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Posted: 9/24/2005 6:17:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 6:18:16 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Now physicists regularly trot out some new goofball theory almost every year that "explains everything."

Problem is, this one actually seems to "fit" and addresses all kinds of issues that have perplexed us for a long time.

The problem is, IF true, we have fundamentally misunderstood almost everything we know. It is all still true, it is just insignificant in the larger picture. It's like discovering the world is not only NOT flat but a small inconsequential part of the universe.

M Theory, if true, addresses everything from Big Bang to parallel universes and greatly refines String Theory. The Big Bang would be the beginning of OUR universe but our universe is just a small part of the total BIG PICTURE.



I understand it enough to know what they are suggesting but the overall concept is causing cerebral trauma.

The proposed membrane theory of gravitation is of type Kaluza-Klein with non-compactified fourth spatial dimension and delivers Newton’s law of gravitation in a direct way and explains light bending, Shapiro effect and perihelion advance of Mercury with the same accuracy as the GR. There is no reason to believe that the speed of gravity is greater than the speed of light. From the point of view of the proposed Cosmic Membrane Theory the General Relativity of Albert Einstein is a projection of the 4-dimensional space into the 4-dimensional spacetime. The constant moc2 replaces the constancy of c. Spontaneous creation of matter seems to be possible, because the resistance of the existing matter inside the membrane is producing a great amount of energy. A new cold dark matter candidate (CDM) is presented. It is a thickening of the cosmic membrane caused by ordinary matter leading to a long-reaching violation of the 1/r-potential.

×

Key words: Kaluza-Klein, membrane, gravitation, relativity, dark matter

If you really want to know:

COSMIC MEMBRANE THEORY

If the above link makes your head hurt try this one:

M-theory (simplified)

In 1995, Edward Witten initiated what has been called the Second Superstring Revolution by introducing M-theory to the world. This theory combines the 5 different string theories (along with a previously abandoned attempt to unify General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics called (eleven-dimensional) Supergravity) into one theory. This is accomplished by knitting together a web of relationships between each of the theories called dualities (specifically, S-duality, T-duality, and U-duality). Each of these dualities provides a way of converting one of the string theories into another.

T-duality is probably the most easily explained of the dualities. It has to do with the size, denoted by R, of the curled up dimensions of the string theories. It was discovered that if you take a Type IIA string theory that has a size R and change the radius to 1/R then you will end up getting what is equivalent to a Type IIB theory of size R. This duality, along with the others, creates connections between all 5 (or 6, if you count supergravity) theories.

Factually, these dualities' existence had been known before Witten came up with the idea of M-theory. What Witten did was to predict that the fact that all of these different theories were connected was as a result of there being some underlying theory to which they were all approximations. Additionally, it was found that the equations that required string theory to exist in 10 dimensions were also approximations. The proposed (and somewhat nebulous) M-theory would instead be a theory that took place in 11 dimensions, although the details have not been pinned down.

To understand M-theory it is necessary to first get some understanding of string theory. For hundreds of years physics has operated on the paradigm that the fundamental particles, like the familiar electron, are point-like or (in mathematical jargon) 0-dimensional. If string theory were to be summed up in a single idea, it is that this assumption is incorrect. Instead, string theory posits that the Universe is fundamentally composed of 1-dimensional objects—things that are similar to a string. These strings would be so small that on even the tiny scale of particles they would seem like points. In string theory, each fundamental particle is created in some sense by different patterns of vibration of the strings. One might ask why physicists have constrained themselves to 0-dimensional points for all this time; the answer is that 1-dimensional objects are much harder to work with and often cause technical problems with causality and violations of special relativity's mandate that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.

String theory's development has come primarily because of an extremely important problem that has plagued physics for almost 100 years. The problem is that general relativity, the theory developed by Albert Einstein that explains things on very large or cosmological scales, is irreconcilable with quantum mechanics and the Standard Model, which describe the Universe on the small subatomic scale. Additionally, there are problems with the Standard Model: it has around 20 free parameters that must be plugged in by hand, and has a large number of particles it declares fundamental (there are three copies of every particle organized in what are termed as "families" whose only difference from one another is mass). Also, because it can't be reconciled with general relativity, it lacks a description of gravity, the most familiar of the four fundamental forces.

It turns out that using 1-dimensional objects instead of point particles solves many of these problems. The number of free parameters in the theory drops from 20 to one (a parameter that corresponds to the size of the strings), and there is hope that details of the theory will explain why the three families of particles exist. Most importantly, string theorists were delighted to find that string theory necessarily contains gravitons, the particle that causes gravity. This has led Edward Witten, the founder of M-theory, to joke that string theory does have the remarkable experimental evidence that gravity exists all around us. Thus, string theory successfully unites General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics.

Sadly that IS the dumbed down version.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:18:15 PM EDT
Oh shadddddupppp!

Its the weekend, don't think so hard!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:21:46 PM EDT
your wife is gone for a week, and you're sitting at your computer, on the internet, researching quantum physis?

you wild man you!

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:25:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TKoProductions:
your wife is gone for a week, and you're sitting at your computer, on the internet, researching quantum physis?

you wild man you!




Dude. Seriously. Last night it was stolen Rolexes, tonight it's advanced physics.

What will tomorrow bring?

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:25:36 PM EDT
Ahh you're just pulling our string. Sure wish I understood it.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:28:15 PM EDT
So now I'm less significant than a speck of dust on a single planet in an infinite number of universes lieing within an infinite number of parallel dimensions. I should've guessed.

I believe this is one of the best reasons I've ever heard of to visit a titty bar.

Thank you for the inspiration.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:28:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dilbert_556:
Ahh you're just pulling our string. Sure wish I understood it.



Who are you kidding? You KNOW you understand it.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:30:00 PM EDT
... Man, for just just one weekend, you should consider drinking!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:32:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:
So now I'm less significant than a speck of dust on a single planet in an infinite number of universes lieing within an infinite number of parallel dimensions. I should've guessed.

I believe this is one of the best reasons I've ever heard of to visit a titty bar.

Thank you for the inspiration.



Yes. According to M our Big Bang and universe are just one of MANY parallels all connected by the greater membrane each likely beginning with their own Big Bang.

It explains a lot. If true it kinda makes everything we knew up to that point somewhat insiginificant.

I'll meet ya at the titty bar...
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:32:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Man, for just just one weekend, you should consider drinking!



If trying to wrap his head around that shit this late on a Saturday night doesn't drive him to the bottle, I don't think there's any hope of a drinking career for him.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:33:56 PM EDT
I watched that, I knew about it before tho. That kind of stuff is a hobby for me, that and blowing things up.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:34:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... Man, for just just one weekend, you should consider drinking!



What is the word I'm looking for.....oh yeah......Tactically Dangerous.......yeah.......that is why I don't drink.

If I DID drink I might understand EVERYTHING but wouldn't be able to explain it to you guys coherently and wouldn't remember it later.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:34:36 PM EDT
So the taxi driver looks and says, "Do you have anything smaller?"
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:34:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 6:35:32 PM EDT by MMcCall]
Blah blah blah

Will it buy me diapers or formula? Will it make the car payment? I wish I could get paid to sit around and hash out worthless shit all day.

(Absolutely no offense intended to SA for bringing this to the table, I'm just always annoyed by "intellectuals" whose only skill is being able to convert oxygen to carbon dioxide.)
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:36:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:39:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Blah blah blah

Will it buy me diapers or formula? Will it make the car payment? I wish I could get paid to sit around and hash out worthless shit all day.

(Absolutely no offense intended to SA for bringing this to the table, I'm just always annoyed by "intellectuals" whose only skill is being able to convert oxygen to carbon dioxide.)



All ya need is something like a degree from MIT.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:42:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 6:42:14 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
The really interesting question is whether or not it has testable implications and is falsifiable. This is of course always a concern (and one of the requirements of "theory") - and ESPECIALLY a concern since this seems to be based on - in part or in whole - on "String Theory" - which many high-energy physicists do not accept as theory, precisely because it is not really testable or falsifiable.

If not, it is just a cute story, like the Easter Bunny and Underpants Gnomes.



But admittedly, I don't really know that much about high-energy physics (even though I was reminded that it WAS originally what I was going to be educated in - I just found a bunch of old textbooks on things like gauge theories and high-energy particles).


Thanks for posting it!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:47:43 PM EDT


Honestly, its interesting and I will probably read it later... but I'm to tired right now.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:49:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
The really interesting question is whether or not it has testable implications and is falsifiable. This is of course always a concern (and one of the requirements of "theory") - and ESPECIALLY a concern since this seems to be based on - in part or in whole - on "String Theory" - which many high-energy physicists do not accept as theory, precisely because it is not really testable or falsifiable.

If not, it is just a cute story, like the Easter Bunny and Underpants Gnomes.



But admittedly, I don't really know that much about high-energy physics (even though I was reminded that it WAS originally what I was going to be educated in - I just found a bunch of old textbooks on things like gauge theories and high-energy particles).


Thanks for posting it!



Hey dammit....Underpants Gnomes are real.

They are specifically mentioned in the Annals of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:53:01 PM EDT
Does this mean you guys aren't going to the titty bar?
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:53:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:
Does this mean you guys aren't going to the titty bar?



Just as soon as we get this string thing worked out.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 6:55:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 6:58:30 PM EDT by Echo_Hotel]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Yes. According to M our Big Bang and universe are just one of MANY parallels all connected by the greater membrane each likely beginning with their own Big Bang.

It explains a lot. If true it kinda makes everything we knew up to that point somewhat insiginificant.

I'll meet ya at the titty bar...


"Science Daily" magazine had an article on M Theory a while back. I got about half way through it and life intervened. Complex but interesting stuff. It takes talent to write about it without going into heavy math.

Regarding parallel universes, physicist Max Tegmark wrote an interesting article a couple of years back when he was at U of Pennsylvania (he's apparently at MIT now). For the undoubted horde of Arfcommers that are interested, a link to the PDF document is here:

Tegmark - Parallel Universes


EDIT: Oops, had the wrong linky up for all 1 of you that might want to see it. Fixed now.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:09:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
The really interesting question is whether or not it has testable implications and is falsifiable. This is of course always a concern (and one of the requirements of "theory") - and ESPECIALLY a concern since this seems to be based on - in part or in whole - on "String Theory" - which many high-energy physicists do not accept as theory, precisely because it is not really testable or falsifiable.

If not, it is just a cute story, like the Easter Bunny and Underpants Gnomes.



But admittedly, I don't really know that much about high-energy physics (even though I was reminded that it WAS originally what I was going to be educated in - I just found a bunch of old textbooks on things like gauge theories and high-energy particles).


Thanks for posting it!



Hey dammit....Underpants Gnomes are real.

They are specifically mentioned in the Annals of Flying Spaghetti Monsterism.



Of course they are.

Step 1: Collect underpants.
Step 3: Profit.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:11:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:


Of course they are.

Step 1: Collect underpants.
Step 3: Profit.



I had forgotten how funny that was.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:12:49 PM EDT
String theory rocks

It solves a WHOLE bunch of problems I was workin' on in my dope smoking days
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:17:29 PM EDT
SteyrAUG - I actually studied a fair amount of this in school. On some night when I don't have female coming over in an hour (I must prepare my traps) I will tell you why I think M-theory and any string theory related concept is probably a dead end.

In short: the only divergence between string theories and currently accepted theories occur below the Planck length of spatial scale - and you cannot design an experiment to validate or invalidate anything at that length scale via the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which no one disputes.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:30:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
SteyrAUG - I actually studied a fair amount of this in school. On some night when I don't have female coming over in an hour (I must prepare my traps) I will tell you why I think M-theory and any string theory related concept is probably a dead end.

In short: the only divergence between string theories and currently accepted theories occur below the Planck length of spatial scale - and you cannot design an experiment to validate or invalidate anything at that length scale via the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which no one disputes.


But I thought when the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is finished they're going to, perhaps, be able to test for something along these lines? Of course I freely confess the intricacies of this stuff is way over my head. Still, it seems like it was something to do with "supersymmetric particles".
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:33:43 PM EDT
Bottom line...under this theory, is Faster Than Light travel possible?

If so, I'm all for it!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 7:36:30 PM EDT
This was on Discovery Science last Tuesday I recall, I watch the Tuesday night Cosmos, Astronomy, Big Bang stuff. M theory says the universe has 11 dimensions or something. Wild.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:56:08 PM EDT
Read "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 8:59:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stealth:

I believe this is one of the best reasons I've ever heard of to visit a titty bar.

Thank you for the inspiration.



String theory. G-string theory. Close enough.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:01:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Echo_Hotel:

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
SteyrAUG - I actually studied a fair amount of this in school. On some night when I don't have female coming over in an hour (I must prepare my traps) I will tell you why I think M-theory and any string theory related concept is probably a dead end.

In short: the only divergence between string theories and currently accepted theories occur below the Planck length of spatial scale - and you cannot design an experiment to validate or invalidate anything at that length scale via the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which no one disputes.


But I thought when the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva is finished they're going to, perhaps, be able to test for something along these lines? Of course I freely confess the intricacies of this stuff is way over my head. Still, it seems like it was something to do with "supersymmetric particles".



Ya know. There is a lot of stuff that can't be tested. Doesn't make it a dead end.

Do you know how long it took to demonstrate E=mc2 both ways?

And that is why it is called "theory" cause it's the best we have given the current evidence.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:02:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Blah blah blah

Will it buy me diapers or formula? Will it make the car payment? I wish I could get paid to sit around and hash out worthless shit all day.

(Absolutely no offense intended to SA for bringing this to the table, I'm just always annoyed by "intellectuals" whose only skill is being able to convert oxygen to carbon dioxide.)



Glad to know that you have no use for scientific advancement. Well, except for all this "technology" you surround yourself with, without which you probably wouldn't be able to function.

Jim
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:07:59 PM EDT
Tag for later...much later
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:12:22 PM EDT
I have Vodka.

It helped some. Not much.

I need to go back and read some more Hawkings. I used to love this crap...
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:15:09 PM EDT
Sorry for the hijack but I tried to read your thread SteyrAUG and all I could do was wonder "Is this all you can come up with while your wife is away?" Surely you can be more fun then this? At least give me the readers digest version.

Patty
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:17:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Sorry for the hijack but I tried to read your thread SteyrAUG and all I could do was wonder "Is this all you can come up with while your wife is away?" Surely you can be more fun then this? At least give me the readers digest version.

Patty



Wife leaves in a few days.

And what are you talking about? This IS fun.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:18:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 12:39:55 AM EDT by Vulcan94]

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
This was on Discovery Science last Tuesday I recall, I watch the Tuesday night Cosmos, Astronomy, Big Bang stuff. M theory says the universe has 11 dimensions or something. Wild.



I saw that too. Interesting stuff. Kinda made me what to get out the college math textbooks and do a little boning up. Well, not really.


Vulcan94

Thxs SteyrAUG glad I could get you to laugh!
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:21:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Vulcan94:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
This was on Discovery Science last Tuesday I recall, I watch the Tuesday night Cosmos, Astronomy, Big Bang stuff. M theory says the universe has 11 dimensions or something. Wild.



I saw that too. Interesting stuff. Kinda made me what to get out the collage math textbooks and do a little boneing up. Well, not really.


Vulcan94




Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:22:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Sorry for the hijack but I tried to read your thread SteyrAUG and all I could do was wonder "Is this all you can come up with while your wife is away?" Surely you can be more fun then this? At least give me the readers digest version.

Patty



Wife leaves in a few days.

And what are you talking about? This IS fun.



Ah ha! I guess I misread then. What to do, what to do.......heck, I'm game. You pick. Just don't bore me to death! Patty
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:25:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Sorry for the hijack but I tried to read your thread SteyrAUG and all I could do was wonder "Is this all you can come up with while your wife is away?" Surely you can be more fun then this? At least give me the readers digest version.

Patty



Wife leaves in a few days.

And what are you talking about? This IS fun.



Ah ha! I guess I misread then. What to do, what to do.......heck, I'm game. You pick. Just don't bore me to death! Patty




OK, first we tie you to a chair.

Then we get the warm baby oil.

Then we......ah hell.....I forgot I'm married...........nevermind.

Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:30:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Sorry for the hijack but I tried to read your thread SteyrAUG and all I could do was wonder "Is this all you can come up with while your wife is away?" Surely you can be more fun then this? At least give me the readers digest version.

Patty



Wife leaves in a few days.

And what are you talking about? This IS fun.



Ah ha! I guess I misread then. What to do, what to do.......heck, I'm game. You pick. Just don't bore me to death! Patty




OK, first we tie you to a chair.

Then we get the warm baby oil.

Then we......ah hell.....I forgot I'm married...........nevermind.




lol! Well diffinately more lively! Okay best get back to Cosmic Membraine Theory. Patty
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:31:20 PM EDT
PBS has a special on-line you can watch, a three-hour show they did with Brian Greene, the string theorist.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/

I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but it might be entertaining to some of you whose curiosity is piqued by the current topic.

Jim
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:40:46 PM EDT
If you have the Theory of Everything forumla + data on all the little particles in the universe + enough computational power to processes it = you will know the future... and preclude Free Will.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:51:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:
If you have the Theory of Everything forumla + data on all the little particles in the universe + enough computational power to processes it = you will know the future... and preclude Free Will.



Only if:

1. Particle-particle and particle-energy and energy-energy interactions are deterministic and not probablistic, and

2. You have a computer of sufficient size, external to the known universe in such a way that no influence can flow between the computer and the universe.

Of course, both of these conditions are met if you believe that we exist in a simulation of some sort already.

Majoring in physics or philosophy is the educational equivalent of taking the red pill.

Jim
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:57:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Majoring in physics or philosophy is the educational equivalent of taking the red pill.



So true. So true.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:50:00 PM EDT
Tag for tomorrow after some sleep.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 11:59:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Stealth:
Does this mean you guys aren't going to the titty bar?



Just as soon as we get this string thing worked out.



You need practical application of the G-string theory......
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:05:05 AM EDT
It's all relative...
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:08:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By prk:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Stealth:
Does this mean you guys aren't going to the titty bar?



Just as soon as we get this string thing worked out.



You need practical application of the G-string theory......



Research is expensive. We'll need ones and twenties. Lot's of 'em.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 12:41:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 12:43:43 AM EDT by Vulcan94]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By Vulcan94:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
This was on Discovery Science last Tuesday I recall, I watch the Tuesday night Cosmos, Astronomy, Big Bang stuff. M theory says the universe has 11 dimensions or something. Wild.



I saw that too. Interesting stuff. Kinda made me what to get out the collage math textbooks and do a little boneing up. Well, not really.


Vulcan94







Rats! Busted again!



Vulcan94
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