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Posted: 8/7/2005 2:51:42 PM EDT
Louisiana, Maine transfer to Bangor

By Christopher Munsey
Times staff writer

The Ohio-class ballistic missile submarines Louisiana and Maine will transfer from Kings Bay, Ga., to Bangor, Wash., this year, completing a re-alignment of the Navy’s Trident submarine fleet dictated by the 2001 nuclear posture review.

Louisiana will leave Kings Bay in August, while Maine will leave later this year, said Lt. Cmdr. Monica Richardson, spokeswoman for Commander, Submarine Group 10.

The transfer will complete the shift of four SSBNs from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Pennsylvania shifted from Kings Bay in September 2002, followed by Nebraska in September 2004.

The moves leave five SSBNs homeported at Kings Bay, including Rhode Island, Tennessee, West Virginia, Maryland and Wyoming.

Once the moves are complete, nine SSBNs will be homeported in Bangor.

The transfer involves the movement of about 1,100 sailors and family members to Bangor, Richardson said.

Despite the shifts, Kings Bay should be growing in the future.

Two of the four former SSBNs being converted to guided-missile SSGNs will be homeported there, Richardson said.

If the Pentagon’s base closure recommendations are adopted, the base will gain an undetermined number of fast-attack submarines, and serve as the new home for the Naval Submarine School.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:56:46 PM EDT
Shit. We already got more work than we can shake a stick at.

The OT is frikken killing me as it is.

Oh well. The paychecks are nice.

Chris
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:58:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
Shit. We already got more work than we can shake a stick at.

The OT is frikken killing me as it is.

Oh well. The paychecks are nice.

Chris



please tell me you arent crying about time and a half, assuming youre a shipyard worker
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:00:02 PM EDT
You guys hiring?
I have zero shipyard and shipfitting experince, but I do have an active TC clearence.


Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
Shit. We already got more work than we can shake a stick at.

The OT is frikken killing me as it is.

Oh well. The paychecks are nice.

Chris

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:01:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
You guys hiring?
I have zero shipyard and shipfitting experince, but I do have an active TC clearence.


Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
Shit. We already got more work than we can shake a stick at.

The OT is frikken killing me as it is.

Oh well. The paychecks are nice.

Chris





Heres a day at work: show up later than everyone else, bullshit til it is almost time to leave, then ask ships force why something isnt done/tagged out already so you can sit around for 3-6 more hours collecting overtime for an hours worth of actual work
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:27:27 PM EDT


please tell me you arent crying about time and a half, assuming youre a shipyard worker


Yes, I am a shipfitter.

And I am currently only a WG3, so the paycheck even with time and a half isn't a pot 'o gold at the end of the rainbow.


Originally Posted By MDC85:
Heres a day at work: show up later than everyone else, bullshit til it is almost time to leave, then ask ships force why something isnt done/tagged out already so you can sit around for 3-6 more hours collecting overtime for an hours worth of actual work



There is a bullshit flag on the play, minus five yards, repeat first down.

Try this.

Show up for work bright and early, put up with an asshole boss who's actual deckplate experience lies somewhere between "I used to be Gas Free/nuke/ admin" and "Whats a deckplate?". Go straight out to the boat with your TGI only to find Zone manager badge nazi's getting paid 4 times as much as I am to make sure that everybody runs a special little badge through a little laser reader (much like the ones at a supermarket) so they know when you are on or off the boat, do hot, nasty, dirty, hard assed work grinding big pieces of metal into small pieces of metal, holding steel in place while Weldors try to tack them in place but invariably accidentally try to strike an arc on your arm instead of the metal, deal with snot nosed little sailor boys who think they are god because they get to carry around a Beretta and a Mossberg shotgun and expect you to get the fuck out of their way even though you are trying your damndest to fit in a pipe hanger on a missle tube in the middle of the walkway, have to sooth ruffled Shop 38 feathers because they think their shit don't stink, put up with attitudinal weldors who think its okay to throw a fit and walk off the jobsite simply because you told them to tack a piece in contrary to how THEY think it should be tacked, put up with ships officers asking stupid questions day in and day out, trying to complete a job with everybody and their brother claiming that their job takes priority even though Shop 11 is listed in the TGI as the lead shop, and at the end of the day, we also have to put up with lazy assed Todd and EB contractors who's idea of fitting is "Its at a quarter of an inch, fuck it, tack it!".

You can take that spoiled sailor boy crap and shove it where the sun don't shine. I have encountered exactly 4 sailors who were interested in helping and smoothing things along, who were eager to hand a tool, plug in an airhose, sit and bullshit during smoke break without thinking that they are better than everyone else, general all around good guy sailors. Yup, thats right, after over a year there, only 4. They were competent, friendly, helped work progress instead of trying to shut us down all the time kind of guys. It was nice to encounter a few sailors who knew the difference between the color of carbon arc smoke and actual fire smoke. We get asked at least once a week if we are lighting the place on fire when the weldors carbon arc, and once, one of the little snippety jackass sailors sounded the fire alarm without even asking, thereby shutting the whole project down for an hour while the fire department showed up. Yup, they evacuated the whole fucking boat because of that little stunt.

Chris (Shipfitter currently suffering from POSS)
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:28:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 3:29:38 PM EDT by GrumpyM4]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
You guys hiring?
I have zero shipyard and shipfitting experince, but I do have an active TC clearence.



Yup, they are hiring. You being former active duty will have a let up in the process as well.

But my advise would be to go into the riggers shop or the tin benders (S/17).

Shipfitting sucks.

Chris
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:31:32 PM EDT
Moving all the boats to confront the PRC I see.

But they better hope the ABM system really works if they are all going to crowd into one place like that.

And how close is Bangor to the Seattle container terminal?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:49:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 3:52:10 PM EDT by MDC85]
you're right, god damn officers shouldn't be asking you questions about what in the fuck youre doing on their boat.

remember, THE CREW takes the ship to sea, NOT YOU......tell yourself that the next time you get pissed at someone for asking you why you're there.

and us "sailor boys" aren't there to be nice to you or lift a finger for you.

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:05:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:

You can take that spoiled sailor boy crap and shove it where the sun don't shine. I have encountered exactly 4 sailors who were interested in helping and smoothing things along, who were eager to hand a tool, plug in an airhose, sit and bullshit during smoke break without thinking that they are better than everyone else, general all around good guy sailors. Yup, thats right, after over a year there, only 4. They were competent, friendly, helped work progress instead of trying to shut us down all the time kind of guys. It was nice to encounter a few sailors who knew the difference between the color of carbon arc smoke and actual fire smoke. We get asked at least once a week if we are lighting the place on fire when the weldors carbon arc, and once, one of the little snippety jackass sailors sounded the fire alarm without even asking, thereby shutting the whole project down for an hour while the fire department showed up. Yup, they evacuated the whole fucking boat because of that little stunt.

Chris (Shipfitter currently suffering from POSS)


I'm an officer, so I'm supposed to be nice and not use terms like yardbirds. However, I WILL NEVER require one of my sailors to ASK FUCKING PERMISSION from anyone to sound a fire alarm. We have too few ships, all of which cost the American taxpayer $1 billion dollars. My sailors are to err on the side of caution when it comes to fire. If you ever went to see on a ship you would know exactly why. Sailors fear fire more than flooding, and there is a reason for that, a very damn good reason.

BTW, my sailors are not your FUCKING assistants. They have their own jobs. Usually making sure yardworkers aren't stealing their tools and setting their ship on fire, or violating safety proceedures, like dragging their damn airhoses through fireboundaries that haven't been cleared to be left open.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:08:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
we also have to put up with lazy assed Todd and EB contractors who's idea of fitting is "Its at a quarter of an inch, fuck it, tack it!".

Chris (Shipfitter currently suffering from POSS)




Sounds familiar, I can remember a few boats fresh from being built at EB, that went straight to Portsmouth Naval Shipyard for overhaul to correct the fuckups. My Father has worked their for 25 years.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:16:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:

You can take that spoiled sailor boy crap and shove it where the sun don't shine. I have encountered exactly 4 sailors who were interested in helping and smoothing things along, who were eager to hand a tool, plug in an airhose, sit and bullshit during smoke break without thinking that they are better than everyone else, general all around good guy sailors. Yup, thats right, after over a year there, only 4. They were competent, friendly, helped work progress instead of trying to shut us down all the time kind of guys. It was nice to encounter a few sailors who knew the difference between the color of carbon arc smoke and actual fire smoke. We get asked at least once a week if we are lighting the place on fire when the weldors carbon arc, and once, one of the little snippety jackass sailors sounded the fire alarm without even asking, thereby shutting the whole project down for an hour while the fire department showed up. Yup, they evacuated the whole fucking boat because of that little stunt.

Chris (Shipfitter currently suffering from POSS)


I'm an officer, so I'm supposed to be nice and not use terms like yardbirds. However, I WILL NEVER require one of my sailors to ASK FUCKING PERMISSION from anyone to sound a fire alarm. We have too few ships, all of which cost the American taxpayer $1 billion dollars. My sailors are to err on the side of caution when it comes to fire. If you ever went to see on a ship you would know exactly why. Sailors fear fire more than flooding, and there is a reason for that, a very damn good reason.

BTW, my sailors are not your FUCKING assistants. They have their own jobs. Usually making sure yardworkers aren't stealing their tools and setting their ship on fire, or violating safety proceedures, like dragging their damn airhoses through fireboundaries that haven't been cleared to be left open.




Amen. I haven't been to sea as long as some of you guys, but I had to learn quick.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:27:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Moving all the boats to confront the PRC I see.

But they better hope the ABM system really works if they are all going to crowd into one place like that.

And how close is Bangor to the Seattle container terminal?



It is on the otherside of the sound. 6 to 7 miles away. Seattle has Microsoft HQ + Boeing's 767 and 747 plant + the pacific fleet balistic missile subs = toast.

Bangor is on the island west of downtown seattle, across the sound, near manzanita bay. I think....
maps.google.com/maps?q=Seattle,+WA&ll=47.658913,-122.454987&spn=0.298763,0.480755&hl=en


Note: mind the spelling.


Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:04:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 5:23:33 PM EDT by GrumpyM4]

Originally Posted By MDC85:
you're right, god damn officers shouldn't be asking you questions about what in the fuck youre doing on their boat.



Exactly. I have too much shit to do as it is and I don't have time for some limp wristed khaki wearing asshole who dosn't know shit about what I am doing. If they want to know what I am doing, then they need to learn how to read a TGI and get with the program. I am there to fix a fucking boat, not babysit navy personell.


remember, THE CREW takes the ship to sea, NOT YOU......tell yourself that the next time you get pissed at someone for asking you why you're there.


Woopdi-fucking-doo. If it weren't for people like me, they wouldn't HAVE a fucking boat to take to sea, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. The crew only runs the boat, I BUILD it.

Frankly, I have too much to do to waste time with people who don't know crap. I don't have time to explain my job to sombody who dosn't understand the concepts I am talking about. It sucks when I have to explain every other word because they aren't shipfitters and don't know what I am talking about.

Although I do love the looks on their faces when they ask me what I am doing and I say "Working" and then ignore them.

BTW, Sailors can break ANYTHING, and by the time these things come in for conversions, the amount of shit thats broken, fucked up, twisted, bent, etc, is astounding.

And finding jizzwads and titty mags with the pages stuck together in the bilges is no fucking fun either.

This bullshit attitude of "We are service members, therefore we need to be treated like royalty and bowed to by you lowly yardbirds because you are mere civilians." is a happy load of horsecrap.


and us "sailor boys" aren't there to be nice to you or lift a finger for you.


You're right, apparently your there to be complete assholes who contribute nothing to the overall value of the project.

Most of the sailors would be better used finding a shore billet licking stamps instead of dicking around the project all day long, getting in the way and underfoot.

By the way, what the fuck kind of attitude is that? "us "sailor boys" aren't there to be nice to you or lift a finger for you" ...oh wait, I know, its the same jackassed attitude that I get from most of the sailors on the boat....the attitude of "I'm too good to lift a finger to fix my own fucking boat....I have the complete right to have the yard fix all the shit I broke while at the same time standing around bitching about the fact that they are crowding the walkways, making messes, not calling me "sir" and reminding them all the time that its "MY" boat and not theirs."

Its assbags like you that create such dischord between the yard workers and the navy people. If there were less idiots like you, there would be a hell of a lot better working relationship at the yard.

Next time, step the fuck out of the way, STFU, and let the real men do the work. So, with all due respect, bug off. I have steel to hang while you're sitting around beating off inside of missle tubes.

Chris(hopeing to get moved off of the sub project to the carrier where the sailors are nicer, the food is better, and I don't have to crawl around behind missle tubes for a living)


Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:30:04 PM EDT


That post revealed to me what an ignorant jackass you are. I have no reason to continue with this.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:33:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:
Exactly. I have too much shit to do as it is and I don't have time for some limp wristed khaki wearing asshole who dosn't know shit about what I am doing. If they want to know what I am doing, then they need to learn how to read a TGI and get with the program. I am there to fix a fucking boat, not babysit navy personell.


Limp wristed khaki wearing assholes huh?

Woopdi-fucking-doo. If it weren't for people like me, they wouldn't HAVE a fucking boat to take to sea, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. The crew only runs the boat, I BUILD it.

That is true, but once the ship is delivered it is the USN's and the crew is responsible for it, not you.



Frankly, I have too much to do to waste time with people who don't know crap. I don't have time to explain my job to sombody who dosn't understand the concepts I am talking about. It sucks when I have to explain every other word because they aren't shipfitters and don't know what I am talking about.

Although I do love the looks on their faces when they ask me what I am doing and I say "Working" and then ignore them.


Then work.


BTW, Sailors can break ANYTHING, and by the time these things come in for conversions, the amount of shit thats broken, fucked up, twisted, bent, etc, is astounding.


Yeah, we don't put these boats in a bottle. We actually use them. Of course if they were better built they wouldn't need as much rework.


And finding jizzwads and titty mags with the pages stuck together in the bilges is no fucking fun either.


Yeah tell me about it. When closing out fuel tanks were sailors can't be, because the Navy didn't gas free it, so it has to be courtesy of the night shift.


This bullshit attitude of "We are service members, therefore we need to be treated like royalty and bowed to by you lowly yardbirds because you are mere civilians." is a happy load of horsecrap.


We are not your assistants, despite your attitude. We contract the shipyards to do the work, not our Sailors. Seems like you are resentful because the Sailors are making you do your job instead of them doing it for you.

You're right, apparently your there to be complete assholes who contribute nothing to the overall value of the project.


If the Sailor is there to complete the project, what are we contracting you for?


Most of the sailors would be better used finding a shore billet licking stamps instead of dicking around the project all day long, getting in the way and underfoot.


And you base that observation based on how much operating time at sea?


By the way, what the fuck kind of attitude is that? "us "sailor boys" aren't there to be nice to you or lift a finger for you" ...oh wait, I know, its the same jackassed attitude that I get from most of the sailors on the boat....the attitude of "I'm too good to lift a finger to fix my own fucking boat....I have the complete right to have the yard fix all the shit I broke while at the same time standing around bitching about the fact that they are crowding the walkways, making messes, not calling me "sir" and reminding them all the time that its "MY" boat and not theirs."


It's called ownership. It is the Navy's boat, not yours. The Sailors have to live on the boat, not you. They, in the case of submarines, take it hundreds of feet below the surface of the ocean, not you. They risk their lives with YOUR product. They damn sure want to make sure YOU do it right.


Its assbags like you that create such dischord between the yard workers and the navy people. If there were less idiots like you, there would be a hell of a lot better working relationship at the yard.


Having been in several yard periods there are two types. The yardbird who thinks they are owed something and the Navy guys who won't be cordial. The simple fact is the Navy personnel aren't there to do the work. They are there to make sure their ship is ready for sea.


Next time, step the fuck out of the way, STFU, and let the real men do the work. So, with all due respect, bug off. I have steel to hang while you're sitting around beating off inside of missle tubes.[

Chris(hoping to get moved off of the sub project to the carrier where the sailors are nicer, the food is better, and I don't have to crawl around behind missle tubes for a living)


You won't be happy anywhere you go, because the tension between yardbirds and Sailors is the same everywhere. You're right, we don't have the expertise you do. However, you don't operate the ship, we do. It is a collision of cultures. In between there is a middle ground.

Let's put it this way about all those bullshit Navy procedures. The DDG-51 class has had 0 main engineering space fires in the class' 14+ years of service in the US Navy. In fact, the DDG-51 class is about to be the largest class of ships since WWII. It's is a remarkable safety record. But there has been one main engineering space fire on DDG-51s. It was pre-delivery, you know the time the shipyard doesn't follow Navy procedures. It was quite a nasty one. The kick in the pants is had it been post-delivery, it wouldn't have happened because Navy procedures would have caught the unsafe conditions that led to the fire.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:41:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 5:43:05 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:

Originally Posted By MDC85:
you're right, god damn officers shouldn't be asking you questions about what in the fuck youre doing on their boat.



Exactly. I have too much shit to do as it is and I don't have time for some limp wristed khaki wearing asshole who dosn't know shit about what I am doing. If they want to know what I am doing, then they need to learn how to read a TGI and get with the program. I am there to fix a fucking boat, not babysit navy personell.


remember, THE CREW takes the ship to sea, NOT YOU......tell yourself that the next time you get pissed at someone for asking you why you're there.


Woopdi-fucking-doo. If it weren't for people like me, they wouldn't HAVE a fucking boat to take to sea, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. The crew only runs the boat, I BUILD it.

Frankly, I have too much to do to waste time with people who don't know crap. I don't have time to explain my job to sombody who dosn't understand the concepts I am talking about. It sucks when I have to explain every other word because they aren't shipfitters and don't know what I am talking about.

Although I do love the looks on their faces when they ask me what I am doing and I say "Working" and then ignore them.

BTW, Sailors can break ANYTHING, and by the time these things come in for conversions, the amount of shit thats broken, fucked up, twisted, bent, etc, is astounding.

And finding jizzwads and titty mags with the pages stuck together in the bilges is no fucking fun either.

This bullshit attitude of "We are service members, therefore we need to be treated like royalty and bowed to by you lowly yardbirds because you are mere civilians." is a happy load of horsecrap.


and us "sailor boys" aren't there to be nice to you or lift a finger for you.


You're right, apparently your there to be complete assholes who contribute nothing to the overall value of the project.

Most of the sailors would be better used finding a shore billet licking stamps instead of dicking around the project all day long, getting in the way and underfoot.

By the way, what the fuck kind of attitude is that? "us "sailor boys" aren't there to be nice to you or lift a finger for you" ...oh wait, I know, its the same jackassed attitude that I get from most of the sailors on the boat....the attitude of "I'm too good to lift a finger to fix my own fucking boat....I have the complete right to have the yard fix all the shit I broke while at the same time standing around bitching about the fact that they are crowding the walkways, making messes, not calling me "sir" and reminding them all the time that its "MY" boat and not theirs."

Its assbags like you that create such dischord between the yard workers and the navy people. If there were less idiots like you, there would be a hell of a lot better working relationship at the yard.

Next time, step the fuck out of the way, STFU, and let the real men do the work. So, with all due respect, bug off. I have steel to hang while you're sitting around beating off inside of missle tubes.

Chris(hopeing to get moved off of the sub project to the carrier where the sailors are nicer, the food is better, and I don't have to crawl around behind missle tubes for a living)





Thanks for reminding me why I hated all you shit for brains. You exist because of us, not the other way around.

Love,

A former nuke carrier limp wristed khaki motherfucker

PS, you'll hate us there too, because we will se your attitude a mile away.


Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:43:37 PM EDT
oh shit more o-gang





Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:09:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MDC85:
oh shit more o-gang








Fuck the shipyard REMFs. They are not the ones in harm's way when the shit hits the fan.

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:34:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By MDC85:
oh shit more o-gang








Fuck the shipyard REMFs. They are not the ones in harm's way when the shit hits the fan.




Here are some REMF's who were aboard the USS Thresher when shit hit the fan on 10 Apr 1963.

Portsmouth Shipyard Technicians
CHARRON, Robert E.
GUERETTE, Paul A.
FISHER, Richard K.
WHITTEN, Laurence E.
BEAL, Daniel W., Jr.
DES JARDINS, Richard R.
CHRITCHLEY, Kenneth J.
CURRIER, Paul C.
ABRAMS, Fred P.
PALMER, Franklin J.
DINEEN, George J.
MOREAU, Henry C.

Civilian Contractors
CORCORAN, Kenneth R. --Sperry Corp
JAQUAY, Maurice F. -- Raytheon Corp
KEUSTER, Donald W. --Sperry Corp
STADTMULLER, Donald T. --Sperry Corp
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:45:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 6:49:13 PM EDT by MDC85]
I had a feeling this would be brought up.

Deleted 2nd part of my response.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:54:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Here are some REMF's who were aboard the USS Thresher when shit hit the fan on 10 Apr 1963.

Portsmouth Shipyard Technicians
CHARRON, Robert E.
GUERETTE, Paul A.
FISHER, Richard K.
WHITTEN, Laurence E.
BEAL, Daniel W., Jr.
DES JARDINS, Richard R.
CHRITCHLEY, Kenneth J.
CURRIER, Paul C.
ABRAMS, Fred P.
PALMER, Franklin J.
DINEEN, George J.
MOREAU, Henry C.

Civilian Contractors
CORCORAN, Kenneth R. --Sperry Corp
JAQUAY, Maurice F. -- Raytheon Corp
KEUSTER, Donald W. --Sperry Corp
STADTMULLER, Donald T. --Sperry Corp


Ironic isn't it? They were killed due to shoddy shipyard work. Maybe that's why the Navy is so anal about safety and is constantly looking over yardworkers' shoulders. THRESHER led to the Navy's Sub Safe program, so I guess that is why the Navy is constantly looking over their shoulders.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:55:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MDC85:
I had a feeling this would be brought up. Not to be an asshole, but wasn't it shipyard work that brought that boat down? Something about a shoddy weld on a seawater system is what started the whole chain of events.



No it wasn't shipyard work, it was a Engineering design flaw with a screen in a valve that is critical when you blow ballast. (I don't know the name of it offhand). After this accident, Subsafe came into being. The Portsmouth Yard has never forgotten this accident.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:57:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By MDC85:
I had a feeling this would be brought up. Not to be an asshole, but wasn't it shipyard work that brought that boat down? Something about a shoddy weld on a seawater system is what started the whole chain of events.



No it wasn't shipyard work, it was a Engineering design flaw with a screen in a valve that is critical when you blow ballast. (I don't know the name of it offhand). After this accident, Subsafe came into being. The Portsmouth Yard has never forgotten this accident.



I'm talking about what initiated the flooding, not the screen shit that froze or whatever.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 6:59:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MDC85:

I'm talking about what initiated the flooding, not the screen shit that froze or whatever.


You are correct.


After an extensive underwater search utilizing the bathyscaph Trieste, oceanographic ship Mizar, and other ships, Thresher's shattered remains were located on the sea floor, some 8400 feet below the surface. Deep sea photography, recovered artifacts and an evaluation of her design and operations permitted a Court of Inquiry to determine that she had probably sunk due to a piping failure, subsequent loss of power and inability to blow ballast tanks rapidly enough to avoid sinking. Over the next several years, a massive program was undertaken to correct design and construction problems on the Navy's existing nuclear submarines, and on those under construction and in planning. Following completion of this "SubSafe" effort, the Navy has suffered no further losses of the kind that so tragically ended Thresher's brief service career.


The weld caused the flooding which knocked out power and prevented the THRESHER from blowing tanks.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:29:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Here are some REMF's who were aboard the USS Thresher when shit hit the fan on 10 Apr 1963.

Portsmouth Shipyard Technicians
CHARRON, Robert E.
GUERETTE, Paul A.
FISHER, Richard K.
WHITTEN, Laurence E.
BEAL, Daniel W., Jr.
DES JARDINS, Richard R.
CHRITCHLEY, Kenneth J.
CURRIER, Paul C.
ABRAMS, Fred P.
PALMER, Franklin J.
DINEEN, George J.
MOREAU, Henry C.

Civilian Contractors
CORCORAN, Kenneth R. --Sperry Corp
JAQUAY, Maurice F. -- Raytheon Corp
KEUSTER, Donald W. --Sperry Corp
STADTMULLER, Donald T. --Sperry Corp


Ironic isn't it? They were killed due to shoddy shipyard work. Maybe that's why the Navy is so anal about safety and is constantly looking over yardworkers' shoulders. THRESHER led to the Navy's Sub Safe program, so I guess that is why the Navy is constantly looking over their shoulders.



eodtech, nice try, but as we can see, my point still stands.

Rear Echelon Mother Fuckers.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:38:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By MDC85:

I'm talking about what initiated the flooding, not the screen shit that froze or whatever.


You are correct.


After an extensive underwater search utilizing the bathyscaph Trieste, oceanographic ship Mizar, and other ships, Thresher's shattered remains were located on the sea floor, some 8400 feet below the surface. Deep sea photography, recovered artifacts and an evaluation of her design and operations permitted a Court of Inquiry to determine that she had probably sunk due to a piping failure, subsequent loss of power and inability to blow ballast tanks rapidly enough to avoid sinking. Over the next several years, a massive program was undertaken to correct design and construction problems on the Navy's existing nuclear submarines, and on those under construction and in planning. Following completion of this "SubSafe" effort, the Navy has suffered no further losses of the kind that so tragically ended Thresher's brief service career.


The weld caused the flooding which knocked out power and prevented the THRESHER from blowing tanks.



The nail in the coffin for her was that valve. The Navy tested that valve in similiar depth and conditions as the Thresher, the valve literally froze shut. Luckily the sub that was testing this had power, IIRC the engineers overseeing the test went a little pale as it sunk into them what happened aboard Thresher in her final minutes.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 7:44:53 PM EDT
Thought that the deal was something (leak?) scrammed down the reactor, and there was a delay in powering it back up (and thus not enough power to plane up & head topside)

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:11:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 9:24:22 PM EDT by GrumpyM4]

Originally Posted By dport:
Limp wristed khaki wearing assholes huh?



Unfortunatly, yes. Most are.

I have met one...a single sub officer that I thought was worth a damn. He wasn't interested in bothering my crew and being a nitpicking asshole. He came down to inspect the lower level misslehouse and actually asked(gasp!) what he could do to make things flow more smoothly. We asked that the sailors be kept from peering over our grind containments and then complaining about getting hit in the face with sparks and try to shut us down because we were being unsafe. C'mon man, I mean how stupid do you have to be to know not to stick your face in a grind containment when you hear a bayflex running at high RPM's.

Its crap like this that we have to put up with.

The officer was cool about it, we got our input and felt like we were listened to, the sailors got to put some input into it and felt listened to, and lo and behold, for a little while there, we got to work in peace and quiet.

Unfortunatly I havn't seen that officer in quite some time.


That is true, but once the ship is delivered it is the USN's and the crew is responsible for it, not you.


And therein lies a big part of the problem. Technically, the Navy "sells" us the boat, and then when the project is over, they "buy back" the boat. If the project isn't up to snuff, they refuse to "buy back" the boat until all problems have been worked out.

I fully believe that once a boat is in dry dock with dry feet, that all naval personell need to be off the boat until the project is over and they are ready to flood the DD for removal.


Then work.



Thats another part of the problem. We ARE working. And then we get stopped by some overzealous prick to be asked questions, and THEN, after jacking their jaws and inturrupting us, they accuse us of sitting around talking and not working. ?????WTF????



Yeah tell me about it. When closing out fuel tanks were sailors can't be, because the Navy didn't gas free it, so it has to be courtesy of the night shift.



Nope. We find these "items" back behind the missle tubes where we are the first to go once the boat is in DD, and sometimes the stuff we find is YEARS old. You see, when the sailors try to hide things in their racks in berthing, it sometimes slides between the PH and the internal structure, all the way down into the bilges where they cannot be retrieved by the crew because of all the crap in the way.

We only find this stuff after removing boatloads of wireing and pipes and hangers and can get back into the small itty bitty little places.

Its disgusting....



We are not your assistants, despite your attitude. We contract the shipyards to do the work, not our Sailors. Seems like you are resentful because the Sailors are making you do your job instead of them doing it for you.



And guess what? We don't treat the sailors like assistants. We don't ask ANYTHING from them except to be left alone to get our work done.

The examples I gave were of sailors who approached us and offered to help because they were genuinly nice guys who gave a damn about learning more about their boat and wanted to learn by doing.

I have NEVER asked a sailor to do anything except get the hell out of my way when I am trying to muscle-fuck an 80 pound tool bag and two air hoses out of the fourth plat of the missle coumpartment, or to stop bothering me when I am trying to preform subsafe work and don't need to be distracted.

Its not like the PH is all that important that I need some dope kicking my foot while I'm lying on my side, half upside down with a respirator on trying to grind a hanger removal flush with a cyclone on the PH and need every ounce of concentration I can muster.

Let me tell you, with a cyclone, 1/32 of an inch goes by real quick, and anymore than 1/32 of an inch past spec and I am looking at a critique and an assload of paperwork to repair the fuckup.




If the Sailor is there to complete the project, what are we contracting you for?



Thats the problem, the sailor is NOT there to complete the project. WE complete the project. The only thing I have seen sailors do besides be annoying (excepting the few cool ones) is wander around and check guages or stand watch.

As I said, we have plenty of highly trained people who could do the same thing and not have the sailors onboard causing problems because they don't know our job.


And you base that observation based on how much operating time at sea?



Time at sea has nothing to do with what the sailors do while the boat is in overhaul (or conversion as the case may be)




It's called ownership. It is the Navy's boat, not yours. The Sailors have to live on the boat, not you. They, in the case of submarines, take it hundreds of feet below the surface of the ocean, not you. They risk their lives with YOUR product. They damn sure want to make sure YOU do it right.



Apparently the only thing risking the lives of our sailors these days is officers who don't know where underwater mountians are.

Yea, I know that was a cheap shot, but this holier than thou attitude is getting boring. You job is no more dangerous than mine, and probably less so. Why? Because we actually do our fucking job and we try to do it well because we DO understand the importance of what you guys do when the boat is actually afloat.

I am not just there for a paycheck. My job means more than that even if I hate some aspects of the BS I have to put up with or the grind debris, snotty sailors, dipshit foremen, lazy contractors, etc, etc.

The only reason you can take the boat underwater at all is because we DO care and try to do our very best. And I understand that y'all want it done right, but when you don't know my job, tell me just how in the hell are you going to make sure I "do it right" when you don't even know what I am doing at all?

I already have 20 people breathing down my neck, at least half of whom know what I am doing and why, so I don't need some aloof prick of a sailor busting my chops beacuse he is "taking ownership". What you call "taking ownership", I call fucking with the yard workers because they can. Hell, just the other day I watched a sailor shut down a weldor (who was not only working, but actually doing a damn good job of it too) because the sailor couldn't find the hotwork request chit (as signed by the duty officer). It didn't help that the hotwork chit was taped to a missle tube 4 feet away and when it was pointed out, the little gimp tore it down and still made the weldor stop until it could be "verified". All because the weldor who was in a very uncomfortable position TIG welding on pipe told the sailor to leave him alone so he could keep working.

It was almost a case of "contempt of cop" without a cop.



Having been in several yard periods there are two types. The yardbird who thinks they are owed something and the Navy guys who won't be cordial. The simple fact is the Navy personnel aren't there to do the work. They are there to make sure their ship is ready for sea.



No yardbird I work with thinks they are owed shit by the sailors. We just want to be left the hell alone to get our work done.

And we don't expect the sailors to do our work because we know that if they tried, the boat would NEVER leave drydock.

As far as making sure the boat is ready for sea, this project just started, it ain't gonna see water for quite some time, and any sailor that tells me that he is there to make sure the ship is ready for the sea is gonna get laughed at while I hand him a roll of duct tape and tell him that he had better cover up the hull cuts if he expects this thing to float any time soon.


You won't be happy anywhere you go, because the tension between yardbirds and Sailors is the same everywhere. You're right, we don't have the expertise you do. However, you don't operate the ship, we do. It is a collision of cultures. In between there is a middle ground.



You're probably right. I won't be completely happy anywhere I go because of that culture clash. But I do know that there is way less interferrence on the carrier.

Not only that but I am 6'2" and there is so much more space on a carrier. Crawling around the nooks and crannies of the lower missle comp is just a shitty job for tall people.

Let's put it this way about all those bullshit Navy procedures. The DDG-51 class has had 0 main engineering space fires in the class' 14+ years of service in the US Navy. In fact, the DDG-51 class is about to be the largest class of ships since WWII. It's is a remarkable safety record. But there has been one main engineering space fire on DDG-51s. It was pre-delivery, you know the time the shipyard doesn't follow Navy procedures. It was quite a nasty one. The kick in the pants is had it been post-delivery, it wouldn't have happened because Navy procedures would have caught the unsafe conditions that led to the fire.



You are correct that there have been accidents like that. And while I won't make excuses, I will point out that you yourself already acknowledged that the things that we do and the things you do are very different. No sailor will ever plasma cut out structual supports, carbon arc plating, or bayflex pipe hanger removals. Its like comparing apples to oranges. Navy procedure works fine for Navy USE of the boat. Navy procedure won't work for what we do when building or repairing same said boat. We have our own procedure, and for the most part they work, but like with anything else, accidents, negligence, or just plain bad luck sometimes comes into play and things like that fire you mentioned happens.

That instance I gave about the sailor pulling the cascon fire alarm is a prime example of different cultures and procedures.

No yardworker who was familiar with our work would have done that. Even our cheap-assed work release firewatches know the difference between carbon arc smoke and genuine casualty smoke.

Lost time, lost money, all because the sailor didn't even bother to stop and ask the weldors and firewatches who were right there and not panicking, what was going on or if there was somthing to be concerned about.

In that case, being stopped and asked a question would have been a good thing.

We have a job to do. When the boat is in DD, there is no need for Navy staff to be present. It creates allot of problems, slows the project, and because of how the sailors seem to be trained or briefed before the project starts, they have some pretty crappy attitudes towards yardworkers in general, deserved or not.

Like I said, I have a job to do, We lead, so either follow or get the hell out of the way.

Chris
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:17:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Thanks for reminding me why I hated all you shit for brains. You exist because of us, not the other way around.
Love,
A former nuke carrier limp wristed khaki motherfucker
PS, you'll hate us there too, because we will se your attitude a mile away.



You only hate us because we know your ship better than you do.

You see, its kind of like the contractors in Iraq. We don't just build the ships or fix them, to do that properly, we have to know how to run them too. We just get paid more to do it than you did. You guys just run the damn things while we know how to fix and build them as well as make them work.

Don't hate us because we're beautiful.

Whats this "we" shit, paleface? Your former. Not current, and no navy guy is gonna see shit for attitude.

The attitude I have was learned from experience. Not because the old guys in the yard filled my head full of shit.

I give every sailor or officer a chance to prove his worth. Respect is earned, not given. And if I didn't give them all at least one chance, then I never would have had the chance to get to know the few that I think are worth a damn, now would I?

Hugs and kisses sailor boy.

Chris
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:22:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Fuck the shipyard REMFs. They are not the ones in harm's way when the shit hits the fan.



Fuck the limp wristed khaki wearing cowards who will probably be found cowering in their bunks when the bullets start flying and the enlisted sailors are risking everything to prevent a casualty on their boat when the shit hits the fan.

I might take this opportune time to remind everybody that in my guestimation, close to half if not more of the workers at my yard have prior Mil time (considering that former mil is given hireing preference), and the rest got in because they tested very highly in an extremely competitive hireing process.

So screw your bullshit fluff and hype about being in harms way chump. Some of the guys I work with have already had real bullets flying over their heads in their past while you were sitting in the goatlocker sipping coffee.

Matter of fact, the Weldors are heavily staffed with Former Marines. At least one that I know of was former Force Recon as well.

Chris
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:28:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
eodtech, nice try, but as we can see, my point still stands.
Rear Echelon Mother Fuckers.



Point? You have no point. And nothing you have said has a leg to stand on.

You talk like your some sort of big combat maven. Yea right. The closest you have been to combat was watching it on CNN while safely offshore.

What happened to the Thresher was partial accident, partial design flaw.

I'd like to see you navy pricks design a sub any better.

The day you actually know my job better than I do is the day you have the right to stare over my shoulder and tell me how to do it.

Oh wait...that will never happen because you don't know shit about my job. And who's the remf now?

Unless you can fix a boat all by yourself, STFU poser.

Chris

Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:35:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 9:41:42 PM EDT by MDC85]
Make all of the sailors get off the boat? Oh man, that is a fucking riot. Did you forget about that pesky reactor plant that has to be watched and manned 24 hours a day, even when you're enjoying your holidays and all of that shit you take for granted?

I won't even begin to speak about the maintenance we do during those periods....because hey pal, we don't exactly work in the easy to reach spaces either. It is a fucking submarine, not a cruise ship. Get into another line of work if you want to bitch about having to crawl around. And just a side note, we have had to weld and braze shit underway. Your ignorance combined with your so called "knowledge" of our systems is laughable. How much training do you even have on our boats? Or operational experience for that matter?

And as a side note, most of the actual submariner shop guys are cool and will not give an ounce of shit if we are asking why they are down there....because they understand it is OUR boat that WE have to fucking take under the water.
I bet they don't get paid overtime like you billy badasses either
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:40:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MDC85:
Make all of the sailors get off the boat? Oh man, that is a fucking riot. Did you forget about that pesky reactor plant that has to be watched and manned 24 hours a day, even when you're enjoying your holidays and all of that shit you take for granted?

I won't even begin to speak about the maintenance we do during those periods....because hey pal, we don't exactly work in the easy to reach spaces either. It is a fucking submarine, not a cruise ship. Get into another line of work if you want to bitch about having to crawl around. And just a side note, we have had to weld and braze shit underway. Your ignorance combined with your so called "knowledge" of our systems is laughable. How much training do you even have on our boats? Or operational experience for that matter?



Never mind the asshole. He's just another townie loser with a big attitude and a bigger mouth.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 9:45:15 PM EDT
and for the love of christ, WELDOR is not a word.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 10:32:32 PM EDT
I'll stick up for Submarine Shipyard workers as my Brother, Mom, and currently my Father work at Portsmouth doing Sub work. But GrumpyM4 your way over the line.

My family nor any shipyard worker I know has never expressed such apathy for Sailors. I have heard over the years of an occassional prick for a Sub Captain or occassional dipshit Sailor but that comes with the Territory. My Father usually only bitches about the bureaucracy at the Yard.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:02:25 AM EDT
Nothing more satisfying than taking a dump in a sleeping shipyard worker's hardhat; ahhhhh the memories.
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