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Posted: 11/9/2004 8:48:59 PM EDT
Perhaps this is only new to me, but still.  How do I avoid buying one?
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:49:54 PM EDT
Buy it. It is cheaper now than ever before.

Buy Buy buy buy buy...
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:51:25 PM EDT
Buy it.  If you have played Splinter Cell - that's the pistol the man used.  Of course, it had gimmicks that are not standard.....
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:54:18 PM EDT
Oh god no please dont make me do it.  It's just too cool.  Please tell the voices in my head to stop telling me to buy it.  What could possibly be a better cross between an AR Pistol and a High Powerd handgun?  This cant be happening all at once.  Cant breathe.  Must have air to decide. Somebody please tell me this isn't as cool as it seems to me.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:55:23 PM EDT
Where is this pistol being sold, and how much are they asking for it?
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:55:41 PM EDT
20-rd mags, civie-legal, low recoil, HIGH velocity, $700, what are you waiting for, man.

I would buy it if I had the funds.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:56:22 PM EDT
the question you just asked was directed at the wrong group of people.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:56:29 PM EDT
Its REALLY big and ugly, and the ammo is mad expensive.

save the money for the civvie legal P90, if and when that ever comes out.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:56:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jkstexas2001:
Where is this pistol being sold, and how much are they asking for it?



5-7

There HAS to be something wrong with this?@?@?@?!@?!?!?@#>@@%$#?
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:57:59 PM EDT
I bought one - CDNN for $700.

CMMG has 20rnders for it for about $35.

Reeds has ammo for about 35 cents a round.

Here's a pic of the five seven ammo versus .223

Link Posted: 11/9/2004 8:59:52 PM EDT
It would make more sense if you could buy the "verbotten" ammo... which you can't, otherwise it's just another overpriced handgun with a respected name attached to it.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:00:02 PM EDT
Not to mention very accurate and flat-shooting.


A .22 magnum on steroids.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:03:18 PM EDT
what is the stopping power of the 5.7mm though? It seems to me like it would be even poorer then a .223 (out of a pistol length barrel). Is it any better then a .22?
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:03:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2004 9:09:13 PM EDT by niceguymr]
It's described as having the penetrating power of a 223 with less recoil than a 9mm.  What gives?




The Five-seveN Pistol is the companion weapon to the P90 sub-machine gun. The 5.7x28mm ammunition has the capability of penetrating body armor at extended ranges, yet has less felt recoil and is less prone to over-penetration. The Five-seveN Tactical is an easily concealable single action pistol with a 20-round magazine capacity. A maximum use has been made of composite materials in the frame and slide to result in an extremely light weight, 1.7 pound, design.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:04:24 PM EDT
If someone would manufacture it, a five-seven minigun (maybe shoulder mounted) could be interesting
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:06:56 PM EDT
I've heard a few rumors going around about the Five-seveN platform being offered in 10mm Auto.... anyone else hear anything? Or are there a few dumbasses who I need to straighten out?
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:11:33 PM EDT
There are some other threads on this board about the five seven.  In one of them, a guy took a new level 2 vest and shot it with 45acp, 44mag, and 357mag.  The vest stopped all of them.  Behind the vest, was two phonebooks stacked one behind the other.

The five seven went through the vest, went through the first phonebook, and lodged in the last.  Oh, and that was with the supposedly non-armor piercing civilian hollow-point "training" ammo.

I figure everyone should have one armor piercing handgun - you never know when the bad guys are going to be wearing vests.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:13:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:15:10 PM EDT
I have one and its a blast to shoot. I need some 20 rd mags for it and I'm good to go!
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:15:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:16:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SilverState:
There are some other threads on this board about the five seven.  In one of them, a guy took a new level 2 vest and shot it with 45acp, 44mag, and 357mag.  The vest stopped all of them.  Behind the vest, was two phonebooks stacked one behind the other.

The five seven went through the vest, went through the first phonebook, and lodged in the last.  Oh, and that was with the supposedly non-armor piercing civilian hollow-point "training" ammo.

I figure everyone should have one armor piercing handgun - you never know when the bad guys are going to be wearing vests.




I do have a CZ 52 in 7.62 x 25. Will have to do for now.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:18:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:20:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:24:37 PM EDT
20 round mags = good times.

You should buy it.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:30:00 PM EDT
I took mine to the range this last weekend.  It was a blast to shoot.  Almost no recoil.  You can pump 20 rounds into your target in less than five seconds.  I don't care what the haters say, I wouldn't want to get shot with this thing - vest or no vest.

I don't think it is going to take the place of rifles, and particularly ARs, but it is a bad ass handgun.  And the tests done by other forum members indicate that the projectiles tumble upon impact.  They also leave the "short" barrel at over 2100 feet per second.
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:34:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By QuantumPion:
what is the stopping power of the 5.7mm though? It seems to me like it would be even poorer then a .223 (out of a pistol length barrel). Is it any better then a .22?



The wound potential with even the best ammo is DISMAL with this gun.  Yes, it can penetrate pistol-rated vests, but it wounds like a .22LR, and sometimes not even that well.

The round was designed for the full-auto P90, which has a longer barrel (higher velocity) and can spray long bursts of bullets into someone from across a room, which is what they're designed for.  While the individual rounds are still very lousy at wounding, when you can put 10-15 rounds in someone in 2 seconds, it can be effective.

From the Five-seveN pistol, you get single shots, and much lower velocity due to the shorter barrel.  Again, wound potential like a .22LR.  Once most police departments figured that out, sales of this gun dropped to nearly zero, and FN was forced to change their stance and try to sell the guns to the general public to recoup some of their money.

I would strongly recommend that you do NOT use it to defend yourself with...

-Troy



But but but... The bullets are pointier!  They must be "mad leathal"!
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 9:41:26 PM EDT
When anything is traveling 2100 fps isn't it inherently AP?
Link Posted: 11/9/2004 10:55:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 12:09:50 AM EDT
get it

i would

but i'm not 21 (yet)
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 12:22:58 AM EDT
so is it cali legal/?
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 12:23:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gunsmithdude:
so is it cali legal/?



nope.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 12:48:19 AM EDT
The 9 out of 10 voices in my head are telling me to tell you yo buy it

Voice 1)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 2)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 3)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 4)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 5)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 6)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 7)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 8)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 9)Buy it Now niceguymr
Voice 10)I like PIE
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 5:15:52 AM EDT
For what it's worth, I like it. Given my choice as a carry weapon, I'd take a good .45 ACP over that in a second.....but like others have said, it sure would be cool to have in the collection. As your primary pistol, never. As an addition to a collection, DEFINATELY.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 7:20:47 AM EDT
I have this gun and love it.  I purchased it solely to add to my collection.  One thing people forgot to mention is that this thing is wicked light.  WAY lighter than any Glock or tupperware gun.  It is a joy to shoot and will make anyone look good.  Almost completely flat trajectory and good grouping.  I just wish it had a removable front site.  It does not it is fixed.  If I was allowed to CCW I would consider this gun.  Plus the 20rd mags don’t hurt.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 7:24:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By QuantumPion:
what is the stopping power of the 5.7mm though? It seems to me like it would be even poorer then a .223 (out of a pistol length barrel). Is it any better then a .22?



The wound potential with even the best ammo is DISMAL with this gun.  Yes, it can penetrate pistol-rated vests, but it wounds like a .22LR, and sometimes not even that well.

The round was designed for the full-auto P90, which has a longer barrel (higher velocity) and can spray long bursts of bullets into someone from across a room, which is what they're designed for.  While the individual rounds are still very lousy at wounding, when you can put 10-15 rounds in someone in 2 seconds, it can be effective.

From the Five-seveN pistol, you get single shots, and much lower velocity due to the shorter barrel.  Again, wound potential like a .22LR.  Once most police departments figured that out, sales of this gun dropped to nearly zero, and FN was forced to change their stance and try to sell the guns to the general public to recoup some of their money.

I would strongly recommend that you do NOT use it to defend yourself with...

-Troy



+1

Don't buy it if you want a practical, useful handgun.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 7:29:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SilverState:


I don't think it is going to take the place of rifles, and particularly ARs, but it is a bad ass handgun.  And the tests done by other forum members indicate that the projectiles tumble upon impact.  They also leave the "short" barrel at over 2100 feet per second.



So basically its a .22wmr pistol.


I'll be sticking with my .45.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 7:31:11 AM EDT
Of course you should buy it, and then (if your a cop) you should shoot some dogs with it and tell us about its lethality
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 7:41:40 AM EDT
While this gun strikes me as being an uberkool range item, the penetration issue gives me pause for defensive applications.

You don't want to punch holes through the bad guy.  You're responsible for everything the round hits.  If it passes through and keeps going, your name is still attached to it.

For defense, it's better to have something that creates an entry wound and then stops, transferring energy within the BG.

With that said, I'd like to have one.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 7:59:36 AM EDT
The original post was, "how can I avoid buying one".

Lots of critics chimed in about how it's like a .22 and so on.  That's the same thing people say about the .223, but yet we trust our troops and our nation's security with it.

Anyway, most of those critics are still unable to keep from admitting that if they had the cash, they would add this pistol to their collection.  I agree with that assessment and I did add it to my collection.  So even if some people don't take my comments "seriously", the fact remains that this is a quality lightweight ergonomic accurate handgun that is a pleasure to shoot with a 20 round capacity that goes through body armor at over 2100 feet per second.

Should it be your only gun, that's up to you.  I have several others, but would not feel unsafe with this weapon.

When I get some time, I am going see if I can't shoot a pig with this thing - I will let you know what the wounds look like.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:38:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2004 8:58:07 AM EDT by az_larry]
I agree with Troy. I have a P90 and it would probably be the last rifle in the safe I'd grab for SHTF. It's fun but not very effective. The other day I recoverd an old armor plate (kevlar, ceramic and steel) out of an old Huey. I shot it with .308 (good results, blasted out the kevlar and ceramic and dented the steel) 7.62X39 (close to the .308) 5.45X39 (very impressive blasted all the kevlar and ceramic out of a 4 inch area but didn't dent the plate) .223 both green tip and XM193, (dented the plate but displaced less kevlar than the 7.62 and 5.45 a round of 5.7 duty ammo, not the practice ammo. It did almost nothing. It penetrated the kevlar and displaced a very small amount of ceramic. The most damaging was an old Mosin Nagant with 7.62X54R steel core that almost penetrated the plate. It displaced the kevlar, a bunch of ceramic and cracked the steel. I thought the P90 duty round would at least dent the plate but it was dismal. Now a mag dump at close range against a soft armored target would be devestating, but I think the pistol is useless. In have pics of the plate but it will be hard to read my chicken scratches with the marker so I didn't hassle with posting it. If anyone wants to try I'll email the pic for posting.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:41:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:42:34 AM EDT
All ballistic data aside, I would definitely like to have one!
I do not like the "glove finger" trigger guard, however. It seems to me FN did that more to create an immediately distinguishabe feature to the weapon rather than add any real pratical advantage.

This is still a new caliber. I am quite sure there will be further developments as regards the 5.7 cartridge.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:44:23 AM EDT
If you have the money, and do not plan to rely on it for self defense, I'd get one.  There are guns that are used for self protection, and there are guns purchased for their "fun" value.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:52:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2004 8:56:06 AM EDT by panzersergeant]

Originally Posted By az_larry:
I agree with Troy. I have a P90 and it would probably be the last rifle in the safe I'd grab for SHTF. It's fun but not very effective. The other day I recoverd an old armor plate (kevlar, ceramic and steel) out of an old Huey. I shot it with .308 (good results, blasted out the kevlar and ceramic and dented the steel) 7.62X39 (close to the .308) 5.45X39 (very impressive blasted all the kevlar and ceramic out of a 4 inch area but didn't dent the plate) .223 both green tip and XM193, (dented the plate but displaced less kevlar than the 7.62 and 5.45 a round of 5.7 duty ammo, not the practice ammo. It did almost nothing. It penetrated the kevlar and displaced a very small amount of ceramic. The most damaging was an old Mosin Nagant with 7.62X39R steel core that almost penetrated the plate. It displaced the kevlar, a bunch of ceramic and cracked the steel. I thought the P90 duty round would at least dent the plate but it was dismal. Now a mag dump at close range against a soft armored target would be devestating, but I think the pistol is useless. In have pics of the plate but it will be hard to read my chicken scratches with the marker so I didn't hassle with posting it. If anyone wants to try I'll email the pic for posting.



Don't you mean 7.62X54
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:55:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2004 8:56:28 AM EDT by Polyak]

Originally Posted By Aimless:
lead throwing toy



+1



Originally Posted By SilverState:


Lots of critics chimed in about how it's like a .22 and so on. That's the same thing people say about the .223, but yet we trust our troops and our nation's security with it.




Get real man, there is a BIG difference between the .223 arguement and the 5.7.  For one, the .223(5.56) FRAGMENTS, the 5.7 does not.  Listen to Troy, he knows of what he speaks.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:57:31 AM EDT
Why wouldn't someone come up with a wildcat for the 5-7 that's a round using a straightwall case ala .30carbine.   Loaded to sufficient pressures with a capable expanding point bullet, combined with 20 round mags, it could be a very effective handgun.    As it stands, I wouldn't buy one in the .22 caliber for the same reasons I see no reason to own a 5.56 AR pistol.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:58:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:58:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By panzersergeant:
[Don't you mean 7.62X54



Yep, fixed. Thanks!
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 8:59:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2004 9:01:12 AM EDT by thompsondd]




1911 .45ACP for me.
Link Posted: 11/10/2004 9:10:16 AM EDT



BFR .30/30 Winchester Revolver

$999.00


This .30/30 Winchester revolver is brushed stainless steel construction with a 10-inch barrel. The barrel is stress-relieved and cut rifled.

All BFR's (except for .45LC/410) sold after 1-1-04 are drilled and tapped for our MRI custom silver scope mount which is included with the BFR revolver and will accomdate any Weaver style rings (see any long cylinder 7.5-inch part number for photo of mount).


Bore Diameter (inches): .300
Groove Diameter (inches): .308
Twist Rate (inches): 1 in 10
Overall Length (inches): 17.5
Approximate Weight: 4.36 Lbs.
Height (inches): 6
Width (inches): 1.75
Trigger Pull: 3-4 Lbs.
Number of Shots: 5
Sights: Factory Black Fixed Front/Rear Adjustable

Legal for Sale in California pursuant to Sec. 12133 of SB15.



[beavis and butthead voice]Huh HUH![/beavis and butthead voice]



Link Posted: 11/10/2004 9:10:44 AM EDT
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