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Posted: 8/11/2005 2:19:43 PM EDT
With no end in sight... at what point will oil prices be brought back to sensible levels? Seriously, how much can the global economy handle without imploding? Or have oil prices been artifically low for the past couple of decades?

Oil prices have sky rocketed from the mid $30/ barrel in late '03 to well over $60 this week. I find it hard to believe that China's increased consumption levels are the only reason. Are the pumping capacities and shipping capacities that sensitive to China's current demands?

I am of the opinion that an all out war will erupt over this and/ or some major global changes. And not the ones as a result of canned sunshine. Though I believe canned sunshine will be used.

I give it to 2010, max.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:26:16 PM EDT
Well the rising prices aren't due to production problem, but due to refining problems. An article yesterday said that OPEC is producing more oil now than they have since 1979.


US Commodities: Oil Prices Extend Rally, Hit Record $66


Thursday August 11, 5:34 PM EDT

NEW YORK -(Dow Jones)- Oil prices extended their recent rally Thursday, briefly hitting $66 a barrel as refinery outages proliferated and supply worries grew.

"The various refinery issues are a factor, but the trend is very strong,"
said Chris McCormack, a broker and analyst at ABN Amro in New York. "It's all momentum now. There are no sellers, and there is new technical buying again."

The front-month September contract on the New York Mercantile Exchange jumped $1.10 to $66 a barrel for the first time before settling 90 cents higher on the day at $65.80 a barrel.

Petroleum products futures set records of their own. September heating oil advanced to $1.9040 a gallon before finishing at $1.8985, up 5.97 cents a gallon. September gasoline climbed to $1.9525 a gallon before settling with a gain of 5.35 cents at $1.9498 a gallon.



Treasury Secretary John Snow expressed the administration's longstanding opposition to tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reserve in a bid to push prices lower.

"I don't think it would be advisable," Snow said on CNBC. "That's really off the table for circumstances like those we're facing now."

He added that the U.S. economy has "absorbed these high prices well, and I think we can continue to do so, but they certainly don't help."

September natural gas rose 23.0 cents to close at $9.290 a million British thermal units.

London afternoon gold traded at $440.75 versus $436.55 Wednesday.

Spot gold in New York rose $8.70 to $444.80 an ounce.

December gold settled at $450.90, up $8.90.

September silver settled at $7.183, up 10.5 cents.

October platinum settled at $919.70, up $12.20.

September palladium settled at $188.50, up 80 cents.

Comex copper futures settled higher Thursday at the Nymex. Benchmark September copper settled up 1.25 cents at $1.6470 per pound.

Arabica coffee futures moved higher, but remained range-bound, on the New York Board of Trade. The market majority is looking for a downward revision in the Brazilian crop in a forecast scheduled for release on Friday. The September contract settled up 105 points at $1.0675, while the December futures rose 100 points to $1.1150.

Fund selling that drove prices into sell stops took Nybot cocoa futures to fresh contract lows amid mostly beneficial weather and a lack of serious political tension or violence in Ivory Coast, sources said.

Most-active September cocoa fell $43 to $1,356 a metric ton, and December ended $40 lower at $1,392 a ton. The contracts all closed near their lows.

World raw sugar futures chopped back and forth in mostly local action Thursday at the Nybot before finally finishing with a small gain.

Nybot October sugar settled 2 points higher at 9.85 cents a pound, while March finished up 5 points at 10.07 cents.

Chicago Board of Trade wheat and corn futures end firm while soybean futures drifted lower in relatively quiet pre-crop report positioning, traders said.

Corn futures finished at modestly higher levels Thursday in quiet activity, as the market looks ahead to Friday's U.S. Department of Agriculture reports for market direction.

Thursday's activity was not surprising, noted Dale Durchholz, an analyst with AgriVisor Services in Bloomington, Ill. "People are content to square the books, sit back and wait for tomorrow's reports," he said.

September corn settled 2 cents higher to $2.25 per bushel, December corn advanced 1 3/4 cents to $2.38 1/4, and March corn rose 1 1/4 cents to $2.47 1/4.

Pre-crop report position squaring produced a quiet two-sided trading session Thursday, with soybean futures finishing the day at modestly lower levels.

November soybeans ended 2 1/2 cents lower at $6.50 1/4, December soymeal settled $0.50 higher at $206.40 a short ton, while December soyoil ended 7 points lower at 22.91 cents a pound.

U.S. wheat futures settled higher Thursday following gains in corn futures and with continued position squaring ahead of Friday's U.S. Department of Agriculture crop reports, brokers said.

September wheat ended up 2 3/4 cents at $3.26 1/4 per bushel, and December wheat ended up 5 cents at $3.42 1/2.

Kansas City Board of Trade September wheat closed up 8 cents at $3.42 1/2, and MGE September wheat closed up 3 1/4 cents at $3.39 1/2.

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

08-11-05 1734ET

Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:27:27 PM EDT
when i paid $1.25 a gallon
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:27:31 PM EDT
it is out of control already.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:29:10 PM EDT
Ballard anyone? Alternative energy is the new wave.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:30:24 PM EDT
Makes me wonder if 20 years from now everybody looks back at 2005-2006 like it was 1929.

We can't possibly absorb much more of this.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:30:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
it is out of control already.



+1
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:35:10 PM EDT
on squawk box a couple of days ago they said there was between 15 and 20 dollars of speculation in the current price. Thank the free market system for the current high price!!! (not in anyway endorsing anything else, just pointing out a fact)
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 2:51:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cck:
on squawk box a couple of days ago they said there was between 15 and 20 dollars of speculation in the current price. Thank the free market system for the current high price!!! (not in anyway endorsing anything else, just pointing out a fact)



I agree. I believe that most of the high prices we're seeing for oil are the result of speculation.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:12:39 PM EDT
exactly. there's no shortage, it's just that every bit of news from the mideast freaks out the traders and speculators.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:15:22 PM EDT
It's already out of control.

For example, the other day I was discussing new trucks with someone and I mentioned I was conisdering the i-4 or v6 instead of the v8. Because of gas.

It's a crazy world.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 3:17:05 PM EDT
Europe pays twice what we do. As we spend more of our disposable income on fuel, our trading partners are going to feel it more than we will.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:27:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
Europe pays twice what we do. As we spend more of our disposable income on fuel, our trading partners are going to feel it more than we will.


They pay the same price for oil that we do. Their regimes tax the hell out of the gasoline, however.

This is not supply and demand at work, this is artifical price pushing. Why exactly is oil being traded on the futures market? There is a glut of oil right now because of refinery capacity. If there was supply and demand, oil would drop considerably because less of it is needed.

Stop selling oil on the futures market and the price will become reasonable again. $66 per barrel? WTF?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:31:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:31:22 PM EDT
Please, whatever you do, don't say the oil companies are price gouging.
The poor oil barons are eating ramen noodles don't ya know.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:35:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By VTwin60:
it is out of control already.



+1


+2
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:35:28 PM EDT
I drive an F-150.
It costs me $60 to fill the tank now.
That doesnt get me through one week of commuting.
My monthly gasoline costs are $350-400.

I draw the line at $75
When gas prices rise to the point where it costs me $75 every few days, Im done.
I will seriously stop driving to and from work and find some alternative method of transportation.

I will not spend more than $500 a fucking month to fatten some saudi arabian assholes coffers.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:44:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:
I will not spend more than $500 a fucking month to fatten some saudi arabian assholes coffers.


We don't buy any Saudi Arabian oil.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:45:48 PM EDT
the end is near
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:52:36 PM EDT
One of the last things hielo said here before he disappeared again was that he was betting on $65/barrel oil. At the time I thought he must know what he is talking about but it was still hard to swallow.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:54:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cck:
on squawk box a couple of days ago they said there was between 15 and 20 dollars of speculation in the current price. Thank the free market system for the current high price!!! (not in anyway endorsing anything else, just pointing out a fact)



Market traders are behind the jump in prices. I really believe they are manipulating the market for short term profits. I wouldn't bet against round table trading either. This is not just US but world pricing. OPEN ALASKA!!! There is not a shortage in any sense of the word.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:55:18 PM EDT
Get used to it, I doubt we will see prices for gas below $2 a gallon for any length of time, if we see it again at all.



Link Posted: 8/11/2005 4:59:22 PM EDT
If/when we hit the $90+/bbl pricing, look for serious trouble in the economy. Price increases to offset margin losses will cause the middle class financial problems with credit, installment loans...you name it.

HH
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:02:20 PM EDT
US oil prices artifially low relative to most of the western world.

This is gonna suck, even though this is just the usual summer oil bubble.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:07:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 5:08:08 PM EDT by sixgunsblazing]

Originally Posted By Ben70:
US oil prices artifially low relative to most of the western world.

This is gonna suck, even though this is just the usual summer oil bubble.


NO- the rest of the western world artificialy taxes the shit out of fuel to fund massive social programs.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:11:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ben70:
US oil prices artifially low relative to most of the western world.

This is gonna suck, even though this is just the usual summer oil bubble.



Cost is WORLD prices, as in global. What, you really think all that "free" health care and welfare shit in Europe is free? Tax on gas is a big way they pay for it.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:12:24 PM EDT
The high prices are tough on the USA, but they will really wreak havoc on the european countries over the long term. Their cost/price goes up proportionally and the taxes they build into their already high pump price is even tougher on them. Who knows where this might lead...
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:16:46 PM EDT
I heard 70-75 per barrel on the radio today. Buy some oil stocks and watch it daily. If it starts turning dump it and profit take. It will help offset the cost of filling up those F150's, Explorers (my wife's ride) and Expeditions. Hell, it cost me $30 to fill up my Sebring and I traded my other Explorer in on it just to save money on the commute.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:32:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kroagnon:
We don't buy any Saudi Arabian oil.



Whose oil do we buy then?

Russian oil?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:41:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:

Whose oil do we buy then?

Russian oil?



Quiet, you!

Don't bring informed debate & discussion into GD!

two points.
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:51:34 PM EDT
All we really need to do is:

1)Shut the left up. Deport them..
2)Deport the Enviromentalist to China.
3)Build a 100 new oil refineries before 2008
4)Open ALL areas of the country to drilling.. Yes ALL..
5)If other countries cry foul.. Nuke Em...



I'm not asking for too much..
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 5:53:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ben70:
US oil prices artifially low relative to most of the western world.

This is gonna suck, even though this is just the usual summer oil bubble.



+1, its been worse.

Anyone remember Carter?
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 6:01:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2005 6:02:09 PM EDT by macro]
Just to put a few facts into the discussion..........



The USA imports about 55% of its oil needs.

Sources of U.S. Oil Imports (millions of barrels per day): Canada: 1.79 - Saudi Arabia: 1.66 - Venezuela: 1.54 - Mexico: 1.42 - Nigeria: .86 - Iraq: .78 - Norway: .33 - Angola: .32 - United Kingdom: .31 - Total: 11.62. (Source: Energy Information Administration).

Sources of U.S. Oil Imports (%): Saudi Arabia: 16.9% - Mexico: 15.1% - Canada: 15.0% - Venezuela: 14.4% - Iraq: 11.4% - Nigeria: 5.9.%.

About 30% of the USA's oil imports came from Arab countries in 2002. Since USA oil imports are about 55% of USA oil consumption, only about 15% of USA's oil consumption is provided by Arab countries.

About 40% of oil in the USA is used to produce gasoline.

Strategic Oil reserves
USA: 658 millions of barrels
Japan: 321
Germany: 191
South Korea: 77
France: 71

The largest oil companies by production (barrels per day):
Exxon Mobil (USA) 2,542
Royal Dutch Shell (UK/Neth) 2,220
Chevron Texaco (USA) 1,959
British Petroleum Amoco (UK) 1,931
Yukos (Russia) 1,507
Total Fina Elf (France) 1,454
Lukoil (Russia) 1,200
ConocoPhillips (USA) 1,019
Surgutneftegas (Russia) 884
ENI (Italy) 857

Source: USA Department of Energy
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:34:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

Originally Posted By cck:
on squawk box a couple of days ago they said there was between 15 and 20 dollars of speculation in the current price. Thank the free market system for the current high price!!! (not in anyway endorsing anything else, just pointing out a fact)



Market traders are behind the jump in prices. I really believe they are manipulating the market for short term profits. I wouldn't bet against round table trading either. This is not just US but world pricing. OPEN ALASKA!!! There is not a shortage in any sense of the word.



Exactly. Seems like the speculators will use any reason whatsoever to bid up oil right now. Rosie O'donnell could announce that she wants to be conservative and strait, and speculators would use it as a sign that oil prices need to be bid up higher.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:47:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Win_88:
All we really need to do is:

1)Shut the left up. Deport them..
2)Deport the Enviromentalist to China.
3)Build a 100 new oil refineries before 2008
4)Open ALL areas of the country to drilling.. Yes ALL..
5)If other countries cry foul.. Nuke Em...



I'm not asking for too much..



Win, I think this is a bit of an overreaction.

I mean, what has China done to deserve getting our idiots dumped on them?
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:53:51 AM EDT
Hey guys,

All this stuff is cyclic. And, we as a world are capable of MUCXH more efficient usage of fossil fuels.

The reality is, the only reason so much of our energy needs are filled by OIL is cause it is SO CHEAP.

At a certain price point clean coal, nuclear, even solar become cost effective and THAT reduces demand on oil and the price of oil.

The last 50 years has been one of low cost energy with abundant oil and a majority of the planet still pre-tech. Well, that is changing and so will price structures.

If you could time travel forward 50 years you would probably see:

Cars mostly using electric engines. Look, MOST of us MOST of the time don't need anything more than a commute vehicle that can bring home groceries and the kids. For long trips or moving we could rent a vehicle. When the price of energy rises enough we will and we will REVEL in our new 2055 Ford Moverato.

Houses will be superinsulated and use a third of the energy they do today. Most appliances can be improved on power wise but right now the cheap power makes it stupid to do. The advanced technology isn't offset by the energy savings. Admit it - how many of you even READ the annual energy cost thingy on appliances?

In truth in 2055 the USA could be energy independant. Nukes, coal and our own oil reserves can meet our needs if used right.

So don't feel like the end of the world is coming. Just another shift in how we use the resources the planet offers.

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 6:59:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:
Just to put a few facts into the discussion..........



The USA imports about 55% of its oil needs.

Sources of U.S. Oil Imports (millions of barrels per day): Canada: 1.79 - Saudi Arabia: 1.66 - Venezuela: 1.54 - Mexico: 1.42 - Nigeria: .86 - Iraq: .78 - Norway: .33 - Angola: .32 - United Kingdom: .31 - Total: 11.62. (Source: Energy Information Administration).

Sources of U.S. Oil Imports (%): Saudi Arabia: 16.9% - Mexico: 15.1% - Canada: 15.0% - Venezuela: 14.4% - Iraq: 11.4% - Nigeria: 5.9.%.

About 30% of the USA's oil imports came from Arab countries in 2002. Since USA oil imports are about 55% of USA oil consumption, only about 15% of USA's oil consumption is provided by Arab countries.

About 40% of oil in the USA is used to produce gasoline.




Importing oil isn't such a bad thing since it keeps us from blowing all of our own reserves. Tis better to blow somebody else's reserves instead!
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:11:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 7:22:00 AM EDT by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Please, whatever you do, don't say the oil companies are price gouging.
The poor oil barons are eating ramen noodles don't ya know.



The oil barons are selling at what futures traders are buying it at. It doesn't come with a UPC code on the barrel from the pump you know. I'm sure they love it, but they also can't really want to see it go sky high either. If it does there will be a shift to other sources and that will pull the carpet out from under them.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:17:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
Hey guys,

All this stuff is cyclic. And, we as a world are capable of MUCXH more efficient usage of fossil fuels.

The reality is, the only reason so much of our energy needs are filled by OIL is cause it is SO CHEAP.

At a certain price point clean coal, nuclear, even solar become cost effective and THAT reduces demand on oil and the price of oil.

The last 50 years has been one of low cost energy with abundant oil and a majority of the planet still pre-tech. Well, that is changing and so will price structures.

If you could time travel forward 50 years you would probably see:

Cars mostly using electric engines. Look, MOST of us MOST of the time don't need anything more than a commute vehicle that can bring home groceries and the kids. For long trips or moving we could rent a vehicle. When the price of energy rises enough we will and we will REVEL in our new 2055 Ford Moverato.

Houses will be superinsulated and use a third of the energy they do today. Most appliances can be improved on power wise but right now the cheap power makes it stupid to do. The advanced technology isn't offset by the energy savings. Admit it - how many of you even READ the annual energy cost thingy on appliances?

In truth in 2055 the USA could be energy independant. Nukes, coal and our own oil reserves can meet our needs if used right.

So don't feel like the end of the world is coming. Just another shift in how we use the resources the planet offers.




I agree with JimmyB 100% but would like to emphasize that he calls for MARKET BASED conservation, and INCREASED PRODUCTION.

Government simply getting out of the way should be their primary focus.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:19:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Please, whatever you do, don't say the oil companies are price gouging.
The poor oil barons are eating ramen noodles don't ya know.



The oil barons are selling at what futures traders are buying it at. It doesn't come with a UPC code on the barrel from the pump you know. I'm sure they love it, but they also can't really want to see it go sky high either, if it does there will be a shift to other sources and that will pull the carpet out from under them.



Logic and Economic Reality has no place in a discussion about high gas prices.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:23:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Makes me wonder if 20 years from now everybody looks back at 2005-2006 like it was 1929.

We can't possibly absorb much more of this.



I agree... 100%
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:28:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 7:29:51 AM EDT by senorFrog]
In the past liberals have told us we should be more like other countries on various issues. Now we have a taste of EUROPEAN GAS PRICES.

ANYTIME YOU FILL UP NOW AND FORK OVER $40-75 DOLLARS, REMEMBER WHEN A LIBERAL HAS TOLD YOU WE NEED TO CHANGE THE WAY WE DO THINGS, BECAUSE IT'S BETTER IN EUROPE/SCANDANVIA/CANADA.

This applies to healthcare, gay marriage, euthanasia, capital punishment, gun control, etc, etc, etc.



Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:29:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
Hey guys,

All this stuff is cyclic. And, we as a world are capable of MUCXH more efficient usage of fossil fuels.

The reality is, the only reason so much of our energy needs are filled by OIL is cause it is SO CHEAP.

At a certain price point clean coal, nuclear, even solar become cost effective and THAT reduces demand on oil and the price of oil.

The last 50 years has been one of low cost energy with abundant oil and a majority of the planet still pre-tech. Well, that is changing and so will price structures.

If you could time travel forward 50 years you would probably see:

Cars mostly using electric engines. Look, MOST of us MOST of the time don't need anything more than a commute vehicle that can bring home groceries and the kids. For long trips or moving we could rent a vehicle. When the price of energy rises enough we will and we will REVEL in our new 2055 Ford Moverato.

Houses will be superinsulated and use a third of the energy they do today. Most appliances can be improved on power wise but right now the cheap power makes it stupid to do. The advanced technology isn't offset by the energy savings. Admit it - how many of you even READ the annual energy cost thingy on appliances?

In truth in 2055 the USA could be energy independant. Nukes, coal and our own oil reserves can meet our needs if used right.

So don't feel like the end of the world is coming. Just another shift in how we use the resources the planet offers.




I agree with JimmyB 100% but would like to emphasize that he calls for MARKET BASED conservation, and INCREASED PRODUCTION.

Government simply getting out of the way should be their primary focus.



And dont forget that we have enough oil in tar sands in USA and Canada to be energy independent. The sticking point has always been the high cose of recovery, but if prices stay high then there is an incentive to develop them. On another note, I am never giving up my modified 500hp 03 Cobra for a slow, unsafe tin box grocery getter.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:34:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
Please, whatever you do, don't say the oil companies are price gouging.
The poor oil barons are eating ramen noodles don't ya know.



The oil barons are selling at what futures traders are buying it at. It doesn't come with a UPC code on the barrel from the pump you know. I'm sure they love it, but they also can't really want to see it go sky high either, if it does there will be a shift to other sources and that will pull the carpet out from under them.



Logic and Economic Reality has no place in a discussion about high gas prices.



People around here are getting hysterical about it. They are all convinced it's Bush and a global plot to rape them at the pump. When I ask how many are considering purchasing smaller cars / hybrids / diesel several will say they are. I ask if that seems like what "big oil" would want.... smaller engines and alternative fuels..... and I get blank stares or simply repeating that gas was cheap when Clinton was in office.

Yes, It's hurting me too. My F'n gas budget has doubled and is on it's way to tripple with construction issues and increasing prices. But that's the current market, and I don't expect them to lower the price or blast out oil flat out to ease my commute. The market WILL adjust and compensate.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 7:56:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Arlis:
One of the last things hielo said here before he disappeared again was that he was betting on $65/barrel oil. At the time I thought he must know what he is talking about but it was still hard to swallow.



Dude, I've heard some folks say $100/barrel before this little "hiccup" subsides.

It is speculation, pure and simple, and the fact that we're still buying gas, no matter how expensive it gets, has the oil companies laughing all the way to the bank.

I've got a 12 mile daily commute, total...so I only need to fill up every 10 days to 2 weeks. The last two times I got gas, the difference was about .10/gallon each time. I'll be getting gas next week again, I can't wait to see how much more it costs me.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:01:41 AM EDT
Its alread waaayyy out of control.

We need a intervention soon. The impact on the middle class (me) is going to get so freakin bad.

What really pisses me off is I can remember just a little under 2 years ago when Diesel was $.99 a gallon, I pain $2.85 the other day, and its a by-product? It easier to mfg? WTF????

No vacation for us this summer, why? FUEL costs. This keeps it up, I'll put a friggin couch in my office and just sleep here all week to keep from driving back and forth.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:02:42 AM EDT
Hey Cobra,

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what to drive. However, market forces will lead most people to different lifestyles.

I remember when cars got 4-6 miles per gallon. Remember the Cobra 428? Sweeeeet. Not many driven regularly today.

If gasoline goes to $10 a gallon and you wish to pay that much for the pleasure of driving your Cobra then do it. Just as if someone still wants to drive their 10 MPG 1970 ElDorado every day it is their choice.

I for one passed the stage where I feel any need to impress with what I drive, or the need for performace in a device meant to get me from point a to b. I want comfort, reliablity, and safety. I am seriously eyeing the Pruis except for three things. It is really small and uncomfortable, it is butt ugly, and it isn't really a serious break through technology yet. Yeah, I don't need to impress but true ugly must be recognized.

When electric cars that go 200 miles on a charge and let you use the AC are here, assuming the cost of a charge is lower than equivelent gasoline, I will buy one. I'm not set in my ways.

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:14:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2005 8:17:15 AM EDT by Torf]

Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
I for one passed the stage where I feel any need to impress with what I drive, or the need for performace in a device meant to get me from point a to b. I want comfort, reliablity, and safety. I am seriously eyeing the Pruis except for three things. It is really small and uncomfortable, it is butt ugly, and it isn't really a serious break through technology yet. Yeah, I don't need to impress but true ugly must be recognized.



I made the jump.

First of all, the Prius isn't small, It is a mid-size car. The interior is about the same as a Toyota Camry.
It is also pretty comfortable. The seats are good in my opinion, although I suppose everyone has different preferences. The amenities are also very good. For the price, you get just about everything a high end car has.

Vehicle Stability Control - Yes
HID Headlamps - Yes
Smart Key - Yes
ABS - Standard
A/C - Standard
Automatic transmission - Standard
DVD Nav/Bluetooth - Available

I got mine for 23k and it had everything but the 6 disc changer and Nav/Bluetooth system.

Sorry, the looks can't be helped. Some like 'em, and some don't. The only thing I dislike is the tall headlights. The car looks great from the back IMO.

Really, I suggest you test drive one before writing them off completely. MAJOR tax incentives are available for those who take delivery early next year.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:17:10 AM EDT
In reality there are no theories in economics. This is what is needed to keep the general public uninformed. If someone with a Phd. hands you a lot of inane drivel, it must be correct because he/she has those nice letters attached to their name.

There are a number of reasons for oil going higher and exceeding its present levels. One is that since the early 90’s, 3 billion people started to enter the 21st century. Another issue is the fact that the Saudi’s appear to have about 1/3 the amount of reserves we previously thought.

Try this article, ‘War with China, Sorry I meant Iraq’ at www.restoretherepublic.org
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 8:22:45 AM EDT
Hey Torf,

SORRY. I know ugly is in the eyes of the beholder.

Actually, the comfort issue is one I have with many cars. I like sitting UP. Not like a sportsd car. I like my legs at a 90 degree angle at the knee going down. My Jeep Grand does this well as do most large pickups.

Some luxury cars also have a higher seating position I can handle. My wife has an older Mercedes E 320 which is good for me.

Truth is if I had garage space for another car I would park the Jeep for occasional use or for offroad to shooting events and drive a 5 year old Honda Civic or the like. It won't ge the same 50 mpg the Prius does but I'd get the car for a lot less and who cares if it depreciates?

But comfort is an issue. Yeah, I may have sold the Prius short. I didn't actually drive one.

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 10:22:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
Hey Cobra,

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what to drive. However, market forces will lead most people to different lifestyles.

I remember when cars got 4-6 miles per gallon. Remember the Cobra 428? Sweeeeet. Not many driven regularly today.

If gasoline goes to $10 a gallon and you wish to pay that much for the pleasure of driving your Cobra then do it. Just as if someone still wants to drive their 10 MPG 1970 ElDorado every day it is their choice.

I for one passed the stage where I feel any need to impress with what I drive, or the need for performace in a device meant to get me from point a to b. I want comfort, reliablity, and safety. I am seriously eyeing the Pruis except for three things. It is really small and uncomfortable, it is butt ugly, and it isn't really a serious break through technology yet. Yeah, I don't need to impress but true ugly must be recognized.

When electric cars that go 200 miles on a charge and let you use the AC are here, assuming the cost of a charge is lower than equivelent gasoline, I will buy one. I'm not set in my ways.




I dont drive a high performance car to impress anyone. After beating cancer only to have my wife die in my arms from a heart attack my attitude toward life changed dramatically. I dont put off experiencing things because I dont count on tommorrow. Which is why I recently went on a 7-day cruise to Alaska and why I enjoy every minute of my travel from point a to point b in my kick-ass Cobra.
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