I dont know about the rest of you But I am sick of getting F*#@&D at the gas pump when the fuel companies are reporting record profits yet again. if crude prices are up 12% why are profits up 135% ? we are getting gouged. and increased fuel costs are driving up comsumer prices for everything and costing americans thier jobs.

So i'm sending a message to the wallets of oil companies and the other industries they're invested in by  doing what dad and the majority of his generation did during the " Energy Crisis " of the mid 70's.

I'm staying home for the weekend and doing stuff  with my kids, we ain't going anywhere and we are'nt $pending one thin dime till monday .Then I'm driveing 55mph to work. we are also reduceing our electrical u$age by un plugging the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off  

back in the day that form of boycott caused a supply and financial "slinky" effect that drove government and industry NUTS!! and cost them billions of dollars. and just like that our "oil shortage "was over.  
 

Yet another example of why economic ignorance is harmful.

There's no earthly way of knowing Which direction we are going There's no knowing where we're rowing Or which way the river's flowing Is it raining? Is it snowing? Is a hurricane a-blowing? Not a speck of light is showing So the danger must be growing Are the fires of hell a-glowing? Is the grisly reaper mowing? Yes, the danger must be growing 'Cause the rowers keep on rowing And they're certainly not showing Any signs that they are slowing.

Quoted: Yet another example of why economic ignorance is harmful.

Yeah, sure but you have to admit, everytime someone farts in the middle east, the price goes up or down. The fuel markets are way more volatile than they need to be.

the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off

How does that happen

It won't matter.

The only form of protest that will do any good is the "rolling blackout" concept.

For two weeks, EVERYBODY boycotts ONE major oil company and buys only from its
competitor.   And then everybody switches back to the one that was boycotted and
moves the boycott to another designated target.    Two weeks with Exxon sucking hind tit,
followed by two weeks of lonely Shell pumps.   And two weeks for BP, and so on.  

Even that won't really work because it'll average out over a few months.

The way I see it,  the only way to solve the problem is to stop all trading in oil futures and
go to a direct sales process.   The fields pump X thousands of barrels of oil into holding
tanks and the various oil companies bid on what's in the tanks,  once a week.  It then
gets shipped to the winner's refinery and gets processed.    No bidding on next week's
production,  only what's already in the can.  

If the oil company owns its own fields and production facilities,  it should be required to
utilize its own internal capacity BEFORE bidding on oil from other sources.  

I'm very sick and tired of the fact that the oil that's being bought and sold is pretty much
priced the same no matter where it comes from.  Oil from Texas or the Gulf of Mexico
ends up costing US the same as oil from the other side of the world, even if it's much
cheaper to produce the oil from the Gulf.    That's the sound of us getting raped.

CJ

Quoted: the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off How does that happen

It's the "instant-on" thing built into TVs, in the old days you actually had to wait a few minutes for th TV to warm up before you saw the picture, now they are always warmed up and ready to go.

Quoted: the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off How does that happen

That's true, the capacitors and such in there are constantly drawing a small amount of electricity.  Best to unplug things that won't be used for a while or turn off a surge protector if applicable.

Quoted: Yet another example of why economic ignorance is harmful.

I'm sure that the original poster is a nice guy.

But ignorance such as this about Economics 101 is causing problems throughout our society.

If people don't have a clue about Economics, they are never going to make the right decisions.

"Knowledge is Good." - Farbar

You do understand that cost of production doesn’t have anything (directly) to do with market prices don’t you? If I lucked into finding a small diamond mine on some property I owned that yielded a total of one handful of high quality diamonds my “cost” might only be a few dollars. (Digging is cheap.) But I wouldn’t think of selling them for 10% over the cost of production I would sell them for what supply and demand dictated they were worth.

Think of it like this…

The world market (for everything) is like a giant global EBay auction house. Whenever you buy anything you are essentially bidding on it. You know that at auction things can go for either far more or far less than they cost to produce (or buy originally) and that’s how gasoline is. It’s not Exxon’s fault if people bid the cost of the limited supply of gasoline through the roof.

And people are already driving less. Last night a woman I knew had several errands to run around town. She talked me into driving her in my more fuel efficient car rather than take her old gas guzzling mini van. People are restricting their driving and buying more efficient cars because of the high gas prices.

And that’s supply that’s not being used. If gas companies sold fuel at $1.00 a gallon then people would drive around burning the gas up in their big SUVs and there wouldn’t be enough to go around. Pumps would go dry and we would have shortages again.

So, please do stay home. If enough people do that then prices will fall, not because of any conspiracy BS but because the reduced demand will drive prices lower.

Quoted: I dont know about the rest of you But I am sick of getting F*#@&D at the gas pump when the fuel companies are reporting record profits yet again. if crude prices are up 12% why are profits up 135% ? we are getting gouged. and increased fuel costs are driving up comsumer prices for everything and costing americans thier jobs. So i'm sending a message to the wallets of oil companies and the other industries they're invested in by  doing what dad and the majority of his generation did during the " Energy Crisis " of the mid 70's. I'm staying home for the weekend and doing stuff  with my kids, we ain't going anywhere and we are'nt $pending one thin dime till monday .Then I'm driveing 55mph to work. we are also reduceing our electrical u$age by un plugging the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off   back in the day that form of boycott caused a supply and financial "slinky" effect that drove government and industry NUTS!! and cost them billions of dollars. and just like that our "oil shortage "was over.

I don't know about the rest of you but I am sick and "F*#$#@ING" tired of these moronic posts.

News flash for you poor ignorant soul:

Gas companies make about 10% profit per gallon of gas on average. Here in Phoenix, gas is 2.70+ a gallon at the moment. That's about a 27 cent profit on each gallon of gas. Would you rather they make a 10 cent profit and you still have to pay 2.50 a gallon or more and then they go out of business and then you have NO gas?????

You won't be saving much money if they cut their profits!

Governments make more money in the form of taxes on gasoline than oil companies do on the very product they produce.

Quoted: Quoted: the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off How does that happen It's the "instant-on" thing built into TVs, in the old days you actually had to wait a few minutes for th TV to warm up before you saw the picture, now they are always warmed up and ready to go.

It doesnt have anything to do with the set being warmed up. It has to do with the electronics that are still turned on to make the remote sensor work so then you push power the tube circuits turn on.

Many things use power while they are off. You see those AC-DC power converters, aka wall warts, use power even if the adapter isn't connected to a device. Plug one in, wait a few hours and touch it. Its probably warm even if the end isn't plugged into your MP3 player or cell phone. That warmth is the DC regulator at work keeping the capacitors charged up. Then that warmth adds to your AC bill.

Your computer does the same thing. Its off, but many of the circuits in the computer are still on (not the power hogging ones mind you). This usually includes the power supply (in standby mode) the system clock (which can run from the onboard button battery) and things like ethernet cards and sometimes the keyboard and mouse.

Is your VCR plugged in? The time flashing 12:00 on the front probably uses a few watts of power in total after you calculate the AC-DC power conversion and the standby circuits that are on in the VCR waiting to sense IR remote commands.

Same thing with digital microwave ovens, sound systems, and even freaking can openers. All using a little power when off to make our lives a little easier.

AC to DC conversion can be pretty wasteful even with the devices are off. But don't blame DC. Its really the methods of converting it and the devices using it that are the culprits.

-Foxxz

Yawn, let us know how that works out for ya, ok?

Here is a very basic overview of a few of the factors that affect the price of gas:
Price of light products (aviation gas, super, special and regular gas): Cost of purchase of a barrel of oil (on that day) + cost of transportation + cost of storage + cost of refining + cost storage of finished product + cost of disposal of coke by product + cost of pipe line + cost of tank farm storage + cost ordering + cost of trucking + cost of delivery to customer + local taxes + state taxes + federal taxes + built in profit (less than 10%).

If the price of crude and other factors was constant, so would the price of gas and the profits of the oil company. However, since all these factors can change every day, the price of gas can change every day.

So, why do the oil companies make SO much money when the price of crude goes up?
The companies buy crude every day. That crude takes between 60 and 180 days to make it to your tank. The company sets the price of light products based upon the cost for THAT day. Remember they want every division to make a profit every day. Since the gas that is going in your tank was bought 60-180 days ago, that crude was bought at a lower price. Therefore, the company makes extra money. Conversely, when the price of crude goes down, their profit goes down. Note: they still make a profit every day.

Don't forget, they are making their profit on crude, not gasoline.

Crude still only costs about $20-25 a barrel to recover.  It is selling for $70 a barrell.  That's where the profit it.

They are not trying to fuck you out of $70 a barrel, but that is what someone is willing to pay for that barrel.

Supply and demand do work.  And as posted above, it does prevent shortages.

I would expect someone with an 88 in their name to be ignorant of that fact.

TXL

That's not a boycott, it's reducing your usage, which is good.


Gas companies make an average of 8-12% profit.  
They are owned by stockholders like you and I.
Are you against those stockholders making a 8-12% profit?

Quoted: . . Governments make more money in the form of taxes on gasoline than oil companies do on the very product they produce.

Notice the govts, federal and local govts are screaming too loud about gas prices.  This rise in gas prices has a caused a record haul for Cali-fornia.  We have an 8% tax.  Ahnold has already promised the schools in increase in funding.

K88b: You as an individual can't do too much about the gasoline prices.  If the oil is not bought here, it will be shipped to somewhere where it will get the highest prices.

Quoted: Quoted: the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off How does that happen most new appliances have a standby mode. power is still hot even though the device is "off"

+1
Plasma and LCD TV's are supposedly the worst.  The manual for mine even
recommends using the slow setting to save juice.

Quoted: Here is a very basic overview of a few of the factors that affect the price of gas: Price of light products (aviation gas, super, special and regular gas): Cost of purchase of a barrel of oil (on that day) + cost of transportation + cost of storage + cost of refining + cost storage of finished product + cost of disposal of coke by product + cost of pipe line + cost of tank farm storage + cost ordering + cost of trucking + cost of delivery to customer + local taxes + state taxes + federal taxes + built in profit (less than 10%). If the price of crude and other factors was constant, so would the price of gas and the profits of the oil company. However, since all these factors can change every day, the price of gas can change every day. So, why do the oil companies make SO much money when the price of crude goes up? The companies buy crude every day. That crude takes between 60 and 180 days to make it to your tank. The company sets the price of light products based upon the cost for THAT day. Remember they want every division to make a profit every day. Since the gas that is going in your tank was bought 60-180 days ago, that crude was bought at a lower price. Therefore, the company makes extra money. Conversely, when the price of crude goes down, their profit goes down. Note: they still make a profit every day.

To me, the price of gasoline has little to do with cost and more with how much people in the USA are willing to pay.  Look at it this way, if you're selling a gun, you would want the highest amount when you sell it wouldn't you?

Well, if it makes YOU feel better, go right ahead.


but it won't change anything.

Quoted: Quoted: Here is a very basic overview of a few of the factors that affect the price of gas: Price of light products (aviation gas, super, special and regular gas): Cost of purchase of a barrel of oil (on that day) + cost of transportation + cost of storage + cost of refining + cost storage of finished product + cost of disposal of coke by product + cost of pipe line + cost of tank farm storage + cost ordering + cost of trucking + cost of delivery to customer + local taxes + state taxes + federal taxes + built in profit (less than 10%). If the price of crude and other factors was constant, so would the price of gas and the profits of the oil company. However, since all these factors can change every day, the price of gas can change every day. So, why do the oil companies make SO much money when the price of crude goes up? The companies buy crude every day. That crude takes between 60 and 180 days to make it to your tank. The company sets the price of light products based upon the cost for THAT day. Remember they want every division to make a profit every day. Since the gas that is going in your tank was bought 60-180 days ago, that crude was bought at a lower price. Therefore, the company makes extra money. Conversely, when the price of crude goes down, their profit goes down. Note: they still make a profit every day. To me, the price of gasoline has little to do with cost and more with how much people in the USA are willing to pay.  Look at it this way, if you're selling a gun, you would want the highest amount when you sell it wouldn't you?

I worked for Mobil for 8 years in light products distribution management. I can tell you there are alot of good people working very hard to keep gas at every station that needs it.

Quoted: Quoted: the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off How does that happen It's the "instant-on" thing built into TVs, in the old days you actually had to wait a few minutes for th TV to warm up before you saw the picture, now they are always warmed up and ready to go.

Damn the frig, just pop the main breaker.  That solves the electrical issue under discussion.

Well if you stay home I will just go on a extra long drive this weekend...

That is not going to do anything.

I'm not even going to respond to these moronic posts anymore.


this is what you get when economics is considered an 'elective'. If it were mandatory, then socialist democrats couldn't trick people as easily as they do now.

TxLewis
Team Member
Dirka Dirka mohammad Jihad!

Joined :: March 2001
Post Number :: 9747

TX, USA





     


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Don't forget, they are making their profit on crude, not gasoline.

Crude still only costs about $20-25 a barrel to recover. It is selling for $70 a barrell. That's where the profit it.

They are not trying to fuck you out of $70 a barrel, but that is what someone is willing to pay for that barrel.

Supply and demand do work. And as posted above, it does prevent shortages.

I would expect someone with an 88 in their name to be ignorant of that fact.

TXL






 Ofcourse K88b is not my real name , Just my company radio call sign .

Quoted: Quoted: the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off How does that happen It's the "instant-on" thing built into TVs, in the old days you actually had to wait a few minutes for th TV to warm up before you saw the picture, now they are always warmed up and ready to go.

The reason TVs used to take a while to warm up was because they had vaccuum tubes in then. Now they are transistorized. Sheesh!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: the TV wich burns up juice even when its turned off How does that happen It's the "instant-on" thing built into TVs, in the old days you actually had to wait a few minutes for th TV to warm up before you saw the picture, now they are always warmed up and ready to go. The reason TVs used to take a while to warm up was because they had vaccuum tubes in then. Now they are transistorized. Sheesh!

They say "Unplug your TV because it uses 80% of it's power when it's turned off."  This does not equate to (but peoples little brains make it do so) "A television turned off uses 80% of the power of a television that is on."

If you watch 20 hours of TV a week, that's 148 of 168 hours your TV is off - 88% of the time.  A normal TV (CRT) draws about 0.3 watts sq/in when on, and a total of about 30w (being generous here) when off.  A 30" TV is roughly 450 sq/in, thus the draw on a 30" TV is around 135w when on.

Soooooo

Power spent while on (10h) = 1350Wh (1.350kWh)
Power spent while off (148h) = 4440Wh (4.440kWh)

So this little contrived example shows our TV using a total of 5790Wh a week, 77% of that power being drawn while it's off.

Leave it on all week, your power consumption will be about 5 times higher with our example TV here.