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Posted: 9/14/2005 9:11:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 9:11:53 PM EDT by jkstexas2001]
Next time, don't mess with a 300-lb 6' 6" football playing teen. I have no pity for these fools.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj--roadrage0913sep13,0,7512723,print.story?coll=ny-region-apnewjersey


A man is dead and a teen locked up after road rage incident

By GEOFF MULVIHILL
Associated Press Writer

September 13, 2005, 5:34 PM EDT

MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. -- Enraged after being cut off by a teen driver, authorities say a man then followed the high school athlete home and tried to run the youth down with his car. Instead, the 53-year-old was punched into unconsciousness and died Tuesday.

The teen was jailed, charged with aggravated assault.

Jeffrey Zucker, a lawyer for the 17-year-old, said it was a case of self-defense.

The charges against the boy, whose name was not released because of his age, were filed before James D. Munter died late Tuesday morning. The charges could be upgraded, but Bill Shralow, a spokesman for the Camden County prosecutor's office, said that decision would not be made Tuesday.

The youth cut off Munter, of Lindenwold, on a road in Laurel Springs on Monday evening, authorities said.

Zucker said the teen was on his way home from football practice around 5:30 p.m. when he inadvertently cut off the other driver.

Authorities said Munter followed the teen three miles to the student's home in Lindenwold, screaming through his window all the way. The teen used a cell phone to call his father, who told him to drive home, officials said.

When the teen arrived home, Zucker said, he ran across the street to his home from his still-idling truck, but he was not fast enough. With the teen's father watching, Munter drove into the youth, authorities said.

The teen, who Zucker said is about 6-foot-6 and 300 pounds, rolled off the hood of Munter's 1999 Mercury Sable, landed on his feet, walked to the driver's side of the car and punched Munter twice in the head.

Munter's son-in-law, Mark Serota, who described the man as "nice, fun-loving, goodhearted," said he lost consciousness instantly and never regained it.

Serota said police had asked the family not to talk about the details of the incident, including whether it seemed in character for Munter to follow or confront someone he considered to be a rude driver.

The teen was ordered to remain in the Camden County Youth Detention Center, at least until a hearing scheduled for Thursday.

Zucker said he hoped his client would be released to his parents then.

"It's a true tragedy because it certainly escalated into something that shouldn't have happened," Zucker said. "He was almost killed."

Zucker said three officials at the school where his client was a junior wrote letters supporting him, praising him as a good student and good citizen.

Gerri Carroll, the schools superintendent in Lindenwold, said extra help was available Tuesday for high school students who needed support after hearing about the incident.

The boy, she said, is an "excellent student, which is why this is very uncharacteristic."


Copyright 2005 Newsday Inc.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:17:35 PM EDT
seeing how it would have been justifiable for the teen to shoot the man had he been older and had a CCW it sounds as if he should not even be in detetion.

I would have personally shot the driver as he was comming at me if I had time OR still shot him after I got up off the pavement.

Either way it is justifiable.

Hell, he defended himself on his own property!!!

Auquabumper out!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:31:25 PM EDT
Glad to hear Darwin was in the passenger seat.

From the info given, I think the kid deserves a medal, not jailed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:32:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

Munter's son-in-law, Mark Serota, who described the man as "nice, fun-loving, goodhearted," said he lost consciousness instantly and never regained it.





So why did he follow the kid home then? "Nice, fun-loving, goodhearted," people just dont do that... well unless he was a perv.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:36:29 PM EDT
He was freaking hit by a car. He had every right to hit dead mother fracker!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:38:46 PM EDT
I hope they let him go, how could that not be self defence?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:40:01 PM EDT
The guy drove a long way out of his way and worked exceptionally hard to get himself killed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:40:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:40:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 9:41:36 PM EDT by DrFrige]

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
The guy drove a long way out of his way and worked exceptionally hard to get himself killed.



I find this statement quite amusing... THANKS!!!

NEVER underestimate your opponent!!!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:53:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:

The teen, who Zucker said is about 6-foot-6 and 300 pounds, rolled off the hood of Munter's 1999 Mercury Sable, landed on his feet, walked to the driver's side of the car and punched Munter twice in the head.




I wonder if squatdog could take a full power shot
from that kid

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:55:00 PM EDT
The guy was assaulting the kid with a deadly weapon. I got no sympathy for him.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:56:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 10:20:52 PM EDT by jcp84]

Originally Posted By kpel308:
The kid is in jail because of only 2 words: NEW JERSEY



Beat me to that tragic truth

I mean, what the hell? If anything, the teen should get off with self-defense; if they must, slap him w/a reckless driving ticket.

As for that road-rager, had he survived, he should have been facing stalking, trespassing (?) and attempted murder charges.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 10:03:32 PM EDT
I am sure some places still have the wisdom and maturity to have just pointed, laughed, and let it go. Kid was defending himself, if the asshole hit him with a car once, he mor ethan likely would have done it again.

Hope he is in the "pineapple" section of Hell.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:24:05 PM EDT
These road rage fools are the scum of the earth. I have had some of them shoot me the finger, but fortunately for them, none have tried to confront me or attack me. I have zero pity for them.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:45:23 PM EDT
Gerri Carroll, the schools superintendent in Lindenwold, said extra help was available Tuesday for high school students who needed support after hearing about the incident.

This is what also pisses me off. Who in the hell needs support for this kind of crap? The nightly news had better start offering a hotline for "those in need of counsiling" each day if this is what pansies we are turing into.

"I heard about a car wreck and somebody was killed....yes I will hold......no I don't live in the same state.....yes.......I get extra help for distance compassion?....thanks."

This is were it is headed.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 12:06:31 AM EDT
The pussification of America continues.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 12:22:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 1:20:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 1:21:53 AM EDT by 4get_No1]
Okay - let's say the kid screwed up on his driving. Young (new) drivers sometimes do. Following the kid home and trying to run over him is attempted murder and, in this case, the SCOTUS Darwin Ruling applies.

Here go kid:


<------- Wow. I'm catching up with CJ.... nah, no way.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:48:15 AM EDT
Inadvertently? Yeah, right, ya think?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:45:01 AM EDT
There's no way I could take a full power shot from that kid. Good shootpunch.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:52:06 AM EDT
Soooo.....don't bring a Mercury Sable to a fist fight?



HH
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:53:38 AM EDT
Tell me again why people like living in New Jersey?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:07:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By smokycity:
Tell me again why people like living in New Jersey?



Because they like mosques?
Because it's the closest thing to the middle east you're going to find in America? DURKA DURKA!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:45:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 4:50:28 AM EDT by 4get_No1]

Originally Posted By prk:
Inadvertently? Yeah, right, ya think?



Yep - that's sure a strong possibility but we only know what the newspaper says (so far) .

Given what we do know, I'll stick with my though.

Could change to and except the kid didn't chase the Sable driver or try to run over him. That's pretty certain.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:47:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 4:48:58 AM EDT by PerryF]
Kid was protecting himself from getting runover again, let the kid go you commie assholes.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:55:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 4:57:09 AM EDT by KlubMarcus]

Originally Posted By Jfor:
He was freaking hit by a car. He had every right to hit dead mother fracker!

Yep, and he called home to try and get away from the hothead and followed his dad's orders. Man, he clocked that wacko hard! Nice punches kid!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:04:19 AM EDT
+1 for the teen, can't condone cutting someone off, but that doesn't give some asswipe the right to try to run you over.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:06:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The guy was assaulting the kid with a deadly weapon. I got no sympathy for him.



When there are police involved shooting and the police claim "they were coming right at me", and the bullet holes are in the side of the car.........................................

If he can punch the driver of a vehicle twice, is the car moving? Is he in a place where he can be run over?

Seems like to dopes ran into each other, and egged more dopiness out of each other.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:17:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
When there are police involved shooting and the police claim "they were coming right at me", and the bullet holes are in the side of the car.........................................

If he can punch the driver of a vehicle twice, is the car moving? Is he in a place where he can be run over?


I was thinking the very same thing. According to the report, the kid walked around the side of the car and reached into the driver's side window. I'm not saying I disagree with what the kid did, but technically, he wasn't defending himself anymore, he was acting "offensively."

Again, I would let the kid go, but I can see liberal commies wanting to fry him.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:20:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 2nd_Amendment:
Glad to hear Darwin was in the passenger seat.

From the info given, I think the kid deserves a medal, not jailed.



Agreed!!!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:21:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
..landed on his feet, walked to the driver's side of the car and punched Munter twice in the head.





2 blows result in death!?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:23:17 AM EDT
I believe that the title pretty much says it all. One less idiot Road Rage driver to deal with.

I hope the kid is released with at most disorderly conduct.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:27:30 AM EDT
I'm not surprised at all that this occured in NJ. This type of incident happens pretty frequently, but this only made the news cause the shitbag driver died.

I had a friend that lived in NJ and his father would become histerical if someone cut into his lane. He was a crazy Ecuadorian bastard and pulled a revolver on my friend....that's about the time he realized that he should move out of his parents house......
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:32:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The guy was assaulting the kid with a deadly weapon. I got no sympathy for him.



When there are police involved shooting and the police claim "they were coming right at me", and the bullet holes are in the side of the car.........................................

If he can punch the driver of a vehicle twice, is the car moving? Is he in a place where he can be run over?

Seems like to dopes ran into each other, and egged more dopiness out of each other.



what? I couldn't disagree more. A guy gets HIT BY A CAR, gets up and defends himself and you you say they "egged more dopiness out of each other"????

Have you lost your fucking mind?
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:34:24 AM EDT
What Oly & Wobblin said. It was no longer defensive. Just like when police shoot someone who tried to run them over.

But I have no issue with this case. Just interesting to hear the quietness of people who'd be bashing LE if they shot this guy.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:38:56 AM EDT
LOL, good game.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:42:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

If he can punch the driver of a vehicle twice, is the car moving? Is he in a place where he can be run over?

Seems like to dopes ran into each other, and egged more dopiness out of each other.




Come stand at my drivers window and we'll see if I can't run your ass over.

<turns the wheel hard to the right and drops it in reverse>

Bye Bye Oly
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dawg_killer:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The guy was assaulting the kid with a deadly weapon. I got no sympathy for him.



When there are police involved shooting and the police claim "they were coming right at me", and the bullet holes are in the side of the car.........................................

If he can punch the driver of a vehicle twice, is the car moving? Is he in a place where he can be run over?

Seems like to dopes ran into each other, and egged more dopiness out of each other.



what? I couldn't disagree more. A guy gets HIT BY A CAR, gets up and defends himself and you you say they "egged more dopiness out of each other"????

Have you lost your fucking mind?



Once the threat is gone, so is the Right to self defense. If he is standing next to a non-moving vehicle, is he in imminent danger?

The answer is NO.

Yes, they egged more dopiness out of each other.

Cutting off
Following
Yelling, screaming
etc. Probably not either one of their best days.

Of course "cutting off" is open to interpretation. If you don'y have to take evasive action, brake HARD etc. to avoid a crash you were not "cut off" IMHO. Your comfort zone may have been intruded into, but cut off, no.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:46:32 AM EDT
Ok, You just got chased home, screamed at the whole way. You get out of your car in front of your home and nutbags HITS YOU WITH HIS CAR.

Do you:

A) Get up and hope to limp back into your house and hope that this nutcase is done trying to run you over?
B) Continue to lay on the ground to make it easier for him to complete his murder?
C) Try and limp inside and hope that when your father comes out, this nutcase won't try to kill HIM?
D) Do what you can to incapacitate the driver so his attack will stop?

New jersey state officials of course like answer B

D is the correct answer.

If this had been a gun instead of a Sable and the guy shoots one round at you are you just going to hang around and HOPE he does not shoot again???

Jesus Christ.....
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:46:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Come stand at my drivers window and we'll see if I can't run your ass over.

<turns the wheel hard to the right and drops it in reverse>



Uhh, yeah, except if I voluntarily walk into that position in order to assault you, it's pretty hard to argue self-defense.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:49:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
When there are police involved shooting and the police claim "they were coming right at me", and the bullet holes are in the side of the car.........................................

If he can punch the driver of a vehicle twice, is the car moving? Is he in a place where he can be run over?


I was thinking the very same thing. According to the report, the kid walked around the side of the car and reached into the driver's side window. I'm not saying I disagree with what the kid did, but technically, he wasn't defending himself anymore, he was acting "offensively."

Again, I would let the kid go, but I can see liberal commies wanting to fry him.




I disagree.....the kid probably rightly thought if he took no action the assault would continue. If some one shoots at you and stops momentarily and you shoot them during that "temporary lull" would you be guilty of anything more than acting like a reasonable person? If some one pulls a knife on me and puts there hand down but still has the knife would I not be acting reasonable to take some premptive action to prevent a further assault? If the guy had taken off and the kid chased him down the street and caught him at a stop sign, then I would agree. Obviously all the facts aren't in so it's all conjecture but the kid most likely thought the assault was in process as opposed to over. State of mind weighs high here for me.


Bomber
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:53:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By phatmax:
Ok, You just got chased home, screamed at the whole way. You get out of your car in front of your home and nutbags HITS YOU WITH HIS CAR.

Do you:

A) Get up and hope to limp back into your house and hope that this nutcase is done trying to run you over?
B) Continue to lay on the ground to make it easier for him to complete his murder?
C) Try and limp inside and hope that when your father comes out, this nutcase won't try to kill HIM?
D) Do what you can to incapacitate the driver so his attack will stop?

New jersey state officials of course like answer B

D is the correct answer.

If this had been a gun instead of a Sable and the guy shoots one round at you are you just going to hang around and HOPE he does not shoot again???

Jesus Christ.....



First, where is the mention of "limping"? I saw my brother get hit by a car, and spend some time on the hood, no limping, no real injury, just was basically tripped by the car.

If you are scared for your safety, do you park ACROSS THE STREET FORM YOUR HOUSE? Or do you park on the same side as your house?

Also, the teen realizes there is trouble a brewing behind him, so he uses his cell phone to call.............
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:56:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:

I disagree.....the kid probably rightly thought if he took no action the assault would continue. If some one shoots at you and stops momentarily and you shoot them during that "temporary lull" would you be guilty of anything more than acting like a reasonable person? If some one pulls a knife on me and puts there hand down but still has the knife would I not be acting reasonable to take some premptive action to prevent a further assault? If the guy had taken off and the kid chased him down the street and caught him at a stop sign, then I would agree. Obviously all the facts aren't in so it's all conjecture but the kid most likely thought the assault was in process as opposed to over. State of mind weighs high here for me.


Bomber



If someone shoots at you, misses, then drops their gun, you wait 10 seconds and draw and fire 2, killing the other person, is that self defense?

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:57:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:
State of mind weighs high here for me.



Yup, makes some difference.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:58:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
The guy was assaulting the kid with a deadly weapon. I got no sympathy for him.



When there are police involved shooting and the police claim "they were coming right at me", and the bullet holes are in the side of the car.........................................

If he can punch the driver of a vehicle twice, is the car moving? Is he in a place where he can be run over?

Seems like to dopes ran into each other, and egged more dopiness out of each other.

'

Wasn't he hit and did he not go "over the hood of the car then landed on his feet" then "hit the driver" twice???!?


He had a right to do much more then "punch him twice".....
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:59:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:

Originally Posted By ZW17:
Come stand at my drivers window and we'll see if I can't run your ass over.

<turns the wheel hard to the right and drops it in reverse>



Uhh, yeah, except if I voluntarily walk into that position in order to assault you, it's pretty hard to argue self-defense.



I can't say he voluntarily "walked" over there just as you can't say he "rolled" off the hood and wound up there. Either way what would you have done?

WWGD?

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:01:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 6:03:06 AM EDT by Leisure_Shoot]
Sounds like he should have hired the Governor and the Clique Mob, rather than use his fist to dead the man.


ETA: Seriously, if the man did hit him with his car, he should walk away from this completely free and clear. The fact that the man followed him home shows that there was truly an escalation at that point.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:02:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By phatmax:
Ok, You just got chased home, screamed at the whole way. You get out of your car in front of your home and nutbags HITS YOU WITH HIS CAR.

Do you:

A) Get up and hope to limp back into your house and hope that this nutcase is done trying to run you over?
B) Continue to lay on the ground to make it easier for him to complete his murder?
C) Try and limp inside and hope that when your father comes out, this nutcase won't try to kill HIM?
D) Do what you can to incapacitate the driver so his attack will stop?

New jersey state officials of course like answer B

D is the correct answer.

If this had been a gun instead of a Sable and the guy shoots one round at you are you just going to hang around and HOPE he does not shoot again???

Jesus Christ.....



First, where is the mention of "limping"? I saw my brother get hit by a car, and spend some time on the hood, no limping, no real injury, just was basically tripped by the car.

If you are scared for your safety, do you park ACROSS THE STREET FORM YOUR HOUSE? Or do you park on the same side as your house?

Also, the teen realizes there is trouble a brewing behind him, so he uses his cell phone to call.............



Oly I dub you the NEW SARGE of the boards. Always full of piss and vinegar.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:03:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By thebomber:

I disagree.....the kid probably rightly thought if he took no action the assault would continue. If some one shoots at you and stops momentarily and you shoot them during that "temporary lull" would you be guilty of anything more than acting like a reasonable person? If some one pulls a knife on me and puts there hand down but still has the knife would I not be acting reasonable to take some premptive action to prevent a further assault? If the guy had taken off and the kid chased him down the street and caught him at a stop sign, then I would agree. Obviously all the facts aren't in so it's all conjecture but the kid most likely thought the assault was in process as opposed to over. State of mind weighs high here for me.


Bomber



If someone shoots at you, misses, then drops their gun, you wait 10 seconds and draw and fire 2, killing the other person, is that self defense?




I already answered that. I gave an analogy to your hypothetical so reread my post. If the guy had driven away and the kid followed him, then it's clearly not self defense. Same as dropping the gun.

Bomber
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:06:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:
I can't say he voluntarily "walked" over there just as you can't say he "rolled" off the hood and wound up there.



Yeah, fair enough. If that's where he was thrown by the car, that would change the situation. I'm assuming he voluntarily walked there because the news article said, "landed on his feet, walked to the driver's side of the car".


Either way what would you have done?


Get the hell away from a car trying to run me down, wouldn't you? Then watch and laugh my ass off while road-rager was charged with attempted 1st-degree murder, and be a 17-year-old guy owning someone else's house, instead of being in jail. Win-win for everyone.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 6:09:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
These road rage fools are the scum of the earth. I have had some of them shoot me the finger, but fortunately for them, none have tried to confront me or attack me. I have zero pity for them.



I have had a couple of incidents lately where I have made sure my tool was at the ready because of the ignorant acts of the other motorists.

While I am not a 6'6" 300+ teen (only 6'7" 240 30 something man) I have no inclination to get into a punching match with anyone in a 4000 lb. automobile!

The above case sounds like a textbook case of self defense.

If the young man would have continued punching him for several minutes all while dragging him out of the care etc. then they might have a case against him.

BigDozer66
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