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Posted: 7/20/2008 6:39:55 AM EDT
If you want some entertainment, visit the Idaho Statesman's blog on this issue. Yes, there are a lot of liberals in Boise.

M-S


OpenCarry.org members visited Zoo Boise to make a point

Idaho Statues on firearms
BY ANNA WEBB - awebb@idahostatesman.com
Edition Date: 07/20/08


When you go to the zoo, you expect to see monkeys, ducks in a pond. You don't usually expect to see visitors with handguns.

But you would have, had you visited Zoo Boise Saturday morning.

About 10 members of the local chapter of OpenCarry.org, a national group that advocates for citizens' rights to openly carry handguns, met there.

After a little confusion at the front desk about whether it's legal to bring an unconcealed handgun into the zoo - it is - the group bought tickets and sauntered through the front gates like all the other visitors.

That they were no different from all the other visitors was the point the group members were trying to make.

"Coming to the zoo was something we could do together, like any family would," said Carol Schultz of Nampa. She is never without her handgun and holds her holster in place with a heart-studded belt.

Schultz has gone through the steps, the training and the background check to qualify for a concealed weapons permit. Though her holster is now an integral part of her wardrobe, she can still imagine an unarmed world.

"In an ideal society, one of peace and people taking control of their own lives, ideally, you wouldn't need a gun," she said.

Unfortunately, said fellow OpenCarry.org member Blaine Tewell, of Eagle, the world is a dangerous place of random shootings in malls, even churches.

The former military man, who's in the process of getting a concealed weapons permit, openly carries for now. He's not a vigilante and has no desire to chase down criminals. He just wants to be safe, he said.

"When seconds count, police are still minutes away," he said.

Neither Schultz nor Tewell has ever had to use a gun in self-defense. They have been asked to leave private property, though, such as restaurants and stores where their guns made people nervous.

Lt. Alan Cavener of the Boise Police Department said reason must play a part in the open carrying of guns.

"We support peoples' constitutional rights, but we also want to ensure public safety. People need to use common sense about where they choose to bring a firearm," Cavener said.

Zoo visitor Laura Greaves, from Salem, Ore., questioned whether it was really necessary for someone besides a staffer working closely with dangerous animals to carry a gun at the zoo - legality aside. Saturday morning, the most ominous threats appeared to be runaway strollers and kids throwing tantrums.

"Legal and appropriate are two different things," said another visitor, Boisean Alex Lundgren.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:47:17 AM EDT


"When seconds count, police are still minutes away,"


Indeed. I'll have to quote that one. In the outside world, I mean - not just in this thread.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:53:58 AM EDT
When seconds count, police are still minutes away
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:57:21 AM EDT
This the comment that bothered me.

Lt. Alan Cavener of the Boise Police Department said reason must play a part in the open carrying of guns.

"We support peoples' constitutional rights, but we also want to ensure public safety. People need to use common sense about where they choose to bring a firearm," Cavener said.

Anywhere there are people gathered bad shit can happen.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:58:18 AM EDT
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:00:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:03:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.



If the sight of a gun throws them in to hysterical hissy-fits, what are we supposed to do?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:04:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=734162


Same topic, different article. Not a dupe in the true sense.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:05:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 7:05:14 AM EDT by luckypunk]
not duping you, just posting the vid
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:08:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By luckypunk:
not duping you, just posting the vid


Sorry. Didn't see the vid. Thanks for posting.

M-S
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:09:38 AM EDT
Good thing you can carry, never know when a tiger might attack.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/08/12/tiger.attack.ap/
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:12:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


God forbid folks try to exercise their rights.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:13:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 7:13:28 AM EDT by Xyster7212]

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


How is walking through the zoo "fear and confrontation"? I think the positive effect of lots of peaceful OC'ers walking through a public place outweighs any negative effects from a nervous soccer mom. Do you get this upset about people openly exercising 1st amendment rights?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:45:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


FedDC posts against freedom and liberty, YET AGAIN!!!

Big surprise there.

Yep.

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:52:57 AM EDT
So you are gay. So what? Do you have to go have a parade down main street to tell everyone? Lame.

So you can OC. So what? Do you have to go have a parade at the zoo to tell everyone? Lame.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:59:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


I agree, same thing for cops, they really need their firearms VERY little and keeping them locked up in the trunk or hidden might make citizens less fearful of them. Wearing professional looking outfits [ties, dress slacks, polished shoes/boots, button down pressed shirts would also make them less JBTish in their appearances and that might make for better PR within the community.

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:09:03 AM EDT
God, I love Idaho. Of the 2 people that were against the idea (probably the only two the mistakesman could find) one wasn't even from here.

Yeah I see an OC here every now and then, I personally don't like to advertise like that but it's their right and I say God bless 'em. I actually feel a little safer with folks like that around.

Thing about Boise is it's a liberal island in a sea of red-state republicans and it's slowly getting worse. It's like Portland lite.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:37:51 AM EDT
I see CC as an advantage for me, but I'm fine with others who OC. I'd be willing to bet any thugs in the vicinity of the OCers will go elsewhere to create trouble. Any of the whiners at the park, for example, who "choose" to get upset can do so. Not my problem. They will not help with 2A rights in any case.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:45:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


While I think that concealed carry is more practical than OC, I am glad that there are people who are willing to do this. Awareness is part of education. People fear what they do not know and understand. No matter how much you educate people through other means, direct exposure will eventually be required. The first time they see someone open carry, they may be afraid, but the hundredth time they see someone OC, they will probably hardly care.

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:50:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Number21:

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


While I think that concealed carry is more practical than OC, I am glad that there are people who are willing to do this. Awareness is part of education. People fear what they do not know and understand. No matter how much you educate people through other means, direct exposure will eventually be required. The first time they see someone open carry, they may be afraid, but the hundredth time they see someone OC, they will probably hardly care.



Exactly. AND, if the news reports it enough, they will get tired of it and it will become a part of everyday life.

I don't want to openly carry necessarily, I just want to be able to carry comfortably and not worry about whether I am accidentally showing or not. Like carrying in the back and not being able to squat down for fear of my shirt lifting up.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:51:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Number21:

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


While I think that concealed carry is more practical than OC, I am glad that there are people who are willing to do this. Awareness is part of education. People fear what they do not know and understand. No matter how much you educate people through other means, direct exposure will eventually be required. The first time they see someone open carry, they may be afraid, but the hundredth time they see someone OC, they will probably hardly care.



Yes, desensitization. A successful treatment for phobias.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:59:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 9:00:41 AM EDT by struckzb]
Why isn't a zoo a reasonable place to carry. It was about a year back a couple tiger escaped from a Zoo, I think in San Diego and mauled a few kids.

ETA: and the police showed up (obviously too late) and had to shoot the tiger anyway.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:03:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


No it isn't. The best way to de-sensitize people to their illogical fear of inanimate objects is to expose them to those objects more and more. More people are killed via car accident than gun accident yet most people don't fear cars. Why is this, I wonder? Because people are exposed to cars every day.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:05:44 AM EDT
The relative merits of open carrying in public venues have been debated on here many times. The conclusion has always been the same, pretty much: Individuals who open carry are the same as the individuals who have loud pipes on their motorcycles--attention whores.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:06:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


"FedDC"

LOL. This is my shocked face:
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:09:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


Your predictability is refreshing.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:18:26 AM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By struckzb:
Why isn't a zoo a reasonable place to carry. It was about a year back a couple tiger escaped from a Zoo, I think in San Diego and mauled a few kids.

ETA: and the police showed up (obviously too late) and had to shoot the tiger anyway.


In 2000 a tiger escaped from the Boise Zoo and mauled some lady, she wasn't carrying, open or otherwise.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:30:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


you're an embarrassment to gun owners by disrespecting those who Open carry. Which was the prime method of carrying a firearm.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:35:14 AM EDT
I know I'm preaching to the choir. But I agree that OC does not have much of an advantage to Concealed carrying. It might deter some, but those who are determined to commit the crime will now know who to shoot first. Still, good for them for exercising their rights.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:35:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SMWeinbrenner:

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


you're an embarrassment to gun owners by disrespecting those who Open carry. Which was the prime method of carrying a firearm.


You can't say that, he's in IRAQ!!!
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:36:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


Ah, I just love how non-judgemental people are on this site.

I choose to OC, so according to you, that makes me a retard.

Wow.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:36:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By struckzb:
I know I'm preaching to the choir. But I agree that OC does not have much of an advantage to Concealed carrying. It might deter some, but those who are determined to commit the crime will now know who to shoot first. Still, good for them for exercising their rights.


Having done both extensively, the advantage is personal comfort. Plain and simple.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:40:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By struckzb:
I know I'm preaching to the choir. But I agree that OC does not have much of an advantage to Concealed carrying. It might deter some, but those who are determined to commit the crime will now know who to shoot first. Still, good for them for exercising their rights.


Having done both extensively, the advantage is personal comfort. Plain and simple.


Yeah, its just much easier to carry all day with a proper gun belt and holster than any concealed pattern holster.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:41:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.
+

Um, disagree. TOTALLY. It has nothing to do with trying to scare people, but to show them there is nothing TO be scared of. Kinda how I teach my kids not to be afraid to jump in the pool or not ot be afraid of the dark.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:42:58 AM EDT
I can see that, the weapon would be a lot more assessable. The only time I've open carried was in the woods hiking in remote locations. Washington has a funny law stating you can OC but if someone feels threatened you're in big trouble. Threatened can mean so many things...
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:43:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By struckzb:
I know I'm preaching to the choir. But I agree that OC does not have much of an advantage to Concealed carrying. It might deter some, but those who are determined to commit the crime will now know who to shoot first. Still, good for them for exercising their rights.


Having done both extensively, the advantage is personal comfort. Plain and simple.


Yeah, its just much easier to carry all day with a proper gun belt and holster than any concealed pattern holster.


All these folks will argue about tactics till the cows come home... I just don't want a piece of metal jabbing me in my side.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:47:32 AM EDT
Just out of curiosity, what do those who OC here think of the guy with the tactical leg holster?
Do any of you use a similar carry rig for OC?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:50:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


FedDC posts against freedom and liberty, YET AGAIN!!!

Big surprise there.

Yep.




+1

it is getting old.


Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:51:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By justsayin:
Just out of curiosity, what do those who OC here think of the guy with the tactical leg holster?
Do any of you use a similar carry rig for OC?


The one guy who had a leg holster had a Ruger in it. I just figured he got what he thought was cool. This was in Arizona...

I carry in a strong side belt slide or pancake holster when I do open carry.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 12:24:33 PM EDT
I think a tactical holster draws too much attention...but that's just my opinion.

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 12:29:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


...and you're an embarrassment to the Founding Fathers, law enforcement and gun owners alike. So I guess we're even.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 7:58:46 PM EDT
Zoo's are dangerous places.

NY Times Story

Capital's Confidence Is Jolted by Shooting At the National Zoo

By STEVEN A. HOLMES
Published: April 26, 2000

The shooting of seven youths outside the gates of the National Zoo, one of Washington's top tourist attractions, has jolted the sense of self-confidence that the city built with a new mayor, a budget surplus and reduced crime.

The shooting on Monday was an uncommon event in the exclusive Woodley Park neighborhood of Northwest Washington, a residential area frequented by tour groups, seemingly distant from the city's often-troubled core.

Tonight the police arrested a 16-year-old in connection with the shootings and announced that he would be charged as an adult. The teenager, who was arrested in his home in Northeast Washington, did not resist, the police said, but was found hiding in the basement.

Speaking of the shooting, Mayor Anthony Williams said today, ''It's a tragedy that this could happen at a national landmark and a site that is visited by families and children, a site where we welcome all American citizens and visitors to our great city.''

The police said the young gunman had been across the street from the zoo's west gate when he opened fire into a crowd leaving the park at its 6 p.m. closing time.

The gunfire wounded several youths 11 to 16 years of age, including an 11-year-old boy who was struck in the head. He is in critical condition on life-support systems.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:06:18 PM EDT
We support peoples' constitutional rights, but we also want to ensure public safety. People need to use common sense about where they choose to bring a firearm, negro, women, homosexual, white guy, newspaper, laptop computer, library card," Cavener said.

I think my point is clear, and hopefully wasted on the majority.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:12:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


I agree, same thing for cops, they really need their firearms VERY little and keeping them locked up in the trunk or hidden might make citizens less fearful of them. Wearing professional looking outfits [ties, dress slacks, polished shoes/boots, button down pressed shirts would also make them less JBTish in their appearances and that might make for better PR within the community.



Good point. +1
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:17:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedDC:
Scare a bunch of soccer moms with their kids...that's a great way to get them on your side!

Education via fear and confrontation is ludicrous.

If the OC retards had any idea how ridiculous they look OCing....it is an embarrassment to responsible gun owners.


What to you looks ridiculous about someone with a handgun strapped to thier hip?
Di you think cops look silly with a gun on their hip?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:23:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
So you are gay. So what? Do you have to go have a parade down main street to tell everyone? Lame.

So you can OC. So what? Do you have to go have a parade at the zoo to tell everyone? Lame.


They did not have a parade.
They went to the zoo.

How lame of you to call them lame.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Freeside:
The relative merits of open carrying in public venues have been debated on here many times. The conclusion has always been the same, pretty much: Individuals who open carry are the same as the individuals who have loud pipes on their motorcycles--attention whores.


One is legal, one is not.
I doubt the people who are open carrying are looking for attention.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:17:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By struckzb:
Why isn't a zoo a reasonable place to carry. It was about a year back a couple tiger escaped from a Zoo, I think in San Diego and mauled a few kids.

ETA: and the police showed up (obviously too late) and had to shoot the tiger anyway.


The common sense overwhelms in this one. (Not that it matters) San Francisco not San Diego, and last time I checked, very few people open carry tiger grade pistols.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:24:25 PM EDT
Except in rare cases, open carry is much more about an adolescent need to feel "special" than a viable political tactic. It invariably hurts us more than helps us politically.

You have the right to shove it in the fence-sitter's faces...that doesn't necessarily mean you should.


Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:32:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Midnight-Sniper:
Yes, there are a lot of liberals in Boise.



and illegals, and gangs.
Thank CA
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 4:36:13 PM EDT
It's funny so see "gun owners" on a gun website attack open carry, Is it practical? Usually not - usually concealed carry is a better method in my opinion. Is it a Constitutional right? Yes. Only those who fear the exercise of individual liberty would so vigorously attack a known right. Some here secretly (or openly) hate freedom - they feel warm and fuzzy at the thought of gubment keeping them safe (utopian dream at best).
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