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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/11/2006 10:09:08 PM EDT
Open Doors Don't Invite Criminals
ROBERT J. SAMPSON
March 11, 2006
Cambridge, Mass.
newyorktimes?
www.nytimes.com/2006/03/11/opinion/11sampson.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=login
LAW enforcement officials, politicians and social scientists have put forward many explanations for the astonishing drop in crime rates in America over the last decade or so, and yet we remain mystified. Studies have shown that while each of the usual suspects — a decline in crack use, aggressive policing, increased prison populations, a relatively strong economy, increased availability of abortion — has probably played some role, none has proved to be as dominant a factor as initially suggested.

Perhaps we have been overlooking something obvious — something that our implicit biases caused us not to notice. My unusual suspect is foreigners: evidence points to increased immigration as a major factor associated with the lower crime rate of the 1990's (and its recent leveling off).

Consider what sociologists call the "Latino paradox": Hispanic Americans do better on a range of various social indicators — including propensity to violence — than one would expect given their socioeconomic disadvantages. My colleagues and I have completed a study in which we examined violent acts by almost 3,000 males and females, ranging in age from 8 to 25, from 1995 to 2003. The study selected whites, blacks and Hispanics (primarily Mexican-Americans) from 180 Chicago neighborhoods ranging from highly segregated to very integrated. We also analyzed data from police records, the Census and a separate survey of more than 8,000 Chicago residents who were asked about the characteristics of their neighborhoods.

Surprisingly, we found a significantly lower rate of violence among Mexican-Americans than among blacks and whites. A major reason is that more than a quarter of all those of Mexican descent were born abroad and more than half lived in neighborhoods where the majority of residents were also Mexican. Indeed, the first-generation immigrants (those born outside the United States) in our study were 45 percent less likely to commit violence than were third-generation Americans, adjusting for family and neighborhood background. Second-generation immigrants were 22 percent less likely to commit violence than the third generation.

This "protective" pattern among immigrants holds true for non-Hispanic whites and blacks as well. Our study further showed that living in a neighborhood of concentrated immigration is directly associated with lower violence (again, after taking into account a host of factors, including poverty and an individual's immigrant status).

Now consider that immigration to the United States rose sharply in the 1990's, especially from Mexico and especially to immigrant enclaves in large cities. Overall, the foreign-born population increased by more than 50 percent in 10 years, to 31 million people in 2000. A report by the Pew Hispanic Center found that immigration grew most significantly in the middle of the 90's and hit its peak at the end of the decade, when the national homicide rate plunged to levels not seen since the 1960's. Immigrant flows have receded since 2001, while the national homicide rate leveled off and seems now to be creeping up.

The emerging story goes against the grain of popular stereotypes. Among the public, policymakers and even academics, a common expectation is that a concentration of immigrants and an influx of foreigners drive up crime rates, because of the assumed propensities of these groups to commit crimes and settle in poor, presumably disorganized communities. This belief is so pervasive, studies show, that the concentration of Latinos in a neighborhood strongly predicts perceptions of disorder no matter what the actual amount of crime and disorder.

Yet our study found that immigrants appear in general to be less violent than people born in America, particularly when they live in neighborhoods with high numbers of other immigrants. We are thus witnessing a different pattern from early 20th-century America, when growth in immigration from Europe was linked with increasing crime and formed a building block for what became known as "social disorganization" theory.

In today's world, then, it is no longer tenable to assume that immigration automatically leads to chaos and crime. New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities. Border cities like El Paso and San Diego have made similar gains against crime. Perhaps the lesson is that if we want to continue to crack down on crime, closing the nation's doors is not the answer.

Robert J. Sampson is a professor of sociology at Harvard.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:12:01 PM EDT
Oh no... guess the here will be bitching
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:13:04 PM EDT
the people who are having succss in mexico are not the ones who are leaving and comming here.

we're gettng all the losers who couldnt hack it in mexico
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:15:15 PM EDT

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:16:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 10:17:07 PM EDT by PreMed_Gunner]

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
the people who are having succss in mexico are not the ones who are leaving and comming here.

we're gettng all the losers who couldnt hack it in mexico



No, we are getting the people from the northern provinces of Mexico who do to the high level of racism against them, cannot succeed there. In Mexico, the more native-american blood in you, the lower class level you are pretty much.

Think about it, all of the rich Mexicans pretty much look like any average white guy.

Also, most Mexicans I know are quick to claim their "Spanish" heritage over their native American heritage, unless they are those "reconquista"/Aztlan types.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:18:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Yep. Humorous enough, a lot of the big cities with AWB have actually been doing pretty well... of course, that is probably do to the fact that the big cities got big federal grants increasing the number of officers on the street from the '94 Crime bill.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:21:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



I dunno, but even if it is, it took "a policeman on every corner" to get it that way.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:24:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Key word is "safest city" meaning not as bad as places like LA, Detroit or Chicago.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:25:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



I dunno, but even if it is, it took "a policeman on every corner" to get it that way.




This "protective" pattern among immigrants holds true for non-Hispanic whites and blacks as well. Our study further showed that living in a neighborhood of concentrated immigration is directly associated with lower violence.


I don't believe a word of this
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:31:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:31:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 10:36:28 PM EDT by bastiat]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Key word is "safest city" meaning not as bad as places like LA, Detroit or Chicago.



"Sure, it's a dangerous shithole, but not as dangerous a shithole as those other places!" (No offense to NY city residents on board)

I guess this professor will be inviting some of those nice boys from MS-13 over for tea and crumpets soon. Maybe even to stay the night in his house!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:35:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 10:35:58 PM EDT by azhammer]
Here in AZ 25% of prisoners are non citizens And 90% of those are illegal immigrants...
HHMMMMMM......


Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:40:38 PM EDT
Here are a few comments about our "peaceful" friends and neighbors from the south

Task force targets cross-border violence
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
March 10, 2006
www.washtimes.com/national/20060309-113145-3198r.htm
Federal, state and local law-enforcement agents have teamed up along the Texas-Mexico border to target rising violence spreading into the United States from a deadly turf war between drug cartels in Nuevo Laredo.
Since January, the Border Enforcement and Security Task Force (BEST) has arrested 31 cartel members; seized dynamite, grenades and bombs in Laredo, Texas; and taken possession of weapons, drugs and $1 million in cash.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:41:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By azhammer:
Here in AZ 25% of prisoners are non citizens And 90% of those are illegal immigrants...
HHMMMMMM......



Yup, but the CITY is safe due to the large numbers of illegals
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:46:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Robert J. Sampson is a professor of sociology at Harvard.




Speaks for itself.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:50:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Key word is "safest city" meaning not as bad as places like LA, Detroit or Chicago.



"Sure, it's a dangerous shithole, but not as dangerous a shithole as those other places!" (No offense to NY city residents on board)

I guess this professor will be inviting some of those nice boys from MS-13 over for tea and crumpets soon. Maybe even to stay the night in his house!



Actually, IIRC, the murder rate per capita in big cities is less than the murder rate per capita statewide in many cases; excluding DC and Detroit and other hubs of poor, lazy Americans.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 10:51:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim84K10:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Robert J. Sampson is a professor of sociology at Harvard.



Speaks for itself.



They make a great team, harvard and the new york times
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:00:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 11:08:04 PM EDT by bastiat]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Key word is "safest city" meaning not as bad as places like LA, Detroit or Chicago.



"Sure, it's a dangerous shithole, but not as dangerous a shithole as those other places!" (No offense to NY city residents on board)

I guess this professor will be inviting some of those nice boys from MS-13 over for tea and crumpets soon. Maybe even to stay the night in his house!



Actually, IIRC, the murder rate per capita in big cities is less than the murder rate per capita statewide in many cases; excluding DC and Detroit and other hubs of poor, lazy Americans.




Man, you post some bizarre stuff.

First, the murder rate for cities is just about always higher than murder rates for rural areas. So if you compare murder rates for the cities with the murder rate for the state minus the cities, the cities will always come out on top.

Of course, you added the caveat of excluding 'hubs of poor, lazy Americans', which pretty much describes every large city. So I'm not sure why you bothered making your post at all, since you entire post is one big exception to your point.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:18:12 PM EDT

Yet our study found that immigrants appear in general to be less violent than people born in America, particularly when they live in neighborhoods with high numbers of other immigrants.


Since they're from Harvard, it probably wouldn't occur to them that:
(1) crime tends to be an intramural affair; people mainly prey on their own
(2) crime victimization statistics are based on what's reported to the police
(3) and "immigrants" are considerably less likely than the average citizen to go to the cops


Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:21:59 PM EDT
I hear a BUNCH of bs from yale AND harvard, WTF is wrong with these people?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:29:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Certainly among the safer major cities.
www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.html
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:34:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Certainly among the safer major cities.
www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.html



And note the time frame - only after giuliani cracked down on crime.

A crackdown, no doubt, that this harvard professor probably would have decried at the time.

In fact, that would be a fun search - to see if this guy said anything about giuliani's approach to NY crime, the result of which he now uses to bolster his position.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:35:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



Certainly among the safer major cities.
www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.html



I guess it goes to prove that "There are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:44:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Open Doors Don't Invite Criminals
ROBERT J. SAMPSON
March 11, 2006
Cambridge, Mass.
newyorktimes?
www.nytimes.com/2006/03/11/opinion/11sampson.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=login

Blah Blah Blah...

a decline in crack use,


Blah Blah Blah..




Hmm... Sounds interesting....perhaps the Professor should be smoking a bit less crack.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:49:12 PM EDT
That story is a crock of shit. The evening news and the prison population in Phoenix says it's just the opposite.

Filthy illegals are resposible for the majority of violent crimes in AZ.

It came from the New York Times...need I say more?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:10:21 AM EDT
Well heck, this theory obviously explains the extremely low crime rate in Miami! It's due to all the illegeal immigrants!

Wait a minute.....

Miami has one of the highest crime rates in the nation! But it's full of both legal and illegal immigrants... I'm confused now.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:40:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

New York is a magnet for immigration, yet it has for a decade ranked as one of America's safest cities.


Is this true?



I dunno, but even if it is, it took "a policeman on every corner" to get it that way.



+44 shots and a plunger in the ass.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:42:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
Oh no... guess the here will be bitching



Well, the resident Libtard is already here, why not?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:44:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mmx1:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
Oh no... guess the here will be bitching



Well, the resident Libtard is already here, why not?



oh snap!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:50:01 AM EDT
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