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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/31/2010 7:08:07 PM EDT
Would you use a name brand conventional or a store brand full synthetic?

Assuming cost is the same.
Link Posted: 8/31/2010 7:34:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 2:16:12 AM EDT
Porsche recommended Mobil 1, so I always used that in my Porsche. I actually started using it in the car I had before that - if I didn't order Amsoil.

In my 03 Tiburon, I put Amsoil in it when it had around 30k miles, IIRC, and noticed the fuel economy markedly improved... for the first three tanks, then it went back to normal.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 3:29:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By xd45er:
Would you use a name brand conventional or a store brand full synthetic?

Assuming cost is the same.




Assuming cost is the same......name brand.

I've used a lot of Walmart brand full synthetic and I've been happy with it.

Currently using Rotella but thinking of switching to Penzoil Ultra. Hated Penzoil for years but hear that this Ultra stuff is some of the best on the market. Walmart now has the Ultra for $25 for 5 quarts. The Rotella is about $20 for 4 quarts.

Amsoil is good stuff but grossly over priced and I hate their marketing technique. Also hate the fact that I can't walk into a store locally and buy it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 3:30:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Amsoil is good stuff but grossly over priced and I hate their marketing technique. Also hate the fact that I can't walk into a store locally and buy it.


Purchase price/initial investment is a completely different animal from cost per unit, sorry to say.
Convenience is the ally of those who can't plan ahead, I agree.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 3:31:40 PM EDT
The store brand synthetics are made by name brands, it just depends where you're buying from.
So you're splitting hairs here. It is a little more of a case by case basis than a general answer, in all truthfulness.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 5:06:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2010 5:07:19 PM EDT by GoGo]

Originally Posted By Revelation68:
The store brand synthetics are made by name brands, it just depends where you're buying from.
So you're splitting hairs here. It is a little more of a case by case basis than a general answer, in all truthfulness.


Bingo. A "store brand" does not go to the expense of starting a refinery to sell full synthetic for a cheaper price than anyone else. They buy it from a major manufacturer- same thing with store brand food.

That being said, with oil we are dealing with not only the oil, but the additives as well. The additives wearing out and the fact the oil collects combustion refuse are the reason we change oil. The actual mineral oil base should not "wear out" under normal circumstances.

Unless you have a truly high performance engine the most critical factor is that you DO change it with the seasons or every 3-5K.

Just my humble advice- and you know what you paid for it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 5:17:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Revelation68:
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Amsoil is good stuff but grossly over priced and I hate their marketing technique. Also hate the fact that I can't walk into a store locally and buy it.


Purchase price/initial investment is a completely different animal from cost per unit, sorry to say.
Convenience is the ally of those who can't plan ahead, I agree.



I can buy it at the local parts store.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:56:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GoGo:

Originally Posted By Revelation68:
The store brand synthetics are made by name brands, it just depends where you're buying from.
So you're splitting hairs here. It is a little more of a case by case basis than a general answer, in all truthfulness.


Bingo. A "store brand" does not go to the expense of starting a refinery to sell full synthetic for a cheaper price than anyone else. They buy it from a major manufacturer- same thing with store brand food.

That being said, with oil we are dealing with not only the oil, but the additives as well. The additives wearing out and the fact the oil collects combustion refuse are the reason we change oil. The actual mineral oil base should not "wear out" under normal circumstances.

Unless you have a truly high performance engine the most critical factor is that you DO change it with the seasons or every 3-5K.

Just my humble advice- and you know what you paid for it.


So in your opinion, O'reilllys brand full synthetic will be just as good as a high dollar brand assuming Im changing every 3-5k and its just my normal
daily driver?

Ive never used synthetic but always used Castrol conventional products, seen a sale ad for the O'Reilly brand synthetic and it is cheaper,
so I was wondering if the "you get what you pay for" rule applied here.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 EDT
M1 @ Wal Mart $21 for a 5 qt jug.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:59:38 AM EDT
Just make sure its 100% full synthetic. A lot of companies will add x% to conventional oil and call it synthetic. Could be as low as 10%...
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 8:51:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By xd45er:
So in your opinion, O'reilllys brand full synthetic will be just as good as a high dollar brand assuming Im changing every 3-5k and its just my normal
daily driver?

Ive never used synthetic but always used Castrol conventional products, seen a sale ad for the O'Reilly brand synthetic and it is cheaper,
so I was wondering if the "you get what you pay for" rule applied here.


Depends what brand you are putting it up against.
Against one of the high quality commercial brands –– or "aftermarket" brands –– no, probably not.
But there have been some store brands, including Wal-Mart's, that test out quite well.

Ashland (Valvoline, etc.) tend to make a decent bit of the good store brands, I've found in the past.

What is your goal in running your oil?
Providing the most protection?
Lasting extended lengths?
A combination of both?

All I'll say is don't let price point be the main focal point in buying oil, for a number of reasons.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 8:52:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Just make sure its 100% full synthetic. A lot of companies will add x% to conventional oil and call it synthetic. Could be as low as 10%...


Yep, "full synthetic" is not the same as a true synthetic, unfortunately for us consumers.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 9:19:56 AM EDT
I'll take store-brand full synthetic if it's significantly cheaper than Mobil-1.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 10:01:47 AM EDT
just buy whatever your comfortable putting in your car. Personally I either run M1 or Royal Purple.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 2:42:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xd45er:
Originally Posted By GoGo:

Originally Posted By Revelation68:
The store brand synthetics are made by name brands, it just depends where you're buying from.
So you're splitting hairs here. It is a little more of a case by case basis than a general answer, in all truthfulness.


Bingo. A "store brand" does not go to the expense of starting a refinery to sell full synthetic for a cheaper price than anyone else. They buy it from a major manufacturer- same thing with store brand food.

That being said, with oil we are dealing with not only the oil, but the additives as well. The additives wearing out and the fact the oil collects combustion refuse are the reason we change oil. The actual mineral oil base should not "wear out" under normal circumstances.

Unless you have a truly high performance engine the most critical factor is that you DO change it with the seasons or every 3-5K.

Just my humble advice- and you know what you paid for it.


So in your opinion, O'reilllys brand full synthetic will be just as good as a high dollar brand assuming Im changing every 3-5k and its just my normal
daily driver?

Ive never used synthetic but always used Castrol conventional products, seen a sale ad for the O'Reilly brand synthetic and it is cheaper,
so I was wondering if the "you get what you pay for" rule applied here.

Correct. I sold my last car running fine except for needing its second clutch and second EGR valve at 200K. Oil was was changed every 3-5K, but I will admit it was straight conventional Dino Valvoline. It still lives last I heard past a quarter million. It was my daily driver and I beat the living snot out of it- Lord above knows the rev limiter worked like a charm. Current daily driver gets Synthetic most of the time.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:24:53 PM EDT
mobile 1
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:30:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Revelation68:
Originally Posted By tothemax:
Just make sure its 100% full synthetic. A lot of companies will add x% to conventional oil and call it synthetic. Could be as low as 10%...


Yep, "full synthetic" is not the same as a true synthetic, unfortunately for us consumers.


I believe it is, it's the "synthetic BLEND" that is a mix of Dino oil and lab brewed base. Castrol is famous for playing that game.

That said, M1 when wally world puts it on sale for $19 a 5 qt jug, most of the "car part" places have gone to a 4 qt container and WW has some of those also. I'll buy 10-15 jugs when it's on sale, not like it's going to go bad.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:42:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fxntime:

I believe it is, it's the "synthetic BLEND" that is a mix of Dino oil and lab brewed base. Castrol is famous for playing that game.

That said, M1 when wally world puts it on sale for $19 a 5 qt jug, most of the "car part" places have gone to a 4 qt container and WW has some of those also. I'll buy 10-15 jugs when it's on sale, not like it's going to go bad.


Unfortunately not.
Go look up the actual qualifications for being a synthetic –– not a blend.
Not 80% Group III stuff, and so on. Today, those products qualify thanks to the liberal judgment of the "synthetic" definition.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:43:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 7:44:12 PM EDT by Revelation68]
(double post)
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 10:06:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Revelation68:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
I believe it is, it's the "synthetic BLEND" that is a mix of Dino oil and lab brewed base. Castrol is famous for playing that game.
That said, M1 when wally world puts it on sale for $19 a 5 qt jug, most of the "car part" places have gone to a 4 qt container and WW has some of those also. I'll buy 10-15 jugs when it's on sale, not like it's going to go bad.

Unfortunately not.
Go look up the actual qualifications for being a synthetic –– not a blend.
Not 80% Group III stuff, and so on. Today, those products qualify thanks to the liberal judgment of the "synthetic" definition.

My understanding is that there are different grades or tiers of synthetics- some, such as Mobil-1, Amsoil, and RedLine, are the highest grade, some others are hydro-cracked and not "true" synthetics. Kind of like ARs, I guess.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 12:37:59 PM EDT
My local Walmart has Mobil 1 on sale for $21 for a gallon jug, all the time. Cheaper than the $27-$28 Autozone and Advanced want, and it's usually cheaper than other "full" synthetics that are sold at Wally world.

I run the 5w-20 in my truck.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 1:08:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scorpion40:
My local Walmart has Mobil 1 on sale for $21 for a gallon jug, all the time. Cheaper than the $27-$28 Autozone and Advanced want, and it's usually cheaper than other "full" synthetics that are sold at Wally world.

I run the 5w-20 in my truck.


Wally World has both the 4 qt and 5 qt jugs, often they are priced the same. Make sure you always grab the 5 qt ones. The Auto places almost always have the 4 qt ones at what used to be 5 qt prices. Sneaky way to up-price the product without raising the selling price.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 8:43:50 AM EDT
Been buying Mobile1 @ WM for the past 20 years.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 9:36:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CWS1911:
M1 @ Wal Mart $21 for a 5 qt jug.


This!

$4.20/quart when bought as a 5 quart jug vs. ~$6.40 bought individually.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 2:55:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TigerForce:
Originally Posted By Revelation68:
Originally Posted By fxntime:
I believe it is, it's the "synthetic BLEND" that is a mix of Dino oil and lab brewed base. Castrol is famous for playing that game.
That said, M1 when wally world puts it on sale for $19 a 5 qt jug, most of the "car part" places have gone to a 4 qt container and WW has some of those also. I'll buy 10-15 jugs when it's on sale, not like it's going to go bad.

Unfortunately not.
Go look up the actual qualifications for being a synthetic –– not a blend.
Not 80% Group III stuff, and so on. Today, those products qualify thanks to the liberal judgment of the "synthetic" definition.

My understanding is that there are different grades or tiers of synthetics- some, such as Mobil-1, Amsoil, and RedLine, are the highest grade, some others are hydro-cracked and not "true" synthetics. Kind of like ARs, I guess.


Mobil 1 is PAO (Group 4)
Amsoil & Redline are ester based (group 5)

Some companies have called group 3 oil "synthetic". It is made with mineral oil and highly refined. It is better than "normal" mineral oil, but it's not a true synthetic.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:41:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TigerForce:
My understanding is that there are different grades or tiers of synthetics- some, such as Mobil-1, Amsoil, and RedLine, are the highest grade, some others are hydro-cracked and not "true" synthetics. Kind of like ARs, I guess.


Originally Posted By not_sure:

Mobil 1 is PAO (Group 4)
Amsoil & Redline are ester based (group 5)

Some companies have called group 3 oil "synthetic". It is made with mineral oil and highly refined. It is better than "normal" mineral oil, but it's not a true synthetic.


Most of Mobil's products, if not all of them are not even Group IV. Their Extended Performance is probably the closest they have to 100% Group IV, but I don't even know if it is known that even this is true.
Amsoil is a Group IV oil. Redline is a Group V oil.
These groups refer to base stocks, normally. A Group III Mobil 1 may have a decent bit of Group IV additives, just as Amsoil may contain ester additives (V), and so on.
So the groups don't always mean that is ALL that the oil contains, but is generally something like the "minimum" grade oil contained.

The "grades" get a little fuzzy once you move to Group IV and V.
Group IV is PAO, whereas V is Ester-based. They are somewhat different animals, so it isn't a hierarchy at that point.
Mobil's products tend to be high III grades, but perform very well for most applications. So...high III (hydrocracked) - V grades you'll see some similarities in performance, etc.
This doesn't mean they are created equal, but just being general –– for most folks' needs.

FWIW, I think the U.S. is the only place that sub-Group IV oils are marketed as "synthetic", if that helps make a distinction in your mind.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:55:34 PM EDT
Anyone know anything about the Penzoil Ultra oil?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:20:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 6:23:55 AM EDT by Revelation68]
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Anyone know anything about the Penzoil Ultra oil?


From the UOA's I have seen it is a very good oil.
A definite upgrade from Platinum, it appears.

Is there anything specific you're wanting to know?
So far, it appear it is definitely a quality product.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:26:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Revelation68:
Originally Posted By TigerForce:
My understanding is that there are different grades or tiers of synthetics- some, such as Mobil-1, Amsoil, and RedLine, are the highest grade, some others are hydro-cracked and not "true" synthetics. Kind of like ARs, I guess.


Originally Posted By not_sure:

Mobil 1 is PAO (Group 4)
Amsoil & Redline are ester based (group 5)

Some companies have called group 3 oil "synthetic". It is made with mineral oil and highly refined. It is better than "normal" mineral oil, but it's not a true synthetic.


Most of Mobil's products, if not all of them are not even Group IV. Their Extended Performance is probably the closest they have to 100% Group IV, but I don't even know if it is known that even this is true.
Amsoil is a Group IV oil. Redline is a Group V oil.
These groups refer to base stocks, normally. A Group III Mobil 1 may have a decent bit of Group IV additives, just as Amsoil may contain ester additives (V), and so on.
So the groups don't always mean that is ALL that the oil contains, but is generally something like the "minimum" grade oil contained.

The "grades" get a little fuzzy once you move to Group IV and V.
Group IV is PAO, whereas V is Ester-based. They are somewhat different animals, so it isn't a hierarchy at that point.
Mobil's products tend to be high III grades, but perform very well for most applications. So...high III (hydrocracked) - V grades you'll see some similarities in performance, etc.
This doesn't mean they are created equal, but just being general –– for most folks' needs.

FWIW, I think the U.S. is the only place that sub-Group IV oils are marketed as "synthetic", if that helps make a distinction in your mind.


Mobil 1's MSDS says that the base stock it synthetic and the regional technical rep for Exxon-Mobil, when asked, said it was a PAO. While it is possible that he lied to me, I doubt it.

Evidently some of the Amsoil oils are Group III, according to their own website:
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/article_xl7500.aspx

Esters are more stable than PAO's, but for automotive use, the difference is unimportant. (if you hit those temps, your car is probably on fire) Esters have a wider range of what they can do, meaning for instance, you can get some secondary properties from them for special applications.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:55:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Revelation68:
Originally Posted By ColtRifle:
Anyone know anything about the Penzoil Ultra oil?


From the UOA's I have seen it is a very good oil.
A definite upgrade from Platinum, it appears.

Is there anything specific you're wanting to know?
So far, it appear it is definitely a quality product.




How does it compare to Rotella synthetic or other synthetic oils out there?

I have always hated Pennzoil but have heard that the Ultra is a pretty good oil. I've been using Rotella synthetic for while but saw that Walmart has the Ultra for the same price as Rotella.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:45:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 4:46:52 PM EDT by Revelation68]
Originally Posted By not_sure:

Mobil 1's MSDS says that the base stock it synthetic and the regional technical rep for Exxon-Mobil, when asked, said it was a PAO. While it is possible that he lied to me, I doubt it.

Evidently some of the Amsoil oils are Group III, according to their own website:
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/article_xl7500.aspx

Esters are more stable than PAO's, but for automotive use, the difference is unimportant. (if you hit those temps, your car is probably on fire) Esters have a wider range of what they can do, meaning for instance, you can get some secondary properties from them for special applications.


It is very possible (and probable) that some of M1's oils are Group IV base. How many, I don't know.
But just because they may have G-IV base stocks doesn't mean that 100% of the oil is that. In fact, many commercial oils that use G-IV base stocks apparently tend to have add-packs with G-III oils and other mixtures.
Sorry for the confusion, but I was being generic and referring to G-IV or better only contained in the oil.

Yes, Amsoil does have an XL line that is for "shorter" OCI's (compared to their other oils).
You'll notice that this is the oil line they DO NOT market as 100% synthetic.
This oil is probably going to be comparative to some of the better (if not best) oils the commercial brands put out.
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