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Posted: 4/6/2001 6:47:41 PM EDT
This one actually happended...

You and your hunting buddy are dropped off by helicopter in the Canadaian woods for a hunting trip(happened 20 years ago, pretend you can still have guns in Canada). There are no cell phones or contact(again, 20 years ago). The helicoptor will pick you up at the designated site in a week. You and your buddy each have a high powered hunting rifle and large bore revolver and ammo supplies of 100 rifle rounds and 50 handgun rounds each. Civilization is NOT in walking distance, you are carrying ALL of your supplies in packs(ie. food, tent, etc.)
One day three you begin to take fire. You both go prone, shit your pants and start screaming "we are hunters, stop shooting at us." The shooting stops. You scream, "we are hunting, we are not animals, don't shoot." No response. You continue to yell and try and make verbal contact with the other hunter. Your buddy fires two rounds so they understand there are "other hunters" in the woods. Then a single shot comes REAL close. It dawns on you that they DO know you are people.
Your ride is four days away and the area familiar to you is in the direction the fire came from. What do you do?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 6:51:03 PM EDT
Kill or be killed. What happened, since this is supposed to be true?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 6:54:42 PM EDT
Tell you later. I'm just wondering what the thought process of some members would be. Specifics.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:01:08 PM EDT
i would use my mirror to flash your plane for help ok
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:15:07 PM EDT
Hmmm. To many unknown variables here. For one, hasthe guy you're with ever been shot at before?
If so, yell "cover me", have him lay down suppresive fire (being judicious as possible considering your absurdly low ammo load limitation) and low crawl your ass to cover. As soon as you have it, do the same for him. Retreat under cover, link up, find a nice place to lay up and wait for the Cannuck Rambos to come looking for you. Kill them. Bury them deep.
Bag a few moose or whatever, and take the plane out. Keep your mouth shut about your "adventure"
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:21:01 PM EDT
It's happened to friends of mine hunting in New Mexico and is common even here in Louisiana. They were probably locals who don't want you there and for the most part really didn't want to kill you but rather send a a message of intimidation to get you the hell away. My friends laid low in the N.M. incident and it blew over. In the Louisiana incident my friends were threatened face to face in the dark to get the hell out. My friends didn't back down and it too blew over without incident.

The other possibility is that they are conducting illegal drug activities and would kill you (not uncommon either).

I hope you are not going to withhold the answer(if you know it), for days!
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:24:18 PM EDT
HMMMM, how about this?

Take your pants off, then your underwear, take undwear and drape it over muzzle of firearm, wave your "tighty whities" in the air back and forth to show not only that you:
A.) surrender unconditionally

but also that

B.) you've SH*T yourself

Gonna stay tuned to this one to hear how it turned out.

Here locally this isn't too out of the ordinary even if you're somewhat within walking distance of civilization.  Damned pot farmers that build their crops deep in the forrest, you could walk into it and never know it until you're surrounded by pot plants and the irrigation equipment.   What's worse is they booby trap the area so that if you're not careful you could really be in some serious trouble or even worse there could very well be one or two of them in the area keeping tabs on their investment.

About 2-3 times a year we hear stories about the local LE agencies using their FLIR equipment to spot crops from the air during the expected harvest times.

Link Posted: 4/6/2001 7:56:08 PM EDT
Suppressive fire, cover, E&E like crazy....then reassess.  Unassing the AO should solve the problem if it's druggies or locals.  If they follow, use a "stay behind" and take em out, then finish the trip.  "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as being shot at without result."
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:02:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 8:16:20 PM EDT
Yeah, first thing I thought of was pot farmers, but then again, does marijauna grow well that far north? Ruled that out right away. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't have a degree in agriculture or growing weed. Bottom line is if you shoot at me, I'll kill you if I can. Won't do something stupid like try to slide up on your undoubtedly prepared position, but set up my own, and see how crazy you are. If it blows over, well, you scared the piss out of the Yank and got away with it. Pop another Moosehead and have a good yuk. Just don't shoot your mouth off about it in a bar I happen to be in,cause you'll have an accident on your way to your car at closing time.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:00:23 PM EDT
Don't get mad; get even.  I like that vindictive sh!t...
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:05:40 PM EDT
Old Sicilian proverb: "Revenge is a dish best eaten cold"
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:10:16 PM EDT
Stey, who the hell is STEYRPRODIGY? Is that Troy? WTF is he doing?
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:30:38 PM EDT
Ok since the weapons we have are not conducive for a firefight, fighting through the ambush would not be an option. I would set up a hasty retreat with cover fire to the closest high ground or cover or both if possible, once there we would position ourselves for 360 degree scanning and prepare to fight. If this was a misunderstanding whoever was shooting at us should not follow. If they were out to kill us we would maintain 360 scan shooting only at targets we could hit. I would pray for dark to fall and get the f out of there going through the least likely terrain (read HARD to travel)I would feel at greater ease at night because they shouldn't have NODS and the night belongs to me!

I would try to circle back to the LZ for the pick up and hope it was cold when the helo got there.

Hunter out...
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 10:37:34 PM EDT
Get on the radio quick!  Pop some smoke and have the Navy fly boys blow the hell out of the enemy position. [:D]

Seriously, get low.  Get ready.  Get even.
Link Posted: 4/6/2001 11:05:03 PM EDT
BTW nice work Steyr, you caught me totally off guard. I am usually running through scenarios in my head for the urban jungle.

You made me think fast and hard.

Truly a crappy situation.

Hunter out...
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 4:36:29 AM EDT
Since back up is not an option and survival should be the only thing that counts at this point,I would retreat. We have a lot of weight on our back's in the form of supplies, the enemy force is unknown, their intent is unkown as well.Back track to high ground and try to set up in an area that will afford you the tactical advantage over someone who is trying to advance on your position.Since you have to hold out for 4 more day's, fortify your position and alternate sleep with your partner for watch.If enemy fire is encountered at this point, you can assume that they are hunting you and you should not move from your position, unless it can be breached by the attacker. The assailants are in the same boat as you as far as transportation and contact go, so you you would have to think that there rescources are limited as far as supplies.It would be unwise to try and make your way through an unknown area to get back to your LZ, due to not knowing how many are in the force that was or is attacking you. If you get through the 4th day, the helo will come for you and find you are not where you are supposed to be and send out the re-inforcements. Stay put and keep low.Return fire if fired upon and target can be ellimintaed or impaired. A wound would be as good as a kill at this point since the attackers would have to pack a wounded man out and would probably deter any further advances from them.There are a lot of variables, but given the info above, this would be my choice.
Now what's the answer? Inquiring minds want to know.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 4:42:43 AM EDT
Someone is shooting at me for some reason (if the real close round was a warning, I can take a hint). I don't know who, why, or how many. I assume they know the area better than I do and I also assume that they can shoot well enough to kill me if that is what they want to do. I'm moving in the opposite direction REAL fast (2 guys attacking an unknown force in unfamiliar terrain, I don’t think so).  The hunting trip is off. We are now at war. You hope if you leave they don't follow but you don't know, so you find a place to hole up where no one can sneak up on you and try to figure out what the heck is going on. Get rid of all the baggage you don't need and check the map for a new route to the pickup. I would move off after dark (bad if you don’t know the area, but better than getting shot).  The plan is to lose them and get to the pickup on time (I’m guessing we have plenty of time since this was a hunting trip and not a combat patrol).  I’m checking the back trial so if there is anyone following me, I just hope it wasn’t a big misunderstanding if I have to waste someone. The police can sort it out later.    
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 4:56:25 AM EDT

We're leaving, I'm not sitting here until someone shoots me. And don't step on a stick in the dark.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:21:16 AM EDT
Ummmm... Toughie. Well, if I can clarify-

I can tell by the shots the the intent is to harm, and the shooting is not accidental, right?

OK... I'm just hunting, I don't know what their problem is and I don't want to. If it's that important that they'll shoot(whatever it is, even if it's just themselves they want to keep secret), I'm not going to fight an unseen enemy(s), even on familiar territory. I'm going to make sure my buddy is alright, load every weapon we have, and do some alert, speedy E&E towards the car/SUV. If our E&E leads to unseen or seen(this include shots following us as we attempt to leave) pursuit, we'll have to try to take whatever cover there is, and shoot on sight. If we get him/them, decide what to do then. If he's wearing fatigues and has a wierd insignia on them, indicating that he's from a shadow government/secret Govt. agency/alien spacecraft/China, bury 'em. If he/they appear to be bootleggers/drugdealers or manufacturers, also bury 'em.

If we do make it out without having to shoot:camping overnight, we'll take turns watching, hope that they weren't upset/dedicated enough to follow. Camps will have to be hidden from sight as wells as possible, piling pine brush against the tents if neccessary.

Hope we make it back to the car, and stay alert. No way I'm going looking for unseen agressors in remote woods with just a friend, not if I can leave and survive.


300 posts! Woohoo!
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 5:37:08 AM EDT
Oslow, Where are you leaving to? Your ride is 4 days away and the attackers are fring from the area you need to go to.You have to evade these guy's for a long period of time and eventually you will have to stay in one spot. The one factor that remains the same is that all of you are human, which means that sleeping and eating have to come at some point and time. If you and your partner are both up and running, you more than likley will both be worn out at the same time and will not be able to defend yourself from the attackers by keeping on the move. You also don't know what there knowledge of the area is, so they may be able to setup an ambush if they figure out what direction of travel you are taking.Loosing your gear in this situation is not wise, because you may need to hold up longer and without supplies, you are dead.The retreat to higher ground means loosing these idiots. If they are following, you know what their intetions are and you will have to try and take them out at some point and time, so it might as well be on your strength of fortitude rather than on there element of surprise.
This is just an "opinion" of what I "might" do given the above circumstances.I would like to hear the outcome of this situation as it really happened, because we may be missing some important piece of info that could change the way your reaction would be.
Regardless of what the outcome, this is fun!
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:01:41 AM EDT
I'm getting away from the contact area (and staying away), hoping that ends the conflict. I want to "lose" the opposition as soon as possible, I’d rather they didn’t know exactly where I am, I assume (hope) they don’t know where I’m going.  I’m moving far enough to do both of these things and the plan is to make the pickup on time.  I have four days to get there so I can move slowly and carefully. Depending on the terrain and timeframe I’ll hole up during the day and move early morning and late evening. Watch that stick!
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 6:21:37 AM EDT
1. Try and locate position of attackers so that...

2. E&E will have more of a chance of being successful.

3. Affect E&E...preferably to a defensable position.

4. If attack persists...dig in

5. Attempt to nuetralize the attacker (s) by any means possible...

6. Savor the adrenaline...

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 7:37:40 AM EDT
Brief check in - Good Morning - Result of incident will be posted later today.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 7:43:04 AM EDT
Brief check in - Good Morning - Result of incident will be posted later today.
View Quote

Godd morning-

You're just gonna let us stew all morning, huh? [:)]


Link Posted: 4/7/2001 8:21:25 AM EDT
Make your way to the nearest cover which would provide you with some assemblance of a view of the surrounding terain and a view of the area in which the shots originated from.

One person should Jury rig some camo that would be condusive to the area you are in. While the other should keep a constant watch in the area that the shots came from to assertain what kind of force you are up against. IE number of people. And to make sure they aren't moving in on your position. Through the use of maps (which I would presume you have some) try to plot a course to circumvent the attackers without confronting them if possible if you don't know their strength.

If at all possible work your way around them without contact they unlike you may have backup so in this case stealth and being nonconfrontational would be the best course of action.  Try to plot your route along areas that would afford you some cover incase worse comes to worse and they do get the drop on you and you do have to fight for your life. Sleep in shifts and always keep one set of eyes on the look out.  

Moving at night would probably be best. So lay low and wait for night fall.  Rest, keep your guard up.  And be ready to hall ass.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 8:22:16 AM EDT
Here's the ending:

My friend and I kill four drug smugglers (self-defense, I didn't want to do it), find their hide-out, fill our packs and pockets with a few million in cash, shoot two bears and a moose on the way to the pickup point and live happily ever after. Now that's what I call a hunting trip.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 8:50:22 AM EDT
From this point, war has been declared on you.  Make them know they are in a war.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 9:18:54 AM EDT
I'm waiting like a kid on Christmas eve.  JUST TELL US ALREADY!  Please Please Please!
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 9:35:45 AM EDT
Before you tell us the answer I have a question.
Did you hear banjo music in the distance when all this shooting was going on? If this were the case I would have been running away and firing over my shoulder at the same time. Save the last bullet for yourself![pistol]
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 10:25:09 AM EDT

1) Ensure that you and your battle buddy have cover(very important when someone is shooting at you) and concealment(almost a moot point if they have a bead on you). E&E or breaking contact at this point is dependent upon the time of the day, route of escape, where exactly you are going, the load you have to carry and pucker factor(just how puckered your butthole gets,on a scale of one to ten, when sh*t hits the fan). If you can hole up temporarily to get your bearings, then do so. So long as the fire is not imminent, try to locate the point of fire and if possible drill the sob(s). Staying quiet will help you figure out exactly is out there shooting at you. Formulate a plan between crapping your collective pants!
2) If it is advisable wait until the cover of darkness and bug out quietly to the rally point. Preferrably this is location situated with you in between it and the bg's (bad guys). You also need to consider the lz and how that fits into da plan. I would try to get to a position of strength and hunker down. You want to conserve ammo, energy and food. Try not to let the bg's onto where the lz is. That could be a bad thing.
3) If fesiable, neutralize the threat. Remember, you objective is to get out alive and to go home. Killing the sob's is ancillary to your objective. Although it would be the ultimate hunting trip-I would try to avoid conflict because you don't know exactly what you are up against and the risks involved. If the opportunity exists-do it and bury the event somewhere in the big, bad canadian woods to never be found again. Otherwise, just work on going home and letting the authorities know about it. Remember, they get paid to do that stuff.  
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 11:46:18 AM EDT
alright already! give up the end of the story.
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 1:24:50 PM EDT

Hunter asleep....
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 1:42:56 PM EDT
keep low get away. find a place to set up a dummy camp light a fire to make the decoy known. get to a safe defendable place and wait.  its always beter to pic your battles if posible. if the come looking thats what the fire is for they are lit and in the open
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 1:49:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 2:34:35 PM EDT
OK here's how it played out. First, although experienced hunters, neither had any kind of military experience. Only one is known to me personally and I am not the other.
When it dawned on them that they were being deliberately fired on they sought the nearest cover and concealment. The next few hours were spent trying to see anyone or anything. After dusk, the decision was made to try E & E. They moved randomly and sporadically the rest of the night in an effort to put distance between them and the shooter(s). By the middle of the next day, they thought things were looking up until a single, close long distance shot. The above situation repeated itself. For the next two days, they tried to escape and evade with the fact that they were being actively hunted demonstrated on several more occasions. They at numerous times got lost and reoriented as well.
The day before pickup they decided to find a defensible position near the site, so that the shots, if any, would be heard. That night, using cover and stealth they set up their holdout site. They did not sleep, even though they did try the shift thing all that week with limited success. Both had previously made the decision that they were going to kill the shooter(s) at the first opportunity they got.
The next day the helo arrived, a little later than scheduled, and they departed without further incident. The authorities were notified but the investigation yielded no results. In all probablility, it was a single shooter.

Did I leave anything out?
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 2:40:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 2:43:57 PM EDT
that fact it was you shooting at these poor bastards with that fine ass .50cal rifle of yours. what were you using them for? targets to sight in the scope maybe[}:D]
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 3:07:54 PM EDT
Thanks for the post and the long awaited outcome.

Hunter out...
Link Posted: 4/7/2001 3:29:13 PM EDT
But Sarah, [u]I couldn't[/u] call 911.

Mental note:  Kick partner's ass later for confirming position.

You've been around too long to to be caught dead in the woods without binocs,map,& compass so you can get to your pickup.

You don't know their number.

Haul ass laterally from the direction of fire, leaving your pack behind.  

Check backtrail & take cover where you can still observe the big pile of shit you made & at the same time eyeball the backtrail, so I'm thinking circle back a bit away from them (not trying to flank them, the other way).

Lock & load, wait & watch.
If they can see you, you can see them.  
One use binocs,handgun drawn, the other scan with scoped rifle.  Watch between your last position and the direction of fire, but don't assume they are necessarily that stupid.  Also watch backtrail, but 360 degress also.  Shut up & listen.  They should show up beofre long.

I tend to doubt the dope-grower scenario, as I don't know, but I think they would plant in the sun.
More like poachers or a Chinese diplomatic "trade mission."

Anyway, I would several under good cover wait to ID them.  Do not shoot mounties, as it's bad, and your position has already been radioed in.  When they show up, you can better assess the situation.

Anyone else, I guess it would depend on whether you felt you were in danger.  Anyone who shot at me, I would assume are still targeting me unless I can ID them as known and assess them as still friendly.  Hard to consider someone friendly who's intentionally shot in your direction.  This doesn't sound accidental.

Surrounding and "arresting" them is stupid heroics that can get you killed unless you have an overwhelming surprise & advantage.

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 3:39:41 PM EDT
Stop for lunch.I always eat when I get nervous.
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/7/2001 7:27:57 PM EDT
I liked my ending better.
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