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Posted: 10/25/2006 11:21:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 11:22:00 PM EST by Airwolf]
biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061025/dew017.html?.v=63

Press Release Source: Adia Diamonds

Adia Diamonds Raising the Standard for Laboratory-Grown Diamonds
Wednesday October 25, 12:24 pm ET

BATTLE CREEK, Mich., Oct. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Technology is putting some new sparkle in the world of diamonds. Until recently, naturally occurring, mined diamonds were unchallenged in their quality and desirability. But now laboratory-created diamonds, which possess the same properties as naturals, are poised to give them a run for their money.

Adia Diamonds, a joint venture between Michigan-based Pearlman's Jewelers and Ontario-based Advanced Optical Technologies Corporation, is the first company to offer laboratory-grown colorless and fancy blue diamonds for the luxury jewelry market.

Adia diamonds are created using technologically advanced processes, replicating conditions in which naturally occurring diamonds are formed.

"Adia diamonds are superior in quality and size to any lab-created diamonds on the market today," said, 30-year industry veteran, Bill Pearlman, president of Pearlman's Jewelers. "In fact, other than not coming out of a mine, they're identical to natural diamonds in every way." Except in price. Laboratory-created Adia diamonds cost a fraction of the price of natural colored stones.

Adia diamonds are physically, chemically and optically identical to mined diamonds, yet are rare and unique, as no two Adia diamonds are the same. Each one is hand-cut in Antwerp, Belgium, to the highest quality standards and includes a gem report issued by EGL USA.

Beyond the beauty of the diamond itself, all Adia diamonds are origin- guaranteed and, therefore, absolutely conflict-free. Their production has virtually no impact on the environment unlike diamond mining practices. This makes Adia diamonds particularly appealing to looking for an environmentally friendly choice in diamonds.

"It's wonderful to see science and technology blend in a socially conscious way to express beauty," said Claudia Kretchmer, of New York's Steven Kretchmer Designs. "These diamonds are the perfect choice for designs that are forward-thinking."

Adia creates fancy blue and colorless diamonds up to one carat in size, with plans to announce larger stones in the near future. In addition, the company offers an impressive inventory of fancy yellow diamonds up to two carats in size. No other lab-grown producer can currently match these sizes, colors and shapes.

So confident in these gems, Adia offers a lifetime buy-back, lifetime trade-up and a 14-day money back return guarantee for its customers.

Adia diamonds may be purchased through the company's website at http://www.adiadiamonds.com . For more information, contact Bill Pearlman at 888-811-1529, info@adiadiamonds.com .
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:33:06 PM EST
Is it me or does the idea of a lab grown diamond take some of the romance out of it for some reason? Must be the decades of DeBeers brainwashing me.

Still, I have a feeling that this will only make the value of "real" diamonds go up since lab grown ones won't be as trendy.

Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:36:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2006 11:40:35 PM EST by smokycity]
Their stones aren't inexpensive by any means. They are pretty though.


Price: $3,420 ($3,420 per Carat)
SKU: ABY1143
Shape: Round
Weight: 1 carat
Color: Fancy Vivid Orange Yellow
Clarity: VS1
Certification: EGL # 90841006D
Dimensions: 6.39x6.36x3.83mm



Price: $5,999 ($6,450 per Carat)
SKU: ABB03
Shape: Round
Weight: 0.93 carat
Color: Fancy Intense Blue
Clarity: SI2
Certification: EGL # 90691803D
Dimensions: 6.17x6.13x4.00mm


Price: $1,505 ($2,640 per Carat)
SKU: ABE138
Shape: Round
Weight: 0.57 carat
Color: E
Clarity: SI3
Certification: EGL # 90804702D
Dimensions: 5.38x5.34x3.26mm
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:36:32 PM EST

Is it safe?
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:36:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061025/dew017.html?.v=63

Press Release Source: Adia Diamonds

Adia Diamonds Raising the Standard for Laboratory-Grown Diamonds
Wednesday October 25, 12:24 pm ET

BATTLE CREEK, Mich., Oct. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Technology is putting some new sparkle in the world of diamonds. Until recently, naturally occurring, mined diamonds were unchallenged in their quality and desirability. But now laboratory-created diamonds, which possess the same properties as naturals, are poised to give them a run for their money.

Adia Diamonds, a joint venture between Michigan-based Pearlman's Jewelers and Ontario-based Advanced Optical Technologies Corporation, is the first company to offer laboratory-grown colorless and fancy blue diamonds for the luxury jewelry market.

Adia diamonds are created using technologically advanced processes, replicating conditions in which naturally occurring diamonds are formed.

"Adia diamonds are superior in quality and size to any lab-created diamonds on the market today," said, 30-year industry veteran, Bill Pearlman, president of Pearlman's Jewelers. "In fact, other than not coming out of a mine, they're identical to natural diamonds in every way." Except in price. Laboratory-created Adia diamonds cost a fraction of the price of natural colored stones.

Adia diamonds are physically, chemically and optically identical to mined diamonds, yet are rare and unique, as no two Adia diamonds are the same. Each one is hand-cut in Antwerp, Belgium, to the highest quality standards and includes a gem report issued by EGL USA.

Beyond the beauty of the diamond itself, all Adia diamonds are origin- guaranteed and, therefore, absolutely conflict-free. Their production has virtually no impact on the environment unlike diamond mining practices. This makes Adia diamonds particularly appealing to looking for an environmentally friendly choice in diamonds.

"It's wonderful to see science and technology blend in a socially conscious way to express beauty," said Claudia Kretchmer, of New York's Steven Kretchmer Designs. "These diamonds are the perfect choice for designs that are forward-thinking."

Adia creates fancy blue and colorless diamonds up to one carat in size, with plans to announce larger stones in the near future. In addition, the company offers an impressive inventory of fancy yellow diamonds up to two carats in size. No other lab-grown producer can currently match these sizes, colors and shapes.

So confident in these gems, Adia offers a lifetime buy-back, lifetime trade-up and a 14-day money back return guarantee for its customers.

Adia diamonds may be purchased through the company's website at http://www.adiadiamonds.com . For more information, contact Bill Pearlman at 888-811-1529, info@adiadiamonds.com .


Tag.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:39:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By yekimak:
Still, I have a feeling that this will only make the value of "real" diamonds go up since lab grown ones won't be as trendy.



Unless the natural diamond is flawed, nobody will be able to tell the difference. So maybe natural flawed diamonds will become trendy. The more flawed, the better, I suppose.
Link Posted: 10/25/2006 11:59:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By yekimak:
Still, I have a feeling that this will only make the value of "real" diamonds go up since lab grown ones won't be as trendy.



Unless the natural diamond is flawed, nobody will be able to tell the difference. So maybe natural flawed diamonds will become trendy. The more flawed, the better, I suppose.


It is like anything else......(disclaimers: examples off the top of my head, I am sure there are better ones...this isn't meant to be a colt bashfest, I like their guns) say like Colt guns for example....."wild" salmon.....wood floors....YEs, there are cheaper alternatives, but these alternatives have done nothing to affect the prices of the original, and have in some ways increased demand for the originals.

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 12:13:29 AM EST
Why do I somehow get the feeling that the majority of women in the world don't really give a shit if it's real or not, just as long as the man spends a shitload of money on a trivial trinket that she can show to her friends.

Might as well pay 5 grand for a mood ring. Actually that would actually be useful, and hence, not desireable by the woman.

Actually, a diamond is sort of a mood ring. Only the reverse effect. Buying it changes her mood...

Ah, fuck it. Ain't getting married anyway. Why worry?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:17:56 AM EST
Maybe it will force DeBeers to drop the prices on diamonds to what they should be.

Diamonds are a SEMI-precious stone due to the volume that they have found in the deep mines. This can be independantly verified by buying a $5,000 diamond, then turn around and try to sell it back to ANY jeweler. You won't get $2500 for it. Depreciation on a diamond is worse then CARS.

The only cavet is the stores that allow you to "trade up" on diamonds, when you bring the old $5000 diamond in and buy an $8000 diamond. You are still spending $3000 on something that is worth less then that, and then the store can RESELL your $5000 diamond for $5000 AGAIN!!!!

Diamonds are a ripoff and not worth shit. MARKETING is the key here. I am trying to find the article that was very indepth explaining how DeBeers has controled the market and opened up new ones, such as in Japan in the last 60 years. Basically they have sold WOMEN worldwide that a Diamond = Love, hence fucking everyone on the planet.

If Diamonds are so precious, howcome there is a "Diamond Superstore" on every corner? Here in Atlanta the number of stores that sell "quality" diamonds is huge and so is each store's selection. Multiply that just by the number of big cities in the US.... That is a lot of rocks for something so "precious"
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:23:11 AM EST
Meh.

This just means Adia will be raising prices, not DeBeers lowering them.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:59:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:

Originally Posted By yekimak:
Still, I have a feeling that this will only make the value of "real" diamonds go up since lab grown ones won't be as trendy.



Unless the natural diamond is flawed, nobody will be able to tell the difference. So maybe natural flawed diamonds will become trendy. The more flawed, the better, I suppose.


It is like anything else......(disclaimers: examples off the top of my head, I am sure there are better ones...this isn't meant to be a colt bashfest, I like their guns) say like Colt guns for example....."wild" salmon.....wood floors....YEs, there are cheaper alternatives, but these alternatives have done nothing to affect the prices of the original, and have in some ways increased demand for the originals.



My point was; How would you know what you are buying? Anyone could take a manufactured diamond and label it as a flawless natural diamond.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 2:07:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By THX:
online.tvguide.com/movies/dbpix/images/6262a.jpg
Is it safe?


Link Posted: 10/26/2006 2:23:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 2:33:09 AM EST
The fact is it is all about Supply and demand AND the mentality of the people who own the technology to create these diamonds. Im sure they didnt go into the market to destroy it. So they will just produce enough to make a lot of money, but not enough to collapse the market. A fake market that was created by Debeers 100 years ago. If Real industries needed diamonds in the size or grade they would be pumping them out like candy, but since that is not the case, any person who learns how to make flawless synthetics will act just like Debeers and only make enough to make money without collapsing the market. NOt all the money will be going to debeers but the market will probably stay the same anyway.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 2:53:49 AM EST
Can someone explain why there is a large demand for new diamonds? Diamonds are not like other consumer goods that are consumed or wear out. They should be a dime a dozen since any that have been mined are still in existance somewhere. With a 50% divorce rate there has to be a huge supply of used cheap diamonds.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:02:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Why do I somehow get the feeling that the majority of women in the world don't really give a shit if it's real or not...


Because we don't.


just as long as the man spends a shitload of money on a trivial trinket that she can show to her friends.


If the hubby spends a shitload of money on a trivial trinket he'll be in a world of hurt!

Now, if he spends it on another EBR or power tools, that's entirely different.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:03:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
Why do I somehow get the feeling that the majority of women in the world don't really give a shit if it's real or not, just as long as the man spends a shitload of money on a trivial trinket that she can show to her friends.

Might as well pay 5 grand for a mood ring. Actually that would actually be useful, and hence, not desireable by the woman.

Actually, a diamond is sort of a mood ring. Only the reverse effect. Buying it changes her mood...

Ah, fuck it. Ain't getting married anyway. Why worry?


+
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:18:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By phatmax:
Maybe it will force DeBeers to drop the prices on diamonds to what they should be.

Diamonds are a SEMI-precious stone due to the volume that they have found in the deep mines. This can be independantly verified by buying a $5,000 diamond, then turn around and try to sell it back to ANY jeweler. You won't get $2500 for it. Depreciation on a diamond is worse then CARS.

The only cavet is the stores that allow you to "trade up" on diamonds, when you bring the old $5000 diamond in and buy an $8000 diamond. You are still spending $3000 on something that is worth less then that, and then the store can RESELL your $5000 diamond for $5000 AGAIN!!!!

Diamonds are a ripoff and not worth shit. MARKETING is the key here. I am trying to find the article that was very indepth explaining how DeBeers has controled the market and opened up new ones, such as in Japan in the last 60 years. Basically they have sold WOMEN worldwide that a Diamond = Love, hence fucking everyone on the planet.

If Diamonds are so precious, howcome there is a "Diamond Superstore" on every corner? Here in Atlanta the number of stores that sell "quality" diamonds is huge and so is each store's selection. Multiply that just by the number of big cities in the US.... That is a lot of rocks for something so "precious"



Where to begin?!?

If you buy a weapon from the gun store and try to sell it back to them for more than they can buy it at wholesale . . . the store will tell you to go jump in a lake.

Same for me, as a jeweler. Why on earth am I going to pay you MORE for that stone than I can get for at wholesale? If you want the retail price back, go SELL IT YOUSELF.

As for the 'Diamond Superstore', go take a look at the frozen spit that they are passing off as 'quality' diamonds. VALUE<QUALITY.

I sell quality stones. If you want quality, rather than frozen spit, then I have some things for you.

While I agree that DeBeers has controlled the market, they do so no longer. They still have influence, but not control. While Ekati has been producing some nice stones in the 1ct + range, the Australian mines that have produced the cheap crap diamonds that have driven the market for the past 10 years are beginning to run low, shutting down production.

The crappy Soviet process that these guys are using to produce stones will not have much effect onthe price of real stones because telling the difference is EASY. The flux used in the HPHT ovens is metallic, so you end up with distinctive inclusions that have a metallic gleam. Easily distinguishable from the real deal.

Do NOT attempt to school people who do this for a living on how their market works, you will get your lunch eaten.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:20:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Marte:
Can someone explain why there is a large demand for new diamonds? Diamonds are not like other consumer goods that are consumed or wear out. They should be a dime a dozen since any that have been mined are still in existance somewhere. With a 50% divorce rate there has to be a huge supply of used cheap diamonds.


Because there is very little diminishing returns on diamonds. If a man buys a steak and cooks it/eats it, he is less likely to immediately go out and buy another...but a woman who just got a 1 carat diamond will gladly take another immediately after...

And the diamond now becomes property of hers. When she dumps the guy because he will/can not give her a bigger diamond every month, she will divorce him in hopes of finding another sucker guy that can/will. To do that, she will learn some amazing skills, like sucking a golf ball through a garden hose. But as soon as the new sucker man loses his desire to shower her with diamonds, she will lose all talents and seek another divorce lawyer.

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:24:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:24:22 AM EST
Wow those are still really exspensive.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:25:20 AM EST

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:30:18 AM EST
Could someone explain to me the differences between these diamonds, natural diamonds and cubic zirconias?
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:31:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By phatmax:
Maybe it will force DeBeers to drop the prices on diamonds to what they should be.

Diamonds are a SEMI-precious stone due to the volume that they have found in the deep mines. This can be independantly verified by buying a $5,000 diamond, then turn around and try to sell it back to ANY jeweler. You won't get $2500 for it. Depreciation on a diamond is worse then CARS.

The only cavet is the stores that allow you to "trade up" on diamonds, when you bring the old $5000 diamond in and buy an $8000 diamond. You are still spending $3000 on something that is worth less then that, and then the store can RESELL your $5000 diamond for $5000 AGAIN!!!!

Diamonds are a ripoff and not worth shit. MARKETING is the key here. I am trying to find the article that was very indepth explaining how DeBeers has controled the market and opened up new ones, such as in Japan in the last 60 years. Basically they have sold WOMEN worldwide that a Diamond = Love, hence fucking everyone on the planet.

If Diamonds are so precious, howcome there is a "Diamond Superstore" on every corner? Here in Atlanta the number of stores that sell "quality" diamonds is huge and so is each store's selection. Multiply that just by the number of big cities in the US.... That is a lot of rocks for something so "precious"



Where to begin?!?

If you buy a weapon from the gun store and try to sell it back to them for more than they can buy it at wholesale . . . the store will tell you to go jump in a lake.

Same for me, as a jeweler. Why on earth am I going to pay you MORE for that stone than I can get for at wholesale? If you want the retail price back, go SELL IT YOUSELF.


As for the 'Diamond Superstore', go take a look at the frozen spit that they are passing off as 'quality' diamonds. VALUE<QUALITY.

I sell quality stones. If you want quality, rather than frozen spit, then I have some things for you.

While I agree that DeBeers has controlled the market, they do so no longer. They still have influence, but not control. While Ekati has been producing some nice stones in the 1ct + range, the Australian mines that have produced the cheap crap diamonds that have driven the market for the past 10 years are beginning to run low, shutting down production.

The crappy Soviet process that these guys are using to produce stones will not have much effect onthe price of real stones because telling the difference is EASY. The flux used in the HPHT ovens is metallic, so you end up with distinctive inclusions that have a metallic gleam. Easily distinguishable from the real deal.

Do NOT attempt to school people who do this for a living on how their market works, you will get your lunch eaten.


The difference is "mark-up"; the huge disparity between wholesale and retail. If a gun dealer makes 15% on a firearm, he's turning a tidy profit. If we told you that you could only make 15% on jewelery sales, you'd probably go buy a gun at 15% mark-up and shoot yourself.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 3:50:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tolip:
Could someone explain to me the differences between these diamonds, natural diamonds and cubic zirconias?


A diamond is a diamond. It is impossible to tell the difference between natural and synthetics unless the synthetic is "tagged" or etched. They are chemically identical. In fact, synthetic diamonds have far less impurities and internal fractures because of the control used in the manufacture. Natural diamonds are born from organic carbon in the form of coal that is subducted deep into the mantle of the earth where temperature and pressure rearranges the molecules into the tetrahederal crystal structure. Being surrounded by rock some may get inside. It then must survive the trip back to the surface, ususally in a volcano. But if the trip to the surface exposes it to air while it is still hot, it BURNS into nothing. So a diamond must cool deep in the earth to protect it from air. But in doing so, it is frequently fractured.



Cubic Zirconia is NOT anywhere near the same as diamond. First of all, it isn't tetrahederal carbon. It is not a diamond.

But a synthetic diamond is a diamond.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 4:20:01 AM EST
There are some techniques which can discriminate "natural" vs "synthetic" diamond. Most of them cost more than the diamonds being tested.


"You bring De Beers, and we'll have apartheid!"
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 4:30:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
My point was; How would you know what you are buying? Anyone could take a manufactured diamond and label it as a flawless natural diamond.


An flawless or internally flawless diamond is only flawless under a 10x loupe, or other 10x magnification. There are trace flaws, and carbon residues, visible at higher magnification, and thus, you will almost always be able to determine -- without much drama -- which is lab created.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 4:41:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:
The difference is "mark-up"; the huge disparity between wholesale and retail. If a gun dealer makes 15% on a firearm, he's turning a tidy profit. If we told you that you could only make 15% on jewelery sales, you'd probably go buy a gun at 15% mark-up and shoot yourself.

So jewelers are only allowed to make 15%? If they make more than that, they are gouging you, right?

Looks like we need another economics lesson thread.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:29:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 5:33:38 AM EST by jblachly]

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By phatmax:
Maybe it will force DeBeers to drop the prices on diamonds to what they should be.

Diamonds are a SEMI-precious stone due to the volume that they have found in the deep mines. This can be independantly verified by buying a $5,000 diamond, then turn around and try to sell it back to ANY jeweler. You won't get $2500 for it. Depreciation on a diamond is worse then CARS.

The only cavet is the stores that allow you to "trade up" on diamonds, when you bring the old $5000 diamond in and buy an $8000 diamond. You are still spending $3000 on something that is worth less then that, and then the store can RESELL your $5000 diamond for $5000 AGAIN!!!!

Diamonds are a ripoff and not worth shit. MARKETING is the key here. I am trying to find the article that was very indepth explaining how DeBeers has controled the market and opened up new ones, such as in Japan in the last 60 years. Basically they have sold WOMEN worldwide that a Diamond = Love, hence fucking everyone on the planet.

If Diamonds are so precious, howcome there is a "Diamond Superstore" on every corner? Here in Atlanta the number of stores that sell "quality" diamonds is huge and so is each store's selection. Multiply that just by the number of big cities in the US.... That is a lot of rocks for something so "precious"



Where to begin?!?

If you buy a weapon from the gun store and try to sell it back to them for more than they can buy it at wholesale . . . the store will tell you to go jump in a lake.

Same for me, as a jeweler. Why on earth am I going to pay you MORE for that stone than I can get for at wholesale? If you want the retail price back, go SELL IT YOUSELF.

As for the 'Diamond Superstore', go take a look at the frozen spit that they are passing off as 'quality' diamonds. VALUE<QUALITY.

I sell quality stones. If you want quality, rather than frozen spit, then I have some things for you.

While I agree that DeBeers has controlled the market, they do so no longer. They still have influence, but not control. While Ekati has been producing some nice stones in the 1ct + range, the Australian mines that have produced the cheap crap diamonds that have driven the market for the past 10 years are beginning to run low, shutting down production.

The crappy Soviet process that these guys are using to produce stones will not have much effect onthe price of real stones because telling the difference is EASY. The flux used in the HPHT ovens is metallic, so you end up with distinctive inclusions that have a metallic gleam. Easily distinguishable from the real deal.

Do NOT attempt to school people who do this for a living on how their market works, you will get your lunch eaten.




The fact is that the demand for diamonds was CREATED by brilliant marketing in the early 20th century. Women NEVER historically received diamond engagement rings, at least as custom, until the (forgetting the name of the NY Ad firm*) Marketing campaign in the early 20th century, bankrolled by DeBeers.

Since DeBeers at that time already controlled SUPPLY, they had to control DEMAND in order to jack up their profits, and they have successfully convinced every American young woman -- and a sizeable portion of all women in western civilization -- that a diamond engagement ring is a TIMELESS TRADITION and they DESERVE one, when it is nothing of the sort. In truth, women received diamond rings on big anniversaries, 25th or 50th for example.

I don't care how you make your living. I am a captitalist and salute you. Hell, you're probably a pretty nice guy, but don't berate other members for stating the uncomfortable truth that diamonds are in fact SEMI precious and that the demand is CONJURED.


* a little bit of googling will turn this up. I encourage everyone to read this story, esp. those in the industry who didn't know
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:36:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
My point was; How would you know what you are buying? Anyone could take a manufactured diamond and label it as a flawless natural diamond.


An flawless or internally flawless diamond is only flawless under a 10x loupe, or other 10x magnification. There are trace flaws, and carbon residues, visible at higher magnification, and thus, you will almost always be able to determine -- without much drama -- which is lab created.


But the labs CAN insert flaws into synthetics. And likewise, internal flaws in a natural can be bleached, drilled and filled.

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:44:45 AM EST
semi-precious tag
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 5:47:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 5:50:16 AM EST by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
But the labs CAN insert flaws into synthetics. And likewise, internal flaws in a natural can be bleached, drilled and filled.


Sure they CAN, and add more operating costs to an already costly operation. Possible, but not likely.

Similar probability for people modifying naturally occuring F or IF diamonds. If their methods are not extremely precise, they have just taken a very valuable, naturally occuring diamond and devalued it by some multiplier, or exponential value. Possible, but not likely.

I remain convinced that your standard, naturally occuring F/IF diamonds will be easy to spot to the trained eye.

One other point of note:

A diamond can be F/IF, D color, 2 carats and be cut so poorly as to be less valuable than a 1 carat similar diamond cut by a master.

I'm sure the labs, trying to make diamonds on the cheap, will not employ master diamond smiths.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:05:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:




The fact is that the demand for diamonds was CREATED by brilliant marketing in the early 20th century. Women NEVER historically received diamond engagement rings, at least as custom, until the (forgetting the name of the NY Ad firm*) Marketing campaign in the early 20th century, bankrolled by DeBeers.

Since DeBeers at that time already controlled SUPPLY, they had to control DEMAND in order to jack up their profits, and they have successfully convinced every American young woman -- and a sizeable portion of all women in western civilization -- that a diamond engagement ring is a TIMELESS TRADITION and they DESERVE one, when it is nothing of the sort. In truth, women received diamond rings on big anniversaries, 25th or 50th for example.

I don't care how you make your living. I am a captitalist and salute you. Hell, you're probably a pretty nice guy, but don't berate other members for stating the uncomfortable truth that diamonds are in fact SEMI precious and that the demand is CONJURED.


* a little bit of googling will turn this up. I encourage everyone to read this story, esp. those in the industry who didn't know



No doubt.

But apparently you and the person who wrote the article (which I haven't (yet) read) did not pay attention to history.

The use of marketing ploys to keep diamonds supreme in the marketplace began in the 19th century, not long after the discovery of Opal in Australia.

Opals were the Royal stone of Hungary, mined in special mines there and it took years to get a stone from the bottomo of the mine to the top (deep mine, change in pressure is the excuse).

When a young man found opal easily available in Australia and the supply hit Europe, the price of Diamond dropped . . . precipitously. Opal outstripped diamond in price and sales.

Then the smear campaign began to discredit opal, suggesting that it was an 'ill-favored stone' and bad luck. Playing on superstition this campaign was effective at re-establishing diamond supremacy in the marketplace.

It happened again during the first part of the 20th.

Since you are a capitalist, why are you railing against the expert use of marketplace manipulation to gain a profit? Diamond is NOT semi-precious for several reasons. While it is the MOST common of the gem-minerals on the earth, Gem Quality diamonds are fairly rare. The stones that those Diamond Wholesalers sell are what used to be Industrial stones, but with improvements in cutting processes they are now sold as gem-quality.

There is one reason for the supremacy of diamond that most of you do not consider. It is THE MOST DURABLE of all gemstones. Buy an Emerald. Let the wife wearit in a ring and I will be selling you a new emeral within 3-4 years minimum to replace it, because it will get damaged.

Having said all that:

No jeweler sells jewelry. Not one. He sells emotions, the way that she feels when she receives that ring/bracelet/necklace from you. This is a Luxury item, not necessary, and should be regarded in that fashion. Decry the marketplace forces all you want. People are still willing to pay for these items at the prices which they are offered at.

As for the % mark-up . . . on larger stones it has gotten thinner and thinner. The stones that are shown earlier in the thread are higher priced than I marked equivalent stones when I was selling. We also have to pay for insurance on a store which might have 2-3 million in inventory (small, easily stolen). Any piece stole must be replaced out of the profit from the rest of the store and that will get expensive quick. For the independent jeweler this is a freaking nightmare.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:13:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2006 6:18:59 AM EST by jblachly]

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By jblachly:

*snip*



No doubt.

But apparently you and the person who wrote the article (which I haven't (yet) read) did not pay attention to history.

The use of marketing ploys to keep diamonds supreme in the marketplace began in the 19th century, not long after the discovery of Opal in Australia.
...
Since you are a capitalist, why are you railing against the expert use of marketplace manipulation to gain a profit?


I wasn't railing against anything; I was simply giving a history lesson on diamonds. You must be confusing the undertone present in some of the other posts with that in mine.


eta: Despite the fact that I am a 19th-century liberal, I am compelled to point out that collusion and cartels are illegal in the United States and De Beers executives are afraid to travel to / in the US for fear of being arrested.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:25:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By 4xDawn:

Originally Posted By Airwolf:
biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061025/dew017.html?.v=63

Press Release Source: Adia Diamonds

Adia Diamonds Raising the Standard for Laboratory-Grown Diamonds
Wednesday October 25, 12:24 pm ET

a fraction of the price of natural colored stones.

Adia creates fancy blue and colorless diamonds up to one carat in size,

888-811-1529, info@adiadiamonds.com .


Tag.



Carnac says: Somebody is going to experience a pain in the wallet in the near future.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 6:55:30 AM EST
If anything, this will just give more worth to the DeBeers name.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:38:01 AM EST
i read an article about a year or so ago on synthetic diamonds. the article went into detail on how they were made. then they took a few samples to some diamond expert dude and asked him what he thought of the stones, not telling him they were fake. the guy said something about how they couldn't be real because they were completely flawless under even the most powerful magnification whereas real diamonds will have flaws in them. then they went into explaining how synthetic diamonds are great for the manufacturing industry because now they can make diamond dust for grinding/sharpening/sanding applications for next to nothing. the article also said that computer engineers are trying to build a a processor out of synthetic diamonds and that if done would make the computer so fast that i would liquify silicone processors.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:45:14 AM EST
.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 7:51:31 AM EST
Why buy her a diamond she won't last forever!
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 8:09:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By cookhj:
i read an article about a year or so ago on synthetic diamonds. the article went into detail on how they were made. then they took a few samples to some diamond expert dude and asked him what he thought of the stones, not telling him they were fake. the guy said something about how they couldn't be real because they were completely flawless under even the most powerful magnification whereas real diamonds will have flaws in them. then they went into explaining how synthetic diamonds are great for the manufacturing industry because now they can make diamond dust for grinding/sharpening/sanding applications for next to nothing. the article also said that computer engineers are trying to build a a processor out of synthetic diamonds and that if done would make the computer so fast that i would liquify silicone processors.


I think it was WIRED. Diamond would be a great sub-strate for computer chips due to heat properties. You could ramp up the frequency!

I don't find gem diamonds particularly alluring. They're useless to me. Now a diamond cutting blade is useful. I can do more with demo saw than I can with a stone. Use is a major determinant of value to me.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 8:30:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By cookhj:
i read an article about a year or so ago on synthetic diamonds. the article went into detail on how they were made. then they took a few samples to some diamond expert dude and asked him what he thought of the stones, not telling him they were fake. the guy said something about how they couldn't be real because they were completely flawless under even the most powerful magnification whereas real diamonds will have flaws in them. then they went into explaining how synthetic diamonds are great for the manufacturing industry because now they can make diamond dust for grinding/sharpening/sanding applications for next to nothing. the article also said that computer engineers are trying to build a a processor out of synthetic diamonds and that if done would make the computer so fast that i would liquify silicone processors.


Teh boobs!!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 8:36:59 AM EST
you can still tell the difference with laser chromatography.

Any good jeweler has one of these tools, problem is....most jewelers are not good.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 8:39:51 AM EST
Thats what my jeweler friend said as well. The synthetics have NO flaws and are prefect. Some are worked on by master smiths and are perfect.

All natural diamonds have some flaws however minute.

Link Posted: 10/26/2006 8:42:19 AM EST
The speculation of man-made diamonds putting the squeeze on natural diamonds for jewelry has been predicted for many years. It still hasn't happened. If it ever approaches a threat to natural diamonds - I predict DeBeers to run an agressive and successful advertising campaign targeting women to convince them that they being shortchanged by a man-made stone - "a fake diamond". I predict most women to buy into such a campaign.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 9:48:09 AM EST
It could go in the other direction. A lab diamond is flawless, hence more perfect, stronger, and purer than nature can produce and no stigma of blood diamonds.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 10:40:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWO:
The speculation of man-made diamonds putting the squeeze on natural diamonds for jewelry has been predicted for many years. It still hasn't happened. If it ever approaches a threat to natural diamonds - I predict DeBeers to run an agressive and successful advertising campaign targeting women to convince them that they being shortchanged by a man-made stone - "a fake diamond". I predict most women to buy into such a campaign.


That's how it will probably go down.

However if a woman demands a diamond or tries to manipulate you into buying one "Because if you REALLY love me...", it's the best red flag in the world (IMHO) that you should RUN, not walk to the nearest escape pod!
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 12:56:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Rabbit9:
The difference is "mark-up"; the huge disparity between wholesale and retail. If a gun dealer makes 15% on a firearm, he's turning a tidy profit. If we told you that you could only make 15% on jewelery sales, you'd probably go buy a gun at 15% mark-up and shoot yourself.

So jewelers are only allowed to make 15%? If they make more than that, they are gouging you, right?

Looks like we need another economics lesson thread.


Looks like you need to learn how to read.

You can charge whatever price you want to charge. The previous poster implied that a diamond would depreciate, when in fact, you just payed too much for it to begin with. It's called artificially inflated value, and it's what happens when you let emotions over-ride your common sense.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:13:55 PM EST
Does anybody know what the markup on a diamond is? 100% or 3000%. A few years ago I bought my wife a antique ring with three diamonds in it at a pawn shop. I paid $150.00 for it. My wife took it to a jewlery store for appraisal for insurance purposes and they valued the ring at $1,500.00. Bounus points for me. Yep, jewlery is a rip off, unless buying gold for example and paying the going rate for the amount of gold in the item.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:17:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By jblachly:

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By jblachly:

*snip*



No doubt.

But apparently you and the person who wrote the article (which I haven't (yet) read) did not pay attention to history.

The use of marketing ploys to keep diamonds supreme in the marketplace began in the 19th century, not long after the discovery of Opal in Australia.
...
Since you are a capitalist, why are you railing against the expert use of marketplace manipulation to gain a profit?


I wasn't railing against anything; I was simply giving a history lesson on diamonds. You must be confusing the undertone present in some of the other posts with that in mine.


eta: Despite the fact that I am a 19th-century liberal, I am compelled to point out that collusion and cartels are illegal in the United States and De Beers executives are afraid to travel to / in the US for fear of being arrested.


I know! Aint it great! BTW, I don't much care for DeBeers overall, they have done a horrible job of safeguarding the industry which keeps them fed.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:21:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
My point was; How would you know what you are buying? Anyone could take a manufactured diamond and label it as a flawless natural diamond.


An flawless or internally flawless diamond is only flawless under a 10x loupe, or other 10x magnification. There are trace flaws, and carbon residues, visible at higher magnification, and thus, you will almost always be able to determine -- without much drama -- which is lab created.


But the labs CAN insert flaws into synthetics. And likewise, internal flaws in a natural can be bleached, drilled and filled.



[cough]Bullshit[/cough]

No lab in the world can 'insert' a flaw into an otherwise flawless diamond. Laser drill it to make it look that way? Theoretical. But if it passed the test that much, I would simply sell it as a much MORE valuable diamond.

The 'filling' process creates a distinct color effect in a diamond, very obvious under magnification and it point up where the corrected flaws are. Never have heard of a laser drill being filled, though. Only surface contacting inclusions. An inclusion which has color, but does not contact the surface, would have a laser hole drilled and then bleached white, to be less obivous.
Link Posted: 10/26/2006 1:23:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By FZ1Steve:
Does anybody know what the markup on a diamond is? 100% or 3000%. A few years ago I bought my wife a antique ring with three diamonds in it at a pawn shop. I paid $150.00 for it. My wife took it to a jewlery store for appraisal for insurance purposes and they valued the ring at $1,500.00. Bounus points for me. Yep, jewlery is a rip off, unless buying gold for example and paying the going rate for the amount of gold in the item.



Markup, traditionally is not 3000%. Man I wish . . . I would still have a store.

So because you went into a pawn shop that did not have any clue what they were selling, the rest of the industry is ripping people off?

Makes a whole lot of sense . . . if the pawn owner knew hat had done, he probably would be willing to send Guido to get the ring back to sell at the better price, but clueless is clueless . . . just like you.
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