Or comming soon. The paper had a large article about suspecting meth to be reaching my little town. They dont think its widespread yet, or growing, as we have Heroin instead. But they have treated one person for meth related symptoms at the local hospital.

Some health officials say that methamphetamine is creeping quietly into Carroll County.

And they're bracing themselves.

Although meth abuse is concentrated in the Western, Southwestern and Midwestern United States, Mark Yount, a substance abuse prevention coordinator for Carroll County at Junction Inc., in Westminster, said meth is here.

"I think we're at the tip of the iceberg," he said.

Yount measures the likeliness that meth is here by what he hears from his clients and from others in the drug prevention, recovery and treatment field - that methamphetamine is in Carroll County.

"We're hearing from too many sources about it," he said.

But the numbers don't back up the claim.

From 1999-2003, the most recent data available, the number of people receiving treatment for meth in Carroll County remained low, especially when compared to the numbers of treatment admissions for heroin, which in 2003 was at 519.

In 2001, six people cited meth as a reason for being in treatment; in 2002, the number dropped to five; and in 2003, six people cited meth as a reason for treatment, according to data kept by the Maryland Alcohol and Drug Abuse Administration (ADAA).

In March 2005, one person was admitted to the Carroll Hospital Center emergency room for meth-related problems, according to hospital ER statistics.

In surrounding counties, the numbers also remain low, when compared to other drugs. In Baltimore County, 16 people cited methamphetamine as a reason for getting treatment, in 2002. In 2003, that number was 14, according to ADAA data.

But even the small number should be a warning, Yount said. He remembers 1993 - that's when people started showing up in the hospital for heroin. Only five years later, the heroin problem in Carroll County was epidemic.

"My goal is trying to stay ahead of things," he said. "We've been warned for years that meth is coming our way. And it looks like its finally here."

No one can pinpoint a reason why meth hasn't hit Maryland at the rate it has in other states, like Tennessee and Oregon. In both states, close to 1,000 labs were seized by the Drug Enforcement Administration last year.

The demand for and availability of meth in Maryland is low, according to a report released this year by the Center for Substance Abuse Research, but the report gives no clear reason why.

Methamphetamine users in Maryland tend to be white males, with both white- and blue-collar jobs, long-distance truckers, youths, homosexuals and those who are into raves and clubs, the report states.

Cathy Baker, program director at Shoemaker Center, a residential drug and alcohol treatment facility in Sykesville, said that one person, a woman who picked up the habit in California and then moved to Maryland, has been treated for meth addiction in the past 12 months.

"I'm not discounting that it's here," she said. "But I don't think it's to the degree that it's used in the Midwest and Southern states."

Debbie Kehs, vice president of Carroll County's Residents Attacking Drugs, also said she's not sure meth is here.

But she remembers how shocked people were when they realized heroin was a problem in Carroll County. Even though there is no indication of a meth problem, Kehs wonders if meth is the next big thing.

George Butler, a drug investigator with the state's attorney's office, wonders if meth is coming to Carroll, too.

"There's nothing to say that it's here," Butler said. "But we've been bracing for it.

Yea, oldish (week or two) article, but still. Its only gonna get worse...hopefully not though.

This is a terribl edrug, I feel for anyone invoved.'

PS, i ben drinhung, it terribul too.

Funny thing is we just had a report on the local news about the number of meth labs growing in our community.. It's probably nonsense. I think it's just a scare tactic combined with someones political agenda. The report said that while new meth labs are popping up, there have been no arrests made and reports show no increase in meth use. WTF does that mean!? You found a number of new meth labs, but no one was arrested..and no one is really using this shit as far as you can tell? So where's the big fuc*ing problem?

Something isn't right with this picture.

Coincidently this report was made just days before Westchester County D.A., Jenine Pirro announced she was running against Hillary Clinton for her NY senate seat.. Perhaps in an attempt to get some desperately needed press time before the big announcement.

Did I read that right? They don't believe there's a meth problem because people aren't seeking treatment for meth addictions?

Maybe people are abusing the drug and not seeking help -- That's the problem.

Quoted: Did I read that right? They don't believe there's a meth problem because people aren't seeking treatment for meth addictions? Maybe people are abusing the drug and not seeking help -- That's the problem.

You hit the nail on the head there, around here it was coke in the 80s and 90s then Meth took over with the white population at least after that. It gives more bang for the buck pure and simple, longer high for less money. Nasty stuff, some of the guys that have been doing it steady for the last 6 or 7 years have started dying young latley though. A heart attack at 40 isn't exactly normal.......

Quoted: This is a terribl edrug, I feel for anyone invoved.' PS, i ben drinhung, it terribul too.

LOL.

And yet another reason why we shouldn't post after drinking all night.

That shit (Meth) is the worst.

About every other guy I work with in the shop is either DOING meth ("All spun-out again...just can't wait to get all spun-out again..." sung to the tune of "On the road again"), SELLING meth or in "Recovery" (Nudge from the judge) for getting caught DOING or SELLING it. lol (I'm almost convinced that you can't full-pen' weld in Oregon until you FAIL a piss test for the shit)

10-15 yrs ago everyone thought it was a "Safe" and non-addictive recreational drug but I got schooled early.  A couple of friends of mine (Man and wife) who I worked with in mental-health took food (That I'd bought for their children thinking [stupidly] that they were just in a financial pinch) back to the GD'd grocery store I'd bought it at (I left the receipt in the bag) and had the money refunded to to score some crystal with

My best friend from the Army who I'd known for a decade got into the shit and I seriously thought I was going to have to kill him (Or risk him killing me) because he became this SERIOUSLY unstable freak-show who'd tell you how much he valued your friendship one minute and then threaten to "Waste" you the next if he took something you said wrong.

White dopers can ESAD for all I care.  My GF's son's business partner (They're contractors) just died 3 weeks ago at the ripe old age of 36 because the stupid shit was making his own "Recipe" with lord knows WHAT in it and managed to kill his own bad self with a slight chemical reaction

F**K meth.

Quoted: Or comming soon. The paper had a large article about suspecting meth to be reaching my little town. They dont think its widespread yet, or growing, as we have Heroin instead. But they have treated one person for meth related symptoms at the local hospital.

Meth has been sold on the streets for the last 30 years that I am aware of (bike gangs were into this in a big way) and was generally considered the "Cheap mans cocaine".  In the past few years though folks found that almost any moron could extract if from cold meds in their kitchen, add to this the ease that this info can be obtained through the internet.

Quoted: Did I read that right? They don't believe there's a meth problem because people aren't seeking treatment for meth addictions? Maybe people are abusing the drug and not seeking help -- That's the problem.

The problem with treatment is that it's very expensive and generally only available to those with a good enough health plan to afford it.  Free treatment has a waiting list months long.

Quoted: Funny thing is we just had a report on the local news about the number of meth labs growing in our community.. It's probably nonsense. I think it's just a scare tactic combined with someones political agenda. The report said that while new meth labs are popping up, there have been no arrests made and reports show no increase in meth use. WTF does that mean!? You found a number of new meth labs, but no one was arrested..and no one is really using this shit as far as you can tell? So where's the big fuc*ing problem?

Many local governments are pushing for a "meth tax" so you may hear a lot more about the problem in the near future.  Of course the money will more than likely go into some type of "General Fund" and be available for what ever the politicians want it for.

Quoted: Quoted: Did I read that right? They don't believe there's a meth problem because people aren't seeking treatment for meth addictions? Maybe people are abusing the drug and not seeking help -- That's the problem. You hit the nail on the head there, around here it was coke in the 80s and 90s then Meth took over with the white population at least after that. It gives more bang for the buck pure and simple, longer high for less money. Nasty stuff, some of the guys that have been doing it steady for the last 6 or 7 years have started dying young latley though. A heart attack at 40 isn't exactly normal.......

Coke high is WAAAAY better though.

Quoted: The problem with treatment is that it's very expensive and generally only available to those with a good enough health plan to afford it.  Free treatment has a waiting list months long.

I was more questioning the logic of "There can't be a problem because there aren't many meth heads in our clinic."

crsytal meth's a helluva drug!

double tap

Looking at the current Meth problem brings me back to the late '70s in Philadelphia.

Me and my "friends" did, sold, and bought enough of the shit to know.

I can tell you first hand the crap is wrong. Stay Cranked up for 3 days straight and you start to see shadows moving. Way back then I worked with this girl who did the shit for so long her teeth were worn down from grinding them, and she looked way older then she really was.

I got my shit together, haven't touched it in 25 years, and don't miss it at all. And I don't miss the losers I used to hand out with either.

The other day at work (Books a Million) I made myself a really good drink. 5 shots of Espresso on ice, hey, that's the only speed I do. I was zooming till like 8 in the morning.

If I had stuck with the old regiment I would probably be dead by now. Or at the least be in Prison.

I do try to keep it easy with the Espresso, but a few shots here and there can't be that bad a thing.

William J. Paradise
TSGT USAF Retired

they have treated one person for meth related symptoms

Which means that meth has been in your little burb for quite some time and it's use is very wide spread.

Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[ 4.) Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities - that would you. - Paul]

Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!!

Here's a link you might want to read

I'm thinking ARFCOM group buy!  

From what I understand, these 'labs' are passed from truck to trunk and moved constantly where I live.  It changes people almost instantly.  I have had to watch several people I know screwed up on this crap.  
Everyone gets real skinny and they become the best liars on earth.  
My grand daughter has been the most victimized, and even with an ongoing child endangerment investigation she has been allowed to be taken out of state by her mother because she attended a 3 week program Momma has been on and off this crap for 10 years, and they actually think three weeks of testing clean, on the same scheduled day of the week, for a month after her treatment means she is cured.  ( treatment consisted of sitting in several meetings a day, with a bunch of other meth/crack heads talking about the dangers) She only attended the program because the police were allowed into her home and found paraphenalia and powder residue in the childs room.  These people have to want to stop for any treatment to work.
I noticed the drop in the babys appetite from being exposed to the smoke, when she lived with me that girl ate like she just discovered food.  On several occasions she would tell me, Mommy don't let me eat food.
I hate it. I hate it and in case I forgot to mention, I hate that crap!! The case worker needs to get her head out of her a$$.  
Sorry, needed to bitch some.  I miss her.I wish I could have done more to protect her.

Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! Duh!!!

ME----YOU

What's wrong with you posting shit like that??  Daddy not give you enough attention.  Or maybe he gave you too much attention and made you suck his cock.

Quoted: Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! ME----YOU What's wrong with you posting shit like that??  Daddy not give you enough attention.  Or maybe he gave you too much attention and made you suck his cock.

Nice link that you left in your post when you quoted him.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! ME----YOU What's wrong with you posting shit like that??  Daddy not give you enough attention.  Or maybe he gave you too much attention and made you suck his cock. Nice link that you left in your post when you quoted him.

Thanks. (took it out)

You guys are mistaken if you don't realize meth is everywhere, especially in the small towns. As you know it does not get imported, it can be manufactured ANYWHERE. The smaller the town the better. People are less aware of the signs. Being familiar with the small town culture I can tell you first hand, when it gets its claws in it damb near ruins the place. It brings out the worst in good people. Worse than crack in my opinion, it doesn't have the stigmatism.  

ETA. Sorry to hear about your family syntax.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! ME----YOU Thanks. (took it out)

I think it was a joke, it posts your IP info and a DEA logo.  Lighten up Francis.

We are starting to get "labs" in Vermont.  I am aware of two occassions where officers actually picked up discarded labs and took them back to their PDs.  A lot of people worry about the meth.  We also need to worry about the labs.  They are HAZMAT scenes and should be handled as such.  I used to think all meth had an odor and would be detectable.  I was told sometimes it can be manufactured with little to no odor.  I have no confirmed this.

Either way when meth is made there are some hazards both chemical and explosive.  I saw one post that stated truck to trunk.  The one that concerns me are the groups that hook up at a hotel and make it for a weekend and then leave once the meth is sold.  How well is that hotel/motel room cleaned, especially if by product or waste is taken with the people when they leave to avoid detection.  I hate to put it this way, but I am concerned about my kids playing on the floor of an improperly cleaned hazmat scene or spending time in a car that was a hazmat scene.  I do not know how long or if ever the residue become safe to be in contact with.  

Just a couple of additional concerns beyond the crime that is committed to support yet another drug habit or as a result of the use of the drug.  Much less the impact on our fiends and family who experience the destuction caused by meth.

Before the need to increase taxes or create this or that task force.  We can police each other as friends or take action to stop the illegal activity by notifying police when we see it.  

Just my .02

Mike

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! ME----YOU Thanks. (took it out) I think it was a joke, it posts your IP info and a DEA logo.  Lighten up Francis.

There was no way in hell that I was going to go anywhere past that first page.

Meth is the worst thing I have ever seen it makes people do some really stupid shit.

I know several people who are in jail or have been arrested because of the drug. Some for dealing and alot more for theft.

I live in Elkhart Indiana trailer factory capitol of the world and we probably have the highest rate of meth users in Indiana.

From what I have heard the Mexican mafia plays a large part in the meth business. Parts of our town are overrun with illegals. Our local paper is filled with DUI and identity theft caused by them. This town has really become a shithole.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! ME----YOU Thanks. (took it out) I think it was a joke, it posts your IP info and a DEA logo.  Lighten up Francis.

Wow...

My host name is "localhost" and my IP addie is 127.0.0.1
I'm like totally impressed with his script fu.

The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs
by Edward M. Brecher and the Editors of Consumer Reports Magazine, 1972



Chapter 37. Enter the "speed freak"

Amphetamines taken orally can be used in excess with unfortunate results; but enormous quantities of oral amphetamines were consumed in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s with apparently little misuse. As late as 1963, indeed, the American Medical Association's Council on Drugs, while recognizing the possibility of misuse, reported that "at this time compulsive abuse of the amphetamines constitutes . . . a small problem [in the United States]." 1 Much the same finding was reported from Sweden (see Chapter 39).

The intravenous injection of large doses of amphetamines, in contrast, is among the most disastrous forms of drug use yet devised. The early history of amphetamine mainlining has been explored by a California criminologist and authority on illicit drug use, Dr. Roger C. Smith, in an, unpublished study he made available for this Report. Dr. Smith is now director of Marin Open House, a comprehensive center for drug and other problems in San Rafael, California. The Smith study was a part of the San Francisco Amphetamine Research Project, financed by the National Institute of Mental Health and launched by Dr. Smith in May 1968, in cooperation with the Haight-Ashbury Medical Clinic in San Francisco. Much of this chapter is drawn from Dr. Smith's study, "The Marketplace of Speed: Violence and Compulsive Methamphetamine Abuse," and from a report by a California psychiatrist, Dr. John C. Kramer, entitled "Introduction to Amphetamine Abuse," published in the  Journal of Psychedelic Drugs in 1969. Dr. Kramer began his amphetamine research while he was on the staff of the California Rehabilitation Center in Corona, California–– a center in which "speed freaks" as well as heroin addicts are incarcerated; he is at this writing on the faculty of the University of California at Irvine and on the staff of Dr. Jerome H. Jaffe's Special Action Office for Drug Abuse Prevention in Washington, D.C.

The earliest reference to the intravenous use of amphetamines that Dr. Smith was able to unearth concerned groups of American servicemen stationed in Korea and Japan during the early 1950s. 2 These men were said to have learned to mix amphetamines–– then nicknamed "splash" with heroin and to inject the combination. This was, in effect, the traditional "speedball," with amphetamine substituted for cocaine. Servicemen brought the custom home with them after the Korean War. No doubt other small groups also learned to mainline amphetamine, alone or with heroin, during the 1950s; but no public furor was raised against the practice–– and it did not spread alarmingly–– until the 1960s.

Sigmund Freud's first dispensing of cocaine to a patient, it will be recalled, was to help his pain-wracked friend, Fleischl-Marxow, get along without morphine. During the late 1950s, in the San Francisco Bay Area, a number of physicians prescribed amphetamine injections for the same purpose–– or allegedly for the same purpose.

Dr. Smith reports there is little doubt that some Bay Area physicians were sincere in this use of amphetamines as a treatment for heroin addiction. They were nevertheless arrested for supplying drugs to heroin addicts. Other California physicians, it appears, were less conscientious. Some of them, for example, prescribed Methedrine (methamphetamine) "for heroin addiction" without even examining patients to see if they had needle marks. One Methedrine user told Dr. Smith:  

Then there was a doctor ... who would write anything for anybody at anytime and he was making $7 a visit and on the day we went down there he wrote almost 400 prescriptions at $7 a head. So you can imagine how much money he was making. He made $2,800 that one day and they used to make caravans down there and even from [Los Angeles] to his place. You'd get within two blocks of his office and you'd start seeing people you knew from all over. 3

One heroin addict reported that for $6 or $7 he could get from one physician a prescription for 100 Methedrine ampules–– plus hypodermic needles and sedatives. He could then sell enough of the ampules at $1 or $1.50 apiece to make a living. "In many instances," Dr. Smith adds, "heroin addicts who had formerly engaged in burglary, bad checks, credit cards, or a variety of other 'hustles,' began to make money exclusively by sales of Methedrine." 4 It was at about this time, in the early 1960s, that Methedrine came to be known as "speed"–– perhaps an allusion to its use in the traditional "speedball." More recently, "speed" has come to refer to  any amphetamine which is injected intravenously.

In addition to the "scrip-writer" physicians described above, some San Francisco pharmacies began selling injectable amphetamines without a prescription, or on the basis of crudely forged prescriptions, or on a telephoned "prescription" from a user posing as a physician. Federal, state, and local law-enforcement agencies cracked down on such practices in 1962 and 1963; physicians and pharmacists alike were convicted of law violations, accompanied by widespread publicity. Thus the delights of amphetamine mainlining, previously known primarily to heroin addicts, became a matter of common knowledge and general interest.

When the injectable amphetamine scandal broke publicly in 1962, and federal and state agents descended on the manufacturers, Abbott withdrew Desoxyn ampules from the market. In July 1963, Burroughs Wellcome similarly withdrew Methedrine ampules from distribution through retail pharmacies, but continued to make them available to hospitals as an adjunct to surgical anesthesia and for other essential uses. Withdrawal of legal supplies meeting FDA standards of purity for injectable products marked a turn for the worse. The black market next secured nonsterile amphetamines at trivial cost in vast quantity from large chemical manufacturing companies which shipped in bulk. The infection rate among addicts no doubt rose when these nonsterile products took the place of FDA-approved ampules.

The 1962 crackdown on legal sources of amphetamines also triggered the emergence of illicit factories, called "speed labs," where speed was manufactured. "According to many of the users interviewed during the course of this study," Dr. Smith reports, " 'speed labs' began to operate as early as 1962, and by 1963 several labs were in operation in the San Francisco Bay Area. Because of the shortage of speed in other cities on the West Coast [a shortage caused by the withdrawal of Burroughs Wellcome and Abbott ampules and by the crackdown on physicians and pharmacies], the manufacture and distribution of speed became an extremely profitable enterprise, and opened up new sources of revenue within the San Francisco drug scene." 5 The further history of these labs will be reviewed in Chapter 40. *



* The 1965 amendments to the federal drug laws, by requiring manufacturers and wholesalers to keep records of all shipments, made it more difficult to divert legal amphetamines to the black market. This served to protect the "speed labs" from low price legal competition and enabled them to raise prices. American black-market operators got around the new law, however, by placing large orders for legal amphetamines to be sent to addresses in Mexico; they then smuggled the American amphetamines back into the United States. (The same dodge had been used by morphine traffickers during the first years after passage of the Harrison Act of 1914.) When law-enforcement officers at length caught up with this practice, excessive shipments to Mexico were curbed. This further protected the black-market speed labs in the United States from competition.



By 1965 or 1966, the full impact of speed mainlining became visible. A report entitled "Amphetamine Abuse: Pattern and Effects of High Doses Taken Internally," by Drs. John C. Kramer, Vitezslav Fischman, and Don C. Littlefield in the  Journal of the American Medical Association for July 31, 1967, outlined the problem–– and Dr. Kramer's 1969 paper, cited above, supplied later details.

The first use of intravenous amphetamine, Dr. Kramer notes, is "an ecstatic experience," and the user's first thought is, "Where has this been all my life?" Dr. Kramer goes on, "The experience somehow differs from the effects of oral amphetamines not only quantitatively but also qualitatively." After this first experience, the user mainlines intermittently for a time; "doses probably equivalent to twenty to forty milligrams per injection may be taken once or a very few times over a day or two. Days or weeks may intervene between sprees. Gradually the sprees become longer and the intervening periods shorter; doses become higher and injections more frequent." 6 The sequence recalls Dr. von Fleischl-Marxow's experience with cocaine in Vienna in the 1880s. "After a period of several months," Dr. Kramer continues, "the final pattern is reached in which the user (now called a 'speed-freak') injects his drug many times a day, each dose in the hundreds of milligrams, and remains awake continuously for three to six days, getting gradually more tense, tremulous and paranoid as the 'run' progresses. The runs are interrupted by bouts of very profound sleep (called 'crashing') which last a day or two. Shortly after waking ... the drug is again injected and a new run starts. The periods of continuous wakefulness may be prolonged to weeks if the user attempts to sleep even as little as an hour a day. " 7

Dr. Kramer cautions against the simplistic view that anyone who once shoots amphetamine intravenously inevitably follows this pattern of escalation. "There are individuals who have tried it once or several times and have chosen not to continue." 8 Nevertheless, the tendency to progress to compulsive use is very strong.

The desired effects of speed-injecting, Dr. Kramer continues, "are extremely vulnerable to the impingement of tolerance. It takes ever more drug to recreate this chemical nirvana. It is the desire to re-experience the flash and the desire to remain euphoric, and to avoid the fatigue and the depression of the 'coming down,' which drives the users to persist and necessarily to increase their dose and frequency of injection. And it is this persistence of use and these large doses which bring on all the other effects of these drugs." 9

Dr. Roger C. Smith here adds a highly significant fact about the intravenous-amphetamine euphoria. Many young people in our culture are brought up with a seriously damaged self-image. The methods of discipline imposed upon them as children, or other factors, convince them of their own inherent worthlessness, though they may mask this sense of worthlessness with bravado. "Many of the young people who are currently involved in the speed scene," Dr. Smith notes, "report that they were initially attracted to the drug because of the instant improvement noted in self-image. Many suffered from feelings of inferiority and lack of self worth, which manifested itself in chronic, and often debilitating, depression.

"Many [of these young people with damaged self-images] had experimented with a variety of depressants, including heroin, barbiturates, and alcohol, but found that this only increased their feelings of depression and self-deprecation. The alleviation of depression brought about by the use of speed may well be the key factor in determining why some individuals progress from occasional to compulsive use of the drug" 10 –– though Dr. Smith also emphasizes that other factors may come into play as well.

In any event, Dr. Kramer points out, the improvement of self-image and relief from depression is purchased at a very high price if intravenous amphetamines are the mode of relief. Whether or not small oral doses of amphetamine are effective aids to dieting, the large doses taken during speed "runs" produce profound anorexia (lack of appetite). "Users uniformly lose weight during periods of abuse. Appetite suppression may be so profound that users may find the very act of swallowing difficult." 11 Some users force themselves to take small amounts of highly nutritious foods or beverages, or inject themselves with vitamins and dietary supplements. Upon awakening after a prolonged speed run, a riser may eat large amounts. But even so, "undernutrition and malnutrition result, and undoubtedly complicate all the other effects of high dose amphetamine use." 12

Sleep deprivation similarly exacerbates and complicates the direct pharmacological effects of the drug. "The observation that many of the physical and psychological symptoms are largely dissipated after sleeping for a day or two suggests that the insomnia alone is a major contributor to the syndrome," Dr. Kramer notes. But, he adds, "the fact that some symptoms persist after weeks or months of abstinence indicates that sleep deprivation is not alone responsible. Considering that the usual pattern seen during well-established high dose abuse is of three to six days of wakefulness followed by one or two days of sleep.... users spend about one-fourth of their time in sleep, about the same proportion as non-users only distributed differently." 13

A paranoid psychosis, similar to the cocaine psychosis, is the almost inevitable result of long-term, high-dose, intravenous speed injection. This psychosis "can be precipitated by either a single large dose or by chronic moderate doses," 14 Dr. Kramer adds.

Typical features of the speed psychosis include feelings of persecution, feelings that people are talking about you behind your back (delusions of reference), and feelings of omnipotence. * Unlike paranoid schizophrenics, however, "speed freaks" are usually aware that these feelings are drug induced; that is, they retain insight. "High-dose intravenous users of amphetamines generally accept that they will sooner or later experience paranoia. Aware of this, they are usually able to discount for it." Nevertheless, Dr. Kramer adds, "when drug use has become very intense or toward the end of a long run even a well-practiced intellectual awareness may fail and the user may respond to his delusional system." 16 Dr. Kramer cites others as believing that the drug merely brings into the open preexisting paranoid tendencies. On the basis of his own experience with a large number of high-dose users, Dr. Kramer expresses the opinion, which he agrees is not testable, that despite differences in vulnerability to the paranoid effect, "anyone given a large enough dose over a long enough time will become psychotic." 17



* The formication hallucination first noted by Freud's friend Fleischl–– that is, imaginary snakes or insects crawling on or under the skin–– also characterizes the speed psychosis. Speed freaks call them "crank bugs," Dr. Roger C. Smith reports. "It is common to see speed freaks with open running sores or scabs on their faces or arms as a result of picking or cutting out these hallucinated crank bugs." He quotes an experienced twenty-four-year-old speed freak on the subject: "It's just that when you're shooting speed constantly you start to feel like there's bugs going around under your skin and you know they're not there, but you pick at them anyway.... Once in a while you'll see a little black spot and you'll watch it for ten minutes to see if it moves. If it doesn't move it isn't alive. You can feel them on your skin. I'm always trying to pick them out of my eyebrows. 15



Dr. Smith cites numerous examples of this paranoia of the speed freak. "Each user has several entertaining stories relating to something which he did in order to protect himself from the police or secret agents whom he suspected were about to arrest him. In some instances the individual will lock himself in a room and refuse to come out, will arm himself with a knife or gun, or may, on rare occasions, actually assault a suspected informant or policeman. Tales of such activity have now become an integral part of the lore of the speed scene......... 18 The fact that the speed scene is actually heavily infiltrated with informers and narcotics officers does nothing, of course, to dispel this paranoia.

The paranoid behavior of the speed freak may at times look superficially like murderous aggression. Dr. Smith quotes a "veteran" of the speed scene on this point:

It happens quite often by mistake where somebody's all jacked up and has been for say a week, maybe two or three weeks, and somebody burns [cheats] them, they may go crash for a day or so to get their head back together somewhat, and when they get up they don't remember too much what the person looked like or who the person was, they're just out running around. I've seen people who are running around on the streets with a gun under their jacket, and they run up behind somebody and say ". . . that looks like him–– long blond hair. We got you." and then "Sorry, wrong one" and go on down the street and on to the next guy with long blond hair and stop him. 19

An even greater hazard of violence, Dr. Smith adds, accompanies the mainlining of amphetamines along with barbiturates:

In the course of our research, we have interviewed numerous individuals who regularly combine speed with barbiturates, boiled down and injected intravenously, who have exhibited highly irrational, often violent behavior. Barbiturates are commonly used to terminate the speed run and induce sleep, although they are sometimes used intermittently as the drug of choice. Even the most committed speed user agrees that individuals shooting [short-acting] barbiturates (sometimes as much as 10 Seconals per injection) are the most dangerous and irrational individuals in the drug scene. The barbiturates produce a state of disinhibition similar to alcohol intoxication, with slurred speech, staggering, and often, surliness and aggressiveness which can easily be escalated to physical violence, particularly when used in combination with speed. 20

In support of this view, Dr. Smith quotes a drug user's description of one of his friends:

He's a very nice person, and extremely generous; however, when he gets all jacked up and he is wired [stimulated with speed] and is doing reds [Seconals], then he is in trouble. Because pretty quick he's got a shot gun and everybody else has got a shot gun. I've seen him out in front of ... the freeway entrance herding the hitch-hikers away because he's paranoid of them. At four o'clock in the afternoon, with a full length shot gun, he's screaming "move on, you can't stand there, move on." That's just the way he gets. 21

Another user adds: "Barbs make you want to get out on the street and start kicking asses. Speed gives you the energy to get up and do it." 22 Contrary to a widespread impression, Dr. Smith goes on to explain, the confirmed  heroin addict is a highly skilled individual. "It is his skill as a 'hustler' which economically sustains the heroin marketplace." 23 It is the speed freak who is in fact unskilled and poorly adapted to the drug scene.

He is generally white, essentially middle-class in terms of education, family background and attitudes, and totally lacking in the kind of criminal skills which are essential to survival in a criminal environment. As critical as his lack of criminal skills is his failure to understand the values and norms traditionally associated with criminally oriented groups or subcultures. These values and norms are often antithetical to those of conventional society, but nonetheless they serve approximately the same function, namely, to offer guidance to participants and to control behavior which would be harmful to the group as a whole....

While there is a backlog of experience and tradition which the heroin addict in neighborhoods of high use can draw on, there is nothing similar in the speed culture, which emerged in its present form in late 1967, and is still undergoing rapid changes. Since there is little dependence on legitimate business for the exchange of merchandise for money, and very little integration with other illegal enterprises as one traditionally finds in heroin cultures, the "hustling" which does take place is sporadic, unskilled and predatory in nature, often directed toward fellow users and dealers, and only occasionally does it involve others outside the scene.

The speed freak is, in many ways, an outcast in a society of outcasts. He is regarded as a fool by heroin addicts, as insane and violent by those using the psychedelics or marijuana, and as a "bust" by non-drug-using hustlers. 24

Coming from a middle-class background, the speed freak attempts initially to support himself by "legitimate" means, "such as panhandling, selling underground newspapers, or working." But speed tends to incapacitate him for both legitimate employment and "hustling":

The compulsive speed user is usually incapable of hustles which demand composure, since he is highly agitated, suspicious and fearful that at any moment he may be detected, or the drug effect may leave him so paranoid that he would not take advantage of opportunities because they appear "too easy" or a "setup." Because of his compulsive verbalization, hyperactivity, emaciated physical state and bizarre demeanor, few businessmen will accept checks or credit cards from him. In our experience, many "speed freaks" who have attempted to pass bad checks have become panicked at a request for identification, convinced that his intended victim suspects him and will report him to police. In several instances, users have presented a check and immediately fled.

Because of the style of life which most compulsive users are involved in, their demeanor is overtly suspicious. While most heroin addicts can operate without fear of detection because of the drug effect, the speed user fits the popular stereotype of a "dope fiend." 25

Cut off in these ways from both licit and illicit employment, Dr. Smith continues, the speed freak survives by sponging on others and by dealing in drugs. Lacking skills and standards, he cheats. And the victims of his cheating are generally speed freaks like himself, paranoid like himself, on the verge of violence like himself. The violence that ultimately emerges–– a high level of violence, including rape, mayhem, homicide arises when the direct drug effect, the paranoia, occurs in a chaotic community where almost everybody is simultaneously engaged in sponging on everybody else, cheating everybody else–– and suspecting everybody else. This is the scene that leads even confirmed drug users to conclude that "speed is the worst."

Contrary to a popular belief, however, speed–– even in enormous doses–– very rarely kills. Dr. Smith, for example, cites one case in which a speed freak injected 15,000 milligrams of the drug–– 15 full grams–– in a twenty four-hour period without acute illness. For neophytes, it has been stated, "death has followed rapid injection of 120 mg"; but "doses of 400 to 500 milligrams have been survived." 26 "Very few deaths have been recorded in which overdose of amphetamines has been causal" 27 Dr. Kramer declares.

That even massive doses of speed rarely kill is surely a tribute to the inherent toughness of the human body. That the human mind can ultimately recover even from prolonged amphetamine paranoia is an equal tribute to its toughness–– yet that appears to be the case.

"What has been most striking in our experience," Dr. Kramer declares–– and Dr. Smith agrees–– "has been the slow but rather complete recovery of users who, according to their own descriptions and that of others, had become rather thoroughly disorganized and paranoid prior to their detention." 28 The more florid symptoms fade within a few days or weeks. "Some confusion, some memory loss, and some delusional ideas may remain for perhaps six to twelve months. After that time, though there may be some residual symptoms, they are slight, and not disabling, and are noticed primarily by the (now abstinent) user himself. Most commonly, ex-users report slightly greater difficulty in remembering." 29

Following full or almost full recovery, curiously enough, ex-users also report a personality change that they deem favorable. Many of them, it will be recalled, were depressed, withdrawn, silent, and lacking in self esteem before turning to speed. "As a group they describe being more open and talkative than they had been prior to their use of amphetamines. They like the result and declare with certainty that it is due to their experience with amphetamines." 30

"Anyone concerned with the welfare of amphetamine users," Dr. Kramer goes on to stress, "and the users themselves, should recognize that most, if not all, can recover from even the most profound intellectual disorganization and psychosis given six months or a year of abstinence." 31 This message, in addition to being true, is of considerably more public health significance than the false popular slogan, "Speed kills."

The problem is how to achieve prolonged abstinence. Many speed users, like most of the heroin users, Dr. Smith notes, have tried repeatedly to stop by a conscious act of will. Few succeed. Their withdrawal misery is too great. "Many users who attempt abstinence find it difficult because of the fatigue which results, extreme at first, gradually diminishing but persistent, perhaps for months, " 32 Dr. Kramer adds.

Abstinence is often forced on a speed freak by a prison sentence, or by incarceration under a so-called civil commitment program, or by commitment to a mental hospital.

"No data has yet been collected to indicate the long-term value of such enforced abstinence," Dr. Kramer concedes; but on the basis of his own experience on the staff of the California Rehabilitation Center he is highly skeptical. "Certainly, many who have been incarcerated have returned to their drug use upon release." 33 Thus the revolving-door pattern so familiar to heroin addicts may be the future of speed freaks as well. A person genuinely concerned for the welfare of speed freaks, Dr. Kramer sadly notes, is "in a bind. Users do not readily volunteer for care, but commitment programs offer little besides enforced abstinence. Should the user be permitted to live in the limbo of his drug or forced into the limbo of an institution? Can voluntary programs be devised which are sufficiently useful and attractive that users will seek them out and persist in their program? Can commitment programs be devised which do not resemble slightly benign prisons? Or, do we just let the user seek heaven or hell on his own terms while the community offers help only on its own terms ?" 34 Dr. Kramer poses these questions; neither he nor Dr. Roger C. Smith nor we have any glib answers to offer. Drug-scene participants themselves, however, may currently be finding answers (see Chapter 42).

The Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs
by Edward M. Brecher and the Editors of Consumer Reports Magazine, 1972



Chapter 38. How speed was popularized

The damage done by heroin, as demonstrated in Part I, is largely traceable to antinarcotics laws and policies and to the heroin black market that has grown up under the shelter of those laws and policies. The damage done by LSD, as we shall also see, is in large part a function of laws and attitudes. This is certainly  not true of the speed phenomenon. Unlike the heroin and the LSD cases, it is large intravenous doses of the drug itself that have devastating effects in the case of speed. But laws and policies were certainly responsible in considerable part for  popularizing speed.

One instance of this, the antispeed campaign launched by the United States Food and Drug Administration in 1962 and 1963, has already been cited. It was the publicity accompanying this campaign that alerted a whole generation of young people to the perils (and pleasures) of speed. As in other cases described earlier and to be described in subsequent chapters, the peril became the lure.

A somewhat different process helped to popularize speed following San Francisco's 1967 "Summer of Love." That summer many thousands of adolescents took off for the Haight-Ashbury district, the center of the "hippie movement," where marijuana and LSD were freely available. This migration, and others like it, will be discussed at length in Part IX. There was relatively little speed, and little violence, that first summer. * The sheer size of the immigration, however, overwhelmed the LSD–– using "flower people" who had established the Haight-Ashbury subculture. In increasing numbers, they moved into the hills. Their places were taken by young people looking, not for love and mind-expansion, but for drug "kicks." Marijuana and LSD faded into the background; speed took over. New times, new customs, new participants, new needs, new wants–– and a new drug to meet those needs and wants.



* By September 1967, however, one-third of 413 residents of the Haight-Ashbury area had injected amphetamines intravenously at least once. 1



The conversion to speed was facilitated, moreover, by the antimarijuana and anti-LSD campaigns being waged at the time. The "LSD chromosome scare," to be discussed in Part VII, was a central feature of this campaign. Many young people heeded the warnings with which the newspapers, magazines, and radio and TV programs were flooded, and gave up LSD. In its place they turned to speed. The change was for the worse.

Users of marijuana and LSD recognized and publicized the overwhelming hazards of speed in an unsuccessful attempt to turn the tide. Thus the poet Allen Ginsberg, the author of "Howl," remarked in an interview in the Los Angeles  Free Press, an underground newspaper: "Let's issue a general declaration to all the underground community,  contra speedamos ex cathedra. Speed is antisocial, paranoid making, it's a drag, bad for your body, bad for your mind, generally speaking, in the long run uncreative and it's a plague in the whole dope: industry. All the nice gentle dope fiends are getting screwed up by the real horror monster Frankenstein speed freaks who are going around stealing and bad mouthing everybody." 2 This quote from Ginsberg was widely publicized throughout the underground press. Timothy Leary, the Beatles, and the Mothers of Invention also warned against speed. 3 The overground press, however, continued to rail against LSD–– and marijuana.

Police and narcotics officials, too, must bear some of the responsibility. Their main concern at the time was certainly marijuana and LSD, the traditional "hippie" drugs. While they searched for caches of those drugs, speed took over. A seventeen-year-old girl whose friends had used speed remarked: "Some police officers we interviewed said pot was deadly and addictive! When kids try it and see it's all a lie they figure the stuff about speed is false, too." 4

Two psychiatrists, Drs. James R. Allen and Louis Jolyon West, and a medical student, Joshua Kaufman, after a study of adolescents who ran away to the Haight-Ashbury in the summer of 1967, made the same point in more general terms: "The horrible reactions to marijuana predicted by various authorities were virtually never seen. The runaways generally took this to mean that all the widely advertised dangers of drugs were establishment lies. This further alienated them from the social structure and made them more willing to experiment with all sorts of chemicals." 5

Even the warning, "Speed kills," may have played its subtle role in popularizing speed. The 1970  Interim Report of Canada's Commission of Inquiry into the Non-Medical Use of Drugs (popularly known as the Le Dain Commission) comments on this possibility:

Some "speed" users who inject almost suicidal doses of methamphetamine into their veins without any regard for their safety and health, may actually be trying to test the truth of the youth slogan "Speed Kills". The role of the doomed person who is at once a martyr sacrificing himself, a hero braving the confrontation with certain destruction and a gambler playing dice with death, is a role which seems to have a strong seductive pull for some young people who are morbidly hungry for compassion, admiration and excitement. For these individuals the slogan "Speed Kills", may, paradoxically, carry more attractive than deterrent power–– and thus may not serve the purpose for which it is being promoted. 6

Sound public policy, the speed phenomenon suggests, would dictate telling young people the truth. They should be informed, for example, that speed, though it very rarely kills, is far more damaging than marijuana. But most drug propaganda campaigns try to keep this a secret for it may also reveal to young people that marijuana is far less damaging than speed.

We shall return to this theme–– the many ways in which laws, policies, and propaganda campaigns serve to encourage a shift from less dangerous to more dangerous drugs–– in subsequent chapters of this Report.

The Meth-Mouth Myth
Our latest moral panic.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Tuesday, Aug. 9, 2005, at 3:34 PM PT



The mouth that roared

Moral panics rip through cultures, observed sociologist Stanley Cohen in 1972, whenever "experts" and the "right-thinking" folks in the press, government, and the clergy exaggerate the danger a group or thing poses to society.

Immigrants have been the subject of moral panics, as have alcohol, jazz, comic books, sex, street gangs, rock, video games, religious cults, white slavery, dance, and homosexuals. But in the United States, moral panics are most reliably directed at illicit drug users. No exaggeration or vilification directed their way is too outrageous for consideration.

For the last year, a moral panic about methamphetamine and its users has been gathering force, and last week it peaked as Slate's corporate sibling, Newsweek magazine, joined the crusade with a cover story. Calling methamphetamine "America's Most Dangerous Drug," the magazine also portrayed its use as "epidemic." In typical moral-panic fashion, Newsweek offered no data to anoint meth as the deadliest of drugs, nor did it prove its assertion that meth use is spreading like a prairie fire. Instead, the magazine relied almost exclusively on anecdotes from law enforcement officials, anti-drug politicians, and users (current and reformed) to stir up emotions against meth and meth-heads.

Continued at: www.slate.com/id/2124160/

Quoted: Looking at the current Meth problem brings me back to the late '70s in Philadelphia. Me and my "friends" did, sold, and bought enough of the shit to know. I can tell you first hand the crap is wrong. Stay Cranked up for 3 days straight and you start to see shadows moving. Way back then I worked with this girl who did the shit for so long her teeth were worn down from grinding them, and she looked way older then she really was. I got my shit together, haven't touched it in 25 years, and don't miss it at all. And I don't miss the losers I used to hand out with either. The other day at work (Books a Million) I made myself a really good drink. 5 shots of Espresso on ice, hey, that's the only speed I do. I was zooming till like 8 in the morning. If I had stuck with the old regiment I would probably be dead by now. Or at the least be in Prison. I do try to keep it easy with the Espresso, but a few shots here and there can't be that bad a thing. William J. Paradise TSGT USAF Retired

Good job. We're proud of you for leaving that shit alone.

Let's not only legalize all drugs, let's make em free.

Darwin will do the rest.

Meth Madness at Newsweek
This is your magazine on drugs.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Wednesday, Aug. 3, 2005, at 4:19 PM PT



Newsweek's inside story

The leading indicator that a national trend has peaked and has begun its downward trajectory is often its appearance on the cover of one of the newsweeklies. Newsweek's current scaremongering cover story, "The Meth Epidemic: Inside America's New Drug Crisis," is a textbook illustration of the phenomenon.

From its shrieking inside headline, "America's Most Dangerous Drug," to the gross-out photo gallery (a close-up of "meth-mouth," a prematurely aged meth casualty, and a burned survivor of a meth-lab explosion) the Newsweek package plays to readers' emotions. But for all Newsweek's hysteria, it fails to deliver. For instance, if meth is America's most dangerous drug, how many people has it killed? Newsweek doesn't bother to explore the topic, perhaps because it's so hard to pin down. In 2000, Oahu recorded 35 deaths, Phoenix 105, and Los Angeles 155. Meanwhile, New York City recorded only three that year, while Long Island claimed 38. According to Fred Leavitt's 1982 book, Drugs & Behavior, about one usage in 2 million ends in a fatality. If meth is really the most dangerous drug, you'd think the magazine would have provided some sort of body count.

In one attempt to measure the meth "crisis," Newsweek cites federal estimates to report that about 12 million Americans have tried methamphetamine and 1.5 million are regular users. (Compare those figures with the government's rough estimate of 750,000 to 1 million heroin addicts and 2.7 million chronic users of cocaine.) But the magazine doesn't establish whether those numbers are up or down! How can they claim an epidemic unless they've got the numbers?

continued at: www.slate.com/id/2123838/

spun monkeys,what a pack of losers cliff'em all

On the good side meth addicts will die young. Maybe we should make it easier for them to get the shit instead of harder.

Ammoman has tracer ammo for sale...Or how to get rid of the meth lab in your neighborhood and those running it post haste.

Quoted: On the good side meth addicts will die young.

I guess you didn't read the information above. Meth isn't good for you, but it doesn't kill all that many people, either.  

Tracers! Meth lab! BOOM!

Ben

there have been no arrests made and reports show no increase in meth use

Same around here.  The papers claim it is a big problem, but they haven't reported a single arrest or single problem caused by meth.  There's just a lot of hype.

You found a number of new meth labs, but no one was arrested

Here is what is often really happening.  A relative of mine was quoted in the paper about a "meth lab" bust he was involved with.  I later asked him about it, and he said the guy had two large propane tanks and some iodine in his barn, so they called it a meth lab.  There was no meth.  There wasn't even all of the materials to make it.  They were there because the owner of the house had threatened a guy that was there to repo his car.  The cops exaggerated some and the paper exaggerated more so a couple of propane tanks turn into a meth lab.  Probably 90% of the "meth lab" busts are not.z

I recall reading something recently (from a responsible source, natch) that bulk shipments of meth-precursor medicines to Mexico have increasesd by a huge amount lately.    

Quoted: Same around here.  The papers claim it is a big problem, but they haven't reported a single arrest or single problem caused by meth.  There's just a lot of hype.

Nationwide, stats show that there are occasional regional fluctuations but that the rate of use has been pretty stable overall for decades. Alcohol wins all the prizes for causing problems over meth and all the illegal drugs combined by a margin of about 10 to 1 -- and it has been that way for about the last century.

Slate had an article (can't find it right now) that listed newspaper headlines over the last thirty years or so. It seems there was a "new" drug menace every year -- invariably from drugs that had already been around for decades and when there was no real evidence of any change in rates of use.  They also mentioned that quite a few "meth labs" are hardly meth labs at all.

Hmmmmm, I have rock salt in my pantry right now for making ice cream, and I must have some book matches laying around somewhere. Must be the beginnings of a meth lab, for sure.

Let's see. Newspapers figured out long ago that headlines like "New Drug Menace" sell newspapers, even when there is no more truth to them than "I Had An Alien Baby".  Then the police figured out that they can ask for huge increases in their budget and lots of new toys to combat the "New Drug Menace".

Is it hard to figure out why this happens? Two self-serving groups making up hysteria for their own financial interests.

That shit is everywhere. It is all over my hometown and there are only 400 people here. We have had to call LEOs a few times because of bastards trying to steal chemicals from our place(we are farmers). I do not even try to deal with these people, I let the cops do it because I have heard stories of people high on this stuff getting shot several times and not even slowing down.

They busted a meth lab a few miles down the road last year and they had to call in a special task force to clean it up. They were in the chemical suits and everything. Why anyone would put that shit in their body is beyond me.


This drug is turning America into white trash.

I understand that oregon has or wants to ban over the counter sales of antihistamines or other cold medication that contain ephedrine due to its use in making meth. So because of the meth head, or our own ever vigilant local, state, and federal governments, its gonna cost joe citizen more time and more money just to get a script for sudafed?????WTF!!!!

This site  www.leaa.org/meth3.html pretty much tells the story of why these hypes happen.

Drawing on this background, LEAA has developed close working relationships with various state Attorneys General. Many of these AG’s have become very concerned about the overwhelming ‘Meth’ problems facing state and local and law enforcement. Many AG’s feel that Meth is one of the worse threats facing their communities. In short, they are alarmed; they feel this may be one of the biggest threats/challenges they face.

Note that nowhere in the public records is there any evidence that there is any change in the meth threat since about 1960.

They continue:

Meth, because it is so highly addictive, is a very real, imminent threat to those who try it. Because of its super addictive nature, many who try it just once become hooked. Some experts believe that just one use can change how the brain operates -- can change the chemicals the brain produces. Meth literally destroys those who use it. Countless street crimes are caused by addicts seeking to make a quick score. America needs a more comprehensive and aggressive approach to address this growing threat. Those who are hooked on the drug are a threat. They are a threat to their next victims and they are a threat to officers on the street (many of those involved in officer attacks/assaults are on drugs when they fight). Meth labs are a threat to those in and around the production of the drug in clandestine labs scattered through communities across America (increasingly including children, neighbors and first responders). The criminal drug trade in general -- and Methamphetamine in particular -- are a very profitable criminal activity and it is attracting the interest, backing and active support of organized crime and international drug cartels.

Never mind that the US DOJ's own research shows that alcohol accounts for about half of all violent crime, and that most of the violent crime related to illegal drugs is due to gangland disputes over money -- same thing that happened with the criminal gangs during alcohol prohibition.

So what, you ask, is the grand solution to this problem????

In the face of these threats certain well-meaning politicians are proposing a series of bills to help address the problem. While all serious efforts to address this threat are appreciated, LEAA feels that efforts to eradicate this threat should, at a minimum, include: * Increased funding and support for local/state law enforcement for training, manpower and resources to detect, investigate, and neutralize local Meth sellers, buyers and manufacturers/labs.

The solution is a bigger gravy train for law enforcement. Never mind the fact that there is no evidence meth is the biggest threat to our society. Never mind that rates of use have been stable for decades. Never mind that alcohol causes ten times the problem, because no one would buy this nonsense about alcohol.

The strategy is to convince us that tigers are loose in the community and we ought to pay more taxes for tiger protection. You wouldn't want your kid eaten by a tiger, would you? Look what a good job we did of keeping your older kids from being eaten by tigers.

Quoted: This drug is turning America into white trash.

Do you have any real evidence that rates of use overall are any different than they have been for about the last forty years?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! ME----YOU Thanks. (took it out) I think it was a joke, it posts your IP info and a DEA logo.  Lighten up Francis.

Yeah,  great thing to joke about.

Quoted: That shit is everywhere. It is all over my hometown and there are only 400 people here. We have had to call LEOs a few times because of bastards trying to steal chemicals from our place(we are farmers). I do not even try to deal with these people, I let the cops do it because I have heard stories of people high on this stuff getting shot several times and not even slowing down.

Keep shooting until it stops twitching.

Quoted: Let's see. Newspapers figured out long ago that headlines like "New Drug Menace" sell newspapers, even when there is no more truth to them than "I Had An Alien Baby".  Then the police figured out that they can ask for huge increases in their budget and lots of new toys to combat the "New Drug Menace". Is it hard to figure out why this happens? Two self-serving groups making up hysteria for their own financial interests.

And, like I said earlier, factor in Congress and their "Meth Taxes".  There's always been big money in drugs, it just doesn't all go to the people you might think it does.

Take a quarter of the money spent on fighting drugs and put it toward accessible treatment facilities and education and in a few years we wouldn't have a "drug problem".  The results would be as good as they have been with tobacco.

Of course there's a lot of people that would see the money and their livelihoods disappear so they really don't have any interest in stopping illegal use or sales of drugs.  

Like a dog chasing it's own tail.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Check out this link about how bad the meth problem is!! ME----YOU Thanks. (took it out) I think it was a joke, it posts your IP info and a DEA logo.  Lighten up Francis.

AZ_newguy I am glad someone on this board has a decent IQ. Looks like when god was handing out IQ's C-4 and 2A373 said no thanks I don't any! Gees!!

Quoted: Quoted: Let's see. Newspapers figured out long ago that headlines like "New Drug Menace" sell newspapers, even when there is no more truth to them than "I Had An Alien Baby".  Then the police figured out that they can ask for huge increases in their budget and lots of new toys to combat the "New Drug Menace". Is it hard to figure out why this happens? Two self-serving groups making up hysteria for their own financial interests. And, like I said earlier, factor in Congress and their "Meth Taxes".  There's always been big money in drugs, it just doesn't all go to the people you might think it does. Take a quarter of the money spent on fighting drugs and put it toward accessible treatment facilities and education and in a few years we wouldn't have a "drug problem".  The results would be as good as they have been with tobacco. Of course there's a lot of people that would see the money and their livelihoods disappear so they really don't have any interest in stopping illegal use or sales of drugs.   Like a dog chasing it's own tail.

The only thing I find to disagree with in that statement is that it wouldn't take one quarter of the money to make a huge difference. According to the Rand Corporation, we could achieve equal or better results if we put about ten percent of that money toward treatment and education.