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Posted: 4/20/2016 10:47:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 10:49:35 PM EDT by exponentialpi]
Get your hope and change.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp/2016/04/20/one-of-the-nations-largest-pension-funds-could-soon-cut-benefits-for-retirees/



More than a quarter of a million active and retired truckers and their families could soon see their pension benefits severely cut — even though their pension fund is still years away from running out of money.

Within the next few weeks, the Treasury Department is expected to announce a crucial decision on whether it will approve reductions to one of the country’s largest multi-employer pension plans.


The potential cuts are possible under legislation passed by Congress in 2014 that for the first time allowed financially distressed multi-employer plans to reduce benefits for retirees if it would improve the solvency of the fund. The law weakened federal protections that for more than 40 years shielded one of the last remaining pillars that workers could rely on for financial security in retirement.

...

Like many other pension plans, the Central States Pension Fund suffered heavy investment losses during the financial crisis that cut into the pool of money available to pay out benefits. While the stock market has recovered since then, the improvements were not enough to make up for the shortfall that grew as the number of companies contributing to the plan declined and the number of people retiring and collecting benefits increased, said Thomas Nyhan, executive director of the Central States Pension Fund.

That imbalance left the fund paying out $3.46 in pension benefits for every $1 it received from employers. The shortfall has resulted in the fund paying out $2 billion more in benefits than it receives in employer contributions each year.
...

If Treasury approves the fund’s proposal, then retirees could see their paychecks shrink by July 1. The move would give the fund at least a 50 percent chance of lasting for another 30 years as opposed to running out of cash in 10 years if no changes are made, Nyhan said. A decision is expected by May 7.

But opponents say there may be some negative consequences if the cuts are approved.

“It’s going to open the floodgates for other cuts,” said Friedman of the Pension Rights Center.

Out of the 10 million workers and retirees covered by multi-employer pension plans, roughly 1 million people are in plans that could run out of money over the next two decades, according to estimates from the PBGC. Already, three other pension plans that pay benefits to truck drivers and ironworkers have applied to the Treasury to have their pension benefits reduced.

The proposal introduced in September by Central States would cut benefits for current workers and retirees by 23 percent on average, though exact amounts would vary based on people’s age, health status and where they worked.

For many retirees, the losses may be much steeper.

Ava Miller, 64, and her husband, Ed Northrup, 68, could see their combined monthly pension income cut to about $3,000 from the nearly $7,000 they receive now, according to a letter they received from Central States in October.

If the cuts go through, Miller, who worked as a dispatcher in Flint, Mich., said they will need to dip into their savings to help cover their $1,300 mortgage payment, heating bills and trips to visit her 84-year old mother. Northrup, a retired car hauler, has started applying for truck driving jobs that could supplement their potentially smaller pension payments.

What makes the cuts more painful, Miller said, is that she took pay cuts so that the company could continue making contributions to the pension.

“I did everything I was supposed to,” Miller said, adding that she and her husband made extra payments on their car loan to cut down on their monthly bills after they received letters in October informing them of the potential cuts.
...

Last week, hundreds of retirees, workers and family members from Michigan, Wisconsin, Texas and other states gathered on the lawn in front of the Capitol to rally against the cuts. They waved signs and periodically broke into chants of “No cuts.”

A steady stream of lawmakers, including Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D- Mass.), Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.), walked on to a stage to speak against the legislation and to push for an alternative solution.
...
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Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:52:12 PM EDT
And so, it begins.....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:52:39 PM EDT
I feel bad for the retirees
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:56:57 PM EDT
Wonder why they never used the word "union" in that article?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:57:09 PM EDT
The entire concept of retirement is a relatively recent, .gov spawned utopian dream that is destined to fail.




Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:57:57 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By walttx:
I feel bad for the retirees
View Quote
Then cut them a check.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:58:22 PM EDT
Relying on one pension (retirement) fund is unsound.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 10:59:14 PM EDT
YES WE CAN!
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:00:10 PM EDT
And the reset button is going to be pushed yet again to keep the Ponzi Scheme afloat for a little longer until the next rule change.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:03:36 PM EDT
First this, then they will come after 401s and IRAs.. for your own good of course...
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:06:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By highstepper:
And so, it begins continues.....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote
FIFY
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:07:19 PM EDT
Unions
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:09:15 PM EDT
But not State pensions. Yet.

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:10:32 PM EDT
The Obama Inflation is already cutting benefits. On the other hand, it benefits organizations that are Democrat pets.

It is time to make the Democrat Party pay for the inflation it has caused.

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:12:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nightstalker:
But not State pensions. Yet.

View Quote

They tried here. Then the state supreme court overturned it. Now the program is severely underfunded.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:43:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By walttx:
I feel bad for the retirees
View Quote

On one hand I kinda do as well, but on the other: Pension is a big f'n Ponzi scheme just like SS. If your dumb enough to count on that and are expecting more saps to come along behind you to pay for your retirement like you did for the people before you, well... You're rolling the dice
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:51:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 11:54:15 PM EDT by GarandM1]
Ava Miller is part of the biggest reason Flint, Michigan has lead in its water. Thanks to her generous public union pension, the city had to fire up the old treatment plant in order to save money.

ETA: I would also like to point out that my wife and I work four jobs between us both, and we don't come close to making $7,000.00 per month. Paying retirees that much is what environmentalists like to call "unsustainable".
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:52:28 PM EDT
So Wall Street takes huge risks with BS, congress allows it, and the little guy gets the shaft.
Ain't America Great!
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:52:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 11:54:39 PM EDT by Ibn_Huq]
If that is the Teamsters.............oh well


Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:54:13 PM EDT
It's about bettering the lives of illegals and non working poor




Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By highstepper:
And so, it begins.....

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 11:57:43 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTM1:
So Wall Street takes huge risks with BS, congress allows it, and the little guy gets the shaft.
Ain't America Great!
View Quote

No, union members who demanded exorbitant pensions far in excess of what the market could deliver, and who up until 2014 were protected from the laws of economics by a friendly Congress, are now discovering There Is No Free Lunch.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:01:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:10:37 AM EDT


Don't worry, the Federal government will make up the shortfall.

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:11:19 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SkyFive:


Don't worry, the Federal government will make up the shortfall.

View Quote

That's what the unions are hoping for.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:23:06 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
First this, then they will come after 401s and IRAs.. for your own good of course...
View Quote
And the military pensions.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 12:49:30 AM EDT
Oregon was able to make some changes to the PERS system. When they first made the changes I lost half of my retirement. The nasty UNION took them to court and I got back half of that...so I only ended up short one quarter of my retirement and got to work an extra 4 years. I also got a bill (funds taken out of my account) for the lawyers so my account was reduced again.

The bottom line in Oregon is that they can not take away what you have already earned, but they can change the rules from this point forward. In my case I could not add my funds to my Tier 1 account and that really hurt in the long run.

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 3:32:09 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PewPewPew1212:

On one hand I kinda do as well, but on the other: Pension is a big f'n Ponzi scheme just like SS. If your dumb enough to count on that and are expecting more saps to come along behind you to pay for your retirement like you did for the people before you, well... You're rolling the dice
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Originally Posted By PewPewPew1212:
Originally Posted By walttx:
I feel bad for the retirees

On one hand I kinda do as well, but on the other: Pension is a big f'n Ponzi scheme just like SS. If your dumb enough to count on that and are expecting more saps to come along behind you to pay for your retirement like you did for the people before you, well... You're rolling the dice

Not if it's properly managed.

Remember the corporate raiders of the 80s?

The were primarily after the pension funds. Funds that had been paid into for decades and were stable. Funds that were so stable it would nearly impossible to make them insolvent. Why? Because the principle was never at risk and the interest was all that was required to make the payments.

Had SS been handled in this fashion it would be a great good (despite being something that should not be the in the government's purview)
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 3:43:37 AM EDT
They make 7K a month in retirement? Damn I'm living wrong.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 4:07:16 AM EDT
So.. they complain about lower benefits... how do they think people would feel with zero benefits?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:29:33 AM EDT
You meant to tell me their Union brothers and the fucking mafia stole all the fucking money?


Nobody saw this coming.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:31:18 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
The entire concept of retirement is a relatively recent, .gov spawned utopian dream that is destined to fail.








View Quote

+1
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:32:57 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MCSquared:
Remember the corporate raiders of the 80s?
View Quote


Remember the Teamsters and their relationship with the mafia?





.......International Brotherhood of Dindu Workers
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:33:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CTM1:
So Wall Street takes huge risks with BS, congress allows it, and the little guy gets the shaft.
Ain't America Great!
View Quote




Holy shit, are you ever in the wrong place! Your fellow travelers are over at Democratic Underground.

Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:38:46 AM EDT
Wait until they pull this truck with social security. And they will.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:45:20 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By R2point0:
Wonder why they never used the word "union" in that article?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote



Yep, over the next 20 years there are going to be a lot of people on pensions that are going to be forced back into the job market. The police for the city I used to live in negotiated such ridiculous pension increases through union leverage that now the pension fund is paying out more in retiree benefits than the city pays in wages and benefits to existing employees.

The pension fund is already paying out benefits at a higher rate than its earning at.

Of course there's a city ordinance that says the city tax payers must cover any pension shortfalls..... But how long do you think that will last when city residents see tax hikes to pay benefits to cops making $150,000.00 a year of the pension when they retired 20 years ago.

It's unsustainable.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:48:12 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By walttx:
I feel bad for the retirees
View Quote

+1
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:50:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:

+1
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
The entire concept of retirement is a relatively recent, .gov spawned utopian dream that is destined to fail.









+1


That depends entirely on what you choose to do with your life during your working years.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:52:40 AM EDT
Man that sucks big time.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 7:53:24 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:

+1
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mnvwguy02:
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
The entire concept of retirement is a relatively recent, .gov spawned utopian dream that is destined to fail.









+1


This.

I used to do retirement planning as a financial adviser, and before that I did estate planning as an attorney. The coming generational upheavals are starting to be felt. People are living so much longer these days, it is frightening -- in terms of running out of their retirement money before they die, and racking up huge medical bills on Medicare's tab. People are retiring at 65-67 and living for another 25-30 years. Think about that; retirement lasting 60% as long as your working years. Could anyone save up enough money to live well that long? High-earners, yes, but the little guy not so much. Social Security is all most people have. Yeah, some folks would say "I'm fine, I'm 67, retired, and have $150,000 in my 401k!" Yeah, that money is not going to last you very long; that's $15,000 a year before taxes for only 10 years. What do you do after age 77?

The Boomers are the ones starting to see the writing on the wall. They are paying for kids' college on the one hand and parental nursing home/ assisted living facility care on the other. I've had a lot of conversations with people who are in their 50s-early60s who are realizing their retirement plan is "work until I drop dead."

I don't know what the fix is, other than cultural change in American society to rid ourselves of this morbid fear of death and dying. Death is a natural part of life, and happens to 100% of us. As my dad put it, "We're all dying, son. Some of us are just a little further down the train tracks than others." Do you want to be 95 years old, in a nursing home bed, pissing and shitting yourself, with various ailments making you feel like shit? Not me. I'll eat my gun first.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:00:22 AM EDT
Yeah, I'm not seeing the problem here.

Just like social security, the fund only has enough money for a few years if the money were to stop coming in. The money is slowing down. Now they have to reduce benefits.

They weren't socking away 20 years' worth of money for anyone's retirement. Most of it got spent immediately and the remainder built up a small fund, which will soon evaporate. Like any time you let the public decide what to do with funds, it's "me, me, me," and "now, now, now." They can't see beyond the tip of their nose.

If people wanted a recession-proof pension, they should have asked for a bigger fund (which would cost more in premiums).
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:01:51 AM EDT
Your gonna see more and more pensions going away. My old job is freezing the current pensions and going to offer lumpsum payouts.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:03:47 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By exponentialpi:

They tried here. Then the state supreme court overturned it. Now the program is severely underfunded.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
Originally Posted By nightstalker:
But not State pensions. Yet.


They tried here. Then the state supreme court overturned it. Now the program is severely underfunded.


Well DUH!!!! The judges would have cut their own pensions.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:04:29 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ibn_Huq:
If that is the Teamsters.............oh well


View Quote



They did that before in the late 79's or early 80's.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:04:47 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
The entire concept of retirement is a relatively recent, .gov spawned utopian dream that is destined to fail.

View Quote

Back when most people lived on a farm no one retired for obvious reasons.
You farmed til you dropped
It's a different nation with a different work force now.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:09:35 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
First this, then they will come after 401s and IRAs.. for your own good of course...
View Quote

I don't have a pension so I am very afraid of this.

I know they want that money and I have other investments but if they steal my money to pay for union pensioners and worse yet deadbeats on the dole I will probably as SRV said do something wrong.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:11:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By SCIF:
Relying on one pension (retirement) fund is unsound.
View Quote


Agreed.

Even though my pension is solvent, I still prepare for it not to be there.

As should anybody with a defined pension.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:13:24 AM EDT
The old man turns 77 today. Hes losing 850 a month .
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:13:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
First this, then they will come after 401s and IRAs.. for your own good of course...
View Quote

It helps if your IRA isn't being skimmed by the Teamsters.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:14:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LeonardC:
Oregon was able to make some changes to the PERS system. When they first made the changes I lost half of my retirement. The nasty UNION took them to court and I got back half of that...so I only ended up short one quarter of my retirement and got to work an extra 4 years. I also got a bill (funds taken out of my account) for the lawyers so my account was reduced again.

The bottom line in Oregon is that they can not take away what you have already earned, but they can change the rules from this point forward. In my case I could not add my funds to my Tier 1 account and that really hurt in the long run.

View Quote


You are lucky. My non union company took away about 75% of my pension. Cancelled any health insurance in retirement and cancelled post retirement life insurance that we were supposed to get and for which we paid for during our working years. I haven't had a raise in 11 years either. I retire in two weeks. And everyone on this forum would recognize the company too. Luckily senior management continues to get well compensated so I guess I should be happy.

I'd vote union in a minute if offered now. Just to tick off management and make all the issues public. Being non union only got me used, abused and defrauded. I have come to the belief that whether you are union or not, either the company or the union is out to screw you.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:14:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Cypher15:
So.. they complain about lower benefits... how do they think people would feel with zero benefits?
View Quote


They chose......


Poorly?
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 8:16:19 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
The entire concept of retirement is a relatively recent, .gov spawned utopian dream that is destined to fail.








View Quote

This
People have some unrealistic expectations
But, don't be shocked when people sell you a bill of goods then keep your money and give you peanuts
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