38:47 AM EST
I saw a special where they picked three random marines (all qualed on the rifle like oswald)

and asked them to make the same shots. They all did it.

I guess perserverance and tenacity can get alot done that normally wouldn't.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:49:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By ammo1015:

I owned one when i was a kid. My mom bought it for me. $6.99, ammo was $.50 for 100 rounds.
there is no way he shot Kennedy from that distance, even with a offset scope. because of the straight bolt. It would put out a ball of flame and powder that would blind you. The slug was as long as the case. i hunted rabbits with it. Also a few alligators on a cattle ranch in FT. Perice fla.
ammo2030 call sign lease breaker



Straight bolt?

Carcano long rifles have a straight-handled bolt. The 91/38 carbines, like Oswald's (see the picture?)
have turned-down bolts.

This is already a typical JFK Assassination internet discussion. Misinformed opinions.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:52:54 AM EST
I'm of the opinion that someone who would take up the task of shooting the President of the United States wouldn't choose a POS for a rifle when so many other better choices were readily available.

Perhaps if Oswald was attempting to shoot his neighbor's dog, maybe. But the president?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:57:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 7:58:23 AM EST by Coolio]

Originally Posted By ammo1015:

I owned one when i was a kid. My mom bought it for me. $6.99, ammo was $.50 for 100 rounds.
there is no way he shot Kennedy from that distance, even with a offset scope. because of the straight bolt. It would put out a ball of flame and powder that would blind you. The slug was as long as the case. i hunted rabbits with it. Also a few alligators on a cattle ranch in FT. Perice fla.
ammo2030 call sign lease breaker



I guess I'm pretty gullable. I've always bought the standard story. My friend, Albert, however, who knows far more about rifles (especially WWII battle rifles) agrees that there is NO WAY Oswald made those shots with that rifle.
I would never second guess my friend Albert on this subject.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 7:57:21 AM EST
It was a set up.
Oswald didn't do the shooting at all according to the show on History channel.
They say shot that nailed kennedy came from a sewer drain hole in the curb.
One of those CSI reconstructive analysis with high tech computers and lasers and stuff.
The normal "who had a motive" won't work with JFK as the list is just too long.
Conspiracy theories are pretty cool, but if it were me I would have chosen a beeter rifle too.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:00:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
Conspiracy theories are pretty cool, but if it were me I would have chosen a beeter rifle too.


I know if I were undertaking the shooting of the president from a distance, I'd choose a beater rifle, too.

Screw that Remington 700 PSS shit.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:02:40 AM EST
I was in Dealey Plaza last week. The shot Oswald took was makeable by anyone with even a modicum of marksmanship training. After all, he missed with one shot, got a marginal hit with the second, and a solid hit on only one of the three. Not exactly sniper-level skills required.

Carcano's were okay. Oswald had one because they were CHEAP. You have to remember, he had almost no money for most of his life.

BTW, Oswald used that same Carcano to take a shot at General Edwin A. Walker in Dallas over seven months before he used it to shoot Kennedy. He barely missed that time. It just goes to show that he was a bit of an unbalanced nutcase.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:04:14 AM EST
God, I get tired of this.

The shot was not that tough. The target was moving slowly direcly away from the elevated shooter. Can anyone say it is impossible to make that shot with a Carcano? Can anyone conlcusively say that each and every Carcano ever made is incapable of making such a shot?

If not, then you are speaking out of your ass.

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:04:48 AM EST
The longest shot was what? 88 yards away? Against a half-silhouette(sp) with almost no left-right drift. He fired three times and made two hits. Not exactly a performance that requires a master-class shooter, nor does it require a Remington 700 PSS.

Why did he use a beater rifle? Maybe because he was a life-long loser with delusions of grandieur and that's what he could afford. It wasn't like Kennedy was the first public official he took pot-shots at with that rifle.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:05:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 8:07:33 AM EST by KangarooAR-15A3]

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By KangarooAR-15A3:
Conspiracy theories are pretty cool, but if it were me I would have chosen a beeter rifle too.


I know if I were undertaking the shooting of the president from a distance, I'd choose a beater rifle, too.

Screw that Remington 700 PSS shit.



UH OH TYPO....
Was supposed to say Better, but a beater does make sense now, after all you wanna ditch the thing, not put it back in your gun closet. (they got them ballistical tests an' sheet nowadays) And if you're only gonna use it once why spend the dough?

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:09:30 AM EST
Fellas, I'm not saying unequivocably that there's no way Oswald fired all the shots and that they all came from the Carcano, I'm just stating that it seems odd for somebody to go through the trouble of shooting a US President (from a distance) with a cheap, lackluster rifle.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it does to some of you, but it doesn't to me.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:12:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Fellas, I'm not saying unequivocably that there's no way Oswald fired all the shots and that they all came from the Carcano, I'm just stating that it seems odd for somebody to go through the trouble of shooting a US President (from a distance) with a cheap, lackluster rifle.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it does to some of you, but it doesn't to me.



Nothing Oswald did his whole life made a lot of sense. He was a nut case. He was also a flat broke nut case.

Pop quiz: What do all the people who have shot at U.S. Presidents have in common? Answer: They were all nut cases.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:16:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Fellas, I'm not saying unequivocably that there's no way Oswald fired all the shots and that they all came from the Carcano, I'm just stating that it seems odd for somebody to go through the trouble of shooting a US President (from a distance) with a cheap, lackluster rifle.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it does to some of you, but it doesn't to me.



What was the gun used in the Reagan-Brady shooting? Was it high quality? One thing you'll notice throughout history is assassinations are rarely performed by vast conspiracies using state of the art technology. Works for Hollywood, doesn't work in real life. Too many people involved means leaks, leaks mean tips, tips mean prevention and arrests.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:19:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By dport:
What was the gun used in the Reagan-Brady shooting? Was it high quality? One thing you'll notice throughout history is assassinations are rarely performed by vast conspiracies using state of the art technology. Works for Hollywood, doesn't work in real life. Too many people involved means leaks, leaks mean tips, tips mean prevention and arrests.


Actually, the Reagan assassination attempt doesn't fit your premise. Hinckley used precisely the type of weapon close-up assassins typically choose (if the books I've read are accurate): A .22 caliber pistol.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:23:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
I was in Dealey Plaza last week. The shot Oswald took was makeable by anyone with even a modicum of marksmanship training. After all, he missed with one shot, got a marginal hit with the second, and a solid hit on only one of the three. Not exactly sniper-level skills required.

Carcano's were okay. Oswald had one because they were CHEAP. You have to remember, he had almost no money for most of his life.

BTW, Oswald used that same Carcano to take a shot at General Edwin A. Walker in Dallas over seven months before he used it to shoot Kennedy. He barely missed that time. It just goes to show that he was a bit of an unbalanced nutcase.



I have visited Dealy Plaza a couple of times also. I was surprised the first time at what a small area the whole thing is. After being there, I think that the shot wasn't that hard after all. Not easy, but not impossible.

patsue
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:24:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By dport:
What was the gun used in the Reagan-Brady shooting? Was it high quality? One thing you'll notice throughout history is assassinations are rarely performed by vast conspiracies using state of the art technology. Works for Hollywood, doesn't work in real life. Too many people involved means leaks, leaks mean tips, tips mean prevention and arrests.


Actually, the Reagan assassination attempt doesn't fit your premise. Hinckley used precisely the type of weapon close-up assassins typically choose (if the books I've read are accurate): A .22 caliber pistol.



Actually it was a cheap ole 22 revolver.

patsue
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:25:39 AM EST
It was an RG-14 .22lr revolver. Why oh why would he use such an inexpensive and ineffective caliber? If you're going to be close to the target and easily identified, why not use a .45 to make sure you kill your target?

My point is valid and stands. Assassins are not gunaholics. They are assassins. They buy the cheapest tool they can get to get the job done, in their mind. Why spend a bunch of money for a gun that you're likely going to drop anyway? And why buy something that is specialized an uncommon as it can be traced more easily?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:25:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By patsue:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By dport:
What was the gun used in the Reagan-Brady shooting? Was it high quality? One thing you'll notice throughout history is assassinations are rarely performed by vast conspiracies using state of the art technology. Works for Hollywood, doesn't work in real life. Too many people involved means leaks, leaks mean tips, tips mean prevention and arrests.


Actually, the Reagan assassination attempt doesn't fit your premise. Hinckley used precisely the type of weapon close-up assassins typically choose (if the books I've read are accurate): A .22 caliber pistol.


Actually it was a cheap ole 22 revolver.


Oh, my bad.

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:29:27 AM EST
As I recall, almost every assisination of high public figures with a firearm was a nutcase with some sore of POS firearm.

I am thinking Lincoln, Garfield, Archduke Ferdinand, both Kennedys, Wallace , Lennon....etc...pretty much all nutcases with junk guns.

I think Ayoob duplicated the JFK thing with several different shooters a few years back. It was in one of the gun mags.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:30:20 AM EST
Didn't Carlos Hathcock weigh in and call that shot impossible?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:34:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Fellas, I'm not saying unequivocably that there's no way Oswald fired all the shots and that they all came from the Carcano, I'm just stating that it seems odd for somebody to go through the trouble of shooting a US President (from a distance) with a cheap, lackluster rifle.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it does to some of you, but it doesn't to me.



Oswald wasn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer either.

-- Blamm(OtherwiseOpinionlessOnThisMatter)O
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:36:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Didn't Carlos Hathcock weigh in and call that shot impossible?


No.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 8:42:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By kyreb:
As I recall, almost every assisination of high public figures with a firearm was a nutcase with some sore of POS firearm.

I am thinking Lincoln, Garfield, Archduke Ferdinand, both Kennedys, Wallace , Lennon....etc...pretty much all nutcases with junk guns.

I think Ayoob duplicated the JFK thing with several different shooters a few years back. It was in one of the gun mags.



FN 1910... Most definately NOT a junk gun.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 9:04:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Didn't Carlos Hathcock weigh in and call that shot impossible?



You telling me that after making shots on people at over a mile away, Hathcock would say that a shot made from less than 77 yards away with a scope was impossible?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 9:05:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By ironoxbows:

Originally Posted By ammo1015:

I owned one when i was a kid. My mom bought it for me. $6.99, ammo was $.50 for 100 rounds.
there is no way he shot Kennedy from that distance, even with a offset scope. because of the straight bolt. It would put out a ball of flame and powder that would blind you. The slug was as long as the case. i hunted rabbits with it. Also a few alligators on a cattle ranch in FT. Perice fla.
ammo2030 call sign lease breaker



I'm inclined to agree with you friend, however, many here don't, I've fought this battle before. Better get your asbestos underwear on, flames will be inbound directly.



What's so difficult about making three shots, all of them from less than 80 yards away from the target with a scoped rifle?
Oswald even missed one of his three shots.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 9:10:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 9:11:31 AM EST by guardian855]

Originally Posted By blackrifle51:
Okay what's the real scoop? According the JFK the movie, the Mannlicher Carcano rifle is the worst rifle ever made. Yet I have also heard that it was a good rifle. So which is it?

80yards,moving target, 3 shots under 8(?)seconds. Could you have made those shots?




Ronald Simmons of the Army Ballistics Labortary testified for the Warren Commission that the Oswald's rifle was and I quote "quite accurate" and the dispersion was about .29 mils, which I believe is the equivalent of 2MOA.

While it might not have been the most accurate rifle out there, a 2 MOA rifle being fired from less than 80 yards is more than accurate enough to do what Oswald did.

The Warren Commission also had three shooters duplicate the distance, angles and timing of the shots, and all three shooters had no problems in scoring at least two out of three hits on the target.

Here is a bunch of evidence about Oswald's Rifle
JFK Assassination Firearms Factoid
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 9:14:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Fellas, I'm not saying unequivocably that there's no way Oswald fired all the shots and that they all came from the Carcano, I'm just stating that it seems odd for somebody to go through the trouble of shooting a US President (from a distance) with a cheap, lackluster rifle.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it does to some of you, but it doesn't to me.



What all was on hand to be bought in 1963? Not a whole hell of a lot. Most of the stuff on the market in pawnshops was WW2 bringbacks. The war had only been over for 18 yrs.
My grandfather bought rifles by walking in a shop and plunking down cash and walking out. You didn't have parework to fill out. That didn't come till 1968.

Oswald probably did it with the Carcano. Hell, it was a chip shot.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 9:15:44 AM EST
Oswald bought his Carcano from a mail order catalog.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 9:16:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 9:18:34 AM EST by guardian855]

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Fellas, I'm not saying unequivocably that there's no way Oswald fired all the shots and that they all came from the Carcano, I'm just stating that it seems odd for somebody to go through the trouble of shooting a US President (from a distance) with a cheap, lackluster rifle.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it does to some of you, but it doesn't to me.



The problem with that is, Oswald was a pretty unbalanced guy. He simply didn't make sense. Who knows why he choose that rifle? Maybe it was all he could afford, maybe he really liked it for some reason, his motives followed him to his grave.

There is fairly solid evidence (as in he would probably have been convicted with the evidence if it made it to court) that he did use that same rifle to shoot at a General seven months earlier. Since he did use the rifle to shoot at another government official, so it's not much of a stretch that he would have used the same rifle on Kennedy.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:09:42 AM EST
Yes the Carcano is a piece. The discovery channel had a very good program covering all of the theories, inconsistancies and myths concerning the JFK assassination. It was sort of like "Myth Busters". Walkind times and distances from the upper floor of the book depository to the cafe and to the theater several blocks away etc.

The Carcano used in one of the demonstrations "Failed To Fire" around 15% of the time. They said that this was very common to that rifle. The sharp shooter in the demo was able to make several head shots despite all of the FTFs. They proved, on camera, that it was physically possible to hit a target at that angle and distance. The only problem I had with the demonstration was that Oswald was not a Sniper quality shooter like the guy in the demo. He has mediocre at best. Shooting at a moving target takes some expertise. You shoot at where you expect the target will be based on its relative speed, distance and shot angle, not where it actually appears in the scope. And I'm pretty sure that Oswald did not have a slanted shooting range to adjust the zero for elevation, 6 floors up toward ground level? His scope had to be zeroed to "best guess".
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:13:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ghostchild:
I saw a special where they picked three random marines (all qualed on the rifle like oswald)

and asked them to make the same shots. They all did it.

I guess perserverance and tenacity can get alot done that normally wouldn't.

"Shows you what a Marine with a Rifle can do!"
- Gunny Hartman / Ermey

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:13:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sodie:
Yes the Carcano is a piece. The discovery channel had a very good program covering all of the theories, inconsistancies and myths concerning the JFK assassination. It was sort of like "Myth Busters". Walkind times and distances from the upper floor of the book depository to the cafe and to the theater several blocks away etc.

The Carcano used in one of the demonstrations "Failed To Fire" around 15% of the time. They said that this was very common to that rifle. The sharp shooter in the demo was able to make several head shots despite all of the FTFs. They proved, on camera, that it was physically possible to hit a target at that angle and distance. The only problem I had with the demonstration was that Oswald was not a Sniper quality shooter like the guy in the demo. He has mediocre at best. Shooting at a moving target takes some expertise. You shoot at where you expect the target will be based on its relative speed, distance and shot angle, not where it actually appears in the scope. And I'm pretty sure that Oswald did not have a slanted shooting range to adjust the zero for elevation, 6 floors up toward ground level? His scope had to be zeroed to "best guess".



For goodness sake, Oswald was less than 80 yards away shooting at a target moving very slowly straight away. He still missed once, barely hit once, and got lucky with his last shot. Not exactly sniper skills needed to do that.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:14:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Coolio:

Originally Posted By ammo1015:

I owned one when i was a kid. My mom bought it for me. $6.99, ammo was $.50 for 100 rounds.
there is no way he shot Kennedy from that distance, even with a offset scope. because of the straight bolt. It would put out a ball of flame and powder that would blind you. The slug was as long as the case. i hunted rabbits with it. Also a few alligators on a cattle ranch in FT. Perice fla.
ammo2030 call sign lease breaker



I guess I'm pretty gullable. I've always bought the standard story. My friend, Albert, however, who knows far more about rifles (especially WWII battle rifles) agrees that there is NO WAY Oswald made those shots with that rifle.
I would never second guess my friend Albert on this subject.

Which is why this kind of nonsense is undying.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:16:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Fellas, I'm not saying unequivocably that there's no way Oswald fired all the shots and that they all came from the Carcano, I'm just stating that it seems odd for somebody to go through the trouble of shooting a US President (from a distance) with a cheap, lackluster rifle.

It just doesn't make sense. Maybe it does to some of you, but it doesn't to me.

What part of 'deranged nutcase on a Schlitz budget' don't you get?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:25:35 AM EST
Kennedy's dead?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:28:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By Ghostchild:
I saw a special where they picked three random marines (all qualed on the rifle like oswald)

and asked them to make the same shots. They all did it.

I guess perserverance and tenacity can get alot done that normally wouldn't.

"Shows you what a Marine with a Rifle can do!"
- Gunny Hartman / Ermey




God has a hard on for marines.
Because we kill everything we see.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:32:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By dport:
What was the gun used in the Reagan-Brady shooting? Was it high quality? One thing you'll notice throughout history is assassinations are rarely performed by vast conspiracies using state of the art technology. Works for Hollywood, doesn't work in real life. Too many people involved means leaks, leaks mean tips, tips mean prevention and arrests.


Actually, the Reagan assassination attempt doesn't fit your premise. Hinckley used precisely the type of weapon close-up assassins typically choose (if the books I've read are accurate): A .22 caliber pistol.

LOL. Even better.

Hinckley reportedly used a Rohm R6-14 revolver.

A cheese-dick POS similar to this:




The only thing "assassin" about it is the supposed worth of a .22lr for its recounted ready deformation and uselessness for ballistic tracing. Which is nonsense, anyway, as any "assassin" worth their salt would be using a weapon that's untraceable to them, and dispose of it when they are done.

And the only other thing giving credance to .22lr being 'the #1 murder caliber' has fuck-all to do with its suitability for the task and EVERYTHING to do with the guns firing it being the CHEAPEST to obtain.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:34:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By patsue:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By dport:
What was the gun used in the Reagan-Brady shooting? Was it high quality? One thing you'll notice throughout history is assassinations are rarely performed by vast conspiracies using state of the art technology. Works for Hollywood, doesn't work in real life. Too many people involved means leaks, leaks mean tips, tips mean prevention and arrests.


Actually, the Reagan assassination attempt doesn't fit your premise. Hinckley used precisely the type of weapon close-up assassins typically choose (if the books I've read are accurate): A .22 caliber pistol.


Actually it was a cheap ole 22 revolver.


Oh, my bad.


Why would you be rolling your fucking eyes at a straightforward statement of fact?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:36:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/11/2005 10:41:59 AM EST by WildBoar]

Originally Posted By blackrifle51:
Okay what's the real scoop? According the JFK the movie, the Mannlicher Carcano rifle is the worst rifle ever made. Yet I have also heard that it was a good rifle. So which is it?

80yards,moving target, 3 shots under 8(?)seconds. Could you have made those shots?




Yes I believe I could have made those shots with just about any crappy bolt gun. It was a crappy rifle but could have been worse.

Oswald did it. People just want a conspiracy so they ignore the obvious.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:42:02 AM EST
Blammo said that Oswald wasn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. That may be true. But I thought I read somewhere that while he was in the Marine Corps, he was sent to the Military language school in California, and became fluent in Russian. I can't remember where I read that. Does anyone recall hearing about this?
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:45:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ghostchild:
I saw a special where they picked three random marines (all qualed on the rifle like oswald)

and asked them to make the same shots. They all did it.

I guess perserverance and tenacity can get alot done that normally wouldn't.



Yep, It's been duplicated and verified several times by several different experts IIRC.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:45:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Coolio:

Originally Posted By ammo1015:

I owned one when i was a kid. My mom bought it for me. $6.99, ammo was $.50 for 100 rounds.
there is no way he shot Kennedy from that distance, even with a offset scope. because of the straight bolt. It would put out a ball of flame and powder that would blind you. The slug was as long as the case. i hunted rabbits with it. Also a few alligators on a cattle ranch in FT. Perice fla.
ammo2030 call sign lease breaker



I guess I'm pretty gullable. I've always bought the standard story. My friend, Albert, however, who knows far more about rifles (especially WWII battle rifles) agrees that there is NO WAY Oswald made those shots with that rifle.
I would never second guess my friend Albert on this subject.



BULL CRAP

Your friend and the above poster are just making it up as they go and are full of horsesh*t.

It has been shown over and over that those shots were no particular difficult task with that rifle. Even the same rifle has been used in tests that showed it could easily be done.

Testing has been extensively done and time after time the test have show that rifle with even a novice shooter could have done it easily.

The range was less than 100 yards. THEY WERE EASY CLOSE RANGE SHOTS.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:48:54 AM EST
I don't know anything about either the rifle or the JFK assasination. I just know one thing, that's a big fucken bullet!

Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:50:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By andrew:
Blammo said that Oswald wasn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer. That may be true. But I thought I read somewhere that while he was in the Marine Corps, he was sent to the Military language school in California, and became fluent in Russian. I can't remember where I read that. Does anyone recall hearing about this?



Oswald never attended the language school in Monterrey. He taught himself Russian prior to moving to Russia, and did a piss-poor job of it. He was virtually unable to communicate in Russian when he first arrived.

While in the Marines, he was court-martialed not once, but twice. The first time was for shooting himself with a derringer. More evidence of he none-too-sharp status.
Link Posted: 3/11/2005 10:56:13 AM EST

For goodness sake, Oswald was less than 80 yards away shooting at a target moving very slowly straight away. He still missed once, barely hit once, and got lucky with his last shot. Not exactly sniper skills needed to do that.


You have never shot at a moving target have you? If it is such an easy shot, why do these tests always use Snipers? Why not grab some guy of the same build and Marine Corps qualifications? Oswald barely qualified in his marksmanship test and was close to being sent back to boot camp.

I have shot at movings targets and you do not shoot at what you see in the scope. You aim for an imaginary point in space that you believe the target will be at when you fire not just infront of the target but you also have to factor in bullet drop and or rise. You also have to keep a steady momentum on the rifle even past the shot.

The 6.5mm round that the Carcano shoots is not a speedy bullet, approx 2070 fps. It is concievable that Oswald could have recieved some training in aim tactics or maybe at least some skeet practice, but that is never discussed.

The school tower shooter in Texas, Charles Whitman, was a trained sniper. Specifically, a sniper with a specialty in shooting at moving targets and he proved his skills with deadly results.

Chillingly, the records of his scores on shooting tests show that he scored 215 out of 250 possible points, that he excelled at rapid fire from long distances, and that he seemed to be more accurate when shooting at moving targets.

www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/whitman/index_1.html
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