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Posted: 10/23/2004 2:53:37 PM EST
My wife loves them- I'm not crazy about them just yet, not before knowing more than Jeep's website will tell me. She keeps bugging me to ditch my old 'burban and buy something like the Liberty Renegade 4X4. Aside from already having my old truck payed for and not wanting to spend more cash on a SUV, I do hate how the Chevy eats gas and always needs repairs (still haven't fixed the 4x4 system). I am going to keep the Suburban around, no matter what I buy, just for camping/hunting/moving large stuff/and beater duties.

The Liberty would be my daily driver, commuter, and grocery-getter type of vehicle. Anybody own a Jeep Liberty 4X4, have any first-hand knowledge of the quality, durability, etc.? Many thanks, my fellow arcommers.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 2:55:47 PM EST
Uh Oh....
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:00:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Uh Oh....



Beat me to it....

TAKE COVER!!!!!!
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:02:23 PM EST
I was looking at one for my wife. I think they are way over priced, you can get a full size Ford, Chevy, Dodge for what they want for these things. One of them on the lot was 29,000. My parents just bought a fully loaded Ford F-150 Lariat 4X4 Four door for 33,000.

They are kind of neat looking though.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:02:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 3:03:52 PM EST by CavVet]

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Uh Oh....



+1 * 10





Agile, dependble, goes anywhere I wanna go (and no Im not a rock crawler so I dont give a shit about IFS damnit!).

With lift and tires gas mileage is a minus. Road trip got 16.3. Stock tires and no life = 18ish maybe.

www.jeepsunlimited.com

Good luck. YMMV.


Oh yeah, I normally trade every 2 years on the money. I am at 2 years 4 months, and like it so much I may not trade. I only wish it had the new diesel.



BTW- old pic, my W'04 sticker isnt n there yet. As for price, check edmunds. I got a good deal on mine, shop[ hard and smart and it can be got for <20K with what you want.

Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:40:46 PM EST
Edmunds? What are the major complaints about the Liberty from the detractors? Bring it on...I want to read all about it.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:51:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 3:54:02 PM EST by dissipator556]
BTW, the soon to come "common rail diesel" engine option does look tempting, if I can keep the old Suburban running another few months. 22 mpg city and 27 mpg highway with more torque than the V-6 model looks promising.
www.jeep.com/crd/index.html
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:53:29 PM EST
The diesel version is coming out...get it.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 3:55:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:15:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By dissipator556:
My wife loves them- I'm not crazy about them just yet, not before knowing more than Jeep's website will tell me. She keeps bugging me to ditch my old 'burban and buy something like the Liberty Renegade 4X4. Aside from already having my old truck payed for and not wanting to spend more cash on a SUV, I do hate how the Chevy eats gas and always needs repairs (still haven't fixed the 4x4 system). I am going to keep the Suburban around, no matter what I buy, just for camping/hunting/moving large stuff/and beater duties.

The Liberty would be my daily driver, commuter, and grocery-getter type of vehicle. Anybody own a Jeep Liberty 4X4, have any first-hand knowledge of the quality, durability, etc.? Many thanks, my fellow arcommers.



Here is the low-down:

1. Butt ugly.

2. extremely small cargo space. My dad saw one of his old friends at the petrol station that has one that he has to have one of these rooftop carriers b/c of extremely small cargo space.

3. Spare tire is in the way of the rear door.

Used late-model cherokee, is better, in my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:31:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2004 5:33:24 PM EST by 240z]
I own a 2002 and we like most things about it.

It is heavy, which is good in some ways, like for towing my Malibu ski boat, which it does easily, but with 200+ hp and an automatic, it is not a fuel efficient vehicle.

The tire is in the way if you want to load over it through the rear window, but it has not been a big deal to me.

I also tow it behind my motorhome, and while it is a bit heavy for that, it is designed with that in mind and was easily adapted to being a toad.

It is VERY agile and easy to park and manuever anywhere you want to go. I have spent some time off road in it, with a 100% stock setup, and it is also capable of pretty much anything you might want to do with it short of extreme rock crawling and climbing. I also have made several snow trips in it and it and it handled the trips just fine without the need to chain up.

I do not like the seats much, as I feel like I am in a high chair, but we bought the cloth seats and they are pretty basic.

It has been reliable with few problems so far, and it has 40,000 miles on it, so it is well broken in.

One word of caution: it is a pain to clean. All those plastic panels and cracks where they all meet make for a serious PITA when it gets really dirty, and more of a pain when it comes time to wax it.

We looked at all of the small or mid-sized SUVs, and due to Jeep's ease of conversion for toad duty, plus the fact that it was the only small SUV with limited slip and a 5,000 lb tow rating closed the deal for us.

Ray
Link Posted: 10/23/2004 5:32:34 PM EST
It is a chick vehicle

no more no less.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 4:21:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By deej86:
2. extremely small cargo space. My dad saw one of his old friends at the petrol station that has one that he has to have one of these rooftop carriers b/c of extremely small cargo space.




Glad you brought that up. The optical illusion confuses a lot of people who dont know anything first hand about a Liberty.


Liberty



**Headroom (Front) 40.7
**Headroom (Row 2) 42.1
Hiproom (Front) 57.0
Hiproom (Row 2) 47.4
Legroom (Front) 40.8
**Legroom (Row 2) 37.2
Shoulder Room (Front) 56.5
Shoulder Room (Row 2) 56.5



Grand Cherokee


Headroom (Front) 39.7
Headroom (Row 2) 39.3
**Hiproom (Front) 57.6
**Hiproom (Row 2) 60.6
**Legroom (Front) 41.7
Legroom (Row 2) 35.5
**Shoulder Room (Front) 59.1
**Shoulder Room (Row 2) 58.5


Park your Liberty next to a Grand, and you will see the same basic dimensions from firewall to tailgate. Its just packaged different. When we I manage to go to our regional ARFCOM shoots, I have no problem putting my pile of guns, ammo, gear, food, etc in my Libby with nothing riding in my roof rack (see pic). Actually I have never used it, and I have been known to overpack, taking all kinds of stuff I never use. On one camping/shooting/fishing trip last year with 1/2 dozen coworkers, another guy rode with me, and all of both of our stuff was inside. Same list as above for me, add fishing shit for him. Nothing outside.


The one thing I forgot I dont like about the Liberty is a Jeep thing period. I had a '00 Monte Carlo. Anytime anything went wrong, all warranty repairs that required overnight stay, came with a rental vehicle. Jeep has no such program. While this has had zero effect on me with my Jeep, I dont like it. Damnit if you sell me a 20K vehicle, and you need to keep it to fix it, I want a car to drive.

I wont buy another Jeep for this reason alone, despite the fact they have never had to fix anything except my horn, iirc.


Link Posted: 10/24/2004 5:00:04 AM EST
If you just want a daily commuter and grocery getter why buy an overproced 4WD Jeeep? Unless you can't live without the looks or the gay jeep name..... Everyone thinks that jeeps are so reliable and can drive off a cliff and still go. There six cylider is the most reliable thing they made, beyond that, it takes a whole lot of money to make a jeep really tough.

Anyway since you said your were not going to offroad it, if you can afford it buy it. My sister just bought a Saturn Vue. I have no Idea how well they review, but they are not that expensive and it seems to be just fine. I have ridden in it a bunch. They are only front WD, but you said you were going offroad. The engine is put together by honda I believe.


Just a suggestion, and I know I can't spell or type well.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:19:43 AM EST
Give Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep a few months, and they'll have the "HEMI" powered Liberty.....
Man, what a ride that would be.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:54:33 AM EST
The old-school Jeepers insist that the Liberty is unsuited for the Jeep name. You know... you will never get the 'Jeep wave' from other Jeepers.
That said, I never get the 'Jeep wave' in my JGC, so not a biggee.

What trim level are you considering?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 6:59:39 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:07:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Amish:
The old-school Jeepers insist that the Liberty is unsuited for the Jeep name. You know... you will never get the 'Jeep wave' from other Jeepers.
That said, I never get the 'Jeep wave' in my JGC, so not a biggee.

What trim level are you considering?



Yeah - I've read that here. I cannot think of anything for stupid and sheep-like than to buy a vehicle based on the reaction you expect from strangers! Pathetic, if you ask me.

FWIW, I looked at the LIberty and dismissed it due to the warranty (the rental thing) and the gas mileage. I do most of my driving on the highway and off road is not that important to me.

I now drive a Honda CRV that can barely tow a dead dog and that I have dumped over 1 grand into trying tp get a suspension that can handle a full load without pointing the headlights into the sky.

Jeep is coming out with their Diesel liberty shortly. It looks promising.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:15:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 7:17:17 AM EST by COZ]
I have one (2004) it is a compnay vehicle. We build highways and it drags on EVERYTHING! The clearance sucks! It will also "Power out" in 4HI easily. The seats are uncomfortable and there isn't anyplace flat to set anything on the dash or console. They are loud in terms of the trans and engine noises. Trans shifts "jerky"

Positives: They are very easy to park and turn around.

They're not a bad vehicle, it's just that for the money you can get a friggin Silverado or Ford.

Also I have to say my personal truck is a chevy, that's a world of difference. So my opinion is slightly biased because the jeep was given to me by my employer.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:17:22 AM EST
Had an 02 and upgraded to an 04 Limited (with ABS- had to look long and hard for that option). It's my wife's daily driver. She likes it. Has a few gadget quirks I wouldn't mind it not having (the overhead console switches to Metrics for no apparent reason, and it gave us faulty tire pressure readings once). Fuel pump (?) gets kind of noisy in cold weather and the sales guy said there wasn't anything they could do about it. Not horrible, but if you don't have the radio on, it might get to you after a bit.

Pluses: Comfortable (for both of us, and I'm 6'4") for short trips (for me, it didn't have enough legroom for long trips (which I tried once, that's how I found out)). Handles snow extremely well. Easy to drive. **OK** gas mileage, nothing to write home about. Priced decently- we got a great deal on both of ours. Shop around! Some dealerships have a ton of them on the lot so you can call your deal pretty much. All in all, she likes it. I like it too-- it's a good backup BOV if necessary. Durability should be good on the new ones... the 02 had a couple of problems (ball joint recall, fuel pump replaced twice). You might want to consider getting one with Selec-Trac.

Minuses: Foot room for me on long (2+ hr) trips. Cold weather rear end howl (might not impact you- just noticed you're in FLA). ABS difficult to find for some reason.

Mrs. Macman37 liked it enough to upgrade from an 02 Sport to an 04 Limited with all the goodies. She likes it and I like her having capabilities should a blizzard hit while we're at work or something. Let us know what you get. If you have more questions don't hesitate to ask.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:44:43 AM EST
It has no separate chassis... So it's nota a real off road vehicle. Just my .02
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:46:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Freezer:
It has no separate chassis... So it's nota a real off road vehicle. Just my .02



It's wheeled, not tracked, so its not a real off road vehicle.

Sheesh - some of you guys crack me up.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:50:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 7:52:11 AM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 10:47:23 AM EST
Thanks a bundle for all the inside scoop- I think I'll wait for the CRD (diesel) option to come out later this year. Anyone have a firm date and/or MSRP for this new engine option?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:19:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By dissipator556:
Thanks a bundle for all the inside scoop- I think I'll wait for the CRD (diesel) option to come out later this year. Anyone have a firm date and/or MSRP for this new engine option?



Firm date is kind of shaky, I'heard by the end of the year, but they're not in dealers yet. Hold on to your socks - it's a $8000 option. Here's an Autoweek review. Apologize for not making the link hot!

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100943
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:23:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
My main beef is ground clearance and no live axle in front.



Liberty-
A high-running ground clearance provides superb performance over a wide range of driving surfaces – like rock crawling off-road or while "accidentally" driving over a curb on-road – all while reducing the potential for undercarriage damage.

* Approach/Departure Angle - 36°/31.5°
* Breakover Angle - 21.8°
* Ground Clearance - 226 mm (8.9 in.)



****************************­*********
At curb weight, it has an impressive 9.1 inches of maximum ground clearance, 36.7° approach angle, a 28.6° departure angle and a breakover angle of 22.6°.
*****************************************­*****

TJ's approach, departure, breakover angles and ground clearance are:

* Approach Angle/Departure Angle – 41.8° / 31.3°
* Breakover Angle – 22.3°
* Running Ground Clearance – 224 mm (8.8 in.)



So from what I found, the Libety has damn close numbers, some higher some lower, on everything except for Running Ground clearance, which it actually beats the flagship TJ on and is .2" behing the GC on.

Thats twice you guys ahve done the anti gunners tricks, make up things with no documented facts.



Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:25:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jeepster:

Originally Posted By dissipator556:
Thanks a bundle for all the inside scoop- I think I'll wait for the CRD (diesel) option to come out later this year. Anyone have a firm date and/or MSRP for this new engine option?



Firm date is kind of shaky, I'heard by the end of the year, but they're not in dealers yet. Hold on to your socks - it's a $8000 option. Here's an Autoweek review. Apologize for not making the link hot!

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100943




$8000 option!!!! LOL, at leat you get 21/27 MPG..at that savings it should take you 20 years to get that money back!

What a rip!
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:27:05 PM EST
can you get a 2001 CHerokee instead?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:32:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By gaspain:

Originally Posted By Jeepster:

Originally Posted By dissipator556:
Thanks a bundle for all the inside scoop- I think I'll wait for the CRD (diesel) option to come out later this year. Anyone have a firm date and/or MSRP for this new engine option?



Firm date is kind of shaky, I've heard by the end of the year, but they're not in dealers yet. Hold on to your socks - it's a $8000 option. Here's an Autoweek review. Apologize for not making the link hot!

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100943




$8000 option!!!! LOL, at leat you get 21/27 MPG..at that savings it should take you 20 years to get that money back!

What a rip!



The one thing that may sway me towards it is residual value. With the Mercedes diesel you could put some high mileage on it and still have it be worth something. I still think it's priced too high and they'll have to put incentives on it though.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:34:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 12:35:43 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:35:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

I drove both vehicles on the same rutted dirt roads.

The Cherokee never drug the roadbed once.

The Liberty drags on the same roadbeds times too numerous to count.





So if the Liberty was .2" of an inch higher it would be ok????




Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:36:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 12:40:27 PM EST by Defender3]
FWIW: Jeep also has a program offering $500 cash back on any 2004 or 2005 new or leased jeep if you're a first responder......clarification: sworn LE, firefighters, EMT and paramedics which can be transfered to a person in the immediate household - specifically lists corrections officers as ineligible.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 12:36:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 12:37:55 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:00:18 PM EST
At 8 Large, the CRD option looks a little out of my price range...that's just a ridiculous amount to pay on a 20K vehicle- can you say "sticker shock?" The 200hp V-6 doesn't have the kind of mileage I would expect from a smaller vehicle, but I'm damn sure not going to the 4 banger.

Interesting price range out there on this vehicle, with guys like CavVet giving me hope that I can lease a decently equipped 4X4 for around +-$300/month on a 36-39 month lease.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:01:31 PM EST
BTW, Cav, what kind of lift (body/suspension and make) is on your Liberty, and how much should I expect to pay for one?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:04:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/24/2004 2:05:47 PM EST by CavVet]
I gt the little 2.5 inch one, Daystar, and damn near stole it.

I found it on a jeep board, $100 shipped.

ETA: iirc, from what I read, anything more puts a major bind on all the stuff under it, and can cause non warranty major repairs, unless you want to spend big bucks doing it the first time, 2.5 is about it.

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:10:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By CavVet:
I gt the little 2.5 inch one, Daystar, and damn near stole it.

I found it on a jeep board, $100 shipped.

...



You thief! Damn you! I guess as a lease vehicle I wouldn't be able to lift it anyway. Oh well- guess it's a good thing that there are skid plates everywhere underneath.

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 2:16:12 PM EST
Skid plates are an option. And they do not interfere with lift install at all.

The rear pucks can b done in any garage in 10 minutes, with shock changeout.

The front ones have to be ?machine pressed? in/on the struts.

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:47:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

I drove both vehicles on the same rutted dirt roads.

The Cherokee never drug the roadbed once.

The Liberty drags on the same roadbeds times too numerous to count.





So if the Liberty was .2" of an inch higher it would be ok????









I do believe he said Cherokee, not GRAND Cherokee...


Jeep Cherokee stats

JEEP CHEROKEE - SPECIFICATION
Key Data
Project type Sports Utility Vehicle
Engine Size 4.0 litre
Transmission 4 Speed Automatic or 5 Speed Manual
Power 190bhp
Torque(lbs-ft) 225
Drivetrain 2WD/4WD
Suspension Quadra-Link
Brakes Front disc/rear drum
Launch Date 2001
Wheels P225/75R15 Goodyear Wrangler RT/S all-terrain
Key Players
Sponsor DaimlerChrysler
Key Specifications
Length (in.) 167.5
Width (in.) 69.4
Height (in.) 64.0
Wheelbase(in.) 101.4
Overhang front/rear (in.) 29.1/37.0
Track, front/rear (in.) 58.0/58.0
Ground Clearance(at curb weight) Approach Angle 38.0º
Ground Clearance(at curb weight) Departure Angle 31.0º
Ground Clearance(at curb weight) Breakover Angle 21.0º
Running Ground Clearance 2WD(in.) 10.0
Running Ground Clearance 4WD(in.) 10.6

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 3:49:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:07:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By napalm:
I do believe he said Cherokee, not GRAND Cherokee...

Running Ground Clearance 2WD(in.) 10.0
Running Ground Clearance 4WD(in.) 10.6




So noted.... 1.1 or 1.7 inches. That is a difference.



Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:16:48 PM EST
CavVet, you ever see the S&N custom Liberty? Out of Arlington?
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:25:38 PM EST
Nope. Got pics?

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:27:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By CavVet:
Nope. Got pics?




Lemme look.
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:30:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:41:34 PM EST



Oh shit......I am speechless!

Link Posted: 10/24/2004 7:45:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By CavVet:



Oh shit......I am speechless!




I'll ask my brother to track down the full set of pics for you. S&N did the roll cage on his Wrangler. Their work is beautiful.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:03:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2004 9:05:08 PM EST by Boomer]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/pht/pht20040701rs.html



That COMPLETLY validate the single biggest criticism of the KJ; it's weak independent front suspension system that provides little articulation.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:12:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Boomer:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/pht/pht20040701rs.html



That COMPLETLY validate the single biggest criticism of the KJ; it's weak independent front suspension system that provides little articulation.



Yeah, but you're not gonna run into that problem with the S&N Liberty
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:17:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Boomer:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
www.advanceautoparts.com/english/youcan/html/pht/pht20040701rs.html



That COMPLETLY validate the single biggest criticism of the KJ; it's weak independent front suspension system that provides little articulation.



Yeah, but you're not gonna run into that problem with the S&N Liberty



Between the initial purchase cost of Liberty (or any off the lot vehicle for that matter) and the cost of those mods, I would have just had S&N build me one of their kick ass rock buggies. It would have been less expensive and you wouldn't worry about flopping it.
Link Posted: 10/25/2004 9:45:59 PM EST
The mods that you are looking at cost 15,000 in LABOR! Just on the suspension!

It'd be about 75 large, all done up.

Plus the cost of the jeep!
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