There is a thread about the NO cop that killed himself in GD. Every damn response is that he should have, good shoot, etc. I posted that that opinion is wrong, that he deserved the same chance at trial as anybody else, etc.

Of course I realize that arguing on the internet/GD in general is like running in the special olympics, but it is just truly sad the opinions of most of the posters on the GD board.

I went through the same BS over an incident I was involved in back in Feb. It seems that a ton of people on the GD board are asshats and possibly a true threat to cops with their attitudes.

I have always been extremely pro 2A even before I ever worked in LE. But since seeing the general attitude of tons of people, I see why alot of cops do not like/distrust gun owners.

Just my minor rant. thanks for listening.

Most of the attitudes people have are shaped by conditioning.



Remember that there is usually a catalyst that predicates a mistrust or stereotype.

but it is just truly sad the opinions of most of the posters on the GD board.

Not a slam but a point . Maybe its because we expect our LEO's to be of the highest moral and to represent all that is good . When they are seen as bad ( video ) they get the same treatment as a baby raper . Yea its earned .

Quoted: but it is just truly sad the opinions of most of the posters on the GD board. Not a slam but a point . Maybe its because we expect our LEO's to be of the highest moral and to represent all that is good . When they are seen as bad ( video ) they get the same treatment as a baby raper . Yea its earned .

Gotta agree. I grew up in a cop family and was exposed to the best and worst of LEO's my entire life.  I'll trash one that deserves it very quickly, I'll defend one even quicker if they don't deserve it.  That thread in particular is running to the crapper pretty quick.  I do get a kick out of the "good shoot" commenters though.  They tend to be the most cooperative people on the planet when encountering an LEO and then post shit here like the lead doper in super troopers.  Same concept.  Same IQ

Quoted: but it is just truly sad the opinions of most of the posters on the GD board. Not a slam but a point . Maybe its because we expect our LEO's to be of the highest moral and to represent all that is good . When they are seen as bad ( video ) they get the same treatment as a baby raper . Yea its earned .

And that is exactly the problem. Why the fuck should cops that act human be treated like a baby raper?

If a cop does wrong, then deal with it appropriately, just like you would do with ANYBODY! So many people post that cops are not any better that anybody else, they should only have the same rights as anybody else, etc.

Yet when they are accused of anything, they are automatically guilty, and should be strung up.

Fucking double standards and the assholes who perpetrate them.

Quoted: There is a thread about the NO cop that killed himself in GD. Every damn response is that he should have, good shoot, etc. I posted that that opinion is wrong, that he deserved the same chance at trial as anybody else, etc. Of course I realize that arguing on the internet/GD in general is like running in the special olympics, but it is just truly sad the opinions of most of the posters on the GD board. I went through the same BS over an incident I was involved in back in Feb. It seems that a ton of people on the GD board are asshats and possibly a true threat to cops with their attitudes. I have always been extremely pro 2A even before I ever worked in LE. But since seeing the general attitude of tons of people, I see why alot of cops do not like/distrust gun owners. Just my minor rant. thanks for listening.

Bingo.,...

Typical Mob mentality.

Most are decent guys and ladies.   However once a few of the vocal  knuckle draggers start...   You know the rest.

People like to vent off steam and we are the perfect target to vent about, most people (I beleive) don't like cops for all kinds of reasons;tickets,arrests,stopping them for no apparent reason,or we're never around when needed.People don't like to be told what to do or what not to do and thats fair,hell I can't stand it myself.I also think it's learned behavior.I work in what most people would considder a ghetto, the west side of chicago. Kids below the age of 13 love us,always run up to us and want to talk, play basketball for a while and are always happy to see us. Something happens around the age of 13 that turns the kids against us and they absolutely hate us. Maybe we arrested a parent or friend or it's the music they listen to or televison/movies they watch or maybe it's just teenage rebellion. A lot of people like to smoke weed, a lot of people here on Ar15 like to do it (I'll bet) but it's still illegal and they don't want to be bothered with the law and don't even want to hear it.I also think that we can also be our own worst enemies, you have to be able to talk to people and not just M/F everyone for every minor reason. Every profession that deals with the public has problems but we are the ones who enforce the laws and have power over people and there will always be resentment for that.

I don't think it's a majority opinion on ARFcom (at least I hope not). There are a few vocal idiots that account for 90% of the cop bashing threads and replies, along with a few 'me too' types that jump on the band wagon at times.

Quoted: I have always been extremely pro 2A even before I ever worked in LE. But since seeing the general attitude of tons of people, I see why alot of cops do not like/distrust gun owners.

Again, I think it's a small minority of gun owners with this anti-cop attitude. I try to remember that, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that reading AR15.com General Discussion has damaged my opinion of my 'fellow' gun owners at times. And that's not just with cop threads either. Folks post some very offensive crap about every topic imaginable in GD.

The funny thing is, I always hear certain ARFcommers complaining about the 'us vs. them' mentality of police. In reality, the 'us vs. them' mentality is strongest from some of these gun owners who hate the police. It's sad to see your 'fellow' gun owners get off on the misfortunes/mistakes/etc. of police officers. It's very upsetting to see  them celebrate the death or injury of police officers. It's even more troubling to see them talk about scenarios in which they imply they would murder police officers.

But honestly, that's all part of the anonymity of the internet. You don't know if you're dealing with some 13 year old typing from his mom's computer. On the same note, people post crap that they wouldn't dare say to someone's face. I'm convinced that some of the biggest mouths on ARFcom are probably some of the biggest pussies in real life.

  After reading that thread over there, and getting upset at one person that kept taking jabs at you , (simply because his reading comprehension skills fall short) I have just about gave up on the GD forum...

Think I'll just stay over here..."Where leveler heads prevail...."

Long story short, this site is GREAT for technical information, and new product info.

However, most of the GD forumites support legalizing all drugs.  I think any LEO who's done any real time on the street understands what that would do to this country.  Many of the people in the GD forum have no problem with theft.  Many of them firmly believe we write traffic citations for revenue.  They haven't seen some of the accidents I have.  They are in general, cry babies with no sense of morals or decency.  They always find fault in every rule or law that keeps them from living in any irresponsible way they think they should be able to live.

The sad reality is that if we met a lot of the GD forumites on the street, we'd think they were crap balls.  The fact that someone supports the Second Amendment doesn't automatically make them a good person.

Quoted: Long story short, this site is GREAT for technical information, and new product info. However, most of the GD forumites support legalizing all drugs.  I think any LEO who's done any real time on the street understands what that would do to this country.  Many of the people in the GD forum have no problem with theft.  Many of them firmly believe we write traffic citations for revenue.  They haven't seen some of the accidents I have.  They are in general, cry babies with no sense of morals or decency.  They always find fault in every rule or law that keeps them from living in any irresponsible way they think they should be able to live. The sad reality is that if we met a lot of the GD forumites on the street, we'd think they were crap balls.  The fact that someone supports the Second Amendment doesn't automatically make them a good person.

Well said.  I am not a LEO...yet but I get very tired of reading threads in GD where it seems that people are very quick to jump on a LEO.  LE is no easy job.  LEO's are people and people make mistakes.  I fully exepect each and every one to make mistakes.  I'm not perfect, why should I think LEO's are perfect.  A person should be held accountable for their actions...period.  Weather that person is LE or not, do a crime, get punished for it.  Pot is illegal, do it and get caught, face the consequences for it.  Theft is illegal, get caught, face the consequences.  That is life and the people that complain that cops are "JBTs" are stupid.  I have yet to see a person that got unwanted attention from LE that did not deserve it.  But thats just me.

Remember Bro... the anonymity of "teh Interweb" lead a lot of 98 pound weaklings to become "Macho He-Men", and pay us* back for a run in they had 10 years ago where they feel they got harassed or got cited.

How many of the GD threads actually start out with "OK... I was speeding the wrong way down a pedestrian path after I had a few drinks and then this stupid JBT pulls me over and he was an ASSH*LE to me..."

(For the lurkers/bashers - Hyperbole in this case is sarcasm - an attempt at humor... not to be taken seriously)

(Uniformed representatives of The Man®, DBA .gov, in all it's myriad forms)

How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  He was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself.

That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only.

Right now there is a thread where the guy who started it, hoping to bash Las Vegas PD, is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label to the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement.

Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  he was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who atarted it, hiping to bash Las Vegas PD is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement.

Go back to GD. You are not allowed to try to dance in the blood over here.

Quoted: Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  he was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who atarted it, hiping to bash Las Vegas PD is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement. Go back to GD. You are not allowed to try to dance in the blood over here.

I'm not "dancing" in anybody's "blood."  Just pointing out the obvious.

Simple question:  are you a cop?

Well, A and B.

First B for the benefit of those who ask for crucfixition, we often (in any profession, there will those who won't) do police our own. Dismissed a number in my military police department, from lack of apitude to criminal activity. But should we crucify each and everyone?

Generally, I would say no for four primary reasons. All stated in nutshell for breviety (for me) reasons. First of all, there tends to be a continuim of action one can take as an officer against an offender and that should be applied as well internally. Officers, after all, have been known to give warnings when they could give tickets, so why shouldn't the same be applied inside the department? Secondly, the US CJ system is not based on nailing everyone to the wall even if convicted but using several different responses. Again, why shouldn't this be available inside the department? Third, if the officer has done wrong, then it may be more important to find out how much damage was done at the cost of an extent of punishment so corrective or repair measures can be taken. In short, come clean, now, and we will dismiss you without writing a report that will ruin the rest of your life.

Fourth and perhaps the most important: when command sets down the attitude that if mistakes are made, cops will be crucified, then command sets up a structure where officers take a very reactive and not proactive stance, if they stay at all. They may go into the watchman stance, not going anywhere unless the alarm is sounded. Similar (and what I am somewhat basing it on) is the policy that we will crucify pilots who bomb the wrong target such as a church. Set that up and one will end up pilots who can't or won't find the target at all, drop their bombs in the sea.

Again, nutshell versions, IMHO.

Now, A: It is pretty clear thru at least my experience, that people don't like cops telling them what to do and I would judge that given an avenue to strike back at them, at least some of them will. I've had the previous situations enough times and there were probably enough low level avenues for the latter to occurr, only I didn't recognize them as a possible strike back at the time. Ie, all attacks were the anger of the moment in my view.

Of course, the other thing that bugs me is how easily or often or both people disregard laws. Bikers don't stop at stop signs, people cut across medians, boaters tie up and climb onto a dock that says keep off, over a locked gate. People I respected growing up I fortunally did not have to deal with as military police because there would have been a small firefight just because they didn't want to obey permit regulations.

Why are people like that? I don't know but I would guess upbringing and experience at the top of my list, but that's beside the point here.

What is the point is two fold. There are those who if they disagree with you in E-Space, they will be very verbral in their disgreements and usually, no amount of arguing will sway them no matter how unreasonable their arguement. Such, as my mother would say, is a logic tight compartment in their head. Secondly, while it doesn't relieve the stress completely ..........................

.............................. it does seem a little bit riduclous to get that upset about what is really only a few electrons.
_________________________________________________
("Crucifixion?"--Coordinator
"Yes." --prisoner
"Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each.", (wtte), "Life of Brian")

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  he was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who atarted it, hiping to bash Las Vegas PD is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement. Go back to GD. You are not allowed to try to dance in the blood over here. I'm not "dancing" in anybody's "blood."  Just pointing out the obvious. Simple question:  are you a cop?

1. You are trolling where you are not allowed to. If you want to celebrate crap like that, go back to your buddies in GD.

2. I was in civilian LE for over eight years. I only do it part-time in the ANG as a military cop now. I run my own gun/police supply business now.

Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  he was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself.

Really?  Sure it wasn't the two FBI agents who were not even charged (and who actually took him to the ground and split his face?)
How did he try to hide it?
Because Stu went off on a reporter who committed a battery on Stu?  Yeah, Stu screwed up, he should have just arrested the reporter---the reporter agreed and did not want to pursue the matter.
Ever fought a drunk man?
Yeah, Davis said he was not drunk--he also said he only had one drink, and he also said he had not had a drink in months, and he also said he had not had a drink in years......which one was true?
I know several bartenders who ejected him that night for being drunk and disorderly in their bars.
Which is more likely:
Davis was drunk and disorderly and would not just go up the street and go home like he was asked.  Officers moved to arrest him, and he fought them.  A pair of FBI agents piled on and took him the ground, and while the officers were radiong in that a fight was going on, Stu tried to get to them through the crowd, but when he pushed one man out of his way, that man grabbed him from behind, spun him around, and shoved his press credentials in his face while shouting at him, causing Stu to momentarily lose it and push the reporter in the chest and use profanity to him.

Or.......
Davis asked an officer for directions to the nearest place to get a cigarette and was attacked for no reason.


(By the way, no NOLA native is likely to try to buy cigs on Bourbon, let alone have to ask anyone where to get them.)


Nice to know some folks know everything.

As far as Lance goes, well, he was stupid for what he did in my opinion, especially given the fact that he was likely not going to be convicted anyway---the same 5th Amendment violation which got Stu cleared of his charges applied to him.
Sad for his family though.

On a side note, counting Lance, we are down by three after the weekend, though the other two were serving officers and died in vehicular accidents.

Quoted: Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  he was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. Really?  Sure it wasn't the two FBI agents who were not even charged (and who actually took him to the ground and split his face?) How did he try to hide it? Because Stu went off on a reporter who committed a battery on Stu?  Yeah, Stu screwed up, he should have just arrested the reporter---the reporter agreed and did not want to pursue the matter. Ever fought a drunk man? Yeah, Davis said he was not drunk--he also said he only had one drink, and he also said he had not had a drink in months, and he also said he had not had a drink in years......which one was true? I know several bartenders who ejected him that night for being drunk and disorderly in their bars. Which is more likely: Davis was drunk and disorderly and would not just go up the street and go home like he was asked.  Officers moved to arrest him, and he fought them.  A pair of FBI agents piled on and took him the ground, and while the officers were radiong in that a fight was going on, Stu tried to get to them through the crowd, but when he pushed one man out of his way, that man grabbed him from behind, spun him around, and shoved his press credentials in his face while shouting at him, causing Stu to momentarily lose it and push the reporter in the chest and use profanity to him. Or....... Davis asked an officer for directions to the nearest place to get a cigarette and was attacked for no reason. (By the way, no NOLA native is likely to try to buy cigs on Bourbon, let alone have to ask anyone where to get them.) Nice to know some folks know everything. As far as Lance goes, well, he was stupid for what he did in my opinion, especially given the fact that he was likely not going to be convicted anyway---the same 5th Amendment violation which got Stu cleared of his charges applied to him. Sad for his family though. On a side note, counting Lance, we are down by three after the weekend, though the other two were serving officers and died in vehicular accidents.

Alas, now we will never know now.  Suicide is a cowardly act, period.

Hey - should I consider you an FBI basher now?

General discussion should be changed to "Cop Bashing thread."  Nothing more than a bunch of crying pussies in there.  Mad because a cop jailed them or told them what to do at one point in thier life.   What I find disturbing is the fact that these threads are not locked, in other words its ok to poke fun at a cop for commiting suicide.  But if the subject was about John Doe commiting suicide and you poked fun then you would be called a troll and possibly warned or locked.  Whats even worse is, when you post a comment that is not like theirs they lable you a troll and you wind up getting a warning just for sharing your opinion.  Ive seen threads in the GD where people wrote comments that said a cop should be shot in the face but it was not locked, I cant remember which subject it was.   I try not to post much there because of all the pussies.  

Quoted: one of my first paramedic jobs was as a public safety officer. it put me off from pursuing a career in LE completely. Our chief was as corrupt as they come <later arrestted by the ABI for trafficing coccain while on duty>, and i first hand watched good leo's run off or get setup for dismissal routinely. corrupt LEO's NEED to be publically crucified when CONVICTED. you guys hold the power to ruin a life instantly. <even with a traffic ticket in some cases> you are and SHOULD be held to a higher standard. it's difficult to command the respect you deserve when you don't have the moral high ground. jmho mike

Oh please, criminals and traffic offenders "ruin" their own lives by making their own dumb ass choices.  

But I do agree because of our ULTIMATE POWER we should be burned at the stake any time the public says so.  We just have way too much power, the power to destroy souls!  WUUHAHAHHAAAAA!  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  he was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who atarted it, hiping to bash Las Vegas PD is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement. Go back to GD. You are not allowed to try to dance in the blood over here. I'm not "dancing" in anybody's "blood."  Just pointing out the obvious. Simple question:  are you a cop? 1. You are trolling where you are not allowed to. If you want to celebrate crap like that, go back to your buddies in GD. 2. I was in civilian LE for over eight years. I only do it part-time in the ANG as a military cop now. I run my own gun/police supply business now.

Really?  Could you IM me your website?

This thread is a good example of what I mentioned above: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=587025&page=1

Again, only the small minority, but I think some of these folks get off on these types of scenarios.

Robocop

Cops must and always be held to a higher standard .

I think you would agree .

Corrupt ones should be vilified on this board or anywhere they are found.

To compare them as they are only human and should be treated as ordinary people when they
are caught committing a crime ....... I'll let you think on that for a while.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: one of my first paramedic jobs was as a public safety officer. it put me off from pursuing a career in LE completely. Our chief was as corrupt as they come <later arrestted by the ABI for trafficing coccain while on duty>, and i first hand watched good leo's run off or get setup for dismissal routinely. corrupt LEO's NEED to be publically crucified when CONVICTED. you guys hold the power to ruin a life instantly. <even with a traffic ticket in some cases> you are and SHOULD be held to a higher standard. it's difficult to command the respect you deserve when you don't have the moral high ground. jmho mike Oh please, criminals and traffic offenders "ruin" their own lives by making their own dumb ass choices.   But I do agree because of our ULTIMATE POWER we should be burned at the stake any time the public says so.  We just have way too much power, the power to destroy souls!  WUUHAHAHHAAAAA!   didn't understand my intent obviously. do you support abusive corrupt leo's? i seriosly doubt you want them around anymore than the public does. THEY are the reason people <good people not scum> distrust LE on a large scale in general. when the CEO of enron takes payoffs no one is hurt outside the company. When a bad cop does it lives are seriously ruined in really bad ways. I saw it first hand in my department.

No, you didnt understand mine.

Get harrassed by a cop for no other reason than owning a certain gun, then talk to his superiors and find out thier opinion is the same your opinion would change too.

See two different abuse thier position and authority to harass your family members because thier exes are said cops good friend, your opinion would change also.

Hear two cops you train in martial arts with freely admit they sent someone up on false charges to protect themselves, due to a camera arriving on scene a few seconds too early your opinion again will change.

My grandad was a cop back in the good ole days during the he would readily concur he did the same on several occasions with the exception cameras were not common and video was extremely rare.


Granted I genuinely like to believe these are isolated incidents but it does shape your view.  

Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  He was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who started it, hoping to bash Las Vegas PD, is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label to the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement.

That doesn't even come close to telling the whole story.

Thats the real problem with threads like that...most posters in GD could care less about the whole story.  They see a weak spot to talk *&^% about a dead cop and they take advantage of it while hiding behind the "moral high ground" argument.  

It isn't about moral high ground.  It is about their juvenile resentement of authority and or inability to do the job they love the criticize.  

That officer may have used more force than was needed.  He may not have either.  What he did do was stay on the job during the worst disaster in US history and fight through the mud and the blood that came with it.  He likely lost just about everything he owned and saw his brother officers getting hurt and shot at constantly.  

That messes with your mind.  He then may have got mad and hit a suspect when he shouldn't have...

Context anyone?  

That is what GD loves to exclude...they see what they want to see and not the whole picture.  

Is anyone surprised??? Threads like that happen on every board. People in general do not hate cops. At least not around  here. What you have in GD threads that bash cops is the same few asshats trying to out-cop-bash each other for attention. these same asshats poop their pants when the cops show up. let them talk, it lets everyone know how stupid they are.

Schools out for summer.

Most GD consumerites have no idea of current police procedure/case law/officer safety measures and instantly condemn anything that sounds or looks bad.

Anonymity of the intarweb affords a little personality enhancement potential on folks who would otherwise not speak in such ways.

I am done over there. Fuck them all. I am tired of beating my head against the wall.

Quoted: Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  He was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who started it, hoping to bash Las Vegas PD, is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label to the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement. That doesn't even come close to telling the whole story. Thats the real problem with threads like that...most posters in GD could care less about the whole story.  They see a weak spot to talk *&^% about a dead cop and they take advantage of it while hiding behind the "moral high ground" argument.   It isn't about moral high ground.  It is about their juvenile resentement of authority and or inability to do the job they love the criticize.   That officer may have used more force than was needed.  He may not have either.  What he did do was stay on the job during the worst disaster in US history and fight through the mud and the blood that came with it.  He likely lost just about everything he owned and saw his brother officers getting hurt and shot at constantly.   That messes with your mind.  He then may have got mad and hit a suspect when he shouldn't have... Context anyone?   That is what GD loves to exclude...they see what they want to see and not the whole picture.

I will agree that their are more than a fair share of posters here with a "juvenile resentment of authority" - probably a good 20% or more of that thread (hardly the OP's hyperbolic "all") - if you will agree that it is equally juvenile when the "other side" applies an equally broad brush to anyone who dares question a cops action.  

Contrary to popular belief by some of that crowd, most of my - and several others here - interactions with cops are not in the "receiving orders because we drove fast" category, but in the family, friends, calling to get a police report, interviewing for a sworn statement, coordinating for traffic control, etc. capacities.  It gets as tiring being constantly called a druggy with authority problems (at least twice this month) for me, as it no doubt does for you to be continuously called a JBT, etc.

I understand you've worked in both capacities - so let me ask you this:  would you be so concerned about "context" and sensitive about "PTSD" if a Soldier just back from a deployment beat on a cop in the way that cop beat up that man?

Quoted: I am done over there. Fuck them all. I am tired of beating my head against the wall.

Well, if you see the entire population of GD as a like-minded and anti-law enforcement entity (lowly civilians at that), then you're no better than the minority who see all cops the same way.

By all means, stay out of GD. Enough close minded-bigots already, we don't need one more.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  He was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who started it, hoping to bash Las Vegas PD, is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label to the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement. That doesn't even come close to telling the whole story. Thats the real problem with threads like that...most posters in GD could care less about the whole story.  They see a weak spot to talk *&^% about a dead cop and they take advantage of it while hiding behind the "moral high ground" argument.   It isn't about moral high ground.  It is about their juvenile resentement of authority and or inability to do the job they love the criticize.   That officer may have used more force than was needed.  He may not have either.  What he did do was stay on the job during the worst disaster in US history and fight through the mud and the blood that came with it.  He likely lost just about everything he owned and saw his brother officers getting hurt and shot at constantly.   That messes with your mind.  He then may have got mad and hit a suspect when he shouldn't have... Context anyone?   That is what GD loves to exclude...they see what they want to see and not the whole picture.   I will agree that their are more than a fair share of posters here with a "juvenile resentment of authority" - probably a good 20% or more of that thread (hardly the OP's hyperbolic "all") - if you will agree that it is equally juvenile when the "other side" applies an equally broad brush to anyone who dares question a cops action.   Contrary to popular belief by some of that crowd, most of my - and several others here - interactions with cops are not in the "receiving orders because we drove fast" category, but in the family, friends, calling to get a police report, interviewing for a sworn statement, coordinating for traffic control, etc. capacities.  It gets as tiring being constantly called a druggy with authority problems (at least twice this month) for me, as it no doubt does for you to be continuously called a JBT, etc. I understand you've worked in both capacities - so let me ask you this:  would you be so concerned about "context" and sensitive about "PTSD" if a Soldier just back from a deployment beat on a cop in the way that cop beat up that man?

If the soldier had legitimate PTSD that he got from actual combat, then yes, I would take that into consideration before condeming him.  

When I came back from Astan, I know my reactions to some of life's normal things was a bit different...not violent or anything like that but very aware.  I was highly aware of my surroundings and it felt like there were a lot of people too close to me...  It didn't make me paranoid, just more sensitive to what was going on in my imediate area.  

I didn't have PTSD but I did get a sense of what it feels like to come home after 13 months and not feel exactly like you fit in because you have no idea what movies are playing, what is going on with the news, who is who in the press, etc.  

Quoted: I'll offer one warning - what is tolerated in General Discussion is absolutely not tolerated in here (or in most other forums). Read and adhere to this forum's rules along with the conduct code.  If you are still uncertain about the guidelines, get clarification from this forum's moderators before you post. Your cooperation is appreciated.   And if anyone is curious, yes, AR15.com is a very pro-law enforcement website.  Please keep that in mind.

Im sure arfcom is pro LEO for the most part but some times I wonder after reading some of the garbage in GD.  Thanks for your support though, and your service to our great country (82nd).

Quoted: Quoted: I'll offer one warning - what is tolerated in General Discussion is absolutely not tolerated in here (or in most other forums). Read and adhere to this forum's rules along with the conduct code.  If you are still uncertain about the guidelines, get clarification from this forum's moderators before you post. Your cooperation is appreciated.   And if anyone is curious, yes, AR15.com is a very pro-law enforcement website.  Please keep that in mind. Im sure arfcom is pro LEO for the most part but some times I wonder after reading some of the garbage in GD.  Thanks for your support though, and your service to our great country (82nd).

ARFCOM the site and those who run it might be, but I seriously doubt that a large portion of it's membership is though.

Quoted: Quoted: ARFCOM the site and those who run it might be, but I seriously doubt that a large portion of it's membership is though. You failed to reply to my earlier IM and in here you continue to make blanket <wrong> generalizations.  Let it end now.   We have many dozens of LEOs who enjoy this site and the various things posted here.  If you want to spend your time railing about the few who are anti-LEO then perhaps you would be better off to restrict your reading/posting time to this particular forum of the site--or go to an LEO-only site.  You choose, but please lay off the generalized bashing--it is no different than what you are ranting about.

He is just speaking his mind on an issue that gets on many of our nerves at times.
If you're not one of the basers then I doubt he was directing his comments towards you or meant any disrespect.  I wouldnt worry too much about it, I think hes' just blowing off a little steam.  Heck atleast he came in here to vent and not GD.  To me, It does seem like there is alot of LEO bashing that is allowed to continue in the GD and in my opinion it wont end.  In the GD its commen place to see blanket <wrong> generalizations about us cops.  So with these facts in mind, I see no harm or CoC violation in the guy coming to the LEO section to gripe about it.  Not all cops are jerks and not all GD arfcomers are cop haters.  Infact some of my best (non leo) friends are arfcomers, they turned me on to this site.  Just trying to help.    Peace  

Quoted: There is a thread about the NO cop that killed himself in GD. Every damn response is that he should have, good shoot, etc. I posted that that opinion is wrong, that he deserved the same chance at trial as anybody else, etc. Of course I realize that arguing on the internet/GD in general is like running in the special olympics, but it is just truly sad the opinions of most of the posters on the GD board. I went through the same BS over an incident I was involved in back in Feb. It seems that a ton of people on the GD board are asshats and possibly a true threat to cops with their attitudes. I have always been extremely pro 2A even before I ever worked in LE. But since seeing the general attitude of tons of people, I see why alot of cops do not like/distrust gun owners. Just my minor rant. thanks for listening.

+1

I was a gun guy before I was a cop. Now I'm a cop and a gun guy. A lot of cops don't like gun guys because they think civvies don't get the same training, aren't as qualified as them, etc. A lot of gun guys don't like the cops because a lot of cops do have that attitude, and some of the civvies realize that most cops' training isn't so hot.

Both sides are right, at times. I see why a lot of cops don't like gun guys, and vice versa. It's just a big tragic misunderstanding.

Quoted: I was a gun guy before I was a cop. Now I'm a cop and a gun guy. A lot of cops don't like gun guys because they think civvies don't get the same training, aren't as qualified as them, etc. A lot of gun guys don't like the cops because a lot of cops do have that attitude, and some of the civvies realize that most cops' training isn't so hot. Both sides are right, at times. I see why a lot of cops don't like gun guys, and vice versa. It's just a big tragic misunderstanding.

Tell me about it! Just look at some of the comments I got in general about my response to asine comments about one's guns .......... (of course, those here may agree with what was said, so ......)

A and B (I'm at least an A and B person). A: personally, guns are one of those areas where I consider myself specially trained so if I am ever called into court about it, I expect that I will be judged by higher standards (or at least, the opposition will try to do such). Therefore, I conduct myself in regards to guns by higher requirements.

But as such, how I see myself with guns probably spills over how I relate to others about my guns, about how they handle their guns, (and who I associate with).

I am not currently a cop (but hope to be again), pro 2A, and yet ......... it does bug me that there are many out there who don't take the responsibility of guns as seriously as I do, who don't respect the regulations as seriously as I do, who carry (for whatever reason/belief) without going thru the hoops that I had to.

Is this a cop attitude? To me, I don't think so but rather put it down to the professionalism that has been ingrained in me .......................

(The B)

HOWEVER, one thing I've come to realize working in intelligence areas: when you are on the inside, you, at least for me, don't see all the rules, regulations, protections, mindsets, that the outside world sees as so extreme, if not so insane. You see your world as normal and the rest of the, outside, world should be like that. It is only when you get outside that you realize the rest of the world doesn't necessarily act as such.

Take your pick in any particular area. For example, I don't drink in public (even when not carrying weapons) and a lot of it has to do from the image angle because I never want anyone of the public to see me as anything but in control. This comes from being in a small town where so many people know you, what you do, and while what I do isn't police work, this type of issue is something that I understand that sheriffs, game wardens, rangers might also experience.

...........but would someone outside "such a world" understand such? I've run into a lot of people who don't, who consider the extent I take things to to be insane. And it may be, ..... but one should learn to watch their professional back.
_______________________________________________
(After letting the "Possessed" monster pickup, the star of the movie they are making, almost run him down. "Wo-w......., for a moment there, I didn't think you had control."--The Director
"Stan........I am always IN CONTROL."--Angie Ramierez in the remote control rig, (w,stte), "F/X: The Series")

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll offer one warning - what is tolerated in General Discussion is absolutely not tolerated in here (or in most other forums). Read and adhere to this forum's rules along with the conduct code.  If you are still uncertain about the guidelines, get clarification from this forum's moderators before you post. Your cooperation is appreciated.   And if anyone is curious, yes, AR15.com is a very pro-law enforcement website.  Please keep that in mind. Im sure arfcom is pro LEO for the most part but some times I wonder after reading some of the garbage in GD.  Thanks for your support though, and your service to our great country (82nd). I mean to say that we won't permit generalized bashing of law enforcement officers anywhere on the website and we restrict those heated debate threads to General Discussion (where everyone is allowed to express their opinions - minus flat out bashing).  Striker and this forum's moderators can define the goals of the BOTS forum best but generally speaking, this area is for you - for law enforcement officers, EMTs, fire fighters, paramedics, and those who support them.  Any trolling / intentional disruptions in here will be dealt with harshly. I do the same thing for the military forums.  Though, I think we've only had a few people post anti-military, war protesting garbage in there.  But we snuffed it out immediately.  If someone wants to criticize the war, they can take it to GD. Please keep in mind, General Discussion is for everyone.  We offer as much leeway as we can in there.

Great point, I can say for sure and have noticed many times that when some goof ball comes in here trolling he is kicked faster than you can blink an eye.   This forum is not for the jack asses thats for sure and admin does a good job of cleaning out the scum.  

Quoted: Quoted: Long story short, this site is GREAT for technical information, and new product info. However, most of the GD forumites support legalizing all drugs.  I think any LEO who's done any real time on the street understands what that would do to this country.  Many of the people in the GD forum have no problem with theft.  Many of them firmly believe we write traffic citations for revenue.  They haven't seen some of the accidents I have.  They are in general, cry babies with no sense of morals or decency.  They always find fault in every rule or law that keeps them from living in any irresponsible way they think they should be able to live. The sad reality is that if we met a lot of the GD forumites on the street, we'd think they were crap balls.  The fact that someone supports the Second Amendment doesn't automatically make them a good person. Well said.  I am not a LEO...yet but I get very tired of reading threads in GD where it seems that people are very quick to jump on a LEO.  LE is no easy job.  LEO's are people and people make mistakes.  I fully exepect each and every one to make mistakes.  I'm not perfect, why should I think LEO's are perfect.  A person should be held accountable for their actions...period.  Weather that person is LE or not, do a crime, get punished for it.  Pot is illegal, do it and get caught, face the consequences for it.  Theft is illegal, get caught, face the consequences.  That is life and the people that complain that cops are "JBTs" are stupid.  I have yet to see a person that got unwanted attention from LE that did not deserve it.  But thats just me.

Well said.

Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  He was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. That was the bashing of one cop, and one cop only. Right now there is a thread where the guy who started it, hoping to bash Las Vegas PD, is getting dogpiled.  Last night, another dogpile came in where the President Bush bashers essentially defended cops that screwed the pooch and failed to notify consulates in murder cases involving Mexican nationals.  GD is a big place - to even try to give a label to the whole place is applying the same broad brush you claim folks apply to law enforcement.

That is a funny thread. Hell of a backfire there.

Quoted: Quoted: How you can equate that thread to cop bashing is beyond me.  he was a coward to beat up an old man, a crooked cop to try to hide the fact, and a coward again when he offed himself. Really?  Sure it wasn't the two FBI agents who were not even charged (and who actually took him to the ground and split his face?) How did he try to hide it? Because Stu went off on a reporter who committed a battery on Stu?  Yeah, Stu screwed up, he should have just arrested the reporter---the reporter agreed and did not want to pursue the matter. Ever fought a drunk man? Yeah, Davis said he was not drunk--he also said he only had one drink, and he also said he had not had a drink in months, and he also said he had not had a drink in years......which one was true? I know several bartenders who ejected him that night for being drunk and disorderly in their bars. Which is more likely: Davis was drunk and disorderly and would not just go up the street and go home like he was asked.  Officers moved to arrest him, and he fought them.  A pair of FBI agents piled on and took him the ground, and while the officers were radiong in that a fight was going on, Stu tried to get to them through the crowd, but when he pushed one man out of his way, that man grabbed him from behind, spun him around, and shoved his press credentials in his face while shouting at him, causing Stu to momentarily lose it and push the reporter in the chest and use profanity to him. Or....... Davis asked an officer for directions to the nearest place to get a cigarette and was attacked for no reason. (By the way, no NOLA native is likely to try to buy cigs on Bourbon, let alone have to ask anyone where to get them.) Nice to know some folks know everything. As far as Lance goes, well, he was stupid for what he did in my opinion, especially given the fact that he was likely not going to be convicted anyway---the same 5th Amendment violation which got Stu cleared of his charges applied to him. Sad for his family though. On a side note, counting Lance, we are down by three after the weekend, though the other two were serving officers and died in vehicular accidents.

Scotchy, we are continuously praying for yall brothers down there. Be strong and stay safe.

Quoted: one of my first paramedic jobs was as a public safety officer. it put me off from pursuing a career in LE completely. Our chief was as corrupt as they come <later arrestted by the ABI for trafficing coccain while on duty>, and i first hand watched good leo's run off or get setup for dismissal routinely. corrupt LEO's NEED to be publically crucified when CONVICTED. you guys hold the power to ruin a life instantly. <even with a traffic ticket in some cases> you are and SHOULD be held to a higher standard. it's difficult to command the respect you deserve when you don't have the moral high ground. jmho mike

Well said.

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely

Been there, done that. Marine MP, County Officer, City Officer, found there are easier ways to make a living that pay enough to live on. Old days, big country boys that could handle the Friday and Saturday night cop battlers. No Civil Service, no required College hours, no super smart ambulance chasers to bash your cases.

Different world today, world full of shyster lawyers, you have to do the paper work and cases and be smarter than them. Hundreds of stupid laws forced on the public by the Federal Govt and tended to by local LEOs, ditto piles of laws from the mouthes of the Insurance lobby, MMAD, and others.

Then there are millions of animals out there who are eager to kill a cop, or at least beat hell out of one. Which include "jackrabbits", they who think they have to run when just being stopped with a ticket or a warning would be simpler.

So the position that the animals out there and the legislators put a LEO in today may make him appear to just be a very wary, "ticket revenuer". We allowed it to happen and it will not get better. A smile, Yes sir, no sir and coopertaion will move us farther down the road with less pain for the public and the LEOS......Have a nice day !!!