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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/7/2006 10:28:09 AM EDT
I have always been curious about this combination. It's a given in many places that merely open carrying by non-LEO in certain areas results in sheeple calls to 911. Can someone be charged for "disturbing the peace" simply by open carrying?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:29:12 AM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:34:38 AM EDT
Not likely in AZ.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:34:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Witch_Doctor:
yes


Why not get on the caller's case for calling the cops for what is not a crime?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:35:36 AM EDT
You can be charged with anything, whether it holds up in court is another question.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:36:09 AM EDT
"Disturbing the peace" = vague infraction that the JBTs can abuse for just about anyone.



But, for some reason, the people who really ought to be charged with it (protesting/rioting illegals, anyone?) get passed over for people who open carry.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:36:36 AM EDT
That is exactly what Denver will hit you with.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:37:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:39:48 AM EDT by bullyforyou]


calling the cops because you are too scared of someone [who is not doing anything even remotely threatening] who is open carrying should be justification for a good shoot.

ETA: i've always said that this is biggotry at it's worst. the .gov never gets called on it though because it deals with guns. if someone called the police because they were scared of a black person, they'd get laughed at. if they didn't, the black person would eventually wil a lawsuit against all involved for millions.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:41:03 AM EDT
If your action of open carry causes someone to be so alarmed as to call the po-po, have you not disturbed to peace???
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:45:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:
If your action of open carry causes someone to be so alarmed as to call the po-po, have you not disturbed to peace???



Did you disturb their peace, or did their own irrational fear of a simple object disturb their own peace?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:48:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
If your action of open carry causes someone to be so alarmed as to call the po-po, have you not disturbed to peace???



Did you disturb their peace, or did their own irrational fear of a simple object disturb their own peace?



See... it depends on perspective. However, if they thought enough of it that the actually dropped a dime, the charge may stick. Of course, depending on the officer responding, dept policy, local prosecutor, and wheather or not it was a Glock.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:48:39 AM EDT
Most "disturbing the peace" laws are written in such a way that the act has to be one "calculated" to cause alarm. Simply wearing a gun cannot reasonably be thought of as an act, standing alone, which would be calculated to cause alarm. Especially since open carry is a Constitutional right and should be recognized as such. However, what should be and what is are two entirely different things, and enough people believe that no one should have a gun in public but the police that I would not be surprised that you don't get hauled off to jail for it in many places, and I wouldn't be surprised if the charge sticks at trial. After all, most people are sheep, which means that most judges, police, lawyers, and juries are sheeple as well.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:48:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:51:08 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By jtb33:
I have always been curious about this combination. It's a given in many places that merely open carrying by non-LEO in certain areas results in sheeple calls to 911. Can someone be charged for "disturbing the peace" simply by open carrying?



The police cannot charge you with a crime for doing nothing illegal.

To disturb the peace you must actually be doing something that is against the law.

Thankfully hysterical idiots who "feel" threatened by seeing someone obeying the laws of the area are not usually the standard by which such legal matters are judged.

In Virginia, I have never seen anyone charged with DTP for open carry. I have seen some officers charge for illegal carry (which is a result of their misunderstanding of the confusing wording of a Virginia statute...) but not DTP.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:49:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:51:13 AM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Zatu:

Originally Posted By Witch_Doctor:
yes


Why not get on the caller's case for calling the cops for what is not a crime?



You don't understand WI. The police have openly stated that they will arrest anyone for open carry and charge them with disorderly conduct (despite the fact that there is no law against open carry in WI), so the person calling the cops will be in the clear.

Which is interesting...because our state constitution says that residents of WI have the right to keep and bare arms for purposes of defense, security, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

Oh, and there IS a law against concealed carry...

So, you tell me how we're supposed to legally use our constituional rights in this state.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:52:22 AM EDT
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Now replace "needs" with peace.

bah!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:52:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:54:15 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
You don't understand WI. The police have openly stated that they will arrest anyone for open carry and charge them with disorderly conduct (despite the fact that there is no law against open carry in WI), so the person calling the cops will be in the clear.

Which is interesting...because our state constitution says that residents of WI have the right to keep and bare arms for purposes of defense, security, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

Oh, and there IS a law against concealed carry...

So, you tell me how we're supposed to legally use our constituional rights in this state.



Sounds like you need a court case to tell the po-po in that state to back the heck off.

Arresting someone and charging them for something that is not criminal is HARRASSMENT, pure and simple.

BTW -- If there is no statute expressly permitting WI LEO's to carry openly, then perhaps WI gun owners should demand that these officers be arrested for THEIR "disorderly conduct"....
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:53:15 AM EDT
I'll let you know when one of the scared grocery store employees that follow me around the store, staring at my gun, acting like I am going to rob the place, finnaly gives in and calls the cops on me for browsing the produce section.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:54:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:55:42 AM EDT by xanadu]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


The police cannot charge you with a crime for doing nothing illegal.



Minus 1 point for a double negative.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:55:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:56:50 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
"Disturbing the peace" = vague infraction that the JBTs can abuse for just about anyone.





As a Californian you should that the police cannot arrest you for disturbing the peace. A on duty police officers peace cannot be disturbed, and he cannot make an arrest for that misdemeanor not committed in his presence.

If you are going to toss out the JBT slur at least try to know what you're talking about.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:56:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
You don't understand WI. The police have openly stated that they will arrest anyone for open carry and charge them with disorderly conduct (despite the fact that there is no law against open carry in WI), so the person calling the cops will be in the clear.

Which is interesting...because our state constitution says that residents of WI have the right to keep and bare arms for purposes of defense, security, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

Oh, and there IS a law against concealed carry...

So, you tell me how we're supposed to legally use our constituional rights in this state.



Sounds like you need a court case to tell the po-po in that state to back the heck off.

Arresting someone and charging them for something that is not criminal is HARRASSMENT, pure and simple.

BTW -- If there is no statute expressly permitting WI LEO's to carry openly, then perhaps WI gun owners should demand that these officers be arrested for THEIR "disorderly conduct"....



"Hello 911, my god there's a man with a gun. He's wearing navy blue..."
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:56:10 AM EDT
There's no law against open carry here in MA either, but just try it and see what happens.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:56:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
You don't understand WI. The police have openly stated that they will arrest anyone for open carry and charge them with disorderly conduct (despite the fact that there is no law against open carry in WI), so the person calling the cops will be in the clear.

Which is interesting...because our state constitution says that residents of WI have the right to keep and bare arms for purposes of defense, security, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

Oh, and there IS a law against concealed carry...

So, you tell me how we're supposed to legally use our constituional rights in this state.



Sounds like you need a court case to tell the po-po in that state to back the heck off.

Arresting someone and charging them for something that is not criminal is HARRASSMENT, pure and simple.

BTW -- If there is no statute expressly permitting WI LEO's to carry openly, then perhaps WI gun owners should demand that these officers be arrested for THEIR "disorderly conduct"....



In WISCONSIN?!?!?!?!

May I remind you WI and IL are now the only states that have NO method of legal CCW for it's subjects, and you can bet that will NEVER change.

Fuck WI, and move somewhere nice. Texas worked for me.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:56:47 AM EDT
Not in Virginia since pre-emption!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:57:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
"Hello 911, my god there's a man with a gun. He's wearing navy blue..."



Exactly.

You can report that you just saw a "man with a gun", freaked out, and called 911 like a good little sheeple.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:01:35 AM EDT
I have been charged with disturbing the peace when I did nothing illegal. I did, however, inadvertantly freak someone else out and that was enough. Court costs plus lawyer = 750 dollars.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:03:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
I have been charged with disturbing the peace when I did nothing illegal. I did, however, inadvertantly freak someone else out and that was enough. Court costs plus lawyer = 750 dollars.



Care to give slightly more details?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:04:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
Most "disturbing the peace" laws are written in such a way that the act has to be one "calculated" to cause alarm. Simply wearing a gun cannot reasonably be thought of as an act, standing alone, which would be calculated to cause alarm.



Unfortunately, this is not the case in WI. Simple DC doesn't even need a "victim" here (per case law).
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:07:24 AM EDT
Part of a high school prank, I was sitting in a parked car with a mask on (not illegal in that particular state). The owner of a nearby shop saw me and thought I was going to come in and rob them, called the cops. Cops come (5 cruisers, charge the car with mini-14's). I end up getting charged with disturbing the peace, get ordered to pay court costs at a hearing, continued without a finding. In retrospect I can't really blame anyone, it was pretty stupid of me. But the matter stands that I wasn't doing anything illegal but someone got scared so I was charged with disturbing the peace.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:09:16 AM EDT
I open carry here in AZ, phoenix, mesa, chandler, gilber to be exact.. NEVER EVER had an issue.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:13:38 AM EDT
Only a matter of time until Wisconsin gets CCW. We've been vetoed twice, and came damn close to over riding it. Once Doyle is out, CCW is in.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:14:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 11:16:35 AM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
You don't understand WI. The police have openly stated that they will arrest anyone for open carry and charge them with disorderly conduct (despite the fact that there is no law against open carry in WI), so the person calling the cops will be in the clear.

Which is interesting...because our state constitution says that residents of WI have the right to keep and bare arms for purposes of defense, security, hunting, recreation, or any other lawful purpose.

Oh, and there IS a law against concealed carry...

So, you tell me how we're supposed to legally use our constituional rights in this state.



Sounds like you need a court case to tell the po-po in that state to back the heck off.

Arresting someone and charging them for something that is not criminal is HARRASSMENT, pure and simple.

BTW -- If there is no statute expressly permitting WI LEO's to carry openly, then perhaps WI gun owners should demand that these officers be arrested for THEIR "disorderly conduct"....



Unfortunately, our state SC has a liberal majority.

As you're well aware, liberals are able to come to conclusions that are based completely outside the realm of logic.

Therfore, up until this point they have been able to weasel out of making any kind of broad decision that abolishes the laws which conflict with the rights affirmed to us by our state (and federal) constitution.

The last case, Fisher vs. WI, was a good step in the right direction. Mr. Fisher was charged with violating one of these conflicting laws and his lawyer did an excelent job of soundly thrashing the "logic" behind those laws.

That case was heard in February and the decision is expected to be handed down in June. Based on the oral araguments and some of the comments made by the SC justices it is looking good, but then again they are liberals, so you never know what sort of convoluted decision they might come up with to weasel themselves out of allowing WI residents to legally enjoy their rights.

Link to audio of oral arguments

Link to thread discussing this court case and transription of audio

ETA: If the Fisher decision goes our way, we may get AK/VT style CCW.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:17:29 AM EDT
[flame suit on] Move to someplace that's not a liberal controlled shithole! I refuse to go places that restrict my rights. [flamesuit on]



Hessian-1
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:39:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:


The police cannot charge you with a crime for doing nothing illegal.

To disturb the peace you must actually be doing something that is against the law.


Thankfully hysterical idiots who "feel" threatened by seeing someone obeying the laws of the area are not usually the standard by which such legal matters are judged.

In Virginia, I have never seen anyone charged with DTP for open carry. I have seen some officers charge for illegal carry (which is a result of their misunderstanding of the confusing wording of a Virginia statute...) but not DTP.



Most of the time, disturbing the peace charges come from loud music, arguments, harrassment, or just your everyday psycho idiots making a bunch of noise or causing a ruckus.

Last time I checked, it wasn't illegal to listen to stereos, and there's this little thing called freedom of speech. Even in the cases where there's a noise ordinance, disturbing the peace is usually used if there's a specific victim.

If there's a complaintant/victim, there's disturbing the peace- plain and simple.

For those cases where the person's being a dick and gets on somebody's nerves, it's great. For the example that started this thread - it sucks because, in all technicalities, it's legit. Not fair at all, but legit. someone's peace disturbed and willing to be the vicitim if it were to go to trial = PC for disturbing the peace. We of course have officer discretion, and I'd be (calmly explaining to) (chewing out) the person who made the bullshit call and telling them that (there's nothing wrong) (they're an idiot).
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 7:59:41 PM EDT
btw that's bear arms, not bare arms.

And as noted there are a variety of differences between the states on laws that may or may not apply. And if not Disturbing the Peace there's always Disorderly Conduct.

And in almost all states an LEO can not arrest for a misdemeanor he didn't witness, but if the complainant wants to make a citizens arrest (in those states where allowed), the LEO may be obligated to take the arrestee into custody (or ticket, etc)

As usual learn the laws that apply to you in your state.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:05:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 8:06:58 PM EDT by XDBACKUPGUN]
ETA: Nevermind


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