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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 12/25/2005 11:45:33 AM EDT

I am flying back to FL (otherwise I would just stick them in the car) and figure just to check the rifles (3).

I know, even though I have my FL CCW, that I cannot declare the handguns without a NY permit due to some bureaucratic retardation.

What are my options to minimize cost?


thanks,
dan
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:52:06 AM EDT
I would rent a car and cancel your plane ticket.

The handguns are a problem. UPS won't take them, you can't send them USPS, and Fed Ex will only allow you to ship to an FFL (even though Federal Law will allow you to ship them to yourself). You'll also need to check with your airline, but I don't think that they'll let you check 3 guns. Most will only allow you to check 1 and small amount of ammo in the factory packaging.

How did you get into this predicament?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:53:45 AM EDT
I don't understand--if you can't legally declare the handguns due to a lack of a permit, how is it that you currently posess these in NY?

Not saying I don't think you have every right to do so, but I question the legality of it according to NY "law".
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 11:55:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By libertyforall:
I don't understand--if you can't legally declare the handguns due to a lack of a permit, how is it that you currently posess these in NY?

Not saying I don't think you have every right to do so, but I question the legality of it according to NY "law".



I believe that the 1986 FOPA has some exemptions for travelers which protect them from prosecution if they are traveling with a firearm.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:00:21 PM EDT
Rent a car, drive to Vermont, catch a flight there to FL?
I would suggest PA, but Philly doesn't like guns, I think.
The point is there is nothing to stop you from going off
to FL from another state if NY won't let you leave.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:00:44 PM EDT
I do not know what airline you are flying but I fly NWA and here are their rules if you decide to take this route:

www.nwa.com/travel/luggage/specialitems.html#sports

Firearms, Handguns, and Ammunition
Passengers should check with Northwest for current policies, requirements, and restrictions on traveling with firearms and related items.

Northwest Airlines does not accept guns or firearms of any kind in carry-on luggage.

Northwest accepts handguns, BB guns, rifles, and shotguns as checked luggage, with certain limitations and requirements. Northwest accepts one of the following in lieu of one piece of luggage included in the free luggage allowance:


One (1) rifle case containing no more than two (2) rifles, one (1)shooting mat, one (1) noise suppressor and tools.
Two (2) shotguns in two (2) cases considered as one (1) item.
One (1) pistol case containing no more than five (5) handguns, one (1) scope, one (1) noise supressor and tools.


In addition to one (1) of the above items, Northwest accepts small arms ammunition up to a maximum of 11 pounds (5 kg). Guns and ammunition may be in the same piece of luggage. However, ammunition must be within its own packaging.

Northwest accepts firearm, handguns, and ammunition under the following conditions:
All firearms must be packed in a crush-proof container manufactured specifically for firearms or in a hard-sided suitcase. Hard-shell gun cases can be purchased at domestic airports.
Ammunition must be in the manufacturer's original packaging or a container specifically designed for ammunition. Ammunition with explosive or incendiary projectiles will not be accepted.
Passengers must verbally declare the firearm is unloaded. Northwest requires a passenger to sign a firearm unloaded tag and include it inside of luggage containing a firearm. No exterior tag or notice of firearm may appear on the case.

Luggage containing firearms must be locked and only the passenger may retain the key or combination. Airline personnel will not unload or handle firearms.


Northwest does not accept liability for loss, damage, or delay of firearms, handguns, and ammunition. Excess valuation insurance may not be purchased for transport of firearms, handguns, and ammunition.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:05:37 PM EDT
And they have NEVER asked to see in my case to count the goods. They do make you declare the firearm and sign a tag saying that the firearm is unloaded. They do not copy the tag, simply put it in the bag with the firearm. Then they make you wait 5-10 min as your bag now gets special treatment and goes straight to an x-ray machine to make sure you are not lying to them about the ammo I suppose. I have never had a problem but I follow the rules.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:06:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I would rent a car and cancel your plane ticket.



Absolutely right.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:21:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By libertyforall:
I don't understand--if you can't legally declare the handguns due to a lack of a permit, how is it that you currently posess these in NY?

Not saying I don't think you have every right to do so, but I question the legality of it according to NY "law".



I believe that the 1986 FOPA has some exemptions for travelers which protect them from prosecution if they are traveling with a firearm.


NYS does not recognize that law, with a few exceptions. When you go to the airport and declare the handguns and have no NY permit, you WILL be arrested. How did you get TO NY with the handguns in the first place?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:48:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 12:53:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By libertyforall:
I don't understand--if you can't legally declare the handguns due to a lack of a permit, how is it that you currently posess these in NY?

Not saying I don't think you have every right to do so, but I question the legality of it according to NY "law".



I believe that the 1986 FOPA has some exemptions for travelers which protect them from prosecution if they are traveling with a firearm.


NYS does not recognize that law, with a few exceptions. When you go to the airport and declare the handguns and have no NY permit, you WILL be arrested. How did you get TO NY with the handguns in the first place?



www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:00:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
NYS does not recognize that law, with a few exceptions. When you go to the airport and declare the handguns and have no NY permit, you WILL be arrested. How did you get TO NY with the handguns in the first place?



www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf



I understand where you are coming from; I am simply relating the facts.
People are still getting arrested. If any of you are planning on using that law as a defense, I suggest that you print it out along with the letter you linked toand carry it with you so you can present it to your attorney for their attention at the arraignment.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:08:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By jrzy:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
NYS does not recognize that law, with a few exceptions. When you go to the airport and declare the handguns and have no NY permit, you WILL be arrested. How did you get TO NY with the handguns in the first place?



www.nraila.org/images/DOJltrTSA.pdf



I understand where you are coming from; I am simply relating the facts.
People are still getting arrested. If any of you are planning on using that law as a defense, I suggest that you print it out along with the letter you linked toand carry it with you so you can present it to your attorney for their attention at the arraignment.



Yet another reason to stay the hell out of New York.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:20:12 PM EDT

To answer several questions, these are my Dad's rifles and handguns that I will be buying from him (I am visiting for Christmas).

I am flying American Airlines and will have to check if there is a rifle limit (I hadn't thought about that part)

thanks fo the input, keep it coming!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:21:55 PM EDT
danpass, I would strongly recommend driving them. Yes, it is a waste of time and money but it is the surest and safest way of getting the guns to FL.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:23:52 PM EDT
Rent a car, drive to another state where you aren't crucified for having
the temerity to own a gun and fly to Florida from that state.

Jeez, is that so hard to do?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:24:44 PM EDT

To answer another question, as the owner of the handguns I CAN Fedex them to myself as long as it is my home address. Its how I sent back and forth to Springfield Armory for some warranty work.

Just thought I would get further input first.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:24:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 1:25:38 PM EDT by LANCEMAN]

Originally Posted By danpass:
To answer several questions, these are my Dad's rifles and handguns that I will be buying from him (I am visiting for Christmas).

I am flying American Airlines and will have to check if there is a rifle limit (I hadn't thought about that part)

thanks fo the input, keep it coming!



Maybe you should just get your Dad to come visit you in Florida in a couple of months and bring the handguns with him then. What kind of procedures does Greyhound have, you'd probably need a few guns to ride on one of those freak shows anyway. I don't see how some of you guys can live under such rules, always gotta be on your toes I guess.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:28:23 PM EDT

If I do check the rifles as baggage (there are 3), what type of case under $125 would you recommend?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:29:41 PM EDT
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:32:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.



I was wondering about that, in FL a face-to-face is a simple matter of money changing hands.

I need to know what you are referring to.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:34:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.



Woah there repub18. That completely depends on the state. There is no such federal law. Some states require that you go through an FFL for all firearms (?CA,?MA), some require an FFL transfer for handguns (ie. RI) and the rest allow for private sales of firearms. You would have to be engaged in the business of selling firearms without a license to break federal law. That doesn't sound like his situation.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:34:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 1:36:47 PM EDT by repub18]

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By repub18:
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.



I was wondering about that, in FL a face-to-face is a simple matter of money changing hands.

I need to know what you are referring to.




You are in NY where possession of a handgun without a permit is a FELONY. Also to the fact the Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits you from purchasing a firearm privately from a out of state resident. By doing this you will be in state prison and then federal prison for a long time.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:34:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 1:37:47 PM EDT by tc556guy]

Originally Posted By danpass:
To answer several questions, these are my Dad's rifles and handguns that I will be buying from him (I am visiting for Christmas).

I am flying American Airlines and will have to check if there is a rifle limit (I hadn't thought about that part)

thanks for the input, keep it coming!


Why not just have him ship the guns to you in FL from a NY dealer? Your dad is going to have to show a valid disposition of the handguns to get them off his permit anyways. No better way to do that than to send them via FFL to FL.
This brings a new wrinkle to the issue. The pistols belong to your dad, and I assume that they are on his permit. These are not guns that you've travelled to or through NYS with in accordance with the Federal rules discussed earlier. You have no legal right to possess the handguns while in NYS.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:35:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 1:36:24 PM EDT by repub18]

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By repub18:
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.



Woah there repub18. That completely depends on the state. There is no such federal law. Some states require that you go through an FFL for all firearms (?CA,?MA), some require an FFL transfer for handguns (ie. RI) and the rest allow for private sales of firearms. You would have to be engaged in the business of selling firearms without a license to break federal law. That doesn't sound like his situation.




WRONG!! private sales of firearms between out of state residents is a federal felony.

Gun Control Act of 1968; read it
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:35:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By repub18:
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.



I was wondering about that, in FL a face-to-face is a simple matter of money changing hands.

I need to know what you are referring to.



Can you legally take possession of the handguns in NY state without an FFL? Are private sales allowed (outside of NYC)?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:38:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:
To answer several questions, these are my Dad's rifles and handguns that I will be buying from him (I am visiting for Christmas).

I am flying American Airlines and will have to check if there is a rifle limit (I hadn't thought about that part)

thanks for the input, keep it coming!


Why not just have him ship the guns to you in FL from a NY dealer? Your dad is going to have to show a valid disposition of the handguns to get them off his permit anyways. No better way to do that than to send them via FFL to FL.



This is probably the least hassle. I had forgotten that NY'rs have to register the VERY firearm itself on their ownership license.

Any NY'rs want to buy? In reality, I am helping my Dad out. He knows nothing of this site just yet.

IM me. (Mods too if this untoward)
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:38:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:
To answer several questions, these are my Dad's rifles and handguns that I will be buying from him (I am visiting for Christmas).

I am flying American Airlines and will have to check if there is a rifle limit (I hadn't thought about that part)

thanks for the input, keep it coming!


Why not just have him ship the guns to you in FL from a NY dealer? Your dad is going to have to show a valid disposition of the handguns to get them off his permit anyways. No better way to do that than to send them via FFL to FL.
This brings a new wrinkle to the issue. The pistols belong to your dad, and I assume that they are on his permit. These are not guns that you've travelled to or through NYS with in accordance with the Federal rules discussed earlier. You have no legal right to possess the handguns while in NYS.



This is what I would suggest. Find a dealer willing to accept the firearms from your father and that way he can transfer them to you.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:39:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By repub18:
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.



Woah there repub18. That completely depends on the state. There is no such federal law. Some states require that you go through an FFL for all firearms (?CA,?MA), some require an FFL transfer for handguns (ie. RI) and the rest allow for private sales of firearms. You would have to be engaged in the business of selling firearms without a license to break federal law. That doesn't sound like his situation.




WRONG!! private sales of firearms between out of state residents is a federal felony.



Oops! He's a FL state resident.

danpass,

Ship them to FL from NY FFL to FL FFL. Since you are a FL state resident anything else is a federal felony since your father is not an FFL. If your father was an FFL then you could bring the rifle back. repub18 is 100% correct on this. You are not moving to FL.

Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:39:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
This is probably the least hassle. I had forgotten that NY'rs have to register the VERY firearm itself on their ownership license.

Any NY'rs want to buy? In reality, I am helping my Dad out. He knows nothing of this site just yet.

IM me. (Mods too if this untoward)


Where in NYS is dad located?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:42:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:
This is probably the least hassle. I had forgotten that NY'rs have to register the VERY firearm itself on their ownership license.

Any NY'rs want to buy? In reality, I am helping my Dad out. He knows nothing of this site just yet.

IM me. (Mods too if this untoward)


Where in NYS is dad located?



I don't think he's interested in your $100 Gift Certificate/gun buyback program.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:42:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/25/2005 1:42:55 PM EDT by danpass]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:
This is probably the least hassle. I had forgotten that NY'rs have to register the VERY firearm itself on their ownership license.

Any NY'rs want to buy? In reality, I am helping my Dad out. He knows nothing of this site just yet.

IM me. (Mods too if this untoward)


Where in NYS is dad located?




SCARSDALE, NY
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:42:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
If I do check the rifles as baggage (there are 3), what type of case under $125 would you recommend?



if you have to buy a case, then renting a car is making evem more sense.

24 hours from ny to fl. plus you get to call yourself an I-95 corridor gun runner!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:44:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
SCARSDALE, NY


Sorry, I missed that if you posted it earlier; too far away for me to help without a drive on his part.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 1:45:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:
SCARSDALE, NY


Sorry, I missed that if you posted it earlier; too far away for me to help without a drive on his part.



Can meet you halfway (with the rifles). Handguns will have to be this coming weekend when he is available to go.
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 6:43:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:
SCARSDALE, NY


Sorry, I missed that if you posted it earlier; too far away for me to help without a drive on his part.



Can meet you halfway (with the rifles). Handguns will have to be this coming weekend when he is available to go.



Scarsdales 236 miles away. There must be a dealer closer that could help you out. I would be happy to help you and he get them shipped down to you, but the distance is an issue. Maybe theres a dealer on the board closer who can speak up?
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:05:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By danpass:
SCARSDALE, NY


Sorry, I missed that if you posted it earlier; too far away for me to help without a drive on his part.



Can meet you halfway (with the rifles). Handguns will have to be this coming weekend when he is available to go.



Scarsdales 236 miles away. There must be a dealer closer that could help you out. I would be happy to help you and he get them shipped down to you, but the distance is an issue. Maybe theres a dealer on the board closer who can speak up?



Yes there are several dealers around. I thought you were looking to purchase
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:18:20 PM EDT
You know I had 20 beautiful acres a few miles from lake george and his crap is why i sold it and bought the property in Pa.
Commie bastages in the NY/NJ govt.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 2:51:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:

Yes there are several dealers around. I thought you were looking to purchase


No, I was looking to help you out by getting them shipped down to you.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 3:14:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danpass:
If I do check the rifles as baggage (there are 3), what type of case under $125 would you recommend?



I'd break them down and put them in an ordinary hardshell suitcase...

Failing that, the cheapest hardshell that your local sporting goods shop sells (~$20)... An expensive gun case will get broken into just as easily as a cheap one...
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:17:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By repub18:
If you buy your dads handguns and rifles without going through a FFL you will be violating federal law. Just to let you know.



Woah there repub18. That completely depends on the state. There is no such federal law. Some states require that you go through an FFL for all firearms (?CA,?MA), some require an FFL transfer for handguns (ie. RI) and the rest allow for private sales of firearms. You would have to be engaged in the business of selling firearms without a license to break federal law. That doesn't sound like his situation.




WRONG!! private sales of firearms between out of state residents is a federal felony.



Oops! He's a FL state resident.

danpass,

Ship them to FL from NY FFL to FL FFL. Since you are a FL state resident anything else is a federal felony since your father is not an FFL. If your father was an FFL then you could bring the rifle back. repub18 is 100% correct on this. You are not moving to FL.




If my Dad sells me the rifles (here in NY) at an FFL dealer can I then take them on the plane with me? I will have my bill of sale and other paperwork if requested by the carrier, American Airlines.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 9:02:17 PM EDT
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