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Link Posted: 12/23/2020 1:40:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ShOcKeRpb:
Once you get a shippable product, I'm game to be the first one to throw some money at you. Been on a mead kick lately and have been running out of things to try locally.
View Quote


We will keep you guys up to speed.

In the meantime, I highly recommend you check out Manic Meadery.  They ship, and their meads are fantastic.

Also the owner has been helpful to me with my questions and is a staunch 2nd amendment supporter.

https://www.manicmeadery.com/shop/
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 9:23:50 AM EST
12/14/2020- applied for Federal license
12/30/2020- applied for state manufacturer's permit
12/31/2020- applied for State license

Permits are almost through the city, we hope they'll be approved THIS WEEK and construction can begin NEXT WEEK.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 12:50:03 PM EST
Glad to see it's still moving along!
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 6:20:11 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djkest:


We are always looking. So far working with Beeyond the Hive and Lockhart Honey farms in addition to some regional suppliers. Know someone? We will be using 60 lb buckets and we need about 130 lbs of honey per barrel.

Thanks for everyone who is following along. Sorry I don't have a ton to show right now. It's mostly paperwork, licenses, and spreadsheets at the moment.
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PM incoming
Link Posted: 1/11/2021 3:03:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2021 3:17:53 PM EST by djkest]
Federal License APPROVED 1/4/2021
Manufactured Food license APPROVED 1/11/2021
State License- Pending (applied 12/31/2020)
Health Department - Pending (applied 1/5/2021)
City Building Department- Pending (applied 11/22/2020)

Also starting to order some more equipment as the date draws closer. Some stuff has 3-4 week lead times, hopefully won't run into a situation where we can't produce because we can't get equipment.
Link Posted: 1/26/2021 6:58:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/26/2021 7:13:43 PM EST by djkest]
Did some more demolition over the previous weekend. Removed the old, non-ADA-compliant restroom along with the old mop closet.  I also removed some really old air ducts in the ceiling. They were LINED with fiberglass and were disgusting inside.

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Side note: Shipping costs have skyrocketed in the last 8 months. What used to be $300 is now $500.

Actual construction by professionals: starts this week.
Link Posted: 1/27/2021 9:59:16 AM EST
Glad to see it coming along!
Link Posted: 1/27/2021 6:39:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/27/2021 7:04:56 PM EST by djkest]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BiggEZ:
Glad to see it coming along!
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Should be able to provide more frequent pictures soon. City pre-construction permits are approved, construction starts on Friday.
Link Posted: 1/27/2021 10:04:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/27/2021 10:05:18 PM EST by USSRangerSM]
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 9:23:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2021 9:35:12 AM EST by djkest]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USSRangerSM:
can’t believe haven’t  seen this before, Good job with getting out there and doing it!
I love the demolition and building part of it but the paperwork would absolutely drive me crazy (all of your license/permits and etc.)

Have you estimated the building materials before the prices went up? How has that changed if any?
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@USSRangerSM welcome aboard. Consider subscribing if you'd like to see how this ends up.

Our estimates were around August/Sept so I think prices have mostly stabilized.
One thing that is disheartening is that shipping costs have increased... a lot.

A couple of examples.
You could ship a pallet for $200-300 before covid. Same pallet is $500-600 now.

Shipping for our Walk-in cooler went up $150 in 2 months.

Shipping for our drip tray went from $160 to $240 in the last 6 months.

So I think all said and done, shipping increases alone are going to cost us about $3k.

Also at this point our original budget to our current budget has doubled due to cost increases and scope creep.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 9:35:49 AM EST
I’m struggling to find the time to do another 5gal batch of homemade (also waiting on those pesky bees).

Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 10:12:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USSRangerSM:
can’t believe haven’t  seen this before, Good job with getting out there and doing it!
I love the demolition and building part of it but the paperwork would absolutely drive me crazy (all of your license/permits and etc.)

Have you estimated the building materials before the prices went up? How has that changed if any?
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I had price increases on all steel framing of 10% on Jan 1 and another 10% Feb. 1
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 10:45:05 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 11:19:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Handydave:


I had price increases on all steel framing of 10% on Jan 1 and another 10% Feb. 1
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Luckily, we aren't doing too much steel framing.
Just two minimum-sized bathrooms and a 6' wall for the utility closet. Nothing load-bearing.
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 11:51:43 AM EST
I have no clue how anyone could have a meadery unless they also had an apiary.  Otherwise, seems like the cost of honey would kill you.

(I’m lucky enough to support my little hobby through my son’s friend that tends bees... I’m not above trading mead for honey)
Link Posted: 1/28/2021 1:23:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2021 1:24:53 PM EST by djkest]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
I have no clue how anyone could have a meadery unless they also had an apiary.  Otherwise, seems like the cost of honey would kill you.

(I’m lucky enough to support my little hobby through my son’s friend that tends bees... I’m not above trading mead for honey)
View Quote


It's probably cheaper than you think. The honey that we will use is $1.90 - $8.50 / lb.  (with the bulk of it being $3.20/lb) I use between 3.5 and 5.5 lbs of honey per gallon of mead.  Small Apiary operations aren't really profitable, it's more about the passion for it which I completely understand.

Also, for those who have been asking, these are the states we'll be able to ship to, through VINOshipper:

Alabama1
Alaska
Arizona
Cali­fornia (WP)
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Haw­aii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
IowaKansas
Louisiana
Maine
MarylandMassachusetts
Minnesota
Missouri
Ne­braska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Penns­ylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
Texas
Vermont
­Virginia
Washington State
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

Certa­in states have restrictions though, for example you can only ship full cases to Alabama, and you can only order 1 of each "brand" (batch) per year. So like, "Direct Currant" would be a brand and "Blackbird" would be another.

Link Posted: 1/28/2021 1:26:41 PM EST
So one thing you should look into is the producer registration with the state of kentucky. then it is fully legal to do direct to consumer sales and mead is very popular in the state. The law is brand new and just went into effect about a month ago, but it would open up all of kentucky for direct to consumer without the middleman.
Link Posted: 1/29/2021 11:46:25 PM EST
Attachment Attached File


The latest schematic (chopped the sides off): shows all the mechanical / HVAC stuff.
Link Posted: 1/30/2021 7:40:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/30/2021 10:37:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/30/2021 10:38:11 AM EST by Handydave]
The plan looks good but I have 1 suggestion.

I think the back of house is potentially going to get hot with the equipment & freezers pumping out heat.

Install a damper between the 2 outlets for the retail area which can be choked down ( not off and within static pressure limits) so during low use of the front area additional cooling can be directed to the rear.

It does not have to be automated or tied into the thermostat.
You just need a switch and power from a transformer.
You could even put it on a timer.
You should not have to revise the plans to do this.

Link Posted: 2/1/2021 6:04:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By USSRangerSM:
you might have covered this already, and I might’ve missed it but I’m gonna ask:

When is your projected completion date?
how has Colorado been with the china virus and small businesses? Is that a concern to you while getting this off the ground?
what do you think your total investment will be before the doors open?
Will you also carry domestic beer?
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April 15th

It's been okay... kinda tarded like everywhere else. We live in a red county so that's a benefit.

Well north of 6 figures

No, we can't serve beer based on the license we hold.  We can sell: Mead, Wine, and Cider made in Colorado. We can also sell soft drinks and cold snacks that are pre-prepared.
Link Posted: 2/1/2021 6:05:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Handydave:
The plan looks good but I have 1 suggestion.

I think the back of house is potentially going to get hot with the equipment & freezers pumping out heat.

Install a damper between the 2 outlets for the retail area which can be choked down ( not off and within static pressure limits) so during low use of the front area additional cooling can be directed to the rear.

It does not have to be automated or tied into the thermostat.
You just need a switch and power from a transformer.
You could even put it on a timer.
You should not have to revise the plans to do this.

View Quote


That is a good suggestion. The plans show a wall between the two but we were hoping for a gate so that people can see into the back. We'll see how it goes.
Link Posted: 2/1/2021 6:50:16 PM EST
Tagging. Big mead fan here
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 1:15:54 AM EST
Cool project- I've helped plan and build out at least 10 breweries/taprooms.  One suggestion if its not to late more your cooler door from the east wall to the south wall (as drawn top N bottom S) next to the taps.  Getting things in and out of there during a busy time will be a PIA for the staff.  That door in the middle of the longer N/S cooler wall is taking up valuable behind the bar space.  Good luck.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 9:20:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brewerman:
Cool project- I've helped plan and build out at least 10 breweries/taprooms.  One suggestion if its not to late more your cooler door from the east wall to the south wall (as drawn top N bottom S) next to the taps.  Getting things in and out of there during a busy time will be a PIA for the staff.  That door in the middle of the longer N/S cooler wall is taking up valuable behind the bar space.  Good luck.
View Quote


That would make sense except our S wall contains the cooling unit.

We are using a "coolbot" cooler, which employs a large window air conditioner and a control unit rather than a traditional cooler.  While it does have some drawbacks, it has a number of benefits as well.

We don't anticipate staff going in and out of the cooler too often, but we will pay special attention to clearance around that area.

It was difficult for us to fit everything we needed into the space, especially when we were told we would need 2 restrooms instead of one.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 5:55:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djkest:


That would make sense except our S wall contains the cooling unit.

We are using a "coolbot" cooler, which employs a large window air conditioner and a control unit rather than a traditional cooler.  While it does have some drawbacks, it has a number of benefits as well.

We don't anticipate staff going in and out of the cooler too often, but we will pay special attention to clearance around that area.

It was difficult for us to fit everything we needed into the space, especially when we were told we would need 2 restrooms instead of one.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djkest:
Originally Posted By Brewerman:
Cool project- I've helped plan and build out at least 10 breweries/taprooms.  One suggestion if its not to late more your cooler door from the east wall to the south wall (as drawn top N bottom S) next to the taps.  Getting things in and out of there during a busy time will be a PIA for the staff.  That door in the middle of the longer N/S cooler wall is taking up valuable behind the bar space.  Good luck.


That would make sense except our S wall contains the cooling unit.

We are using a "coolbot" cooler, which employs a large window air conditioner and a control unit rather than a traditional cooler.  While it does have some drawbacks, it has a number of benefits as well.

We don't anticipate staff going in and out of the cooler too often, but we will pay special attention to clearance around that area.

It was difficult for us to fit everything we needed into the space, especially when we were told we would need 2 restrooms instead of one.


If that coolbot is the box going into the utility room with a vented door, you are dumping a ton of heat into that closet /space with that coolbot plus two freestanding freezers.
That's a lot of wasted energy/ AC used just to overcome reject heat which will likely cause your AC to be too small
I understand you are already way over budget but that's a mistake in my opinion.
If I had an engineer proposed that to me and/or client wanted that I would flat tell them out no.
Otherwise when summer comes around they will call me pissed off they / their customers are baking.
Link Posted: 2/2/2021 6:09:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Handydave:


If that coolbot is the box going into the utility room with a vented door, you are dumping a ton of heat into that closet /space with that coolbot plus two freestanding freezers.
That's a lot of wasted energy/ AC used just to overcome reject heat which will likely cause your AC to be too small
I understand you are already way over budget but that's a mistake in my opinion.
If I had an engineer proposed that to me and/or client wanted that I would flat tell them out no.
Otherwise when summer comes around they will call me pissed off they / their customers are baking.
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Well the alternative cooler we looked at has the cooling unit on top of the cooler instead of on the side, the compressor is still contained within the thermal envelope of the building. The alternative would be mounting the compressor for the cooler on the roof (remote compressor), which then removes it from the inside.
The coolbot unit is about 40% more efficient than a traditional design and so it's only on about 10 minutes an hour, on average.

I'll have to check the freezers but I don't think they are going to be putting out much heat.  A larger concern is the 2HP gycol chiller that will be in the back.

All that said, you could be right- we'll see how it goes.

Our climate is pretty friendly for keeping things cool, at our altitude, it rarely gets over 80 degrees- we use a lot more heat than we do cooling (about 5x as much). We cool our whole house with 2 small air conditioners which we typically use memorial day through labor day.

Link Posted: 2/5/2021 6:18:39 PM EST
Tell me.  Tell me of your metheglins and hydromels.
Link Posted: 2/8/2021 2:16:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpanishInquisition:
Tell me.  Tell me of your metheglins and hydromels.
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I haven't done many spice-only meads, but do add spices to plenty of different batches. I seem to use a lot of cinnamon and vanilla. I have also used coconut, allspice, etc.

Hydromels- we call them session mead or draft mead - they are lower-alcohol and typically carbonated. I have just started making those.
Link Posted: 2/16/2021 7:00:31 PM EST
Just started making mead.Glad I found this thread. Sad I'm not in the Springs anymore. Will make sure to visit when I'm in town tho. All the best!
Link Posted: 2/22/2021 9:20:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/22/2021 9:21:57 AM EST by djkest]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By clean_dude:
Just started making mead.Glad I found this thread. Sad I'm not in the Springs anymore. Will make sure to visit when I'm in town tho. All the best!
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We'll be able to ship to Colorado addresses as well.

Whereabouts do you call home these days?

I just spent  4 days in California touring 6 wineries and a meadery - Napa Valley,  Carmel, and Montebello regions. It was a pretty cool trip, but the way the high-end wine world does things is quite a bit different than how we are going to run our operations. Still, it was neat to see.
Link Posted: 2/22/2021 9:54:53 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By djkest:


It's probably cheaper than you think. The honey that we will use is $1.90 - $8.50 / lb.  (with the bulk of it being $3.20/lb) I use between 3.5 and 5.5 lbs of honey per gallon of mead.  Small Apiary operations aren't really profitable, it's more about the passion for it which I completely understand.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By djkest:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
I have no clue how anyone could have a meadery unless they also had an apiary.  Otherwise, seems like the cost of honey would kill you.

(I’m lucky enough to support my little hobby through my son’s friend that tends bees... I’m not above trading mead for honey)


It's probably cheaper than you think. The honey that we will use is $1.90 - $8.50 / lb.  (with the bulk of it being $3.20/lb) I use between 3.5 and 5.5 lbs of honey per gallon of mead.  Small Apiary operations aren't really profitable, it's more about the passion for it which I completely understand.



I try to get my honey from locals, which is expensive. It would never work for commercial purposes. My son’s friend is a good kid, so throwing him a few extra bucks doesn’t bother me (at the scale I make mead it’s no big deal).
Link Posted: 2/24/2021 9:35:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2021 9:42:00 AM EST by djkest]
Some minor progress:

The floor has been cut for floor drains and water pipes
Attachment Attached File


Also the drywall has been fixed in this area:
Attachment Attached File


Interesting thing about this, since we are going with an exposed ceiling, we actually have to fix the walls above the previous drop ceiling.
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